This whole line of argument is just plain silly. If Mac users value the traits you espouse, then apps will still be built that way. If not, then perhaps it wasn't so valuable after all.
The bottom line is that it's nice to see Apple actually giving CUSTOMERS what they want to BUY, not holding out and forcing customers to shop elsewhere out of some vague reasons of purity.
I see a multi-button mouse from Apple as a huge flashing sign in the sky that Apple is starting to "get it" and that future products will really focus on addressing customer needs instead of purists'. Go Apple!
you really don't understand they way this works. What percentage of apps are written for Windows and then ported to the Mac? It's pretty high. Since the Mac hasn't had a multi button mouse supplied with the computer, many of the companies had to revise their interface to adhere to the Mac standard. It was too difficult to use the program otherwise. Try a program in Windows that requires the rifht button, you'll see.
But now they won't have to do that anymore if Apple includes this mouse. so they might decide to just go back to the way they do it in Windows. New programs as well might end up being that way as well.
Sometimes you just don't have a choice as to which program you use. Painter is alone, as is Photoshop and many others. It isn't always a question of not using that program. You might not have much choice.
Windows users are used to these poor programming techniques. It wouldn't by good if we had to get used to them too.
And if you go to this ARs page, you will read, not only from the article, from some of the posts why two button mice are not better. Not just from "...I hate...", but from studies and such mentioned from some people in the field.
Well as a confirmed single button guy I'm impressed! Apple has given people what they want but made it so the lowest common denominator still stands for developers. Cunning.
okay, apple now owes me $50 for SPITTING COFFEE ALL OVER MY KEYBOARD THIS MORNING.
may i just say, the gloves are OFFICIALLY off.
Only coffee, that is too easy...just run the keyboard through the dishwasher (alone with NO soap of any kind) and let stand for 3 days, good and clean as new.
(in lue of a dishwasher, just run it under a hot high pressure tap, like in a bathtub.)
While we all know a bluetooth model is in the works, who knows how it will operate. I find it funny that in one corner Apple champions rechargeable batteries for your iPod but for their mouse and keyboard use AAs.
That's because they keyboard and mouse have screws where you could replace the Li Bat yourself
It's also because a keyboard recharging unit would be insane, and everyone always complains about Logitech's [vastly superior yet bulky] setup.
Wait, so is this thing actually called the Mighty Mouse? It should be called the Apple Pro mouse, now that the default optical Apple mouse is just the Apple Mouse.
To make it short, the software comes programmed for both top buttons to function as a primary button. You have to go to prefs to change it.
As most people don't go to prefs to change anything (yes, I know, except for us here), the mouse might be used as a left-click mouse by most people, even if they use the side buttons and the scroll button.
If developers believe that will happen, then they might not screw up our standards because they can't know whether people will be able to follow theirs.
How can the mouse differentiate between you pressing the 'button' and your fingers resting over the area that the buttons occupy?
check maccentral's "review" of it. apparently the mouse does rock over the center of it very slightly, so it's a combination (i guess) of both touch pad and movement. basically, it's one hell of a trick.
How can the mouse differentiate between you pressing the 'button' and your fingers resting over the area that the buttons occupy?
Pressure. The harder you press, the greater the change in signal. At some point the circuit finds the signal meets the level for a click, and it responds. This works similarly to the elevator buttons that are capacitive. If you barely touch them, they don't light. you have to press. They're more sensitive because they are recessed within the bezel so that they can't be accidentally touched, but the principle is the same.
I have to tell you though, if you're the Messiah, you should know these things already.
Only coffee, that is too easy...just run the keyboard through the dishwasher (alone with NO soap of any kind) and let stand for 3 days, good and clean as new.
(in lue of a dishwasher, just run it under a hot high pressure tap, like in a bathtub.)
he is. he also forgot to mention "no heat dry" and "cold water" if you have the option, or else you run the risk of warping the plastic. and of course, top rack only.
