From "World Wide Words": "A related expression is not by a long shot. However, this is originally a military idiom, based on the difficulty of hitting a target at long range, hence an outside chance."
Same with Card Shark (even showed up using Tiger's Dashboard dictionary!).
The take home lesson is that English is a living language - so, for example, even though "beg the question" is consistently misused, compared to its historical definition, many experts are starting to accept the new usage as an acceptable alternate.
You can tell it's a fake, that's obviously just a cardboard box with an apple taped on it. Bigfoot must think we're all fools.
Oh I don't know. It's better than those photos philbot posted of the mysterious new product taken by a friend in the Charles De Gaul airport elevator last summer.
Compared with the relatively detailed leak of the 970MP and GX specs, we've heard nothing about the putative low-power chip beyond that it was sampling at speeds of 1.6 to 2.0GHz. There were rumours a year or so ago that Apple and IBM were playing around with multi-core laptop chips, but that was dismissed at the time.
Well some dismissed it, I certainly didn't! The question is can IBM deliver such a chip to Apple this year. The extended introductions of other PPE based processors brings that into question.
Like others I would have loved to seen a dual core e600 based portable this year. On the other hand my computer investments tend to be long term and a 64 bit processor of the right implementation would be a far smarter investment.
Quote:
However, with what we now know about Waternoose and Cell, it's at least conceivable that Apple and IBM decided to play with the same ingredients. Two PPE cores and a couple of SPEs perhaps? With an on-die memory controller? Clocked relatively low (to save power & heat), but in combination handily outpacing any single 970 core at laptop friendly clock rates?
I'm not even sure they would need the SPE's. Just having and improved vector processor could go a long ways in support future needs. This is especially the case if one ends up with 4 0r 6 hardware threads. I like what you propose, for Apple the trick would be marketing the unit. There are many non believers when it comes to SMP, some concerns justified but the reality is that it can be a huge win for many users.
Quote:
Tiger's "core" technologies may be the key here, and getting Tiger out of the door necessary to allow the release of new hardware with CPUs that ship a lot of the "core" tasks out to SPE-type co-processors. That's what the big holes in the programme are for, perhaps. Sessions to get devs focussed on making hte best use of this new, but relatively specialised processing power.
Yes TIGER is extremely important to supporting such hardware. As to the wholes in the WWDC program, I don't know to be honest. The thing is that in many ways portables are a mature technology so would there really be a need to focus developers on mutlithreaded hardware? I'm still holding out hope that the real surprises are technology applied to new markets.
The tablet would be one place such that could justify a open slot. Other things like open system video hardware is another. Apple delivering an HD video server would be neat.
Quote:
On the other hand, I'm not expecting the above. It's possible, that's all. I suspect that what we will actually get will be a single core 970-based design.
Well it might be nice but I suspect that we will get something else. That is based on the power profile of 970 hardware we know about and the slim chance that the architecture can be harnessed at lower power levels.
I see PPE's as the path to future portables for a couple of reasons. One is the power/size issue. The other is the chips potential for custimization.
The person who made this post posted this on the 22nd, announcing that there would be a laptop in the next 14 days.
Lets do some math:
May 22nd + 14 days = June 6th.
Coincedentaly, this is when the WWDC keynote is. My guess is that this person has no clue what their talking about, and they are just making a guess for WWDC. It is POSSIBLE that G5 laptops could be out at WWDC...but in my opinion...highly unlikely. I wouldn't read to much into this post.
I see PPE's as the path to future portables for a couple of reasons. One is the power/size issue. The other is the chips potential for custimization.
I think you're absolutely right, but the timing of the move is the big imponderable. If they don't have some kind of low power multi-core CPU ready now (and I agree that given the timelines for the other PPE chips that seems unlikely), then whatever laptop chip they have got up their sleeve will probably have to have a reasonable life to recoup the development costs. That puts PPE core laptop chips 18 months to two years away, I'd guess.
I wonder what the 970MP thermals are like? It probably needs Apple's watercooling at 2.5 to 3GHz, but at 1.5GHz? Or even slightly lower? Single thread performance might not show much improvement over the G4 at the same clock rate, but the extra CPU would make everything else fly. That would be a real step up from today.
On the other hand, a single core 970Mobile at 1.8 to 2.0GHz would still be a good marketing proposition. I'd buy one.
What was really weird was how Powerbook7,1 and Powerbook7,2 appeared in the plist for the G5 platform driver in 10.3.5 (?) last summer and then disappeared in a later release. That suggests prototypes existed and possibly were seeded with very select developers, but at least inside the cupertino campus. Whether it was removed because the designs were scrapped or because someone realized info was leaking out this way, I don't know. I'd like to though.
What was really weird was how Powerbook7,1 and Powerbook7,2 appeared in the plist for the G5 platform driver in 10.3.5 (?) last summer and then disappeared in a later release.
