It is one solar system -- they don't have any faster then light technology.
I truly loved the Firefly series, but there are many things that I didn't like about Serenity:
1)Horrible plot points:
a) Loosing/hiding a planet that everyone can see with a telescope and millions of people had immigrated to. Yeah right...
b) Airborne tranquilizers that calm down 90% of the recipients, and turns the other 10% in to hyper-aggressive monsters. Sounds more like a miss-cast magic spell than a product of science (and they somehow missed a disastrous 10% side effect in the laboratory trials.)
c) Ok, even if you accept the ridiculous plot points so far, they become terribly inconsistent: They show that 90% of the population dies peacefully from apathy, but if 10% of the population turned to vicious monsters as they stated, the tranquil members of the population would have been mutilated, raped, and killed by the hyper-aggressive.
The Revers were well done on Firefly. They were the Indians roaming on the edge of the western-based solar system that terrified the settlers. In the Movie they were changed into monsters from a grad C horror flick. (The movie was supposed to be based on Firefly, not Buffy the Vampier Slayer.)
2) The Combat:
a) Turning River into a totally unrealistic killing machine was just bad. The sharp shooting she did in one of the Firefly episode was one thing, having her becoming an unbeatable hand to hand killing machine moves the film out of science fiction and into the realms of Wutan magic Kung fu movies and Buffiy the vampire slayer shows.
b)Speaking of ridiculous mystical fighting techniques: The Alliance Operative's nerve hits that paralyze the victims and stiffen them like a board so he can make a speech before killing them -- how cheesy and unrealistic can you get? Totally impossible magical attacks have no place in a science fiction setting (they were annoying enough on shows like Xena Warrior Princess).
3) The Killings
Killing off characters, especially when rapping up a series, has become a Joss Whedon trademark, and the character deaths in Serenity did not help drive the plot, but had a feeling of "look at me -- I'm Joss Whedon and I have the balls to kill main characters!"
There was also some history revisions and character modifications that I did not like, but it will only bother people who watched and enjoyed Firefly.
Firefly was one the best Science Fiction series ever done, and I really wish that its memory was not tarnished by the abomination of a movie called Serenity.
Humm, can you tell that I was somewhat disappointed by this movie...
I think getting on Joss for bad science or implausible fighting techniques sorta misses the point.
He's only doing "Sci Fi" insofar as it affords him the opportunity to tell his stories and shape his characters. Everything serves that, and if it means some things are a stretch, so be it, as long as it is emotionally telling.
River is a killing machine because it makes a cathartic contrast to her spaced out, hapless persona. She renders her mayhem with vague detachment, like she was listening to music in her head, which is a way of portraying her tragic nature-- she is no longer her own person, and doesn't fully understand what she has been made into, but once she goes she really is something of a machine.
Her scene with her brother, where she gets to thank him for looking out for her and then say "my turn" just before she lays to waste a room full of Reavers just worked, emotionally. It was satisfying, so I didn't worry about how "plausible" that might be.
Kinda the same deal with the paralyzing touch of death-- medically dubious, but very effective in portraying a certain kind of ruthlessness coupled with an unwholesome affection for style points. Whedon is very fond of the self-deluded bad guy with a flair for the dramatic ("Objects in Space" was the best episode of Firefly for its suave, insane antagonist, who bears more than a passing resemblance to the Alliance Operative in Sernity.
I agree that Whedon may be a little too enamored of killing off characters, but I think it's important to him to constantly insist that everything has consequences and costs, and that even victories are tempered with what it took to achieve them
However, acting like getting Buffy on it is a bad thing means you're a bad person and you must hang your head in shame.
On the whole Whedon/Firefly thing, go back and watch Objects in Spacewith the commentary. Some of the most honest (and telling) comments that I've heard on any commentary.
On the whole Whedon/Firefly thing, go back and watch Objects in Spacewith the commentary. Some of the most honest (and telling) comments that I've heard on any commentary.
