The thing that bothered me the most was the fact that Mace Windu seemed to have an easier time with Palpatine than did Yoda. I would have thought that to not be the case. Though, I guess I could speculate that Palpatine set the trap to ultimately turn Anakin to the darkside and thus let Mace get so close to killing him....hmmmmmm
In one of the earlier movies there was a quote about Obi Wan Kenobi being "as wise as Yoda, and as powerful as Mace Windu" which implies that Mace Windu was perceived as being the superior fighter.
What bothered me about the fight between Yoda and the Palpatine was why would Yoda send Obi Wan after Anakin? Don't you think that anyone with half a brain would have kept Obi Wan at his side to fight Palpatine? Palpatine was the one taking over the Republic, he was the important one to stop. Anakin was just his lackey... Not the tactics you would expect from someone as "wise" as Yoda.
Not the tactics you would expect from someone as "wise" as Yoda.
Hey, he was around 900 years old at the time fer cryin' out loud.
--
I'm still not sure why the Jedi were so cool with fighting next to the clone army, knowing that the original order for them was made years before Palatine's "surprise" election to the Supreme Chancellor.
Don't tell me the Jedi were outnumbered so they needed them as allies to fight the confederates. You've got entire planets teeming with Republic civilians. Give 'em blasters and force them to serve to defend the Republic. Clones are trained and well armed but against sufficient numbers they would crumble. Wookiees know how to fight, so did the Gungans and Ewoks...
Have a question for you. When Yoda confronts Darth Sidious in his Senate office, he refers to Darth Sidious by name. When did Yoda learn of Darth Sidious's name? I can't seem to remember.
Have a question for you. When Yoda confronts Darth Sidious in his Senate office, he refers to Darth Sidious by name. When did Yoda learn of Darth Sidious's name? I can't seem to remember.
Most likely he learned the name from obi wan, who, while being held captive by count dooku was told who darth sidious was.
which then raises the question: obi wan was told by dooku that darth sidious was in control... even if obi wan doubted it, surely that would have spurred a more rigorous investigation to figure out the identity of sidious. Then again, the whole point of the thing is that the jedi abilities are waning and they can't detect the dark side all around them. shrug
Most likely he learned the name from obi wan, who, while being held captive by count dooku was told who darth sidious was.
which then raises the question: obi wan was told by dooku that darth sidious was in control... even if obi wan doubted it, surely that would have spurred a more rigorous investigation to figure out the identity of sidious. Then again, the whole point of the thing is that the jedi abilities are waning and they can't detect the dark side all around them. shrug
well, that's our whole theory (the anakin-brings-balance-to-the-force-at-the-end-of-episode-6-by-killing-palpatine camp) that the force somewhere before the start of episode 1 starts to go out of whack. that is, there are very many light side force practitioners, but only 1 or 2 mysterious and powerful dark siders. during the clone wars, force is definitely out of balance because you've got these very powerful light siders (jedi council, etc..) but with a big dark cloud of sidious/palpatine right in front of their faces and they don't even see it...
so at the end of return of the jedi the force gets a big system reboot with palpatine killed, luke a full jedi, leia starting to learn the ways (eventually), luke starting a jedi school.... and.... dah dah dahhhhh..... dark side practioners starting to emerge somewhere
of course this whole thing depends on one's definition of 'balance' in the force, which is probably the subject of a whole 'nother nerd debate.
I hope they add a lot at the END. I wanted to see more 70s transition stuff.
Seeing Darth Vader at the end made the WHOLE MOVIE AWESOME. Sure the acting and directing sucked ass, not as bad as 1, or 2, but certainly below 5 and 6, but hey, the good effects and action made up for it, and the storyline was good. And the end, was sweet. I didn't feel it though. I wanted more! I hope they put more footage on the DVD! Did they do that for II? I have II on DVD and it didn't seem to have anything additional.
