Been reading up on the POWER4+ (130nm version of the POWER4) that gets to 1.45GHz and is used in IBM's 650 server. That server can take up to 8 processors, 2 processors to a card. Interesting to note is that the RAM is on the daughtercard connected via 208 pin DIMM slots, populated 4 at a time, so it looks like a NUMA architecture. The cards connect via the GX bus which is described as a derivative of the 6XX bus used on the PPC 620 and 630 (aka the POWER3). Apparently the G stands for Gigaprocessor (their words not mine).
From studying the diagram of the processor card, the memory controller is very close to the processors. The GX bus runs at 3:1 ratio of core processor speed (for a 1.45GHz machine that's 483MHz) and is 32bit (4byte) read and 32bit write. Thats good for 3.87GBps. Hmm, sounds awefully familiar... if it was scaled to 900MHz it would reach 7.2GBps...hmm
There is a faster fabric bus that runs at 2:1 ratio and is 64bit read/write and it connects to other processor modules while GX bus connects to the IO bus.
The module for the 1.45GHz model is different to the module with 1.2GHz POWER4+'s. For expample the memory controller and L3 cache are on seperate chips on the 1.45GHz card. The L3 on that one is 32MB, while on the 1.2GHz card the L3 cache (8MB) and memory controller are one chip! The RAM is DDR 200MHz (PC1600) and there are SMI chips that combine the slots into 256bit data paths to the memory controller a main reason, I suspect, that the RAM slots are on the same card as the processors.
There are similarities between GX bus and the bus described for the 970.
<strong>Been reading up on the POWER4+ (130nm version of the POWER4) that gets to 1.45GHz and is used in IBM's 650 server. That server can take up to 8 processors, 2 processors to a card. Interesting to note is that the RAM is on the daughtercard connected via 208 pin DIMM slots, populated 4 at a time, so it looks like a NUMA architecture. The cards connect via the GX bus which is described as a derivative of the 6XX bus used on the PPC 620 and 630 (aka the POWER3). Apparently the G stands for Gigaprocessor (their words not mine).
From studying the diagram of the processor card, the memory controller is very close to the processors. The GX bus runs at 3:1 ratio of core processor speed (for a 1.45GHz machine that's 483MHz) and is 32bit (4byte) read and 32bit write. Thats good for 3.87GBps. Hmm, sounds awefully familiar... if it was scaled to 900MHz it would reach 7.2GBps...hmm
There is a faster fabric bus that runs at 2:1 ratio and is 64bit read/write and it connects to other processor modules while GX bus connects to the IO bus.
The module for the 1.45GHz model is different to the module with 1.2GHz POWER4+'s. For expample the memory controller and L3 cache are on seperate chips on the 1.45GHz card. The L3 on that one is 32MB, while on the 1.2GHz card the L3 cache (8MB) and memory controller are one chip! The RAM is DDR 200MHz (PC1600) and there are SMI chips that combine the slots into 256bit data paths to the memory controller a main reason, I suspect, that the RAM slots are on the same card as the processors.
There are similarities between GX bus and the bus described for the 970.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Motorola uses the prefixes "MPC" and "XPC" (among others) to denote a PPC's qualification status. MPC means the chip is fully qualified while XPC means that it is not. There was a pic on the web of the 1.25 taken after someone removed the heatsink. The prefix on the chip was XPC. IMO, this supports Amorph's statement that the current 1.25's are "freak" chips. I just wonder how many more Apple has stockpiled- they can't continue to sell them for the next 6 months with a finite quantity and they won't be able to move them down the product ladder for the same reason.
Maybe the 970 will be here by March and we will never see the '57s.</strong><hr></blockquote>
My 400MHz G4 says "XPC7400".
ALL Apple chips are tested against a different standard of cooling than other G4s.
"MPC" doesn't happen until years after a chip's release.
There will be a Power Mac update very soon, and it will be the last Power Mac G4.
There will be a Power Mac update very soon, and it will be the last Power Mac G4.