Well.....alright, I'll give it a listen, but I'm telling you right now: if it turns out to be Joss admitting that materialism is a dead end, I'm going to be really pissed.
I think getting on Joss for bad science or implausible fighting techniques sorta misses the point.
He's only doing "Sci Fi" insofar as it affords him the opportunity to tell his stories and shape his characters. Everything serves that, and if it means some things are a stretch, so be it, as long as it is emotionally telling.
River is a killing machine because it makes a cathartic contrast to her spaced out, hapless persona. She renders her mayhem with vague detachment, like she was listening to music in her head, which is a way of portraying her tragic nature-- she is no longer her own person, and doesn't fully understand what she has been made into, but once she goes she really is something of a machine.
You can have the persona switch without upping her combat abilities to superhero levels. Making her as deadly as Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon would have done well to show the change. Making her into The Terminator was just Josh indulging in his female teenage superhero fetish.
Quote:
Her scene with her brother, where she gets to thank him for looking out for her and then say "my turn" just before she lays to waste a room full of Reavers just worked, emotionally. It was satisfying, so I didn't worry about how "plausible" that might be.
But it would have been much more satisfying if she has not be upped to the impossible superpowers (the implausibility detracted from an otherwise emotional and very touching moment).
Quote:
Kinda the same deal with the paralyzing touch of death-- medically dubious, but very effective in portraying a certain kind of ruthlessness coupled with an unwholesome affection for style points. Whedon is very fond of the self-deluded bad guy with a flair for the dramatic ("Objects in Space" was the best episode of Firefly for its suave, insane antagonist, who bears more than a passing resemblance to the Alliance Operative in Sernity.
The paralyzing touch of death is just hack writing and I expect better from the likes of JW. "I want to have the main bad guy give a speech to show how really bad he is before he offs the guy. Humm, I know! I'll just give him the 'paralyzing touch of death?' so I don't have to do any real writing." "Objects in Space" was 10 times better than Serenity (and it is not my favorite episode).
Quote:
I agree that Whedon may be a little too enamored of killing off characters, but I think it's important to him to constantly insist that everything has consequences and costs, and that even victories are tempered with what it took to achieve them
However, acting like getting Buffy on it is a bad thing means you're a bad person and you must hang your head in shame.
Actually, I am a big fan of Buffy, and Angel for that matter, and I was sorry to see them go. Serenity is definitely Joss Whedon's weakest work, which surprised me since Firerfly was so damn good. I have a feeling that Tim Minear was a big influences on Firefly, and I think that Serenity would have been a much better movie with his collaboration, but we will never know.
Now that I think about it, "Mars Attacks" was pretty bad. Fortunately I only saw it once and that was a long time ago. I don't think I could bear to watch it again.
Well.....alright, I'll give it a listen, but I'm telling you right now: if it turns out to be Joss admitting that materialism is a dead end, I'm going to be really pissed.
You're safe -- he admits that Sartre's Nausea was the most influential book in his life.
I just watched that over the holiday. Man. It was far, far worse than I ever imagined it would be.
Yah but the alien machines were pretty bad ass when they popped up from the ground and vaporized people. Of course, the plot was a total sieve, and the family angst dialog alone ruined it completely for most people. Maybe if Zenu the Second hadn't been the main character, it would've worked better.
Minus said dialog it at least would've been bearable for most people. Personally I would've liked to see more destruction and mayhem.
But that's not the one I want scrubbed from my cranial region. No, that distinction belongs to Random Hearts. The biggest POS Harrison Ford ever took part in. That movie was torture.
They say "found and populated a new galaxy" in the series intro bit.
Joss Whedon has written that it is a huge single solar system that has dozens of planets and hundreds of moons. He has also stated that it took humans a long time to get there and that generations were born and died on the colony ships before ever reaching their destination.
It is an interesting setting, and it more grounded in real world science than most sf tv shows: as far as we know FTL is not possible and firefly avoids that nicely. On the other hand, it makes a few episodes somewhat problematic.