And yes they should have made a new Cantina and had more ties between the trilogies, sort of like how the Back to the Futures and Home Alone I and II had a lot of things tying them together.
And there just HAS to be 7 8 and 9. And I can't wait. Someone else will direct, and have learned from the mistakes that are 1, 2, and mostly 3. It would just make too much $ not to make.
I was just thinking - if there's a planet full of ewoks and a planet full of wookies, there's bound to be a planet full of Yoda's relatives.
So for Return of the Jedi, instead of gimpy ewoks we could have had tribes of Yoda-lookalikes, jumping around, waggling their ears and talking oddly.
want to attack a load of stormtroopers on speeders? call in commando yodas. want to attack a base thing controlling a forcefield thing? call in ninja yodas.
freaky.
I still want to see more of the wookie action in Ep3 though. here's hoping that the dvd has kickass wookie scences extended to 20min instead of the 2 min we got to see.
---
Ah, just asked Star Wars guru work colleague - apparently Yoda's race is specified as unknown. but there is a girl yoda in the jedi council
I'm still not sure why the Jedi were so cool with fighting next to the clone army, knowing that the original order for them was made years before Palatine's "surprise" election to the Supreme Chancellor.
Don't tell me the Jedi were outnumbered so they needed them as allies to fight the confederates. You've got entire planets teeming with Republic civilians. Give 'em blasters and force them to serve to defend the Republic. Clones are trained and well armed but against sufficient numbers they would crumble. Wookiees know how to fight, so did the Gungans and Ewoks...
I had discussed that very issues while watching the Ep.II DVD with some of the young ones of clan Goldstein.
Perhaps those civilians of the Republic were not keen on enlisting to defend their homegalaxy, perhaps the very idea of conscription was so impopular that it was unthinkable for any sane politician to propose, let alone endorse.
?A respectable citizen doing a soldier's work? That's only good enough for machines and clones.?
correct me if im wrong, but isnt the reason that there are only 2 sith always is because if there were as many sith as there were jedi they would all fight against eachother to see whos the 'best sith' and they they would end up all being destroyed.
I had discussed that very issues while watching the Ep.II DVD with some of the young ones of clan Goldstein.
Perhaps those civilians of the Republic were not keen on enlisting to defend their homegalaxy, perhaps the very idea of conscription was so impopular that it was unthinkable for any sane politician to propose, let alone endorse.
?A respectable citizen doing a soldier's work? That's only good enough for machines and clones.?
well, which megalomaniac wouldn't want a droid or clone army? they're fast to manufacture, have a high uniform level of quality, disposable, 'faceless', 100% loyal to whoever controls them, you can build all machines and cockpits and equipment for specific sizes,
much much better than trying to enlist and train whiny civilians of all shapes sizes and races to go and fight on all sorts of different environments ~ you know, equal opportunity issues and all that.
imagine trying to make spacesuits for 100 different species? or different versions of blaster rifles -- one for those with fingers, one for those with more than 10 fingers, one for those with less than ten fingers, one for those with tentacles, another one for those with suction pods, another for those with telekenesis ~
two words why clone and droid army rulz:
they avoided the
ERGONOMIC NIGHTMARE of building your standard galactic army
oh... i haven't even started on the food. just think about airplane 'rations' : vegan, vegetarian, gluten free, halal, non-halal, kosher, dairy, lactose-intolerant, etc, etc.
also: not so good situation if you have one species that normally in more primitive times hunted at ate another species. imagine you had these two republic commandos left on some godforsaken planet, out of food and water. one will eat up the other if it's dying... not good
no i haven't been thinking about these points all day
well, which megalomaniac wouldn't want a droid or clone army?
More than a few real live officers are known to have tried with the presently available ?human resources?, with variable results.
Quote:
?they're fast to manufacture, have a high uniform level of quality, disposable, 'faceless', 100% loyal to whoever controls them, you can build all machines and cockpits and equipment for specific sizes,
A citizens' army (the kind that fought most wars on Earth for the last 200 or so years) would have been more difficult from the get go, although far from insurmountable.
