Yes but Hamas is a terrorist group. If/when Hamas is destroyed Palestine will exist and peace will have a chance.
If Hamas agrees to a ceasefire, they are no longer an active terrorist group. During that period, if Palestine is created, Hamas as a terrorist group representing the Palestinian people would cease to exist. They would be outcasts.
Your arguments make no sense. Hamas doesn't need to be 'destroyed' for peace to exist. Israel needs to work towards peace for peace to exist. Until that time, Israel is a bigger obstacle for peace than even Hamas.
the precursor to this in the article was the lead-in:
so again the isreal attack was a response an attack on them first.
how is this their fault?
Haven't you learned yet? ALWAYS BLAME THE JEW Learning this simple rule will help you understand the point of few of many of our learned liberal colleagues.
Moogs has it right. Israel attacks whenever there is any movement forward for peace. This is troubling and a threat to the region, and thus the world.
bullshit. Plain and simple.
Moogs sees everything in the region through a very simple set of conditions. He blames everything on, oh what did he call it, "typical Jewish arrogance". I think I have heard Moogs rantings elsewhere. Congrats on buying into his crap.
Congrats on being a blind moron. I started the thread because I believe Israel, while led by Sharon, is a threat to peace in the Mid-East and thus the world. Sharon's actions today, well, the Israeli military, back up my sentiments.
Haven't you learned yet? ALWAYS BLAME THE JEW Learning this simple rule will help you understand the point of few of many of our learned liberal colleagues.
i thought the debate had risen above that sort of nonsense, but thanks for dragging it back down.
If Hamas agrees to a ceasefire, they are no longer an active terrorist group. During that period, if Palestine is created, Hamas as a terrorist group representing the Palestinian people would cease to exist. They would be outcasts.
Your arguments make no sense. Hamas doesn't need to be 'destroyed' for peace to exist. Israel needs to work towards peace for peace to exist. Until that time, Israel is a bigger obstacle for peace than even Hamas.
Let's see. Israel wants to work with the Road Map and move toward two states. At least they say that. Hamas wants to drive all Jews out of the region and create a muslim theocracy. Or at least they say that.
Israel wants to work with the Road Map and move toward two states.
Did Israel's actions today (yesterday) support this hypothesis you claim? No. Israel had an opportunity to support the road map towards two states and they took an opportunity to stop it.
Hamas, amazingly enough, was willing to work with the road map and agree to a three month cease fire. Does this cease fire support your hypothesis about the desire to drive all Jews into the sea? No.
So, you're wrong on both points. Sorry. Take your ball and go home.
If Hamas agrees to a ceasefire, they are no longer an active terrorist group. During that period, if Palestine is created, Hamas as a terrorist group representing the Palestinian people would cease to exist. They would be outcasts.
Really? So if Palestine is created, Hamas would cease to exists? Why? Why would extremist groups, seeking the destruction of Israel and not the formation of a Palestinian state cease to exist. That makes no sense at all. Even the PLO was never foolish enough to claim that the creation of a Palestian state was their primary goal. Why would an even more extremist group renounce the goal of the destruction of the jewish state and the creation of another radical islamic state?
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
Your arguments make no sense. Hamas doesn't need to be 'destroyed' for peace to exist. Israel needs to work towards peace for peace to exist. Until that time, Israel is a bigger obstacle for peace than even Hamas.
Um yeah, as defined as a group seeking to establish a strict islamic state and the complete and utter destruction of the "Jewish infestation" in palestine, they need to be be destroyed. Whether this means they dismantle themselves, the PA dismantles their infrastructure, or Israel hunts them down, they, as an organization needs to cease to exist, to be destroyed. This doesn't have to mean the members are destroyed or killed, but that Hamas, as an organization needs to be destroyed.
Let's see. Israel wants to work with the Road Map and move toward two states. At least they say that. Hamas wants to drive all Jews out of the region and create a muslim theocracy. Or at least they say that.