You can have the persona switch without upping her combat abilities to superhero levels. Making her as deadly as Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon would have done well to show the change. Making her into The Terminator was just Josh indulging in his female teenage superhero fetish.
Quite possibly. I personally dig the female teenage superhero fetish (although let's bear in mind that it's a massively fucked up female teenage superhero fetish, which gives it a certain charm).
Quote:
But it would have been much more satisfying if she has not be upped to the impossible superpowers (the implausibility detracted from an otherwise emotional and very touching moment).
Again, maybe, but then Joss has never been one to shy away from going nuts with his female teenage superheroes, ala "dark Willow" on Buffy or Fred's transformation into evil goddess on "Angel".
Quote:
The paralyzing touch of death is just hack writing and I expect better from the likes of JW. "I want to have the main bad guy give a speech to show how really bad he is before he offs the guy. Humm, I know! I'll just give him the 'paralyzing touch of death?' so I don't have to do any real writing." "Objects in Space" was 10 times better than Serenity (and it is not my favorite episode).
But Joss's bad guys always indicate their nefariousness through ghastly doings. The idea of being held powerless, knowing you are about to die slowly, while having to listen to some asshole make a self mythologizing speech strikes me as fairly nefarious. Different strokes, I reckon.
Quote:
Actually, I am a big fan of Buffy, and Angel for that matter, and I was sorry to see them go. Serenity is definitely Joss Whedon's weakest work, which surprised me since Firerfly was so damn good. I have a feeling that Tim Minear was a big influences on Firefly, and I think that Serenity would have been a much better movie with his collaboration, but we will never know.
There may be something to that, but a think a larger problem is that Whedon was obliged to shoe-horn his customary long narrative evolution into a two hour movie. Almost certainly some of what is in Firefly was originally conceived as the pay-off for two or three years of hints, asides, baffling events and portentous developments.
Which is why I hope he returns to television (if it will have him)-- working up a slowing evolving mythology that deepens and gains resonance as it accumulates bruising detail is clearly what the guy was born for.
I wonder if he could ever make a deal with HBO? Would something Buffy like with cursing and sex make any sense, or is part of the charm the way he works within fairly conventional forms?
Which is why I hope he returns to television (if it will have him)-- working up a slowing evolving mythology that deepens and gains resonance as it accumulates bruising detail is clearly what the guy was born for.
Comments
Originally posted by Res
It is one solar system -- they don't have any faster then light technology.
I truly loved the Firefly series, but there are many things that I didn't like about Serenity:
1)Horrible plot points:
a) Loosing/hiding a planet that everyone can see with a telescope and millions of people had immigrated to. Yeah right...
b) Airborne tranquilizers that calm down 90% of the recipients, and turns the other 10% in to hyper-aggressive monsters. Sounds more like a miss-cast magic spell than a product of science (and they somehow missed a disastrous 10% side effect in the laboratory trials.)
c) Ok, even if you accept the ridiculous plot points so far, they become terribly inconsistent: They show that 90% of the population dies peacefully from apathy, but if 10% of the population turned to vicious monsters as they stated, the tranquil members of the population would have been mutilated, raped, and killed by the hyper-aggressive.
The Revers were well done on Firefly. They were the Indians roaming on the edge of the western-based solar system that terrified the settlers. In the Movie they were changed into monsters from a grad C horror flick. (The movie was supposed to be based on Firefly, not Buffy the Vampier Slayer.)
2) The Combat:
a) Turning River into a totally unrealistic killing machine was just bad. The sharp shooting she did in one of the Firefly episode was one thing, having her becoming an unbeatable hand to hand killing machine moves the film out of science fiction and into the realms of Wutan magic Kung fu movies and Buffiy the vampire slayer shows.
b)Speaking of ridiculous mystical fighting techniques: The Alliance Operative's nerve hits that paralyze the victims and stiffen them like a board so he can make a speech before killing them -- how cheesy and unrealistic can you get? Totally impossible magical attacks have no place in a science fiction setting (they were annoying enough on shows like Xena Warrior Princess).
