Fellowship, the problem, thankfully, doesn't sound too serious. Keep us informed though. I have had plenty of experience in talking to Apple Tech Support.
1) Memory. If the memory was totally stuffed, the computer would beep at you. If it was mildly stuffed, you would expect it to partly start up. Or start up then crash at some point.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The screen problems would suggest that system memory is not the problem, but then again, it can't be ruled out. The window server can use a lot of RAM, and if it tries to access a portion of bad RAM...
[quote]2) Hard Disk Drive. A corrupted portion of the HDD does not induce that kind of scrambling. The computer would simply not work at such an early stage at boot. I also imagine that FCiB has tried a CD.<hr></blockquote>
The disk could have been corrupted where the video driver is written. Attempting to reinstall on a bad disk would probably cause a lock-up down the road.
[quote]3) CPU. If this was stuffed, it wouldn't turn on.<hr></blockquote>
This is where you're completely wrong. I had an old JoeCard G4 upgrade that was taller than most other upgrade cards. As a result the spring clip put too much pressure on the core. A very small portion of the corner actually chipped off, but it still booted up and ran just fine...for a while, until I did something specific that would hard-lock the machine.
[quote]4) OS. Similar to HDD.<hr></blockquote>
The video driver could have been corrupted.
[quote]5) Power issue. When the graphics chip doesn't get enough power, you would expect mild corruption.<hr></blockquote>
Possible.
[quote]6) LCD. It's possible I guess, but I've never heard of major scrambling cause by the LCD.<hr></blockquote>
Imagine what whould happen to a desktop LCD if two of the twenty-four pins on a DVI connection were to cross...or if one or a couple were to short...
[quote]We are left with the MLB (in this case the graphics chip). It's something I personally see as well as hear about often. Sometimes graphics chips die. In fact too much of the time. It's a tad disturbing how CPUs can be so reliable, but GPUs are not. The chip is fried some how, and screwing up the data as it reaches the VRAM.<hr></blockquote>
We aren't left with anything. I'd let the Apple hardware techs diagnose it CPUs are every bit as unreliable as GPUs. They're very similar. Try overclocking sometime...you may think even a tiny overclock is reliable, but when you start doing complex math in you'll start getting rounding errors and such.
The screen problems would suggest that system memory is not the problem, but then again, it can't be ruled out. The window server can use a lot of RAM, and if it tries to access a portion of bad RAM...
That's true, but 9 out of 10 times, what reaches the bad RAM will be an application, not the textures being rendered. At start up, there is no window server. BootX passes bitmap data to the native framebuffer. At such an early stage, with such stuffed memory, you would expect zilch to work.
The disk could have been corrupted where the video driver is written. Attempting to reinstall on a bad disk would probably cause a lock-up down the road.
Mac OS X is a strict as hell OS. When the video driver has a problem, it turns off the video.
This is where you're completely wrong. I had an old JoeCard G4 upgrade that was taller than most other upgrade cards. As a result the spring clip put too much pressure on the core. A very small portion of the corner actually chipped off, but it still booted up and ran just fine...for a while, until I did something specific that would hard-lock the machine.
That's quite amazing. Possible I guess, but amazing that it still partially worked, being the complex beast it is. But it wouldn't matter whether it was the GPU or the CPU, it's still the MLB (motherboard).
Imagine what whould happen to a desktop LCD if two of the twenty-four pins on a DVI connection were to cross...or if one or a couple were to short...
The it probably wouldn't work. A laptop LCD is different from a desktop LCD. The controlling circutry is on the MLB, and the signals go straight to the pixels. But you are right, it could be that cable.
We aren't left with anything. I'd let the Apple hardware techs diagnose it CPUs are every bit as unreliable as GPUs. They're very similar. Try overclocking sometime...you may think even a tiny overclock is reliable, but when you start doing complex math in you'll start getting rounding errors and such.
You obviously arn't a service technician yourself then if you belive that GPUs are as reliable as CPUs. And you obviously arn't a service technician if you believe tiny overclocks cause rounding errors. CPUs don't have a set clock speed. There is no reason there should be errors when they are overclocked a bit (how much depends on the CPU). You well get errors when you overclock it past what it can take *cough*Pentium 3 1.13GHz*cough*, but I just don't see what the hell you're arguing here.