Was it last summer? I thought it was towards the year end, giving us all hope for January's MWSF. That might have been the machine that prompted "the mother of all thermal challenges" comment.
But it does strongly suggest that they've got a laptop chipset ready to go - and waiting for something...
"Whether it was suggested by a difficult long shot attempted in archery or shooting isn't known, but the expression 'a long shot' first arose in British racing circles some 128 years ago as a bet laid at large odds, a bold wager. NOT BY A LONG SHOT therefore means hopelessly out of reckoning. Attempts have been made to derive the saying from the slightly earlier NOT BY A LONG CHALK, which comes from the use of chalk for reckoning points in tavern games. But 'not by a long chalk' means 'not by much,' so it seems that the phrase (long shot) derives from either archery or shooting." From "Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins" by Robert Hendrickson (Facts on File, New York, 1997).
Was it last summer? I thought it was towards the year end, giving us all hope for January's MWSF. That might have been the machine that prompted "the mother of all thermal challenges" comment.
But it does strongly suggest that they've got a laptop chipset ready to go - and waiting for something...
I think that plist file in the 10.3.5 update let the cat of the bag with respect to PowerBook G5s. It's going to either be in a week+ or Paris, or sometime in between.
I can't believe for the life of me with all of the R&D Apple poured into the G5 with IBM, that they weren't also working in parallel on a G5 that would work for portables.
But if apple doesn't release it at WWDC, i'm getting a current powerbook. I'm starting to lose production because of not having a fast enough mac. I screwed myself on a project for 2 months because I didn't have a mac at all. Right now I'm on a g4 cube 450 with upgraded video and harddrive. I think the only way to get this fast enough is more ram (352 in it now) and another cpu.
I'm also going to be travelling a lot this summer, so I better get on this project. I definitely learned my lesson about the "waiting game".
Anybody: 1) Is the MPC8641D by Freescalle completed and ready for production? and 2) Would it for all intents and purposes make for a Dual G4 PB?
1: who knows. Very doubful for it to appear before the processors before it.
2: According to their roadmap it would work in a PB design. Of course that could change when it comes out. When IBM announced the 970 they said it would work in a PB as the 970fx. Obviously not the case
Comments
"long shot" is a proper phrase....
From "World Wide Words": "A related expression is not by a long shot. However, this is originally a military idiom, based on the difficulty of hitting a target at long range, hence an outside chance."
Same with Card Shark (even showed up using Tiger's Dashboard dictionary!).
The take home lesson is that English is a living language - so, for example, even though "beg the question" is consistently misused, compared to its historical definition, many experts are starting to accept the new usage as an acceptable alternate.
Go figure.
Fish
/pedant mode off
Originally posted by D.J. Adequate
You can tell it's a fake, that's obviously just a cardboard box with an apple taped on it. Bigfoot must think we're all fools.
Oh I don't know. It's better than those photos philbot posted of the mysterious new product taken by a friend in the Charles De Gaul airport elevator last summer.
Originally posted by Bucolic Old Sir Henry
Compared with the relatively detailed leak of the 970MP and GX specs, we've heard nothing about the putative low-power chip beyond that it was sampling at speeds of 1.6 to 2.0GHz. There were rumours a year or so ago that Apple and IBM were playing around with multi-core laptop chips, but that was dismissed at the time.
Well some dismissed it, I certainly didn't! The question is can IBM deliver such a chip to Apple this year. The extended introductions of other PPE based processors brings that into question.
Like others I would have loved to seen a dual core e600 based portable this year. On the other hand my computer investments tend to be long term and a 64 bit processor of the right implementation would be a far smarter investment.
Quote:
However, with what we now know about Waternoose and Cell, it's at least conceivable that Apple and IBM decided to play with the same ingredients. Two PPE cores and a couple of SPEs perhaps? With an on-die memory controller? Clocked relatively low (to save power & heat), but in combination handily outpacing any single 970 core at laptop friendly clock rates?
I'm not even sure they would need the SPE's. Just having and improved vector processor could go a long ways in support future needs. This is especially the case if one ends up with 4 0r 6 hardware threads. I like what you propose, for Apple the trick would be marketing the unit. There are many non believers when it comes to SMP, some concerns justified but the reality is that it can be a huge win for many users.
Quote:
Tiger's "core" technologies may be the key here, and getting Tiger out of the door necessary to allow the release of new hardware with CPUs that ship a lot of the "core" tasks out to SPE-type co-processors. That's what the big holes in the programme are for, perhaps. Sessions to get devs focussed on making hte best use of this new, but relatively specialised processing power.
Yes TIGER is extremely important to supporting such hardware. As to the wholes in the WWDC program, I don't know to be honest. The thing is that in many ways portables are a mature technology so would there really be a need to focus developers on mutlithreaded hardware? I'm still holding out hope that the real surprises are technology applied to new markets.
