It actually makes me nervous. I think it means there won't be any new PB's announced today. Why would Apple put up a new promotion banner, just for one day?
Should find out soon, if it's not already too late. What time does Apple typically do their Tuesday announcements?
9:00 am PST (?). The Microslut Word banner was only up for about a day just before the G5 "now shipping" display went up.
But I tend to think the way you are... nothing for weeks.
[i]Originally posted by pscates Okay, it's Tuesday...a full WEEK after three or so major rumor sites all but "confirmed" a PowerBook release "this week".
I hereby declare all rumor sites (and a good portion of you guys...and you know who you are) COMPLETELY full of shit and amateur straw graspers.
So let it be written, so let it be done.
So there.
PowerBook my ass...
It doesn't exist. It's like Bigfoot. Someone has some shaky, grainy footage of it rolling down a hallway at Cupertino, but that's about it.
It might've been a silver cafeteria tray with an Apple logo on it...
I have to say that as disappointed as I am at the PowerBook delays, I really don't think that it's great a mystery. Given the lead-time in bringing a new product to market, a substantial delay by one supplier (guess who) can hold up an entire product line for months.
I posted quite some time back that none of us really had enough of an appreciation for just how badly Motorolla has screwed Apple. This is probably a great example.
My guess: Two years ago when Apple started working on the Albooks, Moto said Q1 '03 for the 7457. Apple said great because due to heat issue we can't go above 1 GHz in a laptop with a 7455. At some point, it likely became clear that Moto was going to be late so Apple made the switch to the current plan; intro the 12 and 17 with the 7455 but don't update the 15 because other than aluminum, FW800 and lighted keys it had nowhere to go. I suspect Apple was planning on updating before the fall for back to school but simply didn't get chips in time.
So the question becomes what is Apple's plan from this point, wait it out for the 7457, or try to roll out the G5 ahead of schedule? I wish I knew.
I say ?go full steam ahead on the G5 PowerBook? (do whatever it takes and, in the meantime, drop the prices across the current PowerBooks to ridiculous, ?blow out? levels) AND treat all of us to a live simulcast of Steve kicking the CEO of Motorola in the balls via satellite.
Based upon a little archive digging: Motorola "officially" added the 7457 to their roadmap in Oct. '02. In Feb. '03 they came out with the following:
"Alpha" samples of the new Motorola PPC (7457) are available today, "Market" samples will ship in March, market introduction is scheduled for Q4/2003.
So, Apple has probably known about this huge hole in their PowerBook update cycle for well over a year, and not been able to do a thing about it. >1 GHz 7455's are too hot, 7457's wouldn't be ready, and 90 nm 970's wouldn't be ready.
About a month ago ATAT posted a report that Apple was expecting a shipment of new chips last May. Presumably 7457's.
So, Apple had a huge hole, Apple possibly got Moto to move up production to plug huge hole. Moto failed, Apple had a huge hole.
I wish I had the antacid concession at One Infinite Loop over the last year.
Aren't you allowed to sue for market losses like this? If it's true of course. But guess Apple has to accuse and then prove it, which might be a little tough, don't know.
Aren't you allowed to sue for market losses like this? If it's true of course. But guess Apple has to accuse and then prove it, which might be a little tough, don't know.
We don't know of course, but it seems that Motorola didn't promise to have the 7457 available this spring. No promise means no lawsuit.
So, Apple had a huge hole, Apple possibly got Moto to move up production to plug huge hole. Moto failed, Apple had a huge hole.
What exactly are you basing that on? The first TiBooks went nine months before their revision (January to October). There no reason to expect that Apple ever intended to revise the AlBooks any faster than that; on the contrary, they like to get a lot of mileage out of new products.
Here's a simple theory: AlBooks were expected to last about nine months. The TiBook had to stay as it is to satisfy the laggards who want to boot in OS 9. All three get revised in the fall, by which time Moto is to be shipping the 7457 (fourth quarter).
Quote:
Originally posted by macserverX
Aren't you allowed to sue for market losses like this? If it's true of course. But guess Apple has to accuse and then prove it, which might be a little tough, don't know.
It would indeed be a little tough to sue Motorola for not shipping a processor that they never said they'd be shipping until next quarter.
However it would be a very stupid move on behalf of Apple to delay an update to the 15" PB. Its the most popular model and it is the most dated. I'm sure Steve and the gang know this.