Maybe FCiB should listen to people who have technical experience in diagnosing and fixing Macs.
Fellowship, I had exactly the same thing happen to my iBook about a month ago. It was six months old at the time, and the problem presented itself *precisely* as you described it. After two minutes on the phone with an Apple tech they had me ship it back for a motherboard replacement. I had it back in my hands on the seventh day after my call (three of which were a holiday weekend) and it's worked flawlessly since ([knock knock] on wood). Good service, good outcome, but I'll be buying extended AppleCare. I wonder if Apple's been able to find or fix the flaw that causes this. The boards at info.apple.discussions.com are nearly chock full of people reporting identical problems in new iBooks.
<strong>Fellowship, I had exactly the same thing happen to my iBook about a month ago. It was six months old at the time, and the problem presented itself *precisely* as you described it. After two minutes on the phone with an Apple tech they had me ship it back for a motherboard replacement. I had it back in my hands on the seventh day after my call (three of which were a holiday weekend) and it's worked flawlessly since ([knock knock] on wood). Good service, good outcome, but I'll be buying extended AppleCare. I wonder if Apple's been able to find or fix the flaw that causes this. The boards at info.apple.discussions.com are nearly chock full of people reporting identical problems in new iBooks.</strong><hr></blockquote>
So in your case it was the motherboard?
Also if it is not too hard for you to find could you post a link to the boards on the apple site you mention?
It was my motherboard; after that (along with the CD-ROM, which had been a little unbalanced) was replaced by Apple service, it works great again. Most people with a similar problem report the motherboard being replaced.
You obviously arn't a service technician yourself then if you belive that GPUs are as reliable as CPUs. And you obviously arn't a service technician if you believe tiny overclocks cause rounding errors. CPUs don't have a set clock speed. There is no reason there should be errors when they are overclocked a bit (how much depends on the CPU). You well get errors when you overclock it past what it can take *cough*Pentium 3 1.13GHz*cough*, but I just don't see what the hell you're arguing here.<hr></blockquote>
I have plenty of experience in QA for both hardware and software. I'm sure most engineers will admit that CPUs today suffer from much strict tolerances out of necessity. We're talking 2 and 3 GHz parts vs <500 MHz parts. With the notable exception of the new GeForce FX 5800 Ultra, the chips themselves are quite happily cooled by meager heatsink/fan combinations. My Radeon 8500 runs fine with a broken fan, for example. Try running an Athlon XP without a fan on even the largest Thermalright SLK-900 heatsink. The chips from ATi and nVidia themselves are very reliable. It's the rest of the components that are pushing the limits. Remember, these cards are running FAST DDR memory and even DDR-2 memory. They're also more frequently user installed. A zillion things can be attrtibuted to high failure rates. Take the ATi cards for example... the lower end "Built by ATi" cards are manufactured by Sapphire (based in Hong Kong) with fabs in China. Those cards fail more often than their high-end counterparts which are manufactured in Markham, Ontario, Canada. Take cheap motherboards like FICs and ECSs and compare them to Tyan and Asus. Which will fail more often? You're mistaking entire graphics cards for the individual chips.
And this really has nothing to do with the original topic. You were too quick to assume it's simply a motherboard issue. It very well could be, but that's because most of the hardware is built-in.
And yes, my P4 2.4B starts reporting rounding errors in Prime95 with a meager overclock to 2.78 GHz.
And the incidence of failed graphics systems v failed CPU systems in Macs is probably about 15:1. Maybe Apple makes 1/2 a crappy motherboard, and 1/2 a good motherboard. But I doubt it.
CPUs have to get it right 100% of the time. Graphics chips don't. I wouldn't mind betting that's the reason graphics chips fail more often.
And the incidence of failed graphics systems v failed CPU systems in Macs is probably about 15:1. Maybe Apple makes 1/2 a crappy motherboard, and 1/2 a good motherboard. But I doubt it.
