If Apple had more presence in the Enterprise markets they'd likely have more expandable machines. However their sales are still dominated by the consumer channel thus Apple has to make something that appeals to them more than just "another" box.
Here's a strategy I'd like to see Apple offer eventually.
Lowend- $0.00-1299.00
Mac mini, iMac G5
Midrange- $1300.00-1899.00
iMac G5 DP, Powermac Mini DP, Entry level Powermac
High End-$1999.00-3499.00
Powermac Quadra
Xserve
$1499 1U 970MP system(2 drive bay)
$2999 1U Quadra
$3999 2U Quadra
This would allow appropropriate coverage. The Powermac mini wouldn't be aluminum. It'd contain 3 PCI-Express slots and 4 RAM slots and 2 drive bays. The iMac G5 DP would be based on the 970MP chips.
The Quadra powermacs would have two sockets holding a 970MP chip each.
I agree with Louzer that Apple has a gaping whole in their lineup that simply doesn't have to be there. Develop a Powermac mini for $1399 or so. Give people the choice to go with the svelte iMac G5 or Powermac mini.
If Apple had more presence in the Enterprise markets they'd likely have more expandable machines. However their sales are still dominated by the consumer channel thus Apple has to make something that appeals to them more than just "another" box.
Here's a strategy I'd like to see Apple offer eventually.
Lowend- $0.00-1299.00
Mac mini, iMac G5
Midrange- $1300.00-1899.00
iMac G5 DP, Powermac Mini DP, Entry level Powermac
High End-$1999.00-3499.00
Powermac Quadra
Xserve
$1499 1U 970MP system(2 drive bay)
$2999 1U Quadra
$3999 2U Quadra
This would allow appropropriate coverage. The Powermac mini wouldn't be aluminum. It'd contain 3 PCI-Express slots and 4 RAM slots and 2 drive bays. The iMac G5 DP would be based on the 970MP chips.
The Quadra powermacs would have two sockets holding a 970MP chip each.
I agree with Louzer that Apple has a gaping whole in their lineup that simply doesn't have to be there. Develop a Powermac mini for $1399 or so. Give people the choice to go with the svelte iMac G5 or Powermac mini.
It's close to what I said about a $995 mini tower.
I do think that your low price point is just too low. $0.00 doesn't allow much room for manufacturing costs, much less profit.
Apple will always have problems with the enterprise customer. Single sourcing their machines doesn't fit within the model that enterprise works from. They will work their way in very slowly. Enterprise got burned in '95 when Apple looked to be in serious trouble. They started to divest themselves of their Macs then.
I have a little story about that.
A friend of mine was the one in charge of enterprise desktop purchasing at Boeing during the mid '80's through the late '90's. Boeing had built their networks and desktop infrastructure first around PC's in the early '80's. But they then moved away from them and continued their strategy with Macs.
By the time Christmas of '95 rolled around, Boeing had about 34,000 Macs, and about 800 PC's. Numerous other hi-tech companies had similar ratios.
When the disaster of Christmas '95 occurred, the industry was in an uproar. Apple, led by Michael "I don't have to be a visionary to run Apple" Spindler, made several disastrous mistakes in dealing with it.
CIO's went to upper management and told them that Apple was going down, and that they should divest themselves of their Macs.
They did.
When Steve came back to Apple, in a response to a question directed to him about the enterprise customer, which was slowly coming back partly because of Amelio's clone program, he said:
"The enterprise is not our customer".
How stupid.
You NEVER tell a potential customer that. Esp. since they WERE slowly coming back. Cutting off the clones however, ended that movement.
Enterprise doesn't trust Apple, and doesn't like it's secretiveness. They want to know the road being traveled.
I'm sorry for the diversion, but in the talk about new machines and the enterprise, I thought it would be helpful to understand some of that.
Actually you're pretty much spot on. Apple is a relative non factor in Enterprise markets. But boy are they missing an opportunity for the Small Biz Market. They could own a far larger share here by growing a pair and going after it.