Barto</strong><hr></blockquote>
oooh oooh... bet it has bigger fins and more chrome... as the last G4, it needs a Moto hood ornament for people to rip off in frustration when the 970 comes out
(yes i realize that the MDD SpeedHole case probably won't change and they'll reserve the true design shift to accompany the paradigm shifts to IBM (Black Macs anyone? NeXT's sure looked good)
maybe Apple will cut a deal with Ford/Jaguar to resell all the old G4s for embedded use in exchange for use of the Jaguar name, hood ornament, and British Racing Green paint rights.
updates to FW2, BlueTooth, Airport Extreme, etc don't seem to require a case change... all mobo level or daughtercard, IIRC
but if it's truly the bye bye Moto Mac, it ought to have something special, shouldn't it?
wire hubcaps for better cooling?
let's hear or see some mockups <think chrome and fins>
There is no way the next PowerMac should be black. PC makes finally realized that all their PCs look the same (beige), so they all switched to black. They still look the same . Here is an article called "<a href="http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,427047,00.asp"; target="_blank">Black is the New Beige</a>. Sorry for being somewhat OT.
I think the lack of iMac and Powermac updates are probably a good sign. The clue is that the iMac is over a year old without a speed bump. Why has Apple not bumped it at all?
The answer must be that they have something up their sleave and it is just a round the corner (They must have long arms). They have held off bumpig the speed of the imac when they could easily have bumped it to 1ghz before Christmas.
This must indicate that the next models of both iMacs and PM will include FW800 and bluetooth and that either...
The PM will get the 970, seems unlikely yet or that they will get the MPC7457 very soon, more likely. That would then allow the iMac to start shipping at up to 1.25ghz and give a great boost to it's sales.
We all know that Apple is very confident that they have some exciting products for this year, so I guess we need a little patience. The seems to be a body of opinion which is being largly ignored that new machines are arriving in March. I guess that as time rolls on and given the information above regarding MOTO I think we will just have to wait another 6 weeks.
Well the 7457 is supposed to be smaller and cheaper because of the die shrink, maybe the iMac and Powermacs will get the new processor at the same time. If the stats on the 57 are good, that may explain why Apple wants to delay the new desktops so they can get these processors in them. In this case, delays seem to be a good sign.
<strong>Well the 7457 is supposed to be smaller and cheaper because of the die shrink, maybe the iMac and Powermacs will get the new processor at the same time. If the stats on the 57 are good, that may explain why Apple wants to delay the new desktops so they can get these processors in them. In this case, delays seem to be a good sign.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Agreed.
I also think the "Windtunnel" tag for current machines is a serious impediment to sales of current PM's. If the 7457 is cooler perhaps the "Windtunnel" will be behind them.
I also think the "Windtunnel" tag for current machines is a serious impediment to sales of current PM's. If the 7457 is cooler perhaps the "Windtunnel" will be behind them.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If the 57 is the new G4 that I was told about with a new mobo design, then no, it won't be cooler. The G4 that is suppose to come out was due last year but wasn't released because of over heating issues. Even the vents on the MDD weren't enough to cool it. So we'll see what they release and how hot it runs.
If the 57 is the new G4 that I was told about with a new mobo design, then no, it won't be cooler. The G4 that is suppose to come out was due last year but wasn't released because of over heating issues. Even the vents on the MDD weren't enough to cool it. So we'll see what they release and how hot it runs.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well I hope that it's not. I hope that it will be a die shrunk G4 with cooler operating temperatures.
When my IBM 970 powered PowerMac and 23" cinema display arrives I will leave these boards and get a life.</strong><hr></blockquote>
We all know better than that; it's only half true.
When you get that rig set up, you may well leave the boards, yes, but you deffinately won't be getting a life, because, well, you will have just gotten the best computer setup in the world. You won't be leaving OSX's warm glow for quite some time, and you know it.
[quote]Originally posted by Transcendental Octothorpe:
<strong>
We all know better than that; it's only half true.
When you get that rig set up, you may well leave the boards, yes, but you deffinately won't be getting a life, because, well, you will have just gotten the best computer setup in the world. You won't be leaving OSX's warm glow for quite some time, and you know it.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
You will have to find a website that utilizes 64 bit processors and needs huge amounts of computation time to render. ie the 3d version of Appleinsider, in real time only for 970 users.