The tablet would be one place such that could justify a open slot. Other things like open system video hardware is another. Apple delivering an HD video server would be neat.
Quote:
On the other hand, I'm not expecting the above. It's possible, that's all. I suspect that what we will actually get will be a single core 970-based design.
Well it might be nice but I suspect that we will get something else. That is based on the power profile of 970 hardware we know about and the slim chance that the architecture can be harnessed at lower power levels.
I see PPE's as the path to future portables for a couple of reasons. One is the power/size issue. The other is the chips potential for custimization.
Dave
Quote:
Pip pip!
The person who made this post posted this on the 22nd, announcing that there would be a laptop in the next 14 days.
Lets do some math:
May 22nd + 14 days = June 6th.
Coincedentaly, this is when the WWDC keynote is. My guess is that this person has no clue what their talking about, and they are just making a guess for WWDC. It is POSSIBLE that G5 laptops could be out at WWDC...but in my opinion...highly unlikely. I wouldn't read to much into this post.
You do tease us so...
If only....
I guess only Steve knows.
Originally posted by TednDi
I guess only Steve knows.
You got that right. No TS, no MacRumors, nothin'. We got nothin'!
Originally posted by wizard69
I see PPE's as the path to future portables for a couple of reasons. One is the power/size issue. The other is the chips potential for custimization.
I think you're absolutely right, but the timing of the move is the big imponderable. If they don't have some kind of low power multi-core CPU ready now (and I agree that given the timelines for the other PPE chips that seems unlikely), then whatever laptop chip they have got up their sleeve will probably have to have a reasonable life to recoup the development costs. That puts PPE core laptop chips 18 months to two years away, I'd guess.
I wonder what the 970MP thermals are like? It probably needs Apple's watercooling at 2.5 to 3GHz, but at 1.5GHz? Or even slightly lower? Single thread performance might not show much improvement over the G4 at the same clock rate, but the extra CPU would make everything else fly. That would be a real step up from today.
On the other hand, a single core 970Mobile at 1.8 to 2.0GHz would still be a good marketing proposition. I'd buy one.
Pip pip!
Originally posted by unixguru
What was really weird was how Powerbook7,1 and Powerbook7,2 appeared in the plist for the G5 platform driver in 10.3.5 (?) last summer and then disappeared in a later release.
Was it last summer? I thought it was towards the year end, giving us all hope for January's MWSF. That might have been the machine that prompted "the mother of all thermal challenges" comment.
But it does strongly suggest that they've got a laptop chipset ready to go - and waiting for something...
Pip pip!
http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_b...ssages/12.html
"Whether it was suggested by a difficult long shot attempted in archery or shooting isn't known, but the expression 'a long shot' first arose in British racing circles some 128 years ago as a bet laid at large odds, a bold wager. NOT BY A LONG SHOT therefore means hopelessly out of reckoning. Attempts have been made to derive the saying from the slightly earlier NOT BY A LONG CHALK, which comes from the use of chalk for reckoning points in tavern games. But 'not by a long chalk' means 'not by much,' so it seems that the phrase (long shot) derives from either archery or shooting." From "Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins" by Robert Hendrickson (Facts on File, New York, 1997).
Originally posted by Bucolic Old Sir Henry
Was it last summer? I thought it was towards the year end, giving us all hope for January's MWSF. That might have been the machine that prompted "the mother of all thermal challenges" comment.
But it does strongly suggest that they've got a laptop chipset ready to go - and waiting for something...
Pip pip!
Yep, last August.
They are now encrypted by the way.
I can't believe for the life of me with all of the R&D Apple poured into the G5 with IBM, that they weren't also working in parallel on a G5 that would work for portables.
But if apple doesn't release it at WWDC, i'm getting a current powerbook. I'm starting to lose production because of not having a fast enough mac. I screwed myself on a project for 2 months because I didn't have a mac at all. Right now I'm on a g4 cube 450 with upgraded video and harddrive. I think the only way to get this fast enough is more ram (352 in it now) and another cpu.
I'm also going to be travelling a lot this summer, so I better get on this project. I definitely learned my lesson about the "waiting game".
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/...=DRPPCDUALCORE
Originally posted by wwwork
hey what about this link? seems to be what you want but not a G5
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/...=DRPPCDUALCORE
See above where I mentioned the e600mp
Originally posted by surfacenuts
Anybody: 1) Is the MPC8641D by Freescalle completed and ready for production? and 2) Would it for all intents and purposes make for a Dual G4 PB?
1: who knows. Very doubful for it to appear before the processors before it.
2: According to their roadmap it would work in a PB design. Of course that could change when it comes out. When IBM announced the 970 they said it would work in a PB as the 970fx. Obviously not the case