FCiBook, don't post things in response to me when you don't answer the questions I pose.
Quotes are from your last posting
"I will sell the iBook when I get it back. I will sell it on Ebay and feel sorry for who ever ends up with it."
I am also curious--if you consider it such a defective machine as all this, I hope you will be informing the eBay buyers. Will you?
"I will shut up about my iBook but I just have to wonder what the actual repair rate is on the iBooks."
Well, we all wonder--but given that there is no recall, no yelling from CNET or the mainstream press, I suspect it is around the industry average of 1%/month, or 12% a year.
"I am simply upset that apple in the case of the current iBooks have a product that lasts only 1 year due to warrenty."
That's the industry standard--fine to think it inadequate, and I agree that I'd like it to be longer, but you probably won't find other computer makers who give multiple year warranties for free.
"Without the 1 year warrenty it would have only lasted 9 months. With others only 3 or 6 months."
That's an odd arguement--I mean, that's *why* it has a warranty. A lot of failures happen in the first few weeks of using any computer--it doesn't make the average lifetime of those machines 3 weeks.
Even companies heralded for their service options like Dell don't offer 'free' 3-year warranties. By default, if you order a machine on Dell.com, they automatically choose the 3-year option for you. You can downconfigure to cheaper option however...
fellowship, hate to say it but you're acting....oddly on this one.
do you really think that whatever was wrong won't get fixed?
sure, if there are 10,000 repairs there are some that won't work. know who's going to bitch about their repair? those 10 people who's repairs didn't work. what's going to happen? you're going to read about 10 out of 10 people having terrible experiences.
good experiences don't get people worked up enough to bother telling everyone about it.
if you're selling this iBook because you think it's going to break again, i think you're being foolish. if you're selling it because you didn't get 2 free years of applecare, you're really being foolish. what exactly are you unhappy about? your machine is covered. something broke. they fix it for free. at what point in there did you get screwed over?
as a side note, ever since people have started buying laptops, i have told EVERYONE, EVER, NO MATTER WHAT BRAND, to buy a 3 year warrenty.
why?
laptops break. they always have, they always will, for a wide variety of reasons.
please post a link to your e-bay auction when you put it up though, i'd love to get my hands on this iBook. as far as i'm concerned, it will be in close to mint condition. i would have 0 qualms about buying it.
at my job i research and purchase more computers and computer hardware in a month than most people do in a lifetime. (murbot excluded)
this is how it works, no matter what brand you buy. if you buy another brand and it happens to not break, that's great. but your product has the same 1% failure rate per month as that apple did. trust me, our department's iBooks and Powerbooks go in for repairs less often than the Dells that are bought, and are more likely to get fixed the first time they're sent in.
Fellowship, your iBook broke under its 1 year warranty. You have every right to be upset. But what you're entitled to is a free repair. If you want 2 additional years of Applecare, you need to pay for it--just like everyone else does.
I hate to bring up the tired car analogy...but if your car requires a major repair toward the end of its warranty period which the dealer fixes for free, are you again going to demand they extend your warranty for free? And, when they refuse, are you again going to sell your car, swearing never to buy from that auto manufacturer again?
Fellowship, your iBook broke under its 1 year warranty. You have every right to be upset. But what you're entitled to is a free repair. If you want 2 additional years of Applecare, you need to pay for it--just like everyone else does.
I hate to bring up the tired car analogy...but if your car requires a major repair toward the end of its warranty period which the dealer fixes for free, are you again going to demand they extend your warranty for free? And, when they refuse, are you again going to sell your car, swearing never to buy from that auto manufacturer again?
I do not have any growing up to do my friend. I give testimony good or bad on all things. I tip when I go out to eat as I see fit. If I get good service I tip good. If I get bad service I do not tip at all. If I get superior service I tip accordingly.
Same with word of mouth. When I say I will let everyone know I am not talking about here on AI. I am talking about those who ask me about my iBook from this day forward.
Fellowship
sorry to hear that your iBook needed service, it's hard to remain confident in the product afterwards...
