Anybody: 1) Is the MPC8641D by Freescalle completed and ready for production? and 2) Would it for all intents and purposes make for a Dual G4 PB?
All we've heard so far is that it is expected to sample in the second half of this year. Unless Freescale have been accelerating the production of that chip and keeping it secret (which is very unlikely, but not totally impossible), it wouldn't be available for anybody's laptop before the first half of 2006. We may find out more about timelines for the chip by the end of June.
Looking at the data sheet (see earlier posts), it looks like it would be a very good laptop chip, as would its single core sibling. But it's not here now, nor likely this year, and I'm pretty certain Apple want to give their Powerbooks a major speed bump before then. The G5 label is also very important...
I don't believe this personally. I think users would much rather have a dual g4 than a single g5. The dual g4 is faster than a single g5 IMO. Is it the e800 that is 64bit? Or is the e600 as well?
I don't believe this personally. I think users would much rather have a dual g4 than a single g5. The dual g4 is faster than a single g5 IMO. Is it the e800 that is 64bit? Or is the e600 as well?
You know, now that I think about it, I'd probably buy a 7448 @ 2ghz in a PowerBook. Yeah it's not dual core, but it's at the point where it'd be twice as fast or more than my current 1ghz 17inch PB. If you look at the tech brief (I scanned it, didn't read in depth yet) They've improved Out of Order Altivec performance, and I'm guessing many small tweaks elsewhere, so while it wouldn't be groundbreaking, I'm betting that for most it'd be a better solution than say a 1.6-1.8Ghz low voltage G5(97xyz).
I'm not as up on this as I should be, isn't the 7448 supposed to be in production at this point? or at least close? Thought I remember first half 2005 as being the 7448 timetable. Now if they could do a 7448D, I'd jump on that lickity split, but I'm not holding my breath.
I noticed the 7448 supports MESI cache coherence; didn't the G4+ at one point support MERSI? could have sworn it did, and was touted as a benefit to multi-CPU performance. Maybe that was the 604e, but I don't think it was because the 603e only had 3 levels of cache coherence and was billed as "less than ideal" for multi-CPU scenarios.
I think the G5 moniker is very important. I mean "iMac G5." They made the processor known when the iBook moved from the G3s when they released "iBook G4s."
I think a "PowerBook G5" is crucial to Apple and they are working every angle to get it right and released.
I think we are imminently close to a PowerBook G5. I hope it appears at WWDC in about a week!
I think a "PowerBook G5" is crucial to Apple and they are working every angle to get it right and released.
Quite so. And there's another reason for thinking that whatever they squeeze into the next generation PB, it won't come from Freescale - we know too much about the chips. If they were going to be used by Apple, I think there'd be a news blackout... much like the one surrounding IBM's low power chip.
What makes anyone so sure that PBs will be updated at an affair like WWDC?
They announced Power Mac G5s at WWDC in 2003.
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
Having dual processors in a powerbook is much more important to people than a "g5".
One reason...Marketing wants a G5 processor in the PowerBook...not dual G4s. Dual G4s in PowerBooks are not more important to people per sé...I think that is a subjective opinion. I think most people want a G5 in there. Everyone who looks at my 17" PowerBook asks me when Apple is releasing a G5 PowerBook. If I told them Apple will be coming out with a PowerBook with dual G4s they'd say "so what." It's psychological.
One reason...Marketing wants a G5 processor in the PowerBook...not dual G4s. Dual G4s in PowerBooks are not more important to people per sé...I think that is a subjective opinion. I think most people want a G5 in there. Everyone who looks at my 17" PowerBook asks me when Apple is releasing a G5 PowerBook. If I told them Apple will be coming out with a PowerBook with dual G4s they'd say "so what." It's psychological.
But a dual g4 benchmark would smoke a single g5... its cold hard fact. Names are names... I think it was chris farley who said... "if you want me to take a shit in a box and give you a warranty...I can". The warranty just makes it look pretty. Just like the g5 name looks the computer look pretty. But if it came down to benchmarks... a dual g4 would be much mroe USEFUL than a g5.
