I think there is an issue with the "headless" iMac concept.
Apple, I do not see releasing one, as it allows for their potentially beautiful design to be TOTALLY screwed up by any old CRT yucko-view-sonic monitor, etc. They want a signature machine, and a headless mac would not be that. They will control the entire thing, display and all, in my opinion. Not too many people would buy an Apple Flat Panel Monitor, when they can get a cheapo for hundreds of dollars less.
For those of you who *want* a headless mac, despite how good an idea it may seem, I think you are bound to be disappointed for the above reason.
I still see no reason that Apple can't come out with something beautiful and at a decent pricepoint to satisfy everyone, and get the iMac to where it should be again: at the top of their lineup.... an "enabler" for a much heftier G5 purchase.
On the one hand people complain that Apple hardware isn't as cheap as crappy WinPCs. On the other hand they expect all the latest features and not to have to pay for them. I for one (not being a gamer) am glad Apple doesn't make me pay for wicked fast GPUs I'll never need.
Aurora: sorry to take this one sentence out of context.
The eMac, to which Aurora referred is a nice system with great software for a decent price. Aurora suggests adding $50 to the cost, and thus probably $75 to the price for a GPU most people don't need. That's all I was saying. What kind of graphics card do you get with a $500 WinPC? Not much, I suspect but I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
The iMac, which is the subject of this thread is a different matter; a subpar system for which a premium is charged. If its specs were beefed up or the price was lowered, it'd have a better reputation and better sales.
All this talk about Developers, Developers, Developers... (sorry, had to)
You are forgetting one very important thing:
These are APPLE DEVELOPERS!!!
If apple doesn't make new hardware that people will scramble to buy, developers don't need to write programs for apple. A kick-A$$ new G5 Mini, or iMac, or Cube redux WILL WOW Developers. They will cheer, they will stand up, and it will be amazing.
Because these APPLE DEVELOPERS LOVE APPLES. They love programming for macs, the love programming ON macs, they love everything MAC. They love a great Stevenote, where kick some serious booty hardware is released!
All this talk about Developers, Developers, Developers... (sorry, had to)
You are forgetting one very important thing:
These are APPLE DEVELOPERS!!!
If apple doesn't make new hardware that people will scramble to buy, developers don't need to write programs for apple. A kick-A$$ new G5 Mini, or iMac, or Cube redux WILL WOW Developers. They will cheer, they will stand up, and it will be amazing.
Because these APPLE DEVELOPERS LOVE APPLES. They love programming for macs, the love programming ON macs, they love everything MAC. They love a great Stevenote, where kick some serious booty hardware is released!
These are not your normal developers!
True, who do people think developers are writing for? This is why its so important for Apple to have a great consumer machine that the consumer can fine tune the specifications to fit the consumer. Has anyone gone to apple's game page? they show a bunch of cutting edge games and then suggest imac or emac can run them using the joke of all video at the moment FX5200 or even 9200. those are very poor chips in this day and age of X800s, 6800s and 9800s. If grandma wants to read email and surf the 5200 is fine but if little johhnny wants to game he can forget it with those machines. so apple is loosing sales on computers and loosing sales for developers.
I have allways wondered what the mystery was for Apple since they never figured out how many consumers would love a Mac if they could get its fastest single cpu and had the option to have a fast video card with it.. iMac says no way,Emac says no way, and only Powermac allows this but most people dont need 2 Cpu's as most people dont want a gigantic aluminum beast taking up all that room. Why is it so hard for Apple to take a single 2.0 G5 and mate a 9800 to it? I would have done that a year ago with a option of fx5200 for those grandma's and people who dont enjoy a good game. It would have made a wonderful machine for many. iMac is a great design but G4 & mx video made sure it would never be a sales hit. Jobs has had 3 failures with consumers- Cube,iMac lcd,Emac. Its time he let someone do it right. Take a Powermac cut it in half, give it a 2.0 G5 with videocard options, 4 megs of memory,2 pci slots and presto a machine for almost anybody but Apple cant have one line eating into another so we end up with subpar outdated hardware thats overpriced=current iMac.
All this talk about Developers, Developers, Developers... (sorry, had to)
You are forgetting one very important thing:
These are APPLE DEVELOPERS!!!