On the other hands, delegating the republic's defence to drones ?100% loyal to whoever controls them? (the nec-plus-ultra in mercenaries) means ultimately handing the keys of the house, hovercar, and speace-bank account numbers, to the one holding the remote-control.
Quote:
much much better than trying to enlist and train whiny civilians?
When it comes to crucially important matters (like defending something deemd worthy of it, like a republic with relative freedom), whiny civilians can prove quite resilient. Of course, they are far less so when it comes to questionable military adventures per-se.
Quote:
?of all shapes sizes and races to go and fight on all sorts of different environments ~ you know, equal opportunity issues and all that.
imagine trying to make spacesuits for 100 different species? or different versions of blaster rifles -- one for those with fingers, one for those with more than 10 fingers, one for those with less than ten fingers, one for those with tentacles, another one for those with suction pods, another for those with telekenesis ~
I assume all the concerned space-faring cultures would have developed the required technologies to produce such gear themselves (or even outsource some production to trading partners); all those millions of worlds could pool their resources to that end, so while it'd less tightly integrated than the imperial's gear it would have had some advantages.
Quote:
oh... i haven't even started on the food. just think about airplane 'rations' : vegan, vegetarian, gluten free, halal, non-halal, kosher, dairy, lactose-intolerant, etc, etc.
I suppose it makes sense to keep units on a same-species basis (e. g.: ?The Republic's Own Marklarian Blaster Fusiliers?) for practical purposes, under a common high-command. Within the same species, some present-day armies have to deal adequately with specifics of ?vegan, vegetarian, gluten free, halal, non-halal, kosher, dairy, lactose-intolerant, etc, etc.? and seem to do so reasonably enough without losing too much on the battlefield.
Quote:
also: not so good situation if you have one species that normally in more primitive times hunted at ate another species. imagine you had these two republic commandos left on some godforsaken planet, out of food and water. one will eat up the other if it's dying... not good
It's been known to happen within the same species too.
That's why functioning armies should have all that bothersome discipline thingee.
So, necessity being an excellent motivator I suppose republicanist humn? pan-galaxian-creative minds would have found effective ways to deal with it.
The anti-republican rebels did have to do much of the fighting themselves, after all.
Quote:
edit: with clone and droid army there are also no mothers to worry about and write letters of condolences to.
Which relates to the idea which I suppose might have prevailed in the Republic's sunset years, of a soldier's work being unsuitable for citizens.
When the politicians and the high-command officers have to consider a sizable voting public made of grieving parents, they have less latitude.
With a ?droid or clone army you don't need the public's support for whichever war you wage, and while it might prove troublesome to use a citizen's army against their citizen communities, with a ?droid or clone army, it's trouble-free!
Don't look now but if you reread the other quotes it's more of a 'Quotes of shame' then 'Quotes of fame.' list. "It is possible to be both biased and fair/balanced."- NaplesX This was regarding FOX news. As Yoda would say. "How embarrassing for NaplesX, How embarrassing, *sigh*" I don't know the context of your quote but it sounds ok to me.
Don't look now but if you reread the other quotes it's more of a 'Quotes of shame' then 'Quotes of fame.' list. "It is possible to be both biased and fair/balanced."- NaplesX This was regarding FOX news. As Yoda would say. "How embarrassing for NaplesX, How embarrassing, *sigh*" I don't know the context of your quote but it sounds ok to me.
Comments
Originally posted by Powerdoc
Mace Windu, was the supreme chief of the Jedi, and thus may be the most powerful Jedi.
Yoda said to Obi Wan Kenobi,in the final part of the movie, that Mace Windu discovered the secret of immortality and spoke to him.
(I shouldn't know this fact, let alone admit it), but wasn't it Qui Gon Jin that discovered the immortality/communication capability?