Comments
From studying the diagram of the processor card, the memory controller is very close to the processors. The GX bus runs at 3:1 ratio of core processor speed (for a 1.45GHz machine that's 483MHz) and is 32bit (4byte) read and 32bit write. Thats good for 3.87GBps. Hmm, sounds awefully familiar... if it was scaled to 900MHz it would reach 7.2GBps...hmm
There is a faster fabric bus that runs at 2:1 ratio and is 64bit read/write and it connects to other processor modules while GX bus connects to the IO bus.
The module for the 1.45GHz model is different to the module with 1.2GHz POWER4+'s. For expample the memory controller and L3 cache are on seperate chips on the 1.45GHz card. The L3 on that one is 32MB, while on the 1.2GHz card the L3 cache (8MB) and memory controller are one chip! The RAM is DDR 200MHz (PC1600) and there are SMI chips that combine the slots into 256bit data paths to the memory controller a main reason, I suspect, that the RAM slots are on the same card as the processors.
There are similarities between GX bus and the bus described for the 970.
<strong>Been reading up on the POWER4+ (130nm version of the POWER4) that gets to 1.45GHz and is used in IBM's 650 server. That server can take up to 8 processors, 2 processors to a card. Interesting to note is that the RAM is on the daughtercard connected via 208 pin DIMM slots, populated 4 at a time, so it looks like a NUMA architecture. The cards connect via the GX bus which is described as a derivative of the 6XX bus used on the PPC 620 and 630 (aka the POWER3). Apparently the G stands for Gigaprocessor (their words not mine).
From studying the diagram of the processor card, the memory controller is very close to the processors. The GX bus runs at 3:1 ratio of core processor speed (for a 1.45GHz machine that's 483MHz) and is 32bit (4byte) read and 32bit write. Thats good for 3.87GBps. Hmm, sounds awefully familiar... if it was scaled to 900MHz it would reach 7.2GBps...hmm
There is a faster fabric bus that runs at 2:1 ratio and is 64bit read/write and it connects to other processor modules while GX bus connects to the IO bus.
The module for the 1.45GHz model is different to the module with 1.2GHz POWER4+'s. For expample the memory controller and L3 cache are on seperate chips on the 1.45GHz card. The L3 on that one is 32MB, while on the 1.2GHz card the L3 cache (8MB) and memory controller are one chip! The RAM is DDR 200MHz (PC1600) and there are SMI chips that combine the slots into 256bit data paths to the memory controller a main reason, I suspect, that the RAM slots are on the same card as the processors.
There are similarities between GX bus and the bus described for the 970.</strong><hr></blockquote>
reference please?
I'm sure you want a link... click the smiley
<a href="http://publib-b.boulder.ibm.com/Redbooks.nsf/RedpaperAbstracts/redp0194.html?Open"; target="_blank"> :cool: </a>
<strong>IBM's red paper for the 650. I gave you all the clues...
I'm sure you want a link... click the smiley
<a href="http://publib-b.boulder.ibm.com/Redbooks.nsf/RedpaperAbstracts/redp0194.html?Open"; target="_blank"> :cool: </a></strong><hr></blockquote>
Thanks for the info.
<strong>
Motorola uses the prefixes "MPC" and "XPC" (among others) to denote a PPC's qualification status. MPC means the chip is fully qualified while XPC means that it is not. There was a pic on the web of the 1.25 taken after someone removed the heatsink. The prefix on the chip was XPC. IMO, this supports Amorph's statement that the current 1.25's are "freak" chips. I just wonder how many more Apple has stockpiled- they can't continue to sell them for the next 6 months with a finite quantity and they won't be able to move them down the product ladder for the same reason.
Maybe the 970 will be here by March and we will never see the '57s.</strong><hr></blockquote>
My 400MHz G4 says "XPC7400".
ALL Apple chips are tested against a different standard of cooling than other G4s.
"MPC" doesn't happen until years after a chip's release.