Apple has been pushing 64-bit processing, and to come out with a dual proc G4 PowerBook is going to come across as a lame cover. As much as dual proc G4s smoke single core G5s at the moment, I just don't think it's anything Apple is considering. Yeah they may have protos but I don't think they'll ever surface.
As much as dual proc G4s smoke single core G5s at the moment, I just don't think it's anything Apple is considering.
Can we just be clear about this: G4s with dual cores are not commercially available, and so can't smoke anything. When they are available, which may be next year, you might be able to make a case for using them in a laptop. In the meantime, I don't think Apple and IBM haven't been sitting on their hands since it became apparent the FX wasn't going to go in a laptop.
There will be a G5 PowerBook (or a PowerBook labelled G5) with an IBM chip in it, and I'm betting that it will be out soon.
Apple has been pushing 64-bit processing, and to come out with a dual proc G4 PowerBook is going to come across as a lame cover. As much as dual proc G4s smoke single core G5s at the moment, I just don't think it's anything Apple is considering. Yeah they may have protos but I don't think they'll ever surface.
Apple has been pushing 64-bit processing? Are you kidding me?! You are aware that NO gui apps can run in 64bit mode in Tiger... right? You are aware that it has been almost 2 years and we finally get to use 64bit apps in the terminal. Apple has seriously slowed down development of OS 10. We are looking at at least 18 months before 10.5. Perhaps we'll have full 64bit processing by then?
Lets look at Microsoft. They have a 64bit XP version. It runs 64bit GUI applications.
And 64bit linux versions.... been out for quite a while.
So Apple is the last OS company to jump on the 64bit bandwagon.
It makes no sense to rush a powerbook g5 out the door, when GUI wise, the OS doesn't even support the 64bit processing.
Can we just be clear about this: G4s with dual cores are not commercially available, and so can't smoke anything. When they are available, which may be next year, you might be able to make a case for using them in a laptop. In the meantime, I don't think Apple and IBM haven't been sitting on their hands since it became apparent the FX wasn't going to go in a laptop.
There will be a G5 PowerBook (or a PowerBook labelled G5) with an IBM chip in it, and I'm betting that it will be out soon.
Pip pip!
No they aren't commercially available... but could have a much bigger jump on production than a 970gx. The e600mp is supposed to be sampled as we speak. This means one could be "announced" by september. Shipping by november (apple has made many powerbook announcements in november).
And you CAN make a case for a dualcore g4 being quicker than a g5, because currently single core g4's are keeping up with g5's with the same clockrates on everything except floating point calculations.
No they aren't commercially available... but could have a much bigger jump on production than a 970gx. The e600mp is supposed to be sampled as we speak. This means one could be "announced" by september. Shipping by november (apple has made many powerbook announcements in november).
And you CAN make a case for a dualcore g4 being quicker than a g5, because currently single core g4's are keeping up with g5's with the same clockrates on everything except floating point calculations.
The 970GX (which might not be the low-power chip, since it was described as a single core version of the MP) was "supposed to be sampling" last year and in production early this. If anyone has the "jump" here, it's IBM. Do we really think that Freescale - who still haven't made the jump to 90nm - are going to suddenly magically leap to the top of the heap? Remind me. What is their track record...?
In any event, a dual core G4 would be faster than a single core G5 clock for clock. You'd expect that, after all. But by the time it's available, IBM may well have a PPE-based multicore laptop-ready chip for Apple.
A 1.8GHz G5 PowerBook will be significantly faster than the current G4s. That's all Apple's interested in. With good new industrial design, HD screens, and some nice bits and bobs, it'll do very nicely. And I'll buy one.
No they aren't commercially available... but could have a much bigger jump on production than a 970gx. The e600mp is supposed to be sampled as we speak. This means one could be "announced" by september. Shipping by november (apple has made many powerbook announcements in november).
And you CAN make a case for a dualcore g4 being quicker than a g5, because currently single core g4's are keeping up with g5's with the same clockrates on everything except floating point calculations.