If apple doesn't make new hardware that people will scramble to buy, developers don't need to write programs for apple. A kick-A$$ new G5 Mini, or iMac, or Cube redux WILL WOW Developers. They will cheer, they will stand up, and it will be amazing.
Because these APPLE DEVELOPERS LOVE APPLES. They love programming for macs, the love programming ON macs, they love everything MAC. They love a great Stevenote, where kick some serious booty hardware is released!
I really do think the key is for Apple to go back to one consumer desktop machine. Price it from $799 to $1499. Make it durable, cute, fun, and powerful. Make it semi expandable, colorful, and make it as "all things to all people" as it can be.
I really do think the key is for Apple to go back to one consumer desktop machine. Price it from $799 to $1499. Make it durable, cute, fun, and powerful. Make it semi expandable, colorful, and make it as "all things to all people" as it can be.
Just like the original iMac.
Yep, what is needed is something like a cross between the eMac and iMac in several configurations. The eMac would be a very nice computer for its price if it had an LCD. Even without an LCD, it represents good value.
Now that people have digital toys like iPods, digital cameras and video cameras, unlike in the days of the original iMac, consumers want everything in their computer. They want LCDs, they want lots of memory, they want fast processers, big hard drives, fast graphics cards if they play games, and they want it all for a good price. The current iMac offers only the first thing on this list.
I really do think the key is for Apple to go back to one consumer desktop machine. Price it from $799 to $1499. Make it durable, cute, fun, and powerful. Make it semi expandable, colorful, and make it as "all things to all people" as it can be.
Just like the original iMac.
true, hardware guys have been lost for a very long time. Software guys are the greatest. We know as Apple users the OS rules but we also know as hardware users that Macs leave you allways wanting. as Far as the troll alert i have been using Macs longer then a lot of folks so lets not be so fast to use the word troll jwdawso. The fact of the matter is the consumer line from Apple is a mess and poor sales for over 2 plus years prove it. If it wasnt a mess we wouldnt be siting here wondering how apple will get it right. by the way i own 2 imacs crts that i pass through the family and currently use a powermac at 1.47 with 1 gig of mem and Geforce3. 3 years old and it will still mop the floor vs any new iMac. but then again a $800 Pc would mop the floor vs my powermac
Thank you, 3.1416 The main idea is that the consumer should be able to get the video card to suite them. not just lets give everyone a fx5200 that has cost near nothing and hope they like it. At least make a model of iMac with a decent video since its becoming so important. Im still shocked that Powermac 1.8 and 2.0 both come with FX5200. that part doesnt cost apple $40.00 and these are $2000 and $2500 machines. Apparently they ignore reviews because they act like that card is terrific.FX5200 is anything but that. It may ok for some but start turning up the frames and it drops them faster then pie from Bill Gates face. no one should have to make due with that card.
Though Aurora's posts are obviously juvenile and employ, shall we say, interesting spelling and punctuation, he is completely correct in blasting Apple's choice of video cards in iMacs and Power Macs. The nVidia 5200 in a $2500 workstation is an absolute insult. Calling attention to this travesty does not make him a troll.
I'll second what Ensign says. I LOVE macs, I want them to do REALLY well. Criticism isn't always with the frame of mind, "Apple is stupid, sucks, I wish they would cave into nothingness...."
I also think that having those graphics cards as the option is not helping Apple. I am well aware they do the whole widget. They are amazing at so many things, lets see them get that brilliance in gear with video cards specs, so I can shut up. I have invested so much into them, I want them succeed. Be careful pointing fingers....
I'd just like to suggest anybody who thinks the nVidia 5200 GPU is a worthwhile card, especially for the PowerMacs, look here. It performs like an integrated graphics solution, actually a bit better in OpenGL but it still isn't anything you'd want in any computer that isn't competing around the integrated level. All the PowerMacs should really have the 9600.
I'm as hard on Apple as anyone in this forum. Yet, there could be a good reason they use such low end vid cards. It occurred to me that they may not be able to do any better. They do not have the OEM options as PC manufacturers. AAC is probably a big part of this. Every card has to be specially designed for or by Apple. The iMac does not have an AGP slot so it is practically the same as integrated graphics. Apple clearly understands the value of a good graphics card or else they would not have one as an expensive option for the PM line and they would not use it as a differentiator. It goes to show just how weak their position is in the computer industry. Remember this the next time someone says that market share doesn't matter.