They may be preparing for this..we'll see. Tiger Server is exactly what the SMB market needs. Now Apple needs a vibrant collection of biz tools. We're slowly getting there with a decent email app, Calendar off of life support, and other underlying technologies. Many more tools needed though. Apple only need provide the basic structure and let 3rd party ISV fill in the cracks.
The iMac could then become quite the biz desktop. Pull it out the box...add a wireless Mouse/Keyboard plug in the gig ethernet install and configure network apps.
I think the iMac makes for the perfect SMB computer. Fast and capable now and very energy and space efficient.
Actually you're pretty much spot on. Apple is a relative non factor in Enterprise markets. But boy are they missing an opportunity for the Small Biz Market. They could own a far larger share here by growing a pair and going after it.
They may be preparing for this..we'll see. Tiger Server is exactly what the SMB market needs. Now Apple needs a vibrant collection of biz tools. We're slowly getting there with a decent email app, Calendar off of life support, and other underlying technologies. Many more tools needed though. Apple only need provide the basic structure and let 3rd party ISV fill in the cracks.
The iMac could then become quite the biz desktop. Pull it out the box...add a wireless Mouse/Keyboard plug in the gig ethernet install and configure network apps.
I think the iMac makes for the perfect SMB computer. Fast and capable now and very energy and space efficient.
Yes, true.
Go to this link from Computerworld, scroll down past the MS stuff and you will come to Tiger. The three articles you can link to from there are interesting, but the one from Gartenberg is relevant to what you were saying. I've been subscribing to Computerworld for many years, it's a good enterprise publication.
I checked them out..well all but the Mercury News report I'll register for that page later.
You know I think that there's this overlying "threat" presence that Mac users have when it comes to Apple and the biz sector.
It's always "What is Microsoft going to do?" Well Microsoft is going to keep making bundles of cash. Their biz app portfolio isn't something that Apple will to compete against for quite some time.
Apple doesn't need much. A groupware app, They have the mailserver tech already(Postfix and Cyrus). And a capable Office Suite. Microsoft Office is going to sell regardless of what product Apple delivers. Some people require that bulletproof compatibility. However some people can easily go another route and leverage the platform agnostic benefits of PDF.
The iMac G5 is a great platform for this. Apple could create an iMac Business. Remove the CD drive and shrink the hard drive down to 80GB. Slap a 1.6Ghz G5 in it and sell it for $999
I checked them out..well all but the Mercury News report I'll register for that page later.
You know I think that there's this overlying "threat" presence that Mac users have when it comes to Apple and the biz sector.
It's always "What is Microsoft going to do?" Well Microsoft is going to keep making bundles of cash. Their biz app portfolio isn't something that Apple will to compete against for quite some time.
Apple doesn't need much. A groupware app, They have the mailserver tech already(Postfix and Cyrus). And a capable Office Suite. Microsoft Office is going to sell regardless of what product Apple delivers. Some people require that bulletproof compatibility. However some people can easily go another route and leverage the platform agnostic benefits of PDF.
The iMac G5 is a great platform for this. Apple could create an iMac Business. Remove the CD drive and shrink the hard drive down to 80GB. Slap a 1.6Ghz G5 in it and sell it for $999
I think that a slightly lower price iMac would be an excellent business machine. Most machines on desktops don't need upgrading. Few business's actually do upgrade their machines. Good networking ability, the new ACL's, Office, a fairly secure enviornment, and that SHOULD be enough to sell it.
Along with that, Apple should have a small business unit, if they don't already, to cater to these markets. Favorable financing, 24 hour, 7 day help, etc.
If Apple had more presence in the Enterprise markets they'd likely have more expandable machines. However their sales are still dominated by the consumer channel thus Apple has to make something that appeals to them more than just "another" box.
Here's a strategy I'd like to see Apple offer eventually.
Lowend- $0.00-1299.00
Mac mini, iMac G5
Midrange- $1300.00-1899.00
iMac G5 DP, Powermac Mini DP, Entry level Powermac
High End-$1999.00-3499.00
Powermac Quadra
Xserve
$1499 1U 970MP system(2 drive bay)
$2999 1U Quadra
$3999 2U Quadra
This would allow appropropriate coverage. The Powermac mini wouldn't be aluminum. It'd contain 3 PCI-Express slots and 4 RAM slots and 2 drive bays. The iMac G5 DP would be based on the 970MP chips.