Originally posted by johnq
(I shouldn't know this fact, let alone admit it), but wasn't it Qui Gon Jin that discovered the immortality/communication capability?
May be you are right.
Originally posted by Powerdoc
May be you are right.
pwn3d were you, by a master geek
feel the shame flowing though you
Originally posted by johnq
pwn3d were you, by a master geek
feel the shame flowing though you
see, it's not just me that's degenerating into l33tspeak...!!!
Originally posted by ijerry
The thing that bothered me the most was the fact that Mace Windu seemed to have an easier time with Palpatine than did Yoda. I would have thought that to not be the case. Though, I guess I could speculate that Palpatine set the trap to ultimately turn Anakin to the darkside and thus let Mace get so close to killing him....hmmmmmm
In one of the earlier movies there was a quote about Obi Wan Kenobi being "as wise as Yoda, and as powerful as Mace Windu" which implies that Mace Windu was perceived as being the superior fighter.
What bothered me about the fight between Yoda and the Palpatine was why would Yoda send Obi Wan after Anakin? Don't you think that anyone with half a brain would have kept Obi Wan at his side to fight Palpatine? Palpatine was the one taking over the Republic, he was the important one to stop. Anakin was just his lackey... Not the tactics you would expect from someone as "wise" as Yoda.
Originally posted by Res
Not the tactics you would expect from someone as "wise" as Yoda.
Hey, he was around 900 years old at the time fer cryin' out loud.
--
I'm still not sure why the Jedi were so cool with fighting next to the clone army, knowing that the original order for them was made years before Palatine's "surprise" election to the Supreme Chancellor.
Don't tell me the Jedi were outnumbered so they needed them as allies to fight the confederates. You've got entire planets teeming with Republic civilians. Give 'em blasters and force them to serve to defend the Republic. Clones are trained and well armed but against sufficient numbers they would crumble. Wookiees know how to fight, so did the Gungans and Ewoks...
Originally posted by johnq
You've taken your first steps into a larger universe...
now the real question is how big is our current universe and does it end?
Originally posted by Dave K.
Have a question for you. When Yoda confronts Darth Sidious in his Senate office, he refers to Darth Sidious by name. When did Yoda learn of Darth Sidious's name? I can't seem to remember.
Most likely he learned the name from obi wan, who, while being held captive by count dooku was told who darth sidious was.
which then raises the question: obi wan was told by dooku that darth sidious was in control... even if obi wan doubted it, surely that would have spurred a more rigorous investigation to figure out the identity of sidious. Then again, the whole point of the thing is that the jedi abilities are waning and they can't detect the dark side all around them. shrug
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
Most likely he learned the name from obi wan, who, while being held captive by count dooku was told who darth sidious was.
which then raises the question: obi wan was told by dooku that darth sidious was in control... even if obi wan doubted it, surely that would have spurred a more rigorous investigation to figure out the identity of sidious. Then again, the whole point of the thing is that the jedi abilities are waning and they can't detect the dark side all around them. shrug
well, that's our whole theory (the anakin-brings-balance-to-the-force-at-the-end-of-episode-6-by-killing-palpatine camp) that the force somewhere before the start of episode 1 starts to go out of whack. that is, there are very many light side force practitioners, but only 1 or 2 mysterious and powerful dark siders. during the clone wars, force is definitely out of balance because you've got these very powerful light siders (jedi council, etc..) but with a big dark cloud of sidious/palpatine right in front of their faces and they don't even see it...
so at the end of return of the jedi the force gets a big system reboot with palpatine killed, luke a full jedi, leia starting to learn the ways (eventually), luke starting a jedi school.... and.... dah dah dahhhhh..... dark side practioners starting to emerge somewhere
of course this whole thing depends on one's definition of 'balance' in the force, which is probably the subject of a whole 'nother nerd debate.