There will be a Power Mac update very soon, and it will be the last Power Mac G4.
Barto
<strong>
There will be a Power Mac update very soon, and it will be the last Power Mac G4.
Barto</strong><hr></blockquote>
oooh oooh... bet it has bigger fins and more chrome... as the last G4, it needs a Moto hood ornament for people to rip off in frustration when the 970 comes out
(yes i realize that the MDD SpeedHole case probably won't change and they'll reserve the true design shift to accompany the paradigm shifts to IBM (Black Macs anyone? NeXT's sure looked good)
maybe Apple will cut a deal with Ford/Jaguar to resell all the old G4s for embedded use in exchange for use of the Jaguar name, hood ornament, and British Racing Green paint rights.
updates to FW2, BlueTooth, Airport Extreme, etc don't seem to require a case change... all mobo level or daughtercard, IIRC
but if it's truly the bye bye Moto Mac, it ought to have something special, shouldn't it?
wire hubcaps for better cooling?
let's hear or see some mockups <think chrome and fins>
good signs
[ 01-20-2003: Message edited by: curiousuburb ]</p>
No special events on the horizon. Maybe no updates in Jan.
Andrew
The answer must be that they have something up their sleave and it is just a round the corner (They must have long arms). They have held off bumpig the speed of the imac when they could easily have bumped it to 1ghz before Christmas.
This must indicate that the next models of both iMacs and PM will include FW800 and bluetooth and that either...
The PM will get the 970, seems unlikely yet or that they will get the MPC7457 very soon, more likely. That would then allow the iMac to start shipping at up to 1.25ghz and give a great boost to it's sales.
We all know that Apple is very confident that they have some exciting products for this year, so I guess we need a little patience. The seems to be a body of opinion which is being largly ignored that new machines are arriving in March. I guess that as time rolls on and given the information above regarding MOTO I think we will just have to wait another 6 weeks.
<img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
<strong>Well the 7457 is supposed to be smaller and cheaper because of the die shrink, maybe the iMac and Powermacs will get the new processor at the same time. If the stats on the 57 are good, that may explain why Apple wants to delay the new desktops so they can get these processors in them. In this case, delays seem to be a good sign.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Agreed.
I also think the "Windtunnel" tag for current machines is a serious impediment to sales of current PM's. If the 7457 is cooler perhaps the "Windtunnel" will be behind them.
Lemon Bon Bon
<strong>
Agreed.
I also think the "Windtunnel" tag for current machines is a serious impediment to sales of current PM's. If the 7457 is cooler perhaps the "Windtunnel" will be behind them.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If the 57 is the new G4 that I was told about with a new mobo design, then no, it won't be cooler. The G4 that is suppose to come out was due last year but wasn't released because of over heating issues. Even the vents on the MDD weren't enough to cool it. So we'll see what they release and how hot it runs.
<strong>
If the 57 is the new G4 that I was told about with a new mobo design, then no, it won't be cooler. The G4 that is suppose to come out was due last year but wasn't released because of over heating issues. Even the vents on the MDD weren't enough to cool it. So we'll see what they release and how hot it runs.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well I hope that it's not. I hope that it will be a die shrunk G4 with cooler operating temperatures.
<strong>
When my IBM 970 powered PowerMac and 23" cinema display arrives I will leave these boards and get a life.</strong><hr></blockquote>
We all know better than that; it's only half true.
When you get that rig set up, you may well leave the boards, yes, but you deffinately won't be getting a life, because, well, you will have just gotten the best computer setup in the world. You won't be leaving OSX's warm glow for quite some time, and you know it.
<strong>
We all know better than that; it's only half true.
When you get that rig set up, you may well leave the boards, yes, but you deffinately won't be getting a life, because, well, you will have just gotten the best computer setup in the world. You won't be leaving OSX's warm glow for quite some time, and you know it.
You will have to find a website that utilizes 64 bit processors and needs huge amounts of computation time to render. ie the 3d version of Appleinsider, in real time only for 970 users.
970 early? nawww, can't be
75X w/ Altivec? nawww, a slower G4 than Motorola's
I'm stumped.