CPUs have to get it right 100% of the time. Graphics chips don't. I wouldn't mind betting that's the reason graphics chips fail more often.
Barto</strong><hr></blockquote>
380 MHz for a 2.4B is a meager overclock for the typical OC'er. Most people are quite happy running theirs at ~3 GHz. More proof you don't know what you're talking about. And they're perfectly fine with the fact that Prime95 will just fail to run completely, or that RC5 results will be inaccurate or whatever. As long as the core applications important to them work within acceptable parameters. Graphics chips also have to work 100% of the time.
Maybe it's the fact that the graphics subsystems change all the time. Apple's ICs change all the time. Apple also has to make the same choices of components like RAM, capacitors, resistors, etc. Not all of these components are equal...Witness the electrolyte formula scandal that was brought to the public recently.
So again, I'm going to have to beat into your head that the graphics subsystem is not the graphics chip. The reliability problems do not lie with the chips themselves.
<strong>Happened to mine about three weeks ago. New motherboard and all is OK....
...that is, after they installed a 700 MHz iBook motherboard into my 800 MHz iBook and had to repeat the exercise!
(grrrr...)</strong><hr></blockquote>
Looks like my question of apple "quality" was a valid one indeed.
I think I have made my last apple purchase until at least I can get a better sense that the company cares about designing something that might actually last.
If this is the motherboard on my ibook I will just sell the thing. I am not going to go every 6 to 9 months having the motherboard go out.
I have had such a share of headaches with apple. First with their OSX and now with their hardware.
Look here on this thread.. Three iBook users and three ibooks that did not last without major problems. Mine after only 9 months. Towel after 6 months and the other I am not sure how long.
Three out of three none the less..
Apple sucks
Let's say I was stupid and kept the apple crap. Would I not then get to look forward to this:
[quote]<strong>my ibook is about a year and a half old. after about 10 months i sent it in and they replaced the logic board for bizzare reasons that i will not go in to. as soon as it came out of warranty the hard drive started "disappearing" intermitently. it would freeze, then i'd restart, and it couldn't find the hard drive. if i booted off a firewire drive it still couldn't "see" the internal hard drive. it would only be after physically moving the computer that i would sometimes recognize the drive again. i'm thinking it's a loose connector but my options now are limited. it's a real shame to have to pay extra for a respectable warranty.
FCiB, let's say you are stupid, and you are. Think about it for a second. Then read the link in the middle of this post.
Laptops in general are more prone to failure due to their heavily integrated and mobile nature. Not only will they be more susceptible to environmental hazards, they're more likely to be a hassle to fix too.
After 2 years, my sister's VAIO laptop's left-side shift key failed. It also wouldn't charge any batteries. Has she shrugged off Sony's forever? No.
It goes with the territory.
They just ran a story on this. You must have missed it. Laptops reportedly have a 1% chance of failure for a given month. That's 12% after one year, 36% after three years. <a href="http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid={613D2CD4-57E7-495F-87BD- 9068D0ECA1D4%7D&siteid=mktw" target="_blank">Read this</a> before you do anything silly.
"The industry is averaging, for good notebooks, a failure rate of 1 percent per month,"-- or a 36 percent in a three-year period, said Formichelli, who helped develop IBM's (IBM: news, chart, profile) Think Pad. "If you get under that, you're stretching the laws of physics, yet that's so much better than five years ago in the notebook business, when we were at 4 percent a month.
You go with another laptop from any other manufacturer and you'll run into the same phenomenon. ThinkPads have reputations for being indestructible, and here tthey are admitting they get 1%/month failure rates.
Apple (AAPL: news, chart, profile), which had the marginally best, three-year repair rating from Consumer Reports, was the most guarded about what contributes to its failure rate.
The rule of thumb is you definitely buy AppleCare for laptops, though it probbaly isn't necessary for desktops. 1-year warranties are the standard for Gateway, Sony, IBM and HP.