The Quadra powermacs would have two sockets holding a 970MP chip each.
I agree with Louzer that Apple has a gaping whole in their lineup that simply doesn't have to be there. Develop a Powermac mini for $1399 or so. Give people the choice to go with the svelte iMac G5 or Powermac mini.
i think that is a nice coverage mapping.
personally i feel apple is slowly getting out of what you defined as the mid-range, because that's a very very crowded marketspace and involves potentially high high volumes eg. SME to large enterprise desktop deployment but... here's the "but".... thin profit margin in this space
in 2005 with iPod, Mac mini and iMac g5 new ones released, and soonish, slightly updated iBooks, apple has strong profits and some halo effect happening on the consumer level.
i think they are strongly looking now to shore up the high-end side, with cluster computing, distributed render nodes eg. video production, while pushing powermac for musician/video production stuff...
i think once they are confident about the high-end side being tight then they will "attack the middle" -- kind of a flanking manouvere, from the low-end consumer up and from the high-end-pro down... this is for 2006 though
i believe what you define as "entry level Powermac" or "higher-end iMac" is a space apple is asidiously avoiding right now. IBM is out of there, even despite being able to sell a lot of corporate services alongside it, and HP, well, they've taken a beating in that space.
edit: personally i'd like to see that 'mini-tower' powermac. but they won't do it just yet, you've seen how cautious apple management is. if they do something, they've done their research, know its going to sell by the boatloads, and be 'ultracool' somehow. 2006 along with much more profilgate apple financial and corporate services they're getting close, ever closer to that corporate golden goose that microsucks is strangling
The xt is the higher clocked 9600. The board might come with more memory. But all features of Tiger are supported on the plain 9600.
cool. thanks for clearin that up
i wonder if new iMac g5s and new PowerMacs, all are plain 9600, for space(no fan on GPU??) and heat issues (lower clocked to keep airflow reasonable and smooth on iMac and PowerMac)
if the HD performance has been fixed, and the fan noise bugs worked out, i'd say we have a brilliant machine on our hands.
I would too. We'd like to get one for the kitchen. When we designed it, I had all the walls stripped out, along with the plumbing and electric. I then installed a box with video and Cat 6 over the end of the peninsula.
By cutting out between the studs and reboarding back to give a square cutout, I can put a double folding arm in and hang the 20 off it . When it's back it will be flush. The wireless keyboard and mouse can sit in the cutout when not needed. It can be swung out to cover the whole kitchen.
I did this two years ago, just waiting for the right piece. I think it's here now.
I'm honestly curious, have you ever seen a PC with 4+ USB ports, all of which were full? I work at MIT, and I've never seen it. Also, what prevents that rare USB-device-freak from using one of the USB 2.0 ports to plug in a 4, 8, 12 port USB 1.1 hub?
Yeah...I have a PC with a USB hub...4 ports are full and I have to unplug one of them every time I want to plug in my webcam or camera (Ext. Soundcard - it's a laptop, cd burner - it's an old laptop, mouse and wacom tablet)
and the usb hub on iMacs?...some people would consider it spoils the look...of course they're also usually the ones who buy the computer for its looks.
Comments
Here's a strategy I'd like to see Apple offer eventually.
Lowend- $0.00-1299.00
Mac mini, iMac G5
Midrange- $1300.00-1899.00
iMac G5 DP, Powermac Mini DP, Entry level Powermac
High End-$1999.00-3499.00
Powermac Quadra
Xserve
$1499 1U 970MP system(2 drive bay)
$2999 1U Quadra
$3999 2U Quadra
This would allow appropropriate coverage. The Powermac mini wouldn't be aluminum. It'd contain 3 PCI-Express slots and 4 RAM slots and 2 drive bays. The iMac G5 DP would be based on the 970MP chips.
The Quadra powermacs would have two sockets holding a 970MP chip each.