As M. Isobe at Ars posted a month or so ago, the 7448 will ramp up for production around now. Every week or so, I look at this site to see what Freescales' up to: http://www.freescale.com/files/price...ewproducts.xls
Its anybody's guess whether Apple will tap the shoulder of IBM or Freescale for the chip that goes in the next Powerbook after the next refresh. Its pretty obvious the 7448 will go in next. They'll undoubtedly update both the Powerbooks and iBooks at Paris.
I personally doubt the idea of dual core G4s going into a Powerbook...Freescale seems to have every intention of running the e600 purely in an embedded environment and I doubt their skill in tooling up for a custom Apple chip before mid 2006. That will be too long for everybody. The power and heat issue raises its head again when you've got 2 20-27 watt (at maximum) cores running. More ideas from Fscale will come at their developer conference in late june.
After that, you have a choice of: traditional G5s (which aren't going to go into a PB for all the reasons that have been mentioned and ignored); a new G5 variant (which has all the same problems but its new and people hope it will fulfil their long-standing desires for bandwidth; a multicore PPE-variant along the lines of the Xbox 2 CPU; or a Cell derivative with 2 or 4 SPEs.
We need info...no two ways about it. Pick a straw and wait...
The 970GX (which might not be the low-power chip, since it was described as a single core version of the MP) was "supposed to be sampling" last year and in production early this.
Ummmmmmmm proof?
This is the first I've heard of the 970gx supposedly had been sampling last year. Are you basing this rumor from Mac OS Rumors? In fact the first slight slip up of the 970gx was this year.
But I do (still) have a memory that goes back more than a few days. Here and here. From Think Secret in November and December last year: also explicitly refers to a third low-power chip that will top out at 2GHz for laptop use. The second article could be construed to imply that the MP could find its way into a laptop as well. If TS is right - and they're worth suing, after all - Apple apparently has choices...
Comments
Originally posted by surfacenuts
Anybody: 1) Is the MPC8641D by Freescalle completed and ready for production? and 2) Would it for all intents and purposes make for a Dual G4 PB?
All we've heard so far is that it is expected to sample in the second half of this year. Unless Freescale have been accelerating the production of that chip and keeping it secret (which is very unlikely, but not totally impossible), it wouldn't be available for anybody's laptop before the first half of 2006. We may find out more about timelines for the chip by the end of June.
Looking at the data sheet (see earlier posts), it looks like it would be a very good laptop chip, as would its single core sibling. But it's not here now, nor likely this year, and I'm pretty certain Apple want to give their Powerbooks a major speed bump before then. The G5 label is also very important...
Pip pip!
Originally posted by Bucolic Old Sir Henry
The G5 label is also very important...
Pip pip!
I don't believe this personally. I think users would much rather have a dual g4 than a single g5. The dual g4 is faster than a single g5 IMO. Is it the e800 that is 64bit? Or is the e600 as well?
Originally posted by emig647
I don't believe this personally. I think users would much rather have a dual g4 than a single g5. The dual g4 is faster than a single g5 IMO. Is it the e800 that is 64bit? Or is the e600 as well?
e700
I'm not as up on this as I should be, isn't the 7448 supposed to be in production at this point? or at least close? Thought I remember first half 2005 as being the 7448 timetable. Now if they could do a 7448D, I'd jump on that lickity split, but I'm not holding my breath.
I noticed the 7448 supports MESI cache coherence; didn't the G4+ at one point support MERSI? could have sworn it did, and was touted as a benefit to multi-CPU performance. Maybe that was the 604e, but I don't think it was because the 603e only had 3 levels of cache coherence and was billed as "less than ideal" for multi-CPU scenarios.
I think a "PowerBook G5" is crucial to Apple and they are working every angle to get it right and released.
I think we are imminently close to a PowerBook G5. I hope it appears at WWDC in about a week!
Originally posted by DHagan4755
I think a "PowerBook G5" is crucial to Apple and they are working every angle to get it right and released.