Eugene, don't try to talk FSiBC out of selling his iBook. i'm sure it will go bad again in 6 months or so anyway.
seeing that that's the most likely scenario, i'd be willing to take if off your hands for a modest price (seeing as it will just break a few months down the line anyway).
let me know if you're really interested in selling it, and for how much. as an honest guy, i would hope you wouldn't try to sell it for a lot of money since it's obviously a habitually defective product.
(then again, some might argue that if there was an undiscovered problem before, Apple has probably figured it out and fixed it so your new MB will run for quite some time, but what the hell do they know....)
What's disturbing about this is that it hits *new* iBooks, not well-used iBooks. Normal wear and tear is one thing, and laptops certainly have shorter lifespands than desktops. But I haven't heard anyone mention a 1-2 year old iBook getting this bug.
Still, I'm not leaving Apple. Yes, it sucks to pay a poor-design tax (AppleCare), but I've more than gotten my money's worth out of OSX and my iBook already. I've been asking it to do stuff that otherwise might call for a dedicated workstation-server combo with expensive eproprietary software - but open source and my little iBook are handling it just fine. And this might sound a little pathetic, but it's just so damn functional when it's working that I might not mind it breaking every six months (but hoping it never does again).
What's disturbing about this is that it hits *new* iBooks, not well-used iBooks. Normal wear and tear is one thing, and laptops certainly have shorter lifespands than desktops. But I haven't heard anyone mention a 1-2 year old iBook getting this bug.
How is that disturbing? Apple makes lemons. Lemons don't last very long. You don't hear about 2-year old lemons because, well, any complaining would have been done 2 years ago.
As of today I believe I have decided to never again make another apple purchase. I talked to apple directly today over the phone and I wish to communicate how that process went.
Apple believes that they do nothing wrong. When you talk with one of their employees they are good at reading a script of how apple does no wrong.
I asked for 2 years of AppleCare at no cost as I explained to them that I have only 3 months left on the iBook and I have read countless reports of people having the same problem I had after as few as 3 months etc. Apple tried to tell me they have no problems on record with the iBook and the "logic board" I call it the Motherboard. I told them I have read on the Apple website of many with problems with the iBook with this exact issue of the MB and they said that is all rumor. I said "Rumor"???? it is on your own site... He said.. Well many don't like apple and will post false reports.
Ladies and gents... Apple does not trust their own customers... They dismiss any complaints of apple products as "rumors". Sickening... I said I have discussed this issue on a discussion board and come across many if not most of the iBook users who admit to the same exact problem with their iBooks. Apple agains said "Apple does not address rumors"
So Apple does not believe the iBook has a real problem. That I am a rare case. I asked... I said "If I am a rare case and you have confidense in your product why then can not apple give me 2 years of AppleCare for no cost?
"We are not set up to do that" he said.
"We treat all of our customers the same and we do not make exceptions".
The bottom line is this:
I am upset at apple for not simply giving me 2 years of AppleCare on this defective product of theirs. I can stomache if the thing is rendered useless after 3 years of life. It is a high price to pay but I can accept that. But to have a defective product with only 3 months left under warrenty after paying a premium for an apple laptop I can not stomach. If it breaks one more time within days of the expiration of the one year warrenty then I am left high and dry. I think that is shameful for a company who charges such a premium for their product that they can not provide service on or stand behind their defective products. If it was a rare case I would not worry about a future failure. As it is common I simply wish for the applecare service for 2 additional years. I bought many devices around this system. iPod, Air Port, etc. and after such an investment for Apple to leave me with 3 months left on an expensive entry level laptop is shameful. It is clear apple has a serious problem with the design of the iBook. My experience with my iBook is a very common problem with apple. They do not admit to such.
Where this leaves me..
While just weeks ago I started to entertain the idea of getting a a new tower from Apple with a 23 inch Flat panel display, I now in light of my iBook breaking will have to see how Apple will or will not take care of me. I may not spend a single cent on Apple EVER again.
If I have to leave apple I will let everyone know what happened with me. Word of mouth will be negative from my testimony.
After spending what I have on my apple toys including the iPod and Airport etc. I hope apple will take care of me by providing the AppleCare for 2 more years.
If they don't I will sell the iBook and be done with apple.