I agree with Louzer that Apple has a gaping whole in their lineup that simply doesn't have to be there. Develop a Powermac mini for $1399 or so. Give people the choice to go with the svelte iMac G5 or Powermac mini.
Originally posted by hmurchison
If Apple had more presence in the Enterprise markets they'd likely have more expandable machines. However their sales are still dominated by the consumer channel thus Apple has to make something that appeals to them more than just "another" box.
Here's a strategy I'd like to see Apple offer eventually.
Lowend- $0.00-1299.00
Mac mini, iMac G5
Midrange- $1300.00-1899.00
iMac G5 DP, Powermac Mini DP, Entry level Powermac
High End-$1999.00-3499.00
Powermac Quadra
Xserve
$1499 1U 970MP system(2 drive bay)
$2999 1U Quadra
$3999 2U Quadra
This would allow appropropriate coverage. The Powermac mini wouldn't be aluminum. It'd contain 3 PCI-Express slots and 4 RAM slots and 2 drive bays. The iMac G5 DP would be based on the 970MP chips.
The Quadra powermacs would have two sockets holding a 970MP chip each.
I agree with Louzer that Apple has a gaping whole in their lineup that simply doesn't have to be there. Develop a Powermac mini for $1399 or so. Give people the choice to go with the svelte iMac G5 or Powermac mini.
It's close to what I said about a $995 mini tower.
I do think that your low price point is just too low. $0.00 doesn't allow much room for manufacturing costs, much less profit.
Apple will always have problems with the enterprise customer. Single sourcing their machines doesn't fit within the model that enterprise works from. They will work their way in very slowly. Enterprise got burned in '95 when Apple looked to be in serious trouble. They started to divest themselves of their Macs then.
I have a little story about that.
A friend of mine was the one in charge of enterprise desktop purchasing at Boeing during the mid '80's through the late '90's. Boeing had built their networks and desktop infrastructure first around PC's in the early '80's. But they then moved away from them and continued their strategy with Macs.
By the time Christmas of '95 rolled around, Boeing had about 34,000 Macs, and about 800 PC's. Numerous other hi-tech companies had similar ratios.
When the disaster of Christmas '95 occurred, the industry was in an uproar. Apple, led by Michael "I don't have to be a visionary to run Apple" Spindler, made several disastrous mistakes in dealing with it.
CIO's went to upper management and told them that Apple was going down, and that they should divest themselves of their Macs.
They did.
When Steve came back to Apple, in a response to a question directed to him about the enterprise customer, which was slowly coming back partly because of Amelio's clone program, he said:
"The enterprise is not our customer".
How stupid.
You NEVER tell a potential customer that. Esp. since they WERE slowly coming back. Cutting off the clones however, ended that movement.
Enterprise doesn't trust Apple, and doesn't like it's secretiveness. They want to know the road being traveled.
I'm sorry for the diversion, but in the talk about new machines and the enterprise, I thought it would be helpful to understand some of that.
Hey I'm always in the market for free computers
Actually you're pretty much spot on. Apple is a relative non factor in Enterprise markets. But boy are they missing an opportunity for the Small Biz Market. They could own a far larger share here by growing a pair and going after it.
They may be preparing for this..we'll see. Tiger Server is exactly what the SMB market needs. Now Apple needs a vibrant collection of biz tools. We're slowly getting there with a decent email app, Calendar off of life support, and other underlying technologies. Many more tools needed though. Apple only need provide the basic structure and let 3rd party ISV fill in the cracks.
The iMac could then become quite the biz desktop. Pull it out the box...add a wireless Mouse/Keyboard plug in the gig ethernet install and configure network apps.
I think the iMac makes for the perfect SMB computer. Fast and capable now and very energy and space efficient.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Melgross
Hey I'm always in the market for free computers
Actually you're pretty much spot on. Apple is a relative non factor in Enterprise markets. But boy are they missing an opportunity for the Small Biz Market. They could own a far larger share here by growing a pair and going after it.
They may be preparing for this..we'll see. Tiger Server is exactly what the SMB market needs. Now Apple needs a vibrant collection of biz tools. We're slowly getting there with a decent email app, Calendar off of life support, and other underlying technologies. Many more tools needed though. Apple only need provide the basic structure and let 3rd party ISV fill in the cracks.