Since this is FH, I will add that we have no reason to believe this will change in the future. Apple's market position is not getting stronger by the day, it is getting weaker. New PCs are being sold at an increasingly faster rate than new Macs. Therefore, new component makers have even less reason to diversify their lines. They can sell the same amount of new product this year to the PC only crowd as they could last year going dual platform. That becomes more true as each year passes. Besides, Making new cards for Macs won't get them any new customers. The Mac market is not growing that fast. They know that Apple will be content with two and three year old tech because they have no choice. Apple will buy the same number of chips from Nvidia whether they are old chips or new ones. Same for ATI. This is not about to change anytime soon. Therefore, Apple just has to make the best of what they can get. At any rate, I hope that is the reason. Because I would hate to believe that Apple is stupid enough to offer such lackluster hardware when they have better options available to them.
troll defending alert. Oh, you are right. Mr. Alienware - a Mac afficionado from a way back - just happen to drop in. "The whole philosophy of crippling iMac with subpar cpu's-(G4)" - what insight! " Look at all the hardware- Powermac- i waited a year for what???" - I guess arguably the fastest desktop is pretty worthless. "What has Apples hardware division become??? a art shop using technology from years gone by?" - a clear and concise analysis of Apple's current efforts.
whats your point repeating others post but go right ahead.Thank you, and just because someone hasnt registered here at apple insider before you doesnt make them a newbie,troll or PC lover. The Fact is we have the best OS period. the other fact is our hardware doesnt hold a candle in performance in respect to the otherside except for the dual 2.5. dual 2.0 is about equal to the high end P4s according to MacAddict and Macworld. If 2 Mac magazines are saying that with all their bias then you know its true. So where does this leave any G4 machine??? way way behind unless you doing that photoshop blur that Apple used to love to brag about.
I simply wish they would make a machine that the consumer or prosumer could configure. 1 fastest cpu and 1 fast GPU and ill order another today but Apple pushes you into Powermac with everything or consumer offerings with poor performance. ( I like to game on the most stable and safe platform thank you), Every top PC maker lets you configure the machine and they own the market. Apple forces people into getting things they dont want just to get the item of their interest. this is another reason they have such poor marketshare. sell to the consumer and the consumer will reward you. example-crt iMac & iPod. build a computer out of subpar hardware and consumers will leave you. example iMac Lcd and Emac. Apple should have been selling a single G5 machine with its fastest cpu and gpu(options) a year ago and we would have beat a path to Apple's door. Why is that so hard for Apple when every PC maker in the world does this? build a computer for the consumer not for your ego.
Comments
Originally averred by a_greer
My prediction, 3 words baby:
Display sold seperately
(((Sorry for the cross-post, but I screwed up))))
---
I think there is an issue with the "headless" iMac concept.
Apple, I do not see releasing one, as it allows for their potentially beautiful design to be TOTALLY screwed up by any old CRT yucko-view-sonic monitor, etc. They want a signature machine, and a headless mac would not be that. They will control the entire thing, display and all, in my opinion. Not too many people would buy an Apple Flat Panel Monitor, when they can get a cheapo for hundreds of dollars less.
For those of you who *want* a headless mac, despite how good an idea it may seem, I think you are bound to be disappointed for the above reason.
I still see no reason that Apple can't come out with something beautiful and at a decent pricepoint to satisfy everyone, and get the iMac to where it should be again: at the top of their lineup.... an "enabler" for a much heftier G5 purchase.
Hope Springs Eternal,
Mandricard
AppleOutsider
Originally posted by iDave
On the one hand people complain that Apple hardware isn't as cheap as crappy WinPCs. On the other hand they expect all the latest features and not to have to pay for them. I for one (not being a gamer) am glad Apple doesn't make me pay for wicked fast GPUs I'll never need.
Aurora: sorry to take this one sentence out of context.
so instead you pay a premium for subpar systems?