Comments
does it boot up with the firewire symbol, or with weird lines again?
booting and holding the T key pretty much boots nothing from the system, so any sotware craps would be avoided.
sounds like hardware to me though. MB or perhaps the video cable between the MB and LCD has cracked/broken.
have you tried with an external monitor yet as someone above suggested?
Thanks for your feedback
Fellowship
<strong>
1) Memory. If the memory was totally stuffed, the computer would beep at you. If it was mildly stuffed, you would expect it to partly start up. Or start up then crash at some point.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The screen problems would suggest that system memory is not the problem, but then again, it can't be ruled out. The window server can use a lot of RAM, and if it tries to access a portion of bad RAM...
[quote]2) Hard Disk Drive. A corrupted portion of the HDD does not induce that kind of scrambling. The computer would simply not work at such an early stage at boot. I also imagine that FCiB has tried a CD.<hr></blockquote>
The disk could have been corrupted where the video driver is written. Attempting to reinstall on a bad disk would probably cause a lock-up down the road.
[quote]3) CPU. If this was stuffed, it wouldn't turn on.<hr></blockquote>
This is where you're completely wrong. I had an old JoeCard G4 upgrade that was taller than most other upgrade cards. As a result the spring clip put too much pressure on the core. A very small portion of the corner actually chipped off, but it still booted up and ran just fine...for a while, until I did something specific that would hard-lock the machine.
[quote]4) OS. Similar to HDD.<hr></blockquote>
The video driver could have been corrupted.
[quote]5) Power issue. When the graphics chip doesn't get enough power, you would expect mild corruption.<hr></blockquote>
Possible.
[quote]6) LCD. It's possible I guess, but I've never heard of major scrambling cause by the LCD.<hr></blockquote>
Imagine what whould happen to a desktop LCD if two of the twenty-four pins on a DVI connection were to cross...or if one or a couple were to short...
[quote]We are left with the MLB (in this case the graphics chip). It's something I personally see as well as hear about often. Sometimes graphics chips die. In fact too much of the time. It's a tad disturbing how CPUs can be so reliable, but GPUs are not. The chip is fried some how, and screwing up the data as it reaches the VRAM.<hr></blockquote>
We aren't left with anything. I'd let the Apple hardware techs diagnose it CPUs are every bit as unreliable as GPUs. They're very similar. Try overclocking sometime...you may think even a tiny overclock is reliable, but when you start doing complex math in you'll start getting rounding errors and such.
That's true, but 9 out of 10 times, what reaches the bad RAM will be an application, not the textures being rendered. At start up, there is no window server. BootX passes bitmap data to the native framebuffer. At such an early stage, with such stuffed memory, you would expect zilch to work.
The disk could have been corrupted where the video driver is written. Attempting to reinstall on a bad disk would probably cause a lock-up down the road.
Mac OS X is a strict as hell OS. When the video driver has a problem, it turns off the video.
This is where you're completely wrong. I had an old JoeCard G4 upgrade that was taller than most other upgrade cards. As a result the spring clip put too much pressure on the core. A very small portion of the corner actually chipped off, but it still booted up and ran just fine...for a while, until I did something specific that would hard-lock the machine.
That's quite amazing. Possible I guess, but amazing that it still partially worked, being the complex beast it is. But it wouldn't matter whether it was the GPU or the CPU, it's still the MLB (motherboard).
Imagine what whould happen to a desktop LCD if two of the twenty-four pins on a DVI connection were to cross...or if one or a couple were to short...
The it probably wouldn't work. A laptop LCD is different from a desktop LCD. The controlling circutry is on the MLB, and the signals go straight to the pixels. But you are right, it could be that cable.
We aren't left with anything. I'd let the Apple hardware techs diagnose it CPUs are every bit as unreliable as GPUs. They're very similar. Try overclocking sometime...you may think even a tiny overclock is reliable, but when you start doing complex math in you'll start getting rounding errors and such.
You obviously arn't a service technician yourself then if you belive that GPUs are as reliable as CPUs. And you obviously arn't a service technician if you believe tiny overclocks cause rounding errors. CPUs don't have a set clock speed. There is no reason there should be errors when they are overclocked a bit (how much depends on the CPU). You well get errors when you overclock it past what it can take *cough*Pentium 3 1.13GHz*cough*, but I just don't see what the hell you're arguing here.