The iMac could then become quite the biz desktop. Pull it out the box...add a wireless Mouse/Keyboard plug in the gig ethernet install and configure network apps.
I think the iMac makes for the perfect SMB computer. Fast and capable now and very energy and space efficient.
Yes, true.
Go to this link from Computerworld, scroll down past the MS stuff and you will come to Tiger. The three articles you can link to from there are interesting, but the one from Gartenberg is relevant to what you were saying. I've been subscribing to Computerworld for many years, it's a good enterprise publication.
Let me know what you think.
http://www.computerworld.com/softwar...l?SKC=os-74564
You know I think that there's this overlying "threat" presence that Mac users have when it comes to Apple and the biz sector.
It's always "What is Microsoft going to do?" Well Microsoft is going to keep making bundles of cash. Their biz app portfolio isn't something that Apple will to compete against for quite some time.
Apple doesn't need much. A groupware app, They have the mailserver tech already(Postfix and Cyrus). And a capable Office Suite. Microsoft Office is going to sell regardless of what product Apple delivers. Some people require that bulletproof compatibility. However some people can easily go another route and leverage the platform agnostic benefits of PDF.
The iMac G5 is a great platform for this. Apple could create an iMac Business. Remove the CD drive and shrink the hard drive down to 80GB. Slap a 1.6Ghz G5 in it and sell it for $999
Originally posted by hmurchison
I checked them out..well all but the Mercury News report I'll register for that page later.
You know I think that there's this overlying "threat" presence that Mac users have when it comes to Apple and the biz sector.
It's always "What is Microsoft going to do?" Well Microsoft is going to keep making bundles of cash. Their biz app portfolio isn't something that Apple will to compete against for quite some time.
Apple doesn't need much. A groupware app, They have the mailserver tech already(Postfix and Cyrus). And a capable Office Suite. Microsoft Office is going to sell regardless of what product Apple delivers. Some people require that bulletproof compatibility. However some people can easily go another route and leverage the platform agnostic benefits of PDF.
The iMac G5 is a great platform for this. Apple could create an iMac Business. Remove the CD drive and shrink the hard drive down to 80GB. Slap a 1.6Ghz G5 in it and sell it for $999
I think that a slightly lower price iMac would be an excellent business machine. Most machines on desktops don't need upgrading. Few business's actually do upgrade their machines. Good networking ability, the new ACL's, Office, a fairly secure enviornment, and that SHOULD be enough to sell it.
Along with that, Apple should have a small business unit, if they don't already, to cater to these markets. Favorable financing, 24 hour, 7 day help, etc.
Originally posted by hmurchison
If Apple had more presence in the Enterprise markets they'd likely have more expandable machines. However their sales are still dominated by the consumer channel thus Apple has to make something that appeals to them more than just "another" box.
Here's a strategy I'd like to see Apple offer eventually.
Lowend- $0.00-1299.00
Mac mini, iMac G5
Midrange- $1300.00-1899.00
iMac G5 DP, Powermac Mini DP, Entry level Powermac
High End-$1999.00-3499.00
Powermac Quadra
Xserve
$1499 1U 970MP system(2 drive bay)
$2999 1U Quadra
$3999 2U Quadra
This would allow appropropriate coverage. The Powermac mini wouldn't be aluminum. It'd contain 3 PCI-Express slots and 4 RAM slots and 2 drive bays. The iMac G5 DP would be based on the 970MP chips.
The Quadra powermacs would have two sockets holding a 970MP chip each.