Quite so. And there's another reason for thinking that whatever they squeeze into the next generation PB, it won't come from Freescale - we know too much about the chips. If they were going to be used by Apple, I think there'd be a news blackout... much like the one surrounding IBM's low power chip.
Pip pip!
What can a g5 offer that a g4 can't?
A. Faster bus
B. More than 4gb memory
C. AGP 8x.
Well, e600 takes care of all of that.
Originally posted by surfacenuts
What makes anyone so sure that PBs will be updated at an affair like WWDC?
They announced Power Mac G5s at WWDC in 2003.
Originally posted by emig647
Having dual processors in a powerbook is much more important to people than a "g5".
One reason...Marketing wants a G5 processor in the PowerBook...not dual G4s. Dual G4s in PowerBooks are not more important to people per sé...I think that is a subjective opinion. I think most people want a G5 in there. Everyone who looks at my 17" PowerBook asks me when Apple is releasing a G5 PowerBook. If I told them Apple will be coming out with a PowerBook with dual G4s they'd say "so what." It's psychological.
Originally posted by DHagan4755
They announced Power Mac G5s at WWDC in 2003.
One reason...Marketing wants a G5 processor in the PowerBook...not dual G4s. Dual G4s in PowerBooks are not more important to people per sé...I think that is a subjective opinion. I think most people want a G5 in there. Everyone who looks at my 17" PowerBook asks me when Apple is releasing a G5 PowerBook. If I told them Apple will be coming out with a PowerBook with dual G4s they'd say "so what." It's psychological.
But a dual g4 benchmark would smoke a single g5... its cold hard fact. Names are names... I think it was chris farley who said... "if you want me to take a shit in a box and give you a warranty...I can". The warranty just makes it look pretty. Just like the g5 name looks the computer look pretty. But if it came down to benchmarks... a dual g4 would be much mroe USEFUL than a g5.
Originally posted by DHagan4755
As much as dual proc G4s smoke single core G5s at the moment, I just don't think it's anything Apple is considering.
Can we just be clear about this: G4s with dual cores are not commercially available, and so can't smoke anything. When they are available, which may be next year, you might be able to make a case for using them in a laptop. In the meantime, I don't think Apple and IBM haven't been sitting on their hands since it became apparent the FX wasn't going to go in a laptop.
There will be a G5 PowerBook (or a PowerBook labelled G5) with an IBM chip in it, and I'm betting that it will be out soon.
Pip pip!
Originally posted by DHagan4755
Apple has been pushing 64-bit processing, and to come out with a dual proc G4 PowerBook is going to come across as a lame cover. As much as dual proc G4s smoke single core G5s at the moment, I just don't think it's anything Apple is considering. Yeah they may have protos but I don't think they'll ever surface.
Apple has been pushing 64-bit processing? Are you kidding me?! You are aware that NO gui apps can run in 64bit mode in Tiger... right? You are aware that it has been almost 2 years and we finally get to use 64bit apps in the terminal. Apple has seriously slowed down development of OS 10. We are looking at at least 18 months before 10.5. Perhaps we'll have full 64bit processing by then?
Lets look at Microsoft. They have a 64bit XP version. It runs 64bit GUI applications.
And 64bit linux versions.... been out for quite a while.
So Apple is the last OS company to jump on the 64bit bandwagon.
It makes no sense to rush a powerbook g5 out the door, when GUI wise, the OS doesn't even support the 64bit processing.
Originally posted by Bucolic Old Sir Henry
Can we just be clear about this: G4s with dual cores are not commercially available, and so can't smoke anything. When they are available, which may be next year, you might be able to make a case for using them in a laptop. In the meantime, I don't think Apple and IBM haven't been sitting on their hands since it became apparent the FX wasn't going to go in a laptop.
There will be a G5 PowerBook (or a PowerBook labelled G5) with an IBM chip in it, and I'm betting that it will be out soon.
Pip pip!
No they aren't commercially available... but could have a much bigger jump on production than a 970gx. The e600mp is supposed to be sampled as we speak. This means one could be "announced" by september. Shipping by november (apple has made many powerbook announcements in november).