Seeing Darth Vader at the end made the WHOLE MOVIE AWESOME. Sure the acting and directing sucked ass, not as bad as 1, or 2, but certainly below 5 and 6, but hey, the good effects and action made up for it, and the storyline was good. And the end, was sweet. I didn't feel it though. I wanted more! I hope they put more footage on the DVD! Did they do that for II? I have II on DVD and it didn't seem to have anything additional.
And yes they should have made a new Cantina and had more ties between the trilogies, sort of like how the Back to the Futures and Home Alone I and II had a lot of things tying them together.
And there just HAS to be 7 8 and 9. And I can't wait. Someone else will direct, and have learned from the mistakes that are 1, 2, and mostly 3. It would just make too much $ not to make.
I was just thinking - if there's a planet full of ewoks and a planet full of wookies, there's bound to be a planet full of Yoda's relatives.
So for Return of the Jedi, instead of gimpy ewoks we could have had tribes of Yoda-lookalikes, jumping around, waggling their ears and talking oddly.
want to attack a load of stormtroopers on speeders? call in commando yodas. want to attack a base thing controlling a forcefield thing? call in ninja yodas.
freaky.
I still want to see more of the wookie action in Ep3 though. here's hoping that the dvd has kickass wookie scences extended to 20min instead of the 2 min we got to see.
---
Ah, just asked Star Wars guru work colleague - apparently Yoda's race is specified as unknown. but there is a girl yoda in the jedi council
Originally posted by johnq
I'm still not sure why the Jedi were so cool with fighting next to the clone army, knowing that the original order for them was made years before Palatine's "surprise" election to the Supreme Chancellor.
Don't tell me the Jedi were outnumbered so they needed them as allies to fight the confederates. You've got entire planets teeming with Republic civilians. Give 'em blasters and force them to serve to defend the Republic. Clones are trained and well armed but against sufficient numbers they would crumble. Wookiees know how to fight, so did the Gungans and Ewoks...
I had discussed that very issues while watching the Ep.II DVD with some of the young ones of clan Goldstein.
Perhaps those civilians of the Republic were not keen on enlisting to defend their homegalaxy, perhaps the very idea of conscription was so impopular that it was unthinkable for any sane politician to propose, let alone endorse.
?A respectable citizen doing a soldier's work? That's only good enough for machines and clones.?
Originally posted by Immanuel Goldstein
I had discussed that very issues while watching the Ep.II DVD with some of the young ones of clan Goldstein.
Perhaps those civilians of the Republic were not keen on enlisting to defend their homegalaxy, perhaps the very idea of conscription was so impopular that it was unthinkable for any sane politician to propose, let alone endorse.
?A respectable citizen doing a soldier's work? That's only good enough for machines and clones.?
well, which megalomaniac wouldn't want a droid or clone army? they're fast to manufacture, have a high uniform level of quality, disposable, 'faceless', 100% loyal to whoever controls them, you can build all machines and cockpits and equipment for specific sizes,
much much better than trying to enlist and train whiny civilians of all shapes sizes and races to go and fight on all sorts of different environments ~ you know, equal opportunity issues and all that.
imagine trying to make spacesuits for 100 different species? or different versions of blaster rifles -- one for those with fingers, one for those with more than 10 fingers, one for those with less than ten fingers, one for those with tentacles, another one for those with suction pods, another for those with telekenesis ~
two words why clone and droid army rulz:
they avoided the
ERGONOMIC NIGHTMARE of building your standard galactic army
oh... i haven't even started on the food. just think about airplane 'rations' : vegan, vegetarian, gluten free, halal, non-halal, kosher, dairy, lactose-intolerant, etc, etc.
also: not so good situation if you have one species that normally in more primitive times hunted at ate another species. imagine you had these two republic commandos left on some godforsaken planet, out of food and water. one will eat up the other if it's dying... not good
no i haven't been thinking about these points all day
Originally posted by sunilraman
well, which megalomaniac wouldn't want a droid or clone army?