...but i gotta point out that not tipping for bad service is certainly NOT tipping accordingly...BAD service earns a BAD tip, not a complete lack of tip (which "accordingly" should be given for a complete lack of service, i.e. you had to expedite your own food)...i'm sure the same goes for word of mouth
..luckily, the Karma Police got to your iBook under warranty, so for anyone buying your iBook - AppleCare can still be purchased AND cancelled at anytime during the 2 yrs after for a prorated refund of your $250
sorry, i meant that you can cancel your AppleCare anytime and get some of your money back...it's in the fine print
this leads to a good bargaining tip: shopping at say CompUSA, you can have AppleCare thrown in and you are given 30 days after purchase to accept or decline the service...if you decline you get the retail price of AppleCare refunded to you from Apple.
I agree that Fellowship is being unreasonable here. A problem during the warranty period does not normally further extend the warranty. If it did, warranties would be endless. While we all would like endless free warranties on our products, it is just not realistic in the real world.
Good luck with your future PC computer Fellowship - and have fun with Windoze - my own experience was terrible with them, but has been great with Apple.
Fellowship, your iBook broke under its 1 year warranty. You have every right to be upset. But what you're entitled to is a free repair. If you want 2 additional years of Applecare, you need to pay for it--just like everyone else does.
I hate to bring up the tired car analogy...but if your car requires a major repair toward the end of its warranty period which the dealer fixes for free, are you again going to demand they extend your warranty for free? And, when they refuse, are you again going to sell your car, swearing never to buy from that auto manufacturer again?
There is a simple difference.
Every Car I have had has lasted far beyond the warrenty period without a hitch.
If for example if I had my Dodge Truck and I read reports of many others having their transmission go out at 10,000 miles I would be unhappy with Dodge. If the warrenty period was for let's say 12,000 miles and it is well known that Dodge has a design problem with the transmission at on average 10,000 miles give or take failure happens I think I would look at the competition.
With a laptop if you would read other cases of iBook owners you will find that some have the motherboard go out after as little as 3 months, some 6 months, some like mine 9 months.
I EXPECT A LAPTOP TO LAST MORE THAN 3, 6, or 9 months.
Forget what the warrenty is an Apple Laptop should last at least three years without a MB failure. Is that so much to ask. I bought the thing with that expectation and I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation.
Back to my Dodge Truck I have a 10 year 70,000 mile warrenty on it. That is a great warrenty for a vehicle.
For apple a one year warrenty on the iBook is only good if you plan on keeping and using the iBook for only one year due to the fact the things are prone to fail prior to that.
Shame on Apple for having a short lived product that they do not recall and fix the problem that is the issue here.
Shame on the arrogant company who does no wrong.
I asked apple what caused the (logicboard) Motherboard to fail. Apple: "We don't know"
Heat related? did it crack? Apple: "we don't know"
I ask apple has apple changed anything with the design of the MB they are putting in at this point. "We don't know but Apple has no reported problems with the iBook"
No reported problems... Take your head out of the sand apple.
Quote:
Apple doesn't. They offer a 12-month warranty, knowing that the laws of probability tell them that the MTBF (Mean Time Between Failure) on their components means that only a relatively small proportion of their computers are likely to be affected because a worker went out to lunch. But hardware problems after 12 months means customers get angry. Very angry. Angry enough to buy a Dell and never come back to Apple, because Dell assure them that they'll come 'round to their place, pick up their Wintel slab, and fix it for them in record time.
Why is this Important?
Quality is important to Apple as the company seeks to differentiate itself from its Wintel competitors in a number of ways. When people pay high prices for equipment, they don't merely expect a superior user experience, but superior quality as well. To draw the automotive analogy again: no matter how good Jaguars' ride, and how good the leather smelt, nobody bought them while they were built by British Leyland in the 1970s and early '80s in a place the company labelled "Large Car Plant # 2". When the quality went up, the buyers flocked back. To put it another way, you wouldn't buy a new BMW with bits that fell off it, now would you?.
haha im talking about applecare, not the computer...
and i would think that because i can't actually USE apple care until a year after my purchase anyway (90 days on telephone support)
Maryland won tonight so i'm in a good mood...
the point is no matter how reasonable your assumption sounds , please READ THE FINE PRINT
Apple clearly explains their limits on everything...
there is a diagnostic disc included w/ AppleCare that you can use from day 1, it's not merely a longer warranty...lots of fine print, go to Apple's site all your questions will be answered.