Maybe FCiB should listen to people who have technical experience in diagnosing and fixing Macs.
Barto
<strong>Fellowship, I had exactly the same thing happen to my iBook about a month ago. It was six months old at the time, and the problem presented itself *precisely* as you described it. After two minutes on the phone with an Apple tech they had me ship it back for a motherboard replacement. I had it back in my hands on the seventh day after my call (three of which were a holiday weekend) and it's worked flawlessly since ([knock knock] on wood). Good service, good outcome, but I'll be buying extended AppleCare. I wonder if Apple's been able to find or fix the flaw that causes this. The boards at info.apple.discussions.com are nearly chock full of people reporting identical problems in new iBooks.</strong><hr></blockquote>
So in your case it was the motherboard?
Also if it is not too hard for you to find could you post a link to the boards on the apple site you mention?
Thank you,
Fellowship
[ 03-17-2003: Message edited by: FellowshipChurch iBook ]</p>
Click through to the iBook page, then check out the Dual USB forums. People variously post these problems under Display and Usage.
<a href="http://discussions.info.apple.com/[email protected]@.3bc01f89"; target="_blank">A sample thread.</a>
It was my motherboard; after that (along with the CD-ROM, which had been a little unbalanced) was replaced by Apple service, it works great again. Most people with a similar problem report the motherboard being replaced.
...that is, after they installed a 700 MHz iBook motherboard into my 800 MHz iBook and had to repeat the exercise!
(grrrr...)
You obviously arn't a service technician yourself then if you belive that GPUs are as reliable as CPUs. And you obviously arn't a service technician if you believe tiny overclocks cause rounding errors. CPUs don't have a set clock speed. There is no reason there should be errors when they are overclocked a bit (how much depends on the CPU). You well get errors when you overclock it past what it can take *cough*Pentium 3 1.13GHz*cough*, but I just don't see what the hell you're arguing here.<hr></blockquote>
I have plenty of experience in QA for both hardware and software. I'm sure most engineers will admit that CPUs today suffer from much strict tolerances out of necessity. We're talking 2 and 3 GHz parts vs <500 MHz parts. With the notable exception of the new GeForce FX 5800 Ultra, the chips themselves are quite happily cooled by meager heatsink/fan combinations. My Radeon 8500 runs fine with a broken fan, for example. Try running an Athlon XP without a fan on even the largest Thermalright SLK-900 heatsink. The chips from ATi and nVidia themselves are very reliable. It's the rest of the components that are pushing the limits. Remember, these cards are running FAST DDR memory and even DDR-2 memory. They're also more frequently user installed. A zillion things can be attrtibuted to high failure rates. Take the ATi cards for example... the lower end "Built by ATi" cards are manufactured by Sapphire (based in Hong Kong) with fabs in China. Those cards fail more often than their high-end counterparts which are manufactured in Markham, Ontario, Canada. Take cheap motherboards like FICs and ECSs and compare them to Tyan and Asus. Which will fail more often? You're mistaking entire graphics cards for the individual chips.
And this really has nothing to do with the original topic. You were too quick to assume it's simply a motherboard issue. It very well could be, but that's because most of the hardware is built-in.
And yes, my P4 2.4B starts reporting rounding errors in Prime95 with a meager overclock to 2.78 GHz.
And the incidence of failed graphics systems v failed CPU systems in Macs is probably about 15:1. Maybe Apple makes 1/2 a crappy motherboard, and 1/2 a good motherboard. But I doubt it.
CPUs have to get it right 100% of the time. Graphics chips don't. I wouldn't mind betting that's the reason graphics chips fail more often.
Barto
[ 03-17-2003: Message edited by: Barto ]</p>
<strong>380MHz isn't a tiny overclock.
And the incidence of failed graphics systems v failed CPU systems in Macs is probably about 15:1. Maybe Apple makes 1/2 a crappy motherboard, and 1/2 a good motherboard. But I doubt it.