I agree with Louzer that Apple has a gaping whole in their lineup that simply doesn't have to be there. Develop a Powermac mini for $1399 or so. Give people the choice to go with the svelte iMac G5 or Powermac mini.
i think that is a nice coverage mapping.
personally i feel apple is slowly getting out of what you defined as the mid-range, because that's a very very crowded marketspace and involves potentially high high volumes eg. SME to large enterprise desktop deployment but... here's the "but".... thin profit margin in this space
in 2005 with iPod, Mac mini and iMac g5 new ones released, and soonish, slightly updated iBooks, apple has strong profits and some halo effect happening on the consumer level.
i think they are strongly looking now to shore up the high-end side, with cluster computing, distributed render nodes eg. video production, while pushing powermac for musician/video production stuff...
i think once they are confident about the high-end side being tight then they will "attack the middle" -- kind of a flanking manouvere, from the low-end consumer up and from the high-end-pro down... this is for 2006 though
i believe what you define as "entry level Powermac" or "higher-end iMac" is a space apple is asidiously avoiding right now. IBM is out of there, even despite being able to sell a lot of corporate services alongside it, and HP, well, they've taken a beating in that space.
edit: personally i'd like to see that 'mini-tower' powermac. but they won't do it just yet, you've seen how cautious apple management is. if they do something, they've done their research, know its going to sell by the boatloads, and be 'ultracool' somehow. 2006
Originally posted by exhibit_13
from everything i've heard, yes it does. no worries
is the ati 9600 considered the next generation up from the ati 9600 xt
any insights appreciated
neither apple nor ati list any details on "ati 9600" just "ati 9600 pro" for example on ati website
Originally posted by sunilraman
hopefully the fixed (a) fan noise issues and (b) 7200rpm hard drive performance issues (xbench rates it as low as an iBook hard disk in some cases)
I really want to know if that disk performance problem (apparently a hardware bug?) has been fixed.
Originally posted by sunilraman
is the ati 9600 considered the next generation up from the ati 9600 xt
any insights appreciated
neither apple nor ati list any details on "ati 9600" just "ati 9600 pro" for example on ati website
The xt is the higher clocked 9600. The board might come with more memory. But all features of Tiger are supported on the plain 9600.
Originally posted by sjk
I really want to know if that disk performance problem (apparently a hardware bug?) has been fixed.
We'll find out in a week or so.
Originally posted by melgross
The xt is the higher clocked 9600. The board might come with more memory. But all features of Tiger are supported on the plain 9600.
cool. thanks for clearin that up
i wonder if new iMac g5s and new PowerMacs, all are plain 9600, for space(no fan on GPU??) and heat issues (lower clocked to keep airflow reasonable and smooth on iMac and PowerMac)
it's overclocking GPU time...1!!!!1!1!1!
Originally posted by melgross
We'll find out in a week or so.
if the HD performance has been fixed, and the fan noise bugs worked out, i'd say we have a brilliant machine on our hands.
Originally posted by melgross
We'll find out in a week or so.
Hopefully sooner, after a trip to the Apple Store here when the updated models arrive.
Originally posted by sunilraman
if the HD performance has been fixed, and the fan noise bugs worked out, i'd say we have a brilliant machine on our hands.
I would too. We'd like to get one for the kitchen. When we designed it, I had all the walls stripped out, along with the plumbing and electric. I then installed a box with video and Cat 6 over the end of the peninsula.
By cutting out between the studs and reboarding back to give a square cutout, I can put a double folding arm in and hang the 20 off it . When it's back it will be flush. The wireless keyboard and mouse can sit in the cutout when not needed. It can be swung out to cover the whole kitchen.
I did this two years ago, just waiting for the right piece. I think it's here now.
Originally posted by sjk
Re: improved disk performance?
Hopefully sooner, after a trip to the Apple Store here when the updated models arrive.
don't forget to post what Xbench score you get on it ...!!?!!
ps. melgross -
Originally posted by concentricity
I'm honestly curious, have you ever seen a PC with 4+ USB ports, all of which were full? I work at MIT, and I've never seen it. Also, what prevents that rare USB-device-freak from using one of the USB 2.0 ports to plug in a 4, 8, 12 port USB 1.1 hub?
Yeah...I have a PC with a USB hub...4 ports are full and I have to unplug one of them every time I want to plug in my webcam or camera (Ext. Soundcard - it's a laptop, cd burner - it's an old laptop, mouse and wacom tablet)
and the usb hub on iMacs?...some people would consider it spoils the look...of course they're also usually the ones who buy the computer for its looks.