To wait and debute the new 15" at frog fest is way beyond me ....... why the hell do we have an expo in France anyway ...... they hate us with as much enthusiasm as we have for them.
expo in France anyway ...... they hate us with as much enthusiasm as we have for them.
Have you ever been to France? I've been to France a few times and have never felt any hatred whatsoever. In fact, I've found the French to be the exact opposite of what most Americans claim they are. It seems to me that many Americans suffer from xenophobia.
To wait and debute the new 15" at frog fest is way beyond me ....... why the hell do we have an expo in France anyway ...... they hate us with as much enthusiasm as we have for them.
Apple would very much like to sell to the European market (certainly more than they're selling now), and Paris happens to be a suitably sized town (to understate!) in a country that borders most of the rest of Europe, or close enough. Basically, if you're a company trying to reach the European market with a big festival, you could do a lot worse than Paris.
As for your last sentence, it's AppleOutsider material, but follow your own logic from the premise that Apple does hold an Expo in Paris every year, with great fanfare and large crowds, product introductions and Stevenotes.
Have you ever been to France? I've been to France a few times and have never felt any hatred whatsoever. In fact, I've found the French to be the exact opposite of what most Americans claim they are. It seems to me that many Americans suffer from xenophobia.
What exactly are you basing that on? The first TiBooks went nine months before their revision (January to October). There no reason to expect that Apple ever intended to revise the AlBooks any faster than that; on the contrary, they like to get a lot of mileage out of new products.
Here's a simple theory: AlBooks were expected to last about nine months. The TiBook had to stay as it is to satisfy the laggards who want to boot in OS 9. All three get revised in the fall, by which time Moto is to be shipping the 7457 (fourth quarter).
We'll never know unless someone at Apple quits and writes a book. I agree with your assessment of the 12 and 17" Al PBs. They were introduced in January, they should last till the fall before the first revision. Basically, the 17" PB could have lasted until next January. It has all the latest technologies. It just needs a speed bump if one were available. The 12" (IMHO) could use a DVI out connector. In general I think most would agree that an update to the Al PBs, while nice, is not late.
The 15" Al PB is the puzzler. I think it should have come out in May or so. It could have debuted with the same CPU as the 17". That way all the PBs would be in sync. Apple could have maintained production of the Ti PB if they needed an OS 9 compatible PB. (Not sure that they do.) The Ti PB lacks Airport Express, built-in Bluetooth and the nicer build of the 17" PB as well as a number of other minor improvements.
What exactly are you basing that on? The first TiBooks went nine months before their revision (January to October).
It was simply my best guess at what may have happened based upon rumors (there's that word) and even one or two facts.
But, in my opinion, and I am willing to bet Apple's, 10 months without an update for the Tibook, a 10 months which includes the back-to-school season, is a huge hole. It also doesn't make sense, as others have stated, that Apple hasn't updated the 15" TiBook 8 months after the release of the AlBooks. It seems almost certain that something unfortunate is going on.
The reference to Apple perhaps trying to get Moto to plug the hole is based on Jack's column of reports of a missed Moto shipment in May. That may be hogwash, but Jack is usually somewhat reliable.
The 15" Al PB is the puzzler. I think it should have come out in May or so. It could have debuted with the same CPU as the 17". Apple could have maintained production of the Ti PB if they needed an OS 9 compatible PB. (Not sure that they do.) The Ti PB lacks Airport Express, built-in Bluetooth and the nicer build of the 17" PB as well as a number of other minor improvements.
i agree with you about the missing features in the 15" holding it up. and causing speculation about the vapourware 15" AlPB. Apple must have known at the start of the year that the next G4 and first G5's wouldn't be available until Sept/Oct. Apple's apparent policy of no update without a speed bump doesn't make sense to a lot of people- hence these endless rumor threads \
despite our critiques, steve's year of the laptop seems to have come true. ibook+powerbook percentage of hardware sales ($):
Q1 41%
Q2 46%
Q3 51%
of course whether this would have been even higher with a 15"Al PB will remain a topic of speculation
here's hoping the wait is worth it: Panther Powerbooks in Paris...
year of the laptop as the numbers suggest steve knew these numvers before we did, when planning the g5 he had to of thought of g5 laptops agree, and so too ibm because they are seeing the same numbers. so it isn't out of reach to expect steve and ibm to have parallel paths, g5 desktop and g5 laptops. so maybe with steves experience with moto, he and ibm have been doing a g5laptop thing all along and with the "year of the laptop" means big $$$$$$ and not wanting to miss it. so here comes expo paris and chaching, the g5 desktop has huge orders now for the laptop, no momentum lost. if indeed most of g5 sales so far are dual, that would not eat into laptop sales. steve is smart and this hole has to be filled hopefully people won't go dell
Comments
Originally posted by Nerdly
It actually makes me nervous. I think it means there won't be any new PB's announced today. Why would Apple put up a new promotion banner, just for one day?