If you want a 2 years warranty for your computer hardware, purchase your computers the next time in Europe. Pay 30 - 50 % more for the Apple hardware, but then get legally the "free" 2 years warranty.
Wait ... first you complain how your Mac doesn't work and then in the signature I still see you are selling it?
Well, all I can gather from Fellowships last post, it seems to me someone is just P*ssed off and not thinking straight(it happens). he uses the car analogy.. well, he said he would read up before buying the truck and if he had read there were problems, he wouldn't get one.. WELL, did you do the same with the Ibook? Most Ibooks do NOT have this problem, do you realize how many they sold? what would happen if you did buy the dodge, and had it for lets say 2 years, and put 71000 on it, and the engine blew.. Well, guess what, you are passed the warranty on it, and you would be screwed. Now, if it had 69000 miles on it, and they replaced the engine, would you expect them to extent the warranty again for another 70000 miles??
I EXPECT A LAPTOP TO LAST MORE THAN 3, 6, or 9 months.
Then you have overinflated expectations for a computer. Computers are much more susceptible to damage than your average car under normal use.
Quote:
Forget what the warrenty is an Apple Laptop should last at least three years without a MB failure. Is that so much to ask. I bought the thing with that expectation and I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation.
It is. A motherboard can last a week or it can last decades. There's no way of knowing when it will fail.
Quote:
Shame on Apple for having a short lived product that they do not recall and fix the problem that is the issue here.
Shame on the arrogant company who does no wrong.
I asked apple what caused the (logicboard) Motherboard to fail. Apple: "We don't know"
Heat related? did it crack? Apple: "we don't know"
I ask apple has apple changed anything with the design of the MB they are putting in at this point. "We don't know but Apple has no reported problems with the iBook"
No reported problems... Take your head out of the sand apple.
Gahhhh. I normally don't get this vitriolic but... damn, this is wrong on so many levels.
How the hell can Apple tell you what went wrong with the MB, when the tech you're talking to has never seen it to diagnose the failure?
You don't like the fact that Apple won't admit to a problem with their MBs? For one thing, maybe they're still analyzing the reports, to see what's going on. But, one thing is for sure: most electronics companies have a policy that "There are no 'Known Issues' with our product until a recall is issued."
Flat out. Any technician who tells you, "Oh, sure, we know that's a problem," is going to lose their job. I used to work for Dell's tech support, and they do the same thing.
Why? To avoid lawsuits. If they take the time to analyze the problem, get a solution in place, and then issue a recall/repair statement, everything's fine. If they start saying it's a 'known issue', customers will begin making demands before the company has a solution in place. And then the lawsuits start flying.
I'm sorry, Fellowship, but this is how the computer industry as a whole operates. This is not atypical behavior on Apple's part. I can understand your frustration, and I don't blame you for avoiding iBooks in the near future. But some of your comments are just way off-base.
*sigh* I hope that wasn't too confrontational. But I've dealt with several customers (in person and on the phone) who feel this way, and refuse to see the other half of what's going on. It's terribly frustrating, when I just wanted to help them get their machine fixed.
I spend all my days dealing with these sorts of situations: complex electro-mechanical systems that have at least a thousand mechanical components to go wrong (usually diagnosable at a component level), and a good few million electronic components to go wrong (rarely diagnosable below board level).
I've been watching this thread, and I have to say, Fellowship, I think you're over-reacting. Shit happens: components fail. I've seen thousand-dollar circuit boards fail within 15 minutes of installation, despite the fact that I know we have a good few hundred thousand identical boards that have worked perfectly for years.
Do I cry off?
Do I say "oh, no, these boards are all crap, I can't possibly deal with this"?
Do I immediately recommend that the device be condemned because this one failure immediately means it will definitely suffer the same problem in the future?
No.
I accept that the risk of failure is exponentially increased by the complexity of the system you're dealing with, and that the odds aren't any different with a new component.
By necessity, computer circuit boards are highly complex, and nature of the requirement of a laptop's motherboard to occupy as little space as possible, it pushes the boundaries harder in terms of component density and heat dissipation. The motherboard in my Cube has probably twice the area of that in my PowerBook and has the benefit of much greater cooling, a daughtercard for the processor and a separate graphics card. iBooks ain't much different.