CPUs have to get it right 100% of the time. Graphics chips don't. I wouldn't mind betting that's the reason graphics chips fail more often.
Barto</strong><hr></blockquote>
380 MHz for a 2.4B is a meager overclock for the typical OC'er. Most people are quite happy running theirs at ~3 GHz. More proof you don't know what you're talking about. And they're perfectly fine with the fact that Prime95 will just fail to run completely, or that RC5 results will be inaccurate or whatever. As long as the core applications important to them work within acceptable parameters. Graphics chips also have to work 100% of the time.
Maybe it's the fact that the graphics subsystems change all the time. Apple's ICs change all the time. Apple also has to make the same choices of components like RAM, capacitors, resistors, etc. Not all of these components are equal...Witness the electrolyte formula scandal that was brought to the public recently.
So again, I'm going to have to beat into your head that the graphics subsystem is not the graphics chip. The reliability problems do not lie with the chips themselves.
[ 03-17-2003: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
<strong>Happened to mine about three weeks ago. New motherboard and all is OK....
...that is, after they installed a 700 MHz iBook motherboard into my 800 MHz iBook and had to repeat the exercise!
(grrrr...)</strong><hr></blockquote>
Looks like my question of apple "quality" was a valid one indeed.
I think I have made my last apple purchase until at least I can get a better sense that the company cares about designing something that might actually last.
If this is the motherboard on my ibook I will just sell the thing. I am not going to go every 6 to 9 months having the motherboard go out.
I have had such a share of headaches with apple. First with their OSX and now with their hardware.
Look here on this thread.. Three iBook users and three ibooks that did not last without major problems. Mine after only 9 months. Towel after 6 months and the other I am not sure how long.
Three out of three none the less..
Apple sucks
Let's say I was stupid and kept the apple crap. Would I not then get to look forward to this:
[quote]<strong>my ibook is about a year and a half old. after about 10 months i sent it in and they replaced the logic board for bizzare reasons that i will not go in to. as soon as it came out of warranty the hard drive started "disappearing" intermitently. it would freeze, then i'd restart, and it couldn't find the hard drive. if i booted off a firewire drive it still couldn't "see" the internal hard drive. it would only be after physically moving the computer that i would sometimes recognize the drive again. i'm thinking it's a loose connector but my options now are limited. it's a real shame to have to pay extra for a respectable warranty.
<hr></blockquote></strong>
Taken from: <a href="http://discussions.info.apple.com/[email protected]@.3bc01f89"; target="_blank">A sample thread.</a>
Enough is enough with this.
Fellowship
[ 03-17-2003: Message edited by: FellowshipChurch iBook ]</p>
FCiB, let's say you are stupid, and you are. Think about it for a second. Then read the link in the middle of this post.
Laptops in general are more prone to failure due to their heavily integrated and mobile nature. Not only will they be more susceptible to environmental hazards, they're more likely to be a hassle to fix too.
After 2 years, my sister's VAIO laptop's left-side shift key failed. It also wouldn't charge any batteries. Has she shrugged off Sony's forever? No.
It goes with the territory.
They just ran a story on this. You must have missed it. Laptops reportedly have a 1% chance of failure for a given month. That's 12% after one year, 36% after three years. <a href="http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid={613D2CD4-57E7-495F-87BD- 9068D0ECA1D4%7D&siteid=mktw" target="_blank">Read this</a> before you do anything silly.
"The industry is averaging, for good notebooks, a failure rate of 1 percent per month,"-- or a 36 percent in a three-year period, said Formichelli, who helped develop IBM's (IBM: news, chart, profile) Think Pad. "If you get under that, you're stretching the laws of physics, yet that's so much better than five years ago in the notebook business, when we were at 4 percent a month.
You go with another laptop from any other manufacturer and you'll run into the same phenomenon. ThinkPads have reputations for being indestructible, and here tthey are admitting they get 1%/month failure rates.
Apple (AAPL: news, chart, profile), which had the marginally best, three-year repair rating from Consumer Reports, was the most guarded about what contributes to its failure rate.