Should find out soon, if it's not already too late. What time does Apple typically do their Tuesday announcements?
9:00 am PST (?). The Microslut Word banner was only up for about a day just before the G5 "now shipping" display went up.
But I tend to think the way you are... nothing for weeks.
....mmmokay, maybe not G5s and Apple just might spring something upon us before Paris but still... it's getting awfully close.
Screed
I hereby declare all rumor sites (and a good portion of you guys...and you know who you are) COMPLETELY full of shit and amateur straw graspers.
So let it be written, so let it be done.
So there.
PowerBook my ass...
It doesn't exist. It's like Bigfoot. Someone has some shaky, grainy footage of it rolling down a hallway at Cupertino, but that's about it.
It might've been a silver cafeteria tray with an Apple logo on it...
[i]Originally posted by pscates Okay, it's Tuesday...a full WEEK after three or so major rumor sites all but "confirmed" a PowerBook release "this week".
I hereby declare all rumor sites (and a good portion of you guys...and you know who you are) COMPLETELY full of shit and amateur straw graspers.
So let it be written, so let it be done.
So there.
PowerBook my ass...
It doesn't exist. It's like Bigfoot. Someone has some shaky, grainy footage of it rolling down a hallway at Cupertino, but that's about it.
It might've been a silver cafeteria tray with an Apple logo on it...
you got links...
Originally posted by pscates
It doesn't exist. It's like Bigfoot. Someone has some shaky, grainy footage of it rolling down a hallway at Cupertino, but that's about it.
It might've been a silver cafeteria tray with an Apple logo on it...
I posted quite some time back that none of us really had enough of an appreciation for just how badly Motorolla has screwed Apple. This is probably a great example.
My guess: Two years ago when Apple started working on the Albooks, Moto said Q1 '03 for the 7457. Apple said great because due to heat issue we can't go above 1 GHz in a laptop with a 7455. At some point, it likely became clear that Moto was going to be late so Apple made the switch to the current plan; intro the 12 and 17 with the 7455 but don't update the 15 because other than aluminum, FW800 and lighted keys it had nowhere to go. I suspect Apple was planning on updating before the fall for back to school but simply didn't get chips in time.
So the question becomes what is Apple's plan from this point, wait it out for the 7457, or try to roll out the G5 ahead of schedule? I wish I knew.
Fair enough? I think so.
"Alpha" samples of the new Motorola PPC (7457) are available today, "Market" samples will ship in March, market introduction is scheduled for Q4/2003.
So, Apple has probably known about this huge hole in their PowerBook update cycle for well over a year, and not been able to do a thing about it. >1 GHz 7455's are too hot, 7457's wouldn't be ready, and 90 nm 970's wouldn't be ready.
About a month ago ATAT posted a report that Apple was expecting a shipment of new chips last May. Presumably 7457's.
So, Apple had a huge hole, Apple possibly got Moto to move up production to plug huge hole. Moto failed, Apple had a huge hole.
I wish I had the antacid concession at One Infinite Loop over the last year.
Originally posted by macserverX
Aren't you allowed to sue for market losses like this? If it's true of course. But guess Apple has to accuse and then prove it, which might be a little tough, don't know.
We don't know of course, but it seems that Motorola didn't promise to have the 7457 available this spring. No promise means no lawsuit.
Originally posted by neumac
So, Apple had a huge hole, Apple possibly got Moto to move up production to plug huge hole. Moto failed, Apple had a huge hole.
What exactly are you basing that on? The first TiBooks went nine months before their revision (January to October). There no reason to expect that Apple ever intended to revise the AlBooks any faster than that; on the contrary, they like to get a lot of mileage out of new products.
Here's a simple theory: AlBooks were expected to last about nine months. The TiBook had to stay as it is to satisfy the laggards who want to boot in OS 9. All three get revised in the fall, by which time Moto is to be shipping the 7457 (fourth quarter).
Originally posted by macserverX
Aren't you allowed to sue for market losses like this? If it's true of course. But guess Apple has to accuse and then prove it, which might be a little tough, don't know.