For every "my computer broke" story there are millions of "my computer works perfectly, so I don't have to bitch about it" equivalents that you just won't hear.
Get it foxed, see how it goes: if you get the same failure in 9 months time, fair enough, but getting hysterical over one failure is beyond the pale. And getting upset retrospectively over insurance (which is what Applecare really is)... please.
Comments
Quotes are from your last posting
"I will sell the iBook when I get it back. I will sell it on Ebay and feel sorry for who ever ends up with it."
I am also curious--if you consider it such a defective machine as all this, I hope you will be informing the eBay buyers. Will you?
"I will shut up about my iBook but I just have to wonder what the actual repair rate is on the iBooks."
Well, we all wonder--but given that there is no recall, no yelling from CNET or the mainstream press, I suspect it is around the industry average of 1%/month, or 12% a year.
"I am simply upset that apple in the case of the current iBooks have a product that lasts only 1 year due to warrenty."
That's the industry standard--fine to think it inadequate, and I agree that I'd like it to be longer, but you probably won't find other computer makers who give multiple year warranties for free.
"Without the 1 year warrenty it would have only lasted 9 months. With others only 3 or 6 months."
That's an odd arguement--I mean, that's *why* it has a warranty. A lot of failures happen in the first few weeks of using any computer--it doesn't make the average lifetime of those machines 3 weeks.
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
Ahhh for you BR I will make ya a Great Deal
Let's just make it an even stephen $2,000
LOL!
Fellows
Hah. No, seriously. How much you want for it?
do you really think that whatever was wrong won't get fixed?
sure, if there are 10,000 repairs there are some that won't work. know who's going to bitch about their repair? those 10 people who's repairs didn't work. what's going to happen? you're going to read about 10 out of 10 people having terrible experiences.
good experiences don't get people worked up enough to bother telling everyone about it.
if you're selling this iBook because you think it's going to break again, i think you're being foolish. if you're selling it because you didn't get 2 free years of applecare, you're really being foolish. what exactly are you unhappy about? your machine is covered. something broke. they fix it for free. at what point in there did you get screwed over?
as a side note, ever since people have started buying laptops, i have told EVERYONE, EVER, NO MATTER WHAT BRAND, to buy a 3 year warrenty.
why?
laptops break. they always have, they always will, for a wide variety of reasons.
please post a link to your e-bay auction when you put it up though, i'd love to get my hands on this iBook. as far as i'm concerned, it will be in close to mint condition. i would have 0 qualms about buying it.
at my job i research and purchase more computers and computer hardware in a month than most people do in a lifetime. (murbot excluded)
this is how it works, no matter what brand you buy. if you buy another brand and it happens to not break, that's great. but your product has the same 1% failure rate per month as that apple did. trust me, our department's iBooks and Powerbooks go in for repairs less often than the Dells that are bought, and are more likely to get fixed the first time they're sent in.
I hate to bring up the tired car analogy...but if your car requires a major repair toward the end of its warranty period which the dealer fixes for free, are you again going to demand they extend your warranty for free? And, when they refuse, are you again going to sell your car, swearing never to buy from that auto manufacturer again?
Originally posted by jesperas
Fellowship, your iBook broke under its 1 year warranty. You have every right to be upset. But what you're entitled to is a free repair. If you want 2 additional years of Applecare, you need to pay for it--just like everyone else does.
I hate to bring up the tired car analogy...but if your car requires a major repair toward the end of its warranty period which the dealer fixes for free, are you again going to demand they extend your warranty for free? And, when they refuse, are you again going to sell your car, swearing never to buy from that auto manufacturer again?
Well, Fellowship would.
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
I do not have any growing up to do my friend. I give testimony good or bad on all things. I tip when I go out to eat as I see fit. If I get good service I tip good. If I get bad service I do not tip at all. If I get superior service I tip accordingly.
Same with word of mouth. When I say I will let everyone know I am not talking about here on AI. I am talking about those who ask me about my iBook from this day forward.
Fellowship
sorry to hear that your iBook needed service, it's hard to remain confident in the product afterwards...