So ...... blame Israel?
the day after israel said they wanted to pursue the roadmap, they sent helicopter gunships into the gaza strip. (or was it the west bank?) infuriating president bush to no end. hamas is at least up front about it. sharon is not.
the differences between likud and hamas is likud has a portfolio. each is pretty much committed to each others destruction.
So, one is committed to wiping out a terror organization and has a portfolio. The other is committed to wiping out all jews in palestine, man woman and child. You are right, they are the same. I should have seen it sooner.
Arafat was "replaced"? That terrorist still commands many forces and has his terror wing of his government active.
arafat's playhouse has been torn down, he hasn't commanded anything in years, precisely why he backed out of the accords. pay no attention to the man behind the curtain indeed.
I guess we could get into battling news links but I remember Hamas being the first to strike this time around. Then there's Hamas saying over and over and over and .... over and over that they would not stop. So ... blame the Jews
Hamas is the major obstacle to peace. They are terrorist that refuse to stop. They refuse to negotiate with anyone and can't be reasoned with. Their only position is no more Israel. That simple.
BUT! Blame the Jews! Oooopps I mean Israeli. God I keep forgeting that.
arafat's playhouse has been torn down, he hasn't commanded anything in years, precisely why he backed out of the accords. pay no attention to the man behind the curtain indeed.
At a very minimum, he still funds and supports terrorist organisations. He provides haven and shelter for many groups. Fatah still answers to him.
He may not be the man in charge any more, but he is still responsible and much of the crap happening there. As much as Sharon is.
Comments
Originally posted by Scott
Yes but Hamas is a terrorist group. If/when Hamas is destroyed Palestine will exist and peace will have a chance.
If Hamas agrees to a ceasefire, they are no longer an active terrorist group. During that period, if Palestine is created, Hamas as a terrorist group representing the Palestinian people would cease to exist. They would be outcasts.
Your arguments make no sense. Hamas doesn't need to be 'destroyed' for peace to exist. Israel needs to work towards peace for peace to exist. Until that time, Israel is a bigger obstacle for peace than even Hamas.
Originally posted by superkarate monkeydeathcar
i don't know, but that's fascinating, let's all ponder that.
Ummmm...pondered. Nope. Doesn't resonate.
Originally posted by alcimedes
here's what i don't get.
(emphasis mine)
the precursor to this in the article was the lead-in:
so again the isreal attack was a response an attack on them first.
how is this their fault?
Haven't you learned yet? ALWAYS BLAME THE JEW Learning this simple rule will help you understand the point of few of many of our learned liberal colleagues.
Originally posted by bunge
Moogs has it right. Israel attacks whenever there is any movement forward for peace. This is troubling and a threat to the region, and thus the world.
bullshit. Plain and simple.
Moogs sees everything in the region through a very simple set of conditions. He blames everything on, oh what did he call it, "typical Jewish arrogance". I think I have heard Moogs rantings elsewhere. Congrats on buying into his crap.
Originally posted by Tulkas
Congrats on buying into his crap.
Congrats on being a blind moron. I started the thread because I believe Israel, while led by Sharon, is a threat to peace in the Mid-East and thus the world. Sharon's actions today, well, the Israeli military, back up my sentiments.
Originally posted by Tulkas
Haven't you learned yet? ALWAYS BLAME THE JEW Learning this simple rule will help you understand the point of few of many of our learned liberal colleagues.
i thought the debate had risen above that sort of nonsense, but thanks for dragging it back down.
Originally posted by bunge
If Hamas agrees to a ceasefire, they are no longer an active terrorist group. During that period, if Palestine is created, Hamas as a terrorist group representing the Palestinian people would cease to exist. They would be outcasts.
Your arguments make no sense. Hamas doesn't need to be 'destroyed' for peace to exist. Israel needs to work towards peace for peace to exist. Until that time, Israel is a bigger obstacle for peace than even Hamas.
Let's see. Israel wants to work with the Road Map and move toward two states. At least they say that. Hamas wants to drive all Jews out of the region and create a muslim theocracy. Or at least they say that.
So ...