THAT makes sense
Originally posted by applenut
so instead you pay a premium for subpar systems?
The eMac, to which Aurora referred is a nice system with great software for a decent price. Aurora suggests adding $50 to the cost, and thus probably $75 to the price for a GPU most people don't need. That's all I was saying. What kind of graphics card do you get with a $500 WinPC? Not much, I suspect but I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
The iMac, which is the subject of this thread is a different matter; a subpar system for which a premium is charged. If its specs were beefed up or the price was lowered, it'd have a better reputation and better sales.
You are forgetting one very important thing:
These are APPLE DEVELOPERS!!!
If apple doesn't make new hardware that people will scramble to buy, developers don't need to write programs for apple. A kick-A$$ new G5 Mini, or iMac, or Cube redux WILL WOW Developers. They will cheer, they will stand up, and it will be amazing.
Because these APPLE DEVELOPERS LOVE APPLES. They love programming for macs, the love programming ON macs, they love everything MAC. They love a great Stevenote, where kick some serious booty hardware is released!
These are not your normal developers!
Originally posted by tak1108
All this talk about Developers, Developers, Developers... (sorry, had to)
You are forgetting one very important thing:
These are APPLE DEVELOPERS!!!
If apple doesn't make new hardware that people will scramble to buy, developers don't need to write programs for apple. A kick-A$$ new G5 Mini, or iMac, or Cube redux WILL WOW Developers. They will cheer, they will stand up, and it will be amazing.
Because these APPLE DEVELOPERS LOVE APPLES. They love programming for macs, the love programming ON macs, they love everything MAC. They love a great Stevenote, where kick some serious booty hardware is released!
These are not your normal developers!
True, who do people think developers are writing for? This is why its so important for Apple to have a great consumer machine that the consumer can fine tune the specifications to fit the consumer. Has anyone gone to apple's game page? they show a bunch of cutting edge games and then suggest imac or emac can run them using the joke of all video at the moment FX5200 or even 9200. those are very poor chips in this day and age of X800s, 6800s and 9800s. If grandma wants to read email and surf the 5200 is fine but if little johhnny wants to game he can forget it with those machines. so apple is loosing sales on computers and loosing sales for developers.
I have allways wondered what the mystery was for Apple since they never figured out how many consumers would love a Mac if they could get its fastest single cpu and had the option to have a fast video card with it.. iMac says no way,Emac says no way, and only Powermac allows this but most people dont need 2 Cpu's as most people dont want a gigantic aluminum beast taking up all that room. Why is it so hard for Apple to take a single 2.0 G5 and mate a 9800 to it? I would have done that a year ago with a option of fx5200 for those grandma's and people who dont enjoy a good game. It would have made a wonderful machine for many. iMac is a great design but G4 & mx video made sure it would never be a sales hit. Jobs has had 3 failures with consumers- Cube,iMac lcd,Emac. Its time he let someone do it right. Take a Powermac cut it in half, give it a 2.0 G5 with videocard options, 4 megs of memory,2 pci slots and presto a machine for almost anybody but Apple cant have one line eating into another so we end up with subpar outdated hardware thats overpriced=current iMac.
Originally posted by tak1108
All this talk about Developers, Developers, Developers... (sorry, had to)
You are forgetting one very important thing:
These are APPLE DEVELOPERS!!!
If apple doesn't make new hardware that people will scramble to buy, developers don't need to write programs for apple. A kick-A$$ new G5 Mini, or iMac, or Cube redux WILL WOW Developers. They will cheer, they will stand up, and it will be amazing.
Because these APPLE DEVELOPERS LOVE APPLES. They love programming for macs, the love programming ON macs, they love everything MAC. They love a great Stevenote, where kick some serious booty hardware is released!
These are not your normal developers!
Just like the original iMac.
Originally posted by Aurora
Take a Powermac cut it in half, give it a 2.0 G5 with videocard options, 4 megs of memory
That'll be a game screamer fer sure!
Originally posted by Messiahtosh
I really do think the key is for Apple to go back to one consumer desktop machine. Price it from $799 to $1499. Make it durable, cute, fun, and powerful. Make it semi expandable, colorful, and make it as "all things to all people" as it can be.
Just like the original iMac.