...but i gotta point out that not tipping for bad service is certainly NOT tipping accordingly...BAD service earns a BAD tip, not a complete lack of tip (which "accordingly" should be given for a complete lack of service, i.e. you had to expedite your own food)...i'm sure the same goes for word of mouth
..luckily, the Karma Police got to your iBook under warranty, so for anyone buying your iBook - AppleCare can still be purchased AND cancelled at anytime during the 2 yrs after for a prorated refund of your $250
Originally posted by iDebaser
AND cancelled at anytime during the 2 yrs after for a prorated refund of your $250
2 years?
cancelled?
please explain...
Originally posted by Paul
2 years?
cancelled?
please explain...
sorry, i meant that you can cancel your AppleCare anytime and get some of your money back...it's in the fine print
this leads to a good bargaining tip: shopping at say CompUSA, you can have AppleCare thrown in and you are given 30 days after purchase to accept or decline the service...if you decline you get the retail price of AppleCare refunded to you from Apple.
Originally posted by Paul
cool, shouldn't i be able to keep it for a year (90 days at the least) w/o being penalized for returning it?
umm, where did you get that idea?
looks like this thread has become: what we think Apple should cover and what Apple actually covers
time to read the fine print...
you have...wait, i'm not gonna explain this, it's friday night!...see above
and i would think that because i can't actually USE apple care until a year after my purchase anyway (90 days on telephone support)
Good luck with your future PC computer Fellowship - and have fun with Windoze - my own experience was terrible with them, but has been great with Apple.
Originally posted by jesperas
Fellowship, your iBook broke under its 1 year warranty. You have every right to be upset. But what you're entitled to is a free repair. If you want 2 additional years of Applecare, you need to pay for it--just like everyone else does.
I hate to bring up the tired car analogy...but if your car requires a major repair toward the end of its warranty period which the dealer fixes for free, are you again going to demand they extend your warranty for free? And, when they refuse, are you again going to sell your car, swearing never to buy from that auto manufacturer again?
There is a simple difference.
Every Car I have had has lasted far beyond the warrenty period without a hitch.
If for example if I had my Dodge Truck and I read reports of many others having their transmission go out at 10,000 miles I would be unhappy with Dodge. If the warrenty period was for let's say 12,000 miles and it is well known that Dodge has a design problem with the transmission at on average 10,000 miles give or take failure happens I think I would look at the competition.
With a laptop if you would read other cases of iBook owners you will find that some have the motherboard go out after as little as 3 months, some 6 months, some like mine 9 months.
I EXPECT A LAPTOP TO LAST MORE THAN 3, 6, or 9 months.
Forget what the warrenty is an Apple Laptop should last at least three years without a MB failure. Is that so much to ask. I bought the thing with that expectation and I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation.
Back to my Dodge Truck I have a 10 year 70,000 mile warrenty on it. That is a great warrenty for a vehicle.
For apple a one year warrenty on the iBook is only good if you plan on keeping and using the iBook for only one year due to the fact the things are prone to fail prior to that.
Shame on Apple for having a short lived product that they do not recall and fix the problem that is the issue here.
Shame on the arrogant company who does no wrong.
I asked apple what caused the (logicboard) Motherboard to fail. Apple: "We don't know"
Heat related? did it crack? Apple: "we don't know"
I ask apple has apple changed anything with the design of the MB they are putting in at this point. "We don't know but Apple has no reported problems with the iBook"
No reported problems... Take your head out of the sand apple.
Apple doesn't. They offer a 12-month warranty, knowing that the laws of probability tell them that the MTBF (Mean Time Between Failure) on their components means that only a relatively small proportion of their computers are likely to be affected because a worker went out to lunch. But hardware problems after 12 months means customers get angry. Very angry. Angry enough to buy a Dell and never come back to Apple, because Dell assure them that they'll come 'round to their place, pick up their Wintel slab, and fix it for them in record time.
Why is this Important?
Quality is important to Apple as the company seeks to differentiate itself from its Wintel competitors in a number of ways. When people pay high prices for equipment, they don't merely expect a superior user experience, but superior quality as well. To draw the automotive analogy again: no matter how good Jaguars' ride, and how good the leather smelt, nobody bought them while they were built by British Leyland in the 1970s and early '80s in a place the company labelled "Large Car Plant # 2". When the quality went up, the buyers flocked back. To put it another way, you wouldn't buy a new BMW with bits that fell off it, now would you?.