And you CAN make a case for a dualcore g4 being quicker than a g5, because currently single core g4's are keeping up with g5's with the same clockrates on everything except floating point calculations.
Originally posted by Bucolic Old Sir Henry
Pip pip!
I hate you.
Originally posted by emig647
No they aren't commercially available... but could have a much bigger jump on production than a 970gx. The e600mp is supposed to be sampled as we speak. This means one could be "announced" by september. Shipping by november (apple has made many powerbook announcements in november).
And you CAN make a case for a dualcore g4 being quicker than a g5, because currently single core g4's are keeping up with g5's with the same clockrates on everything except floating point calculations.
The 970GX (which might not be the low-power chip, since it was described as a single core version of the MP) was "supposed to be sampling" last year and in production early this. If anyone has the "jump" here, it's IBM. Do we really think that Freescale - who still haven't made the jump to 90nm - are going to suddenly magically leap to the top of the heap? Remind me. What is their track record...?
In any event, a dual core G4 would be faster than a single core G5 clock for clock. You'd expect that, after all. But by the time it's available, IBM may well have a PPE-based multicore laptop-ready chip for Apple.
A 1.8GHz G5 PowerBook will be significantly faster than the current G4s. That's all Apple's interested in. With good new industrial design, HD screens, and some nice bits and bobs, it'll do very nicely. And I'll buy one.
Pip pip!
Originally posted by wilco
I hate you.
Seems a little harsh. Obviously not a Wodehouse fan.
Pip pip!
Originally posted by emig647
No they aren't commercially available... but could have a much bigger jump on production than a 970gx. The e600mp is supposed to be sampled as we speak. This means one could be "announced" by september. Shipping by november (apple has made many powerbook announcements in november).
And you CAN make a case for a dualcore g4 being quicker than a g5, because currently single core g4's are keeping up with g5's with the same clockrates on everything except floating point calculations.
As M. Isobe at Ars posted a month or so ago, the 7448 will ramp up for production around now. Every week or so, I look at this site to see what Freescales' up to: http://www.freescale.com/files/price...ewproducts.xls
Its anybody's guess whether Apple will tap the shoulder of IBM or Freescale for the chip that goes in the next Powerbook after the next refresh. Its pretty obvious the 7448 will go in next. They'll undoubtedly update both the Powerbooks and iBooks at Paris.
I personally doubt the idea of dual core G4s going into a Powerbook...Freescale seems to have every intention of running the e600 purely in an embedded environment and I doubt their skill in tooling up for a custom Apple chip before mid 2006. That will be too long for everybody. The power and heat issue raises its head again when you've got 2 20-27 watt (at maximum) cores running. More ideas from Fscale will come at their developer conference in late june.
After that, you have a choice of: traditional G5s (which aren't going to go into a PB for all the reasons that have been mentioned and ignored); a new G5 variant (which has all the same problems but its new and people hope it will fulfil their long-standing desires for bandwidth; a multicore PPE-variant along the lines of the Xbox 2 CPU; or a Cell derivative with 2 or 4 SPEs.
We need info...no two ways about it. Pick a straw and wait...
Originally posted by Bucolic Old Sir Henry
The 970GX (which might not be the low-power chip, since it was described as a single core version of the MP) was "supposed to be sampling" last year and in production early this.
Ummmmmmmm proof?
This is the first I've heard of the 970gx supposedly had been sampling last year. Are you basing this rumor from Mac OS Rumors? In fact the first slight slip up of the 970gx was this year.
Originally posted by emig647
Ummmmmmmm proof?
You want proof! I'm not Mr Jobs, y'know...
But I do (still) have a memory that goes back more than a few days. Here and here. From Think Secret in November and December last year: also explicitly refers to a third low-power chip that will top out at 2GHz for laptop use. The second article could be construed to imply that the MP could find its way into a laptop as well. If TS is right - and they're worth suing, after all - Apple apparently has choices...
Pip pip!