Yep, what is needed is something like a cross between the eMac and iMac in several configurations. The eMac would be a very nice computer for its price if it had an LCD. Even without an LCD, it represents good value.
Now that people have digital toys like iPods, digital cameras and video cameras, unlike in the days of the original iMac, consumers want everything in their computer. They want LCDs, they want lots of memory, they want fast processers, big hard drives, fast graphics cards if they play games, and they want it all for a good price. The current iMac offers only the first thing on this list.
Originally posted by Messiahtosh
I really do think the key is for Apple to go back to one consumer desktop machine. Price it from $799 to $1499. Make it durable, cute, fun, and powerful. Make it semi expandable, colorful, and make it as "all things to all people" as it can be.
Just like the original iMac.
true, hardware guys have been lost for a very long time. Software guys are the greatest. We know as Apple users the OS rules but we also know as hardware users that Macs leave you allways wanting. as Far as the troll alert i have been using Macs longer then a lot of folks so lets not be so fast to use the word troll jwdawso. The fact of the matter is the consumer line from Apple is a mess and poor sales for over 2 plus years prove it. If it wasnt a mess we wouldnt be siting here wondering how apple will get it right. by the way i own 2 imacs crts that i pass through the family and currently use a powermac at 1.47 with 1 gig of mem and Geforce3. 3 years old and it will still mop the floor vs any new iMac. but then again a $800 Pc would mop the floor vs my powermac
Originally posted by iDave
I for one (not being a gamer) am glad Apple doesn't make me pay for wicked fast GPUs I'll never need.
Quartz Extreme. You'll benefit from a good GPU even if you never play games.
I also think that having those graphics cards as the option is not helping Apple. I am well aware they do the whole widget. They are amazing at so many things, lets see them get that brilliance in gear with video cards specs, so I can shut up. I have invested so much into them, I want them succeed. Be careful pointing fingers....
Since this is FH, I will add that we have no reason to believe this will change in the future. Apple's market position is not getting stronger by the day, it is getting weaker. New PCs are being sold at an increasingly faster rate than new Macs. Therefore, new component makers have even less reason to diversify their lines. They can sell the same amount of new product this year to the PC only crowd as they could last year going dual platform. That becomes more true as each year passes. Besides, Making new cards for Macs won't get them any new customers. The Mac market is not growing that fast. They know that Apple will be content with two and three year old tech because they have no choice. Apple will buy the same number of chips from Nvidia whether they are old chips or new ones. Same for ATI. This is not about to change anytime soon. Therefore, Apple just has to make the best of what they can get. At any rate, I hope that is the reason. Because I would hate to believe that Apple is stupid enough to offer such lackluster hardware when they have better options available to them.
Originally posted by jwdawso
troll defending alert.
whats your point repeating others post but go right ahead.Thank you, and just because someone hasnt registered here at apple insider before you doesnt make them a newbie,troll or PC lover. The Fact is we have the best OS period. the other fact is our hardware doesnt hold a candle in performance in respect to the otherside except for the dual 2.5. dual 2.0 is about equal to the high end P4s according to MacAddict and Macworld. If 2 Mac magazines are saying that with all their bias then you know its true. So where does this leave any G4 machine??? way way behind unless you doing that photoshop blur that Apple used to love to brag about.
I simply wish they would make a machine that the consumer or prosumer could configure. 1 fastest cpu and 1 fast GPU and ill order another today but Apple pushes you into Powermac with everything or consumer offerings with poor performance. ( I like to game on the most stable and safe platform thank you), Every top PC maker lets you configure the machine and they own the market. Apple forces people into getting things they dont want just to get the item of their interest. this is another reason they have such poor marketshare. sell to the consumer and the consumer will reward you. example-crt iMac & iPod. build a computer out of subpar hardware and consumers will leave you. example iMac Lcd and Emac. Apple should have been selling a single G5 machine with its fastest cpu and gpu(options) a year ago and we would have beat a path to Apple's door. Why is that so hard for Apple when every PC maker in the world does this? build a computer for the consumer not for your ego.
or
Cool
When i buy one?
Originally posted by nsousansousa
It looks like a road sign! There's clearly not enough art in that mock-up.