Electronics is cleaned in a washing booth where the equipment is placed on a turntable that revolves slowly. Fairly high pressure water with cleaning agent is sprayed onto the equipment so that it reaches all hidden surfaces. Then clean water is used. After being blown with warm air, and vibrated gently, to work out the water drops, it's placed in a drying cabinet.
I used to do this with the electronics drawers of my Kodak S printers years ago. Scopes and other equipment are also cleaned this way.
there must be a BT version in the works... I can't imagine that with today's rechargeable battery technology you couldn't get fairly long lasting charge with the extra current draw from this mouse. I love the current apple BT mouse and I'm not going to buy a USB one now (well unless they say definitely this mighty mouse will only be USB forever).
how about a hybrid USB/BT... you plug it in usb 2 to charge and use it as a wired mouse, then unplug to use wireless. ahh?
i hate to get my (or anyone else's) hopes up here, but you know who'll really like this? game developers. now they can count on 2-3 buttons per mouse, AND be able to use those weird side buttons as some sort of interesting mac-only feature.
This thing is asking to be hacked, if the capacitance touch pad has directions we could probably scroll using the button surface too, but from Apple's diagram it looks like it's just one contact only, on/off. Has anyone tried to open it up yet?
Another thing is the side button, apple has waste it with making the two sides the same button, I can't live without back/forward button, maybe it's a cost saving thing from using the old pro mouse design that clicks anyway,
and what's the deal with the force-sensing side button on the blurb. marketing doublespeak? what if it actually is force sensing, a la Wacom, that'll be swell for photoshop,
So does logitech hold the patent for the touch-scroll then? what about the click wheel on a mouse patent? this seems like a waste of touch sensor just for an on/off switch, granted, it would be terrible ergonomically to use a touch pad on top of a mouse
although this is an awesome toy, and I would undoubtedly get one, this feels like too much of engineering for a problem that wouldn't have existed in a more conventional mouse, like the
mac mice
granted, hiding the right button from novice users would be difficult without the touch sensor, making the mouse body rock from side to side is probably a bad idea, so there's probably no other way to do it, but this
Comments
Sadly this new mouse is fantastically more exciting than the iBook and Mac mini revisions last week!
Only Steve Jobs and his wonderful RDF could get people excited over a mouse of all things.
Who cares if Apple joined the party two decades late, this thing rocks! Eagerly awaiting the BT model.
Originally posted by Booga
This whole line of argument is just plain silly. If Mac users value the traits you espouse, then apps will still be built that way. If not, then perhaps it wasn't so valuable after all.
The bottom line is that it's nice to see Apple actually giving CUSTOMERS what they want to BUY, not holding out and forcing customers to shop elsewhere out of some vague reasons of purity.
I see a multi-button mouse from Apple as a huge flashing sign in the sky that Apple is starting to "get it" and that future products will really focus on addressing customer needs instead of purists'. Go Apple!
you really don't understand they way this works. What percentage of apps are written for Windows and then ported to the Mac? It's pretty high. Since the Mac hasn't had a multi button mouse supplied with the computer, many of the companies had to revise their interface to adhere to the Mac standard. It was too difficult to use the program otherwise. Try a program in Windows that requires the rifht button, you'll see.
But now they won't have to do that anymore if Apple includes this mouse. so they might decide to just go back to the way they do it in Windows. New programs as well might end up being that way as well.
Sometimes you just don't have a choice as to which program you use. Painter is alone, as is Photoshop and many others. It isn't always a question of not using that program. You might not have much choice.
Windows users are used to these poor programming techniques. It wouldn't by good if we had to get used to them too.
And if you go to this ARs page, you will read, not only from the article, from some of the posts why two button mice are not better. Not just from "...I hate...", but from studies and such mentioned from some people in the field.
http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2005/8/2/853
Originally posted by rok
okay, apple now owes me $50 for SPITTING COFFEE ALL OVER MY KEYBOARD THIS MORNING.
may i just say, the gloves are OFFICIALLY off.
Only coffee, that is too easy...just run the keyboard through the dishwasher (alone with NO soap of any kind) and let stand for 3 days, good and clean as new.