It would indeed be a little tough to sue Motorola for not shipping a processor that they never said they'd be shipping until next quarter.
To wait and debute the new 15" at frog fest is way beyond me ....... why the hell do we have an expo in France anyway ...... they hate us with as much enthusiasm as we have for them.
expo in France anyway ...... they hate us with as much enthusiasm as we have for them.
Have you ever been to France? I've been to France a few times and have never felt any hatred whatsoever. In fact, I've found the French to be the exact opposite of what most Americans claim they are. It seems to me that many Americans suffer from xenophobia.
B
Originally posted by H4wk
To wait and debute the new 15" at frog fest is way beyond me ....... why the hell do we have an expo in France anyway ...... they hate us with as much enthusiasm as we have for them.
Apple would very much like to sell to the European market (certainly more than they're selling now), and Paris happens to be a suitably sized town (to understate!) in a country that borders most of the rest of Europe, or close enough. Basically, if you're a company trying to reach the European market with a big festival, you could do a lot worse than Paris.
As for your last sentence, it's AppleOutsider material, but follow your own logic from the premise that Apple does hold an Expo in Paris every year, with great fanfare and large crowds, product introductions and Stevenotes.
Originally posted by tvc15
Have you ever been to France? I've been to France a few times and have never felt any hatred whatsoever. In fact, I've found the French to be the exact opposite of what most Americans claim they are. It seems to me that many Americans suffer from xenophobia.
B
I agree completely.
Originally posted by BrunoBruin
What exactly are you basing that on? The first TiBooks went nine months before their revision (January to October). There no reason to expect that Apple ever intended to revise the AlBooks any faster than that; on the contrary, they like to get a lot of mileage out of new products.
Here's a simple theory: AlBooks were expected to last about nine months. The TiBook had to stay as it is to satisfy the laggards who want to boot in OS 9. All three get revised in the fall, by which time Moto is to be shipping the 7457 (fourth quarter).
We'll never know unless someone at Apple quits and writes a book. I agree with your assessment of the 12 and 17" Al PBs. They were introduced in January, they should last till the fall before the first revision. Basically, the 17" PB could have lasted until next January. It has all the latest technologies. It just needs a speed bump if one were available. The 12" (IMHO) could use a DVI out connector. In general I think most would agree that an update to the Al PBs, while nice, is not late.
The 15" Al PB is the puzzler. I think it should have come out in May or so. It could have debuted with the same CPU as the 17". That way all the PBs would be in sync. Apple could have maintained production of the Ti PB if they needed an OS 9 compatible PB. (Not sure that they do.) The Ti PB lacks Airport Express, built-in Bluetooth and the nicer build of the 17" PB as well as a number of other minor improvements.
Originally posted by BrunoBruin
What exactly are you basing that on? The first TiBooks went nine months before their revision (January to October).
It was simply my best guess at what may have happened based upon rumors (there's that word) and even one or two facts.
But, in my opinion, and I am willing to bet Apple's, 10 months without an update for the Tibook, a 10 months which includes the back-to-school season, is a huge hole. It also doesn't make sense, as others have stated, that Apple hasn't updated the 15" TiBook 8 months after the release of the AlBooks. It seems almost certain that something unfortunate is going on.
The reference to Apple perhaps trying to get Moto to plug the hole is based on Jack's column of reports of a missed Moto shipment in May. That may be hogwash, but Jack is usually somewhat reliable.
Originally posted by neutrino23
The 15" Al PB is the puzzler. I think it should have come out in May or so. It could have debuted with the same CPU as the 17". Apple could have maintained production of the Ti PB if they needed an OS 9 compatible PB. (Not sure that they do.) The Ti PB lacks Airport Express, built-in Bluetooth and the nicer build of the 17" PB as well as a number of other minor improvements.
i agree with you about the missing features in the 15" holding it up. and causing speculation about the vapourware 15" AlPB. Apple must have known at the start of the year that the next G4 and first G5's wouldn't be available until Sept/Oct. Apple's apparent policy of no update without a speed bump doesn't make sense to a lot of people- hence these endless rumor threads
despite our critiques, steve's year of the laptop seems to have come true. ibook+powerbook percentage of hardware sales ($):
Q1 41%
Q2 46%
Q3 51%
of course whether this would have been even higher with a 15"Al PB will remain a topic of speculation
here's hoping the wait is worth it: Panther Powerbooks in Paris...