More than a few real live officers are known to have tried with the presently available ?human resources?, with variable results.
?they're fast to manufacture, have a high uniform level of quality, disposable, 'faceless', 100% loyal to whoever controls them, you can build all machines and cockpits and equipment for specific sizes,
A citizens' army (the kind that fought most wars on Earth for the last 200 or so years) would have been more difficult from the get go, although far from insurmountable.
On the other hands, delegating the republic's defence to drones ?100% loyal to whoever controls them? (the nec-plus-ultra in mercenaries) means ultimately handing the keys of the house, hovercar, and speace-bank account numbers, to the one holding the remote-control.
much much better than trying to enlist and train whiny civilians?
When it comes to crucially important matters (like defending something deemd worthy of it, like a republic with relative freedom), whiny civilians can prove quite resilient. Of course, they are far less so when it comes to questionable military adventures per-se.
?of all shapes sizes and races to go and fight on all sorts of different environments ~ you know, equal opportunity issues and all that.
imagine trying to make spacesuits for 100 different species? or different versions of blaster rifles -- one for those with fingers, one for those with more than 10 fingers, one for those with less than ten fingers, one for those with tentacles, another one for those with suction pods, another for those with telekenesis ~
I assume all the concerned space-faring cultures would have developed the required technologies to produce such gear themselves (or even outsource some production to trading partners); all those millions of worlds could pool their resources to that end, so while it'd less tightly integrated than the imperial's gear it would have had some advantages.
oh... i haven't even started on the food. just think about airplane 'rations' : vegan, vegetarian, gluten free, halal, non-halal, kosher, dairy, lactose-intolerant, etc, etc.
I suppose it makes sense to keep units on a same-species basis (e. g.: ?The Republic's Own Marklarian Blaster Fusiliers?) for practical purposes, under a common high-command. Within the same species, some present-day armies have to deal adequately with specifics of ?vegan, vegetarian, gluten free, halal, non-halal, kosher, dairy, lactose-intolerant, etc, etc.? and seem to do so reasonably enough without losing too much on the battlefield.
also: not so good situation if you have one species that normally in more primitive times hunted at ate another species. imagine you had these two republic commandos left on some godforsaken planet, out of food and water. one will eat up the other if it's dying... not good
It's been known to happen within the same species too.
That's why functioning armies should have all that bothersome discipline thingee.
So, necessity being an excellent motivator I suppose republicanist humn? pan-galaxian-creative minds would have found effective ways to deal with it.
The anti-republican rebels did have to do much of the fighting themselves, after all.
edit: with clone and droid army there are also no mothers to worry about and write letters of condolences to.
Which relates to the idea which I suppose might have prevailed in the Republic's sunset years, of a soldier's work being unsuitable for citizens.
When the politicians and the high-command officers have to consider a sizable voting public made of grieving parents, they have less latitude.
With a ?droid or clone army you don't need the public's support for whichever war you wage, and while it might prove troublesome to use a citizen's army against their citizen communities, with a ?droid or clone army, it's trouble-free!
Originally posted by sunilraman
hey... you quoted me in your sig. Cool
Don't look now but if you reread the other quotes it's more of a 'Quotes of shame' then 'Quotes of fame.' list. "It is possible to be both biased and fair/balanced."- NaplesX This was regarding FOX news. As Yoda would say. "How embarrassing for NaplesX, How embarrassing, *sigh*" I don't know the context of your quote but it sounds ok to me.
Originally posted by AquaMac
Don't look now but if you reread the other quotes it's more of a 'Quotes of shame' then 'Quotes of fame.' list. "It is possible to be both biased and fair/balanced."- NaplesX This was regarding FOX news. As Yoda would say. "How embarrassing for NaplesX, How embarrassing, *sigh*" I don't know the context of your quote but it sounds ok to me.
I do the quotes of shame style as well