(in lue of a dishwasher, just run it under a hot high pressure tap, like in a bathtub.)
Originally posted by Xool
While we all know a bluetooth model is in the works, who knows how it will operate. I find it funny that in one corner Apple champions rechargeable batteries for your iPod but for their mouse and keyboard use AAs.
That's because they keyboard and mouse have screws where you could replace the Li Bat yourself
It's also because a keyboard recharging unit would be insane, and everyone always complains about Logitech's [vastly superior yet bulky] setup.
*checks the temperature in Hell*
Hmm, having a cold spell down there I see!
http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/edit...ouse/index.php
To make it short, the software comes programmed for both top buttons to function as a primary button. You have to go to prefs to change it.
As most people don't go to prefs to change anything (yes, I know, except for us here
If developers believe that will happen, then they might not screw up our standards because they can't know whether people will be able to follow theirs.
Originally posted by scavanger
I still like the Microsoft Mouses, far more ergonomic.
HEATHEN!
Anyone know if Apple's going to start using this as their default mouse, or discontinue the old one?
Originally posted by Messiah
How can the mouse differentiate between you pressing the 'button' and your fingers resting over the area that the buttons occupy?
check maccentral's "review" of it. apparently the mouse does rock over the center of it very slightly, so it's a combination (i guess) of both touch pad and movement. basically, it's one hell of a trick.
Originally posted by Messiah
How can the mouse differentiate between you pressing the 'button' and your fingers resting over the area that the buttons occupy?
Pressure. The harder you press, the greater the change in signal. At some point the circuit finds the signal meets the level for a click, and it responds. This works similarly to the elevator buttons that are capacitive. If you barely touch them, they don't light. you have to press. They're more sensitive because they are recessed within the bezel so that they can't be accidentally touched, but the principle is the same.
I have to tell you though, if you're the Messiah, you should know these things already.
Originally posted by a_greer
Only coffee, that is too easy...just run the keyboard through the dishwasher (alone with NO soap of any kind) and let stand for 3 days, good and clean as new.
(in lue of a dishwasher, just run it under a hot high pressure tap, like in a bathtub.)
Are you serious?
Originally posted by Jamil
Are you serious?
he is. he also forgot to mention "no heat dry" and "cold water" if you have the option, or else you run the risk of warping the plastic. and of course, top rack only.
Originally posted by Jamil
Are you serious?
I don't know if he is, but...
Electronics is cleaned in a washing booth where the equipment is placed on a turntable that revolves slowly. Fairly high pressure water with cleaning agent is sprayed onto the equipment so that it reaches all hidden surfaces. Then clean water is used. After being blown with warm air, and vibrated gently, to work out the water drops, it's placed in a drying cabinet.
I used to do this with the electronics drawers of my Kodak S printers years ago. Scopes and other equipment are also cleaned this way.
how about a hybrid USB/BT... you plug it in usb 2 to charge and use it as a wired mouse, then unplug to use wireless. ahh?
Originally posted by dirk gently
how about a hybrid USB/BT... you plug it in usb 2 to charge and use it as a wired mouse, then unplug to use wireless. ahh?
Best idea I've heard in ages! This sounds great! I'd buy a mouse like that!
Another thing is the side button, apple has waste it with making the two sides the same button, I can't live without back/forward button, maybe it's a cost saving thing from using the old pro mouse design that clicks anyway,
and what's the deal with the force-sensing side button on the blurb. marketing doublespeak? what if it actually is force sensing, a la Wacom, that'll be swell for photoshop,
So does logitech hold the patent for the touch-scroll then? what about the click wheel on a mouse patent? this seems like a waste of touch sensor just for an on/off switch, granted, it would be terrible ergonomically to use a touch pad on top of a mouse
although this is an awesome toy, and I would undoubtedly get one, this feels like too much of engineering for a problem that wouldn't have existed in a more conventional mouse, like the
mac mice
granted, hiding the right button from novice users would be difficult without the touch sensor, making the mouse body rock from side to side is probably a bad idea, so there's probably no other way to do it, but this