Link
Maybe if apple wishes they can have more lawsuits against them
Link
Too bad apple just can't live up to the reputation they once had and take care of their customers.
Fellowship
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
Blah blah blah blah blah blah
So how much for the damn iBook? I wouldn't mind taking it off your hands.
Originally posted by Paul
haha im talking about applecare, not the computer...
and i would think that because i can't actually USE apple care until a year after my purchase anyway (90 days on telephone support)
Maryland won tonight so i'm in a good mood...
the point is no matter how reasonable your assumption sounds , please READ THE FINE PRINT
Apple clearly explains their limits on everything...
there is a diagnostic disc included w/ AppleCare that you can use from day 1, it's not merely a longer warranty...lots of fine print, go to Apple's site all your questions will be answered.
Wait ... first you complain how your Mac doesn't work and then in the signature I still see you are selling it?
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
I EXPECT A LAPTOP TO LAST MORE THAN 3, 6, or 9 months.
Then you have overinflated expectations for a computer. Computers are much more susceptible to damage than your average car under normal use.
Forget what the warrenty is an Apple Laptop should last at least three years without a MB failure. Is that so much to ask. I bought the thing with that expectation and I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation.
It is. A motherboard can last a week or it can last decades. There's no way of knowing when it will fail.
Shame on Apple for having a short lived product that they do not recall and fix the problem that is the issue here.
Shame on the arrogant company who does no wrong.
I asked apple what caused the (logicboard) Motherboard to fail. Apple: "We don't know"
Heat related? did it crack? Apple: "we don't know"
I ask apple has apple changed anything with the design of the MB they are putting in at this point. "We don't know but Apple has no reported problems with the iBook"
No reported problems... Take your head out of the sand apple.
Gahhhh. I normally don't get this vitriolic but... damn, this is wrong on so many levels.
How the hell can Apple tell you what went wrong with the MB, when the tech you're talking to has never seen it to diagnose the failure?
You don't like the fact that Apple won't admit to a problem with their MBs? For one thing, maybe they're still analyzing the reports, to see what's going on. But, one thing is for sure: most electronics companies have a policy that "There are no 'Known Issues' with our product until a recall is issued."
Flat out. Any technician who tells you, "Oh, sure, we know that's a problem," is going to lose their job. I used to work for Dell's tech support, and they do the same thing.
Why? To avoid lawsuits. If they take the time to analyze the problem, get a solution in place, and then issue a recall/repair statement, everything's fine. If they start saying it's a 'known issue', customers will begin making demands before the company has a solution in place. And then the lawsuits start flying.
I'm sorry, Fellowship, but this is how the computer industry as a whole operates. This is not atypical behavior on Apple's part. I can understand your frustration, and I don't blame you for avoiding iBooks in the near future. But some of your comments are just way off-base.
*sigh* I hope that wasn't too confrontational. But I've dealt with several customers (in person and on the phone) who feel this way, and refuse to see the other half of what's going on. It's terribly frustrating, when I just wanted to help them get their machine fixed.
I've been watching this thread, and I have to say, Fellowship, I think you're over-reacting. Shit happens: components fail. I've seen thousand-dollar circuit boards fail within 15 minutes of installation, despite the fact that I know we have a good few hundred thousand identical boards that have worked perfectly for years.
Do I cry off?
Do I say "oh, no, these boards are all crap, I can't possibly deal with this"?
Do I immediately recommend that the device be condemned because this one failure immediately means it will definitely suffer the same problem in the future?
No.
I accept that the risk of failure is exponentially increased by the complexity of the system you're dealing with, and that the odds aren't any different with a new component.
By necessity, computer circuit boards are highly complex, and nature of the requirement of a laptop's motherboard to occupy as little space as possible, it pushes the boundaries harder in terms of component density and heat dissipation. The motherboard in my Cube has probably twice the area of that in my PowerBook and has the benefit of much greater cooling, a daughtercard for the processor and a separate graphics card. iBooks ain't much different.
For every "my computer broke" story there are millions of "my computer works perfectly, so I don't have to bitch about it" equivalents that you just won't hear.
Get it foxed, see how it goes: if you get the same failure in 9 months time, fair enough, but getting hysterical over one failure is beyond the pale. And getting upset retrospectively over insurance (which is what Applecare really is)... please.