Originally posted by Tulkas
Haven't you learned yet? ALWAYS BLAME THE JEW
Arafat was 'replaced' and he isn't a Jew. At least I don't think he's a Jew. I could be wrong on that point.
Originally posted by Scott
Israel wants to work with the Road Map and move toward two states.
Did Israel's actions today (yesterday) support this hypothesis you claim? No. Israel had an opportunity to support the road map towards two states and they took an opportunity to stop it.
Hamas, amazingly enough, was willing to work with the road map and agree to a three month cease fire. Does this cease fire support your hypothesis about the desire to drive all Jews into the sea? No.
So, you're wrong on both points. Sorry. Take your ball and go home.
Originally posted by bunge
If Hamas agrees to a ceasefire, they are no longer an active terrorist group. During that period, if Palestine is created, Hamas as a terrorist group representing the Palestinian people would cease to exist. They would be outcasts.
Really? So if Palestine is created, Hamas would cease to exists? Why? Why would extremist groups, seeking the destruction of Israel and not the formation of a Palestinian state cease to exist. That makes no sense at all. Even the PLO was never foolish enough to claim that the creation of a Palestian state was their primary goal. Why would an even more extremist group renounce the goal of the destruction of the jewish state and the creation of another radical islamic state?
Originally posted by bunge
Your arguments make no sense. Hamas doesn't need to be 'destroyed' for peace to exist. Israel needs to work towards peace for peace to exist. Until that time, Israel is a bigger obstacle for peace than even Hamas.
Um yeah, as defined as a group seeking to establish a strict islamic state and the complete and utter destruction of the "Jewish infestation" in palestine, they need to be be destroyed. Whether this means they dismantle themselves, the PA dismantles their infrastructure, or Israel hunts them down, they, as an organization needs to cease to exist, to be destroyed. This doesn't have to mean the members are destroyed or killed, but that Hamas, as an organization needs to be destroyed.
Originally posted by Scott
Let's see. Israel wants to work with the Road Map and move toward two states. At least they say that. Hamas wants to drive all Jews out of the region and create a muslim theocracy. Or at least they say that.
So ...
the day after israel said they wanted to pursue the roadmap, they sent helicopter gunships into the gaza strip. (or was it the west bank?) infuriating president bush to no end. hamas is at least up front about it. sharon is not.
Originally posted by superkarate monkeydeathcar
well yes and no, but again, good argument!
the differences between likud and hamas is likud has a portfolio. each is pretty much committed to each others destruction.
So, one is committed to wiping out a terror organization and has a portfolio. The other is committed to wiping out all jews in palestine, man woman and child. You are right, they are the same. I should have seen it sooner.
Originally posted by Tulkas
Really? So if Palestine is created, Hamas would cease to exists?
You didn't read what I wrote.
Originally posted by Scott
Arafat was "replaced"? That terrorist still commands many forces and has his terror wing of his government active.
arafat's playhouse has been torn down, he hasn't commanded anything in years, precisely why he backed out of the accords. pay no attention to the man behind the curtain indeed.
Hamas is the major obstacle to peace. They are terrorist that refuse to stop. They refuse to negotiate with anyone and can't be reasoned with. Their only position is no more Israel. That simple.
BUT! Blame the Jews! Oooopps I mean Israeli. God I keep forgeting that.
Originally posted by Tulkas
Really? So if Palestine is created, Hamas would cease to exists? Why? .
there is plenty of historical data of terrorist groups being legitimized by statehood.
Originally posted by superkarate monkeydeathcar
arafat's playhouse has been torn down, he hasn't commanded anything in years, precisely why he backed out of the accords. pay no attention to the man behind the curtain indeed.
At a very minimum, he still funds and supports terrorist organisations. He provides haven and shelter for many groups. Fatah still answers to him.
He may not be the man in charge any more, but he is still responsible and much of the crap happening there. As much as Sharon is.
The emerging deal was shrouded in some confusion, with Hamas leaders in the Palestinian areas strenuously denying it has been finalized.
so was there a truce or not? Hamas was saying no.