The rule of thumb is you definitely buy AppleCare for laptops, though it probbaly isn't necessary for desktops. 1-year warranties are the standard for Gateway, Sony, IBM and HP.
[ 03-17-2003: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
seeing that that's the most likely scenario, i'd be willing to take if off your hands for a modest price (seeing as it will just break a few months down the line anyway).
let me know if you're really interested in selling it, and for how much. as an honest guy, i would hope you wouldn't try to sell it for a lot of money since it's obviously a habitually defective product.
(then again, some might argue that if there was an undiscovered problem before, Apple has probably figured it out and fixed it so your new MB will run for quite some time, but what the hell do they know....)
Still, I'm not leaving Apple. Yes, it sucks to pay a poor-design tax (AppleCare), but I've more than gotten my money's worth out of OSX and my iBook already. I've been asking it to do stuff that otherwise might call for a dedicated workstation-server combo with expensive eproprietary software - but open source and my little iBook are handling it just fine. And this might sound a little pathetic, but it's just so damn functional when it's working that I might not mind it breaking every six months (but hoping it never does again).
Originally posted by Towel
What's disturbing about this is that it hits *new* iBooks, not well-used iBooks. Normal wear and tear is one thing, and laptops certainly have shorter lifespands than desktops. But I haven't heard anyone mention a 1-2 year old iBook getting this bug.
How is that disturbing? Apple makes lemons. Lemons don't last very long. You don't hear about 2-year old lemons because, well, any complaining would have been done 2 years ago.
As of today I believe I have decided to never again make another apple purchase. I talked to apple directly today over the phone and I wish to communicate how that process went.
Apple believes that they do nothing wrong. When you talk with one of their employees they are good at reading a script of how apple does no wrong.
I asked for 2 years of AppleCare at no cost as I explained to them that I have only 3 months left on the iBook and I have read countless reports of people having the same problem I had after as few as 3 months etc. Apple tried to tell me they have no problems on record with the iBook and the "logic board" I call it the Motherboard. I told them I have read on the Apple website of many with problems with the iBook with this exact issue of the MB and they said that is all rumor. I said "Rumor"???? it is on your own site... He said.. Well many don't like apple and will post false reports.
Ladies and gents... Apple does not trust their own customers... They dismiss any complaints of apple products as "rumors". Sickening... I said I have discussed this issue on a discussion board and come across many if not most of the iBook users who admit to the same exact problem with their iBooks. Apple agains said "Apple does not address rumors"
So Apple does not believe the iBook has a real problem. That I am a rare case. I asked... I said "If I am a rare case and you have confidense in your product why then can not apple give me 2 years of AppleCare for no cost?
"We are not set up to do that" he said.
"We treat all of our customers the same and we do not make exceptions".
The bottom line is this:
I am upset at apple for not simply giving me 2 years of AppleCare on this defective product of theirs. I can stomache if the thing is rendered useless after 3 years of life. It is a high price to pay but I can accept that. But to have a defective product with only 3 months left under warrenty after paying a premium for an apple laptop I can not stomach. If it breaks one more time within days of the expiration of the one year warrenty then I am left high and dry. I think that is shameful for a company who charges such a premium for their product that they can not provide service on or stand behind their defective products. If it was a rare case I would not worry about a future failure. As it is common I simply wish for the applecare service for 2 additional years. I bought many devices around this system. iPod, Air Port, etc. and after such an investment for Apple to leave me with 3 months left on an expensive entry level laptop is shameful. It is clear apple has a serious problem with the design of the iBook. My experience with my iBook is a very common problem with apple. They do not admit to such.
Where this leaves me..
While just weeks ago I started to entertain the idea of getting a a new tower from Apple with a 23 inch Flat panel display, I now in light of my iBook breaking will have to see how Apple will or will not take care of me. I may not spend a single cent on Apple EVER again.
If I have to leave apple I will let everyone know what happened with me. Word of mouth will be negative from my testimony.
After spending what I have on my apple toys including the iPod and Airport etc. I hope apple will take care of me by providing the AppleCare for 2 more years.
If they don't I will sell the iBook and be done with apple.
Fellowship