3) The Killings
Killing off characters, especially when rapping up a series, has become a Joss Whedon trademark, and the character deaths in Serenity did not help drive the plot, but had a feeling of "look at me -- I'm Joss Whedon and I have the balls to kill main characters!"
There was also some history revisions and character modifications that I did not like, but it will only bother people who watched and enjoyed Firefly.
Firefly was one the best Science Fiction series ever done, and I really wish that its memory was not tarnished by the abomination of a movie called Serenity.
Humm, can you tell that I was somewhat disappointed by this movie...
I think getting on Joss for bad science or implausible fighting techniques sorta misses the point.
He's only doing "Sci Fi" insofar as it affords him the opportunity to tell his stories and shape his characters. Everything serves that, and if it means some things are a stretch, so be it, as long as it is emotionally telling.
River is a killing machine because it makes a cathartic contrast to her spaced out, hapless persona. She renders her mayhem with vague detachment, like she was listening to music in her head, which is a way of portraying her tragic nature-- she is no longer her own person, and doesn't fully understand what she has been made into, but once she goes she really is something of a machine.
Her scene with her brother, where she gets to thank him for looking out for her and then say "my turn" just before she lays to waste a room full of Reavers just worked, emotionally. It was satisfying, so I didn't worry about how "plausible" that might be.
Kinda the same deal with the paralyzing touch of death-- medically dubious, but very effective in portraying a certain kind of ruthlessness coupled with an unwholesome affection for style points. Whedon is very fond of the self-deluded bad guy with a flair for the dramatic ("Objects in Space" was the best episode of Firefly for its suave, insane antagonist, who bears more than a passing resemblance to the Alliance Operative in Sernity.
I agree that Whedon may be a little too enamored of killing off characters, but I think it's important to him to constantly insist that everything has consequences and costs, and that even victories are tempered with what it took to achieve them
However, acting like getting Buffy on it is a bad thing means you're a bad person and you must hang your head in shame.
Originally posted by dmz
On the whole Whedon/Firefly thing, go back and watch Objects in Space with the commentary. Some of the most honest (and telling) comments that I've heard on any commentary.
Well.....alright, I'll give it a listen, but I'm telling you right now: if it turns out to be Joss admitting that materialism is a dead end, I'm going to be really pissed.
Originally posted by addabox
I think getting on Joss for bad science or implausible fighting techniques sorta misses the point.
He's only doing "Sci Fi" insofar as it affords him the opportunity to tell his stories and shape his characters. Everything serves that, and if it means some things are a stretch, so be it, as long as it is emotionally telling.
River is a killing machine because it makes a cathartic contrast to her spaced out, hapless persona. She renders her mayhem with vague detachment, like she was listening to music in her head, which is a way of portraying her tragic nature-- she is no longer her own person, and doesn't fully understand what she has been made into, but once she goes she really is something of a machine.
You can have the persona switch without upping her combat abilities to superhero levels. Making her as deadly as Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon would have done well to show the change. Making her into The Terminator was just Josh indulging in his female teenage superhero fetish.
Her scene with her brother, where she gets to thank him for looking out for her and then say "my turn" just before she lays to waste a room full of Reavers just worked, emotionally. It was satisfying, so I didn't worry about how "plausible" that might be.
But it would have been much more satisfying if she has not be upped to the impossible superpowers (the implausibility detracted from an otherwise emotional and very touching moment).
Kinda the same deal with the paralyzing touch of death-- medically dubious, but very effective in portraying a certain kind of ruthlessness coupled with an unwholesome affection for style points. Whedon is very fond of the self-deluded bad guy with a flair for the dramatic ("Objects in Space" was the best episode of Firefly for its suave, insane antagonist, who bears more than a passing resemblance to the Alliance Operative in Sernity.
The paralyzing touch of death is just hack writing and I expect better from the likes of JW. "I want to have the main bad guy give a speech to show how really bad he is before he offs the guy. Humm, I know! I'll just give him the 'paralyzing touch of death?' so I don't have to do any real writing." "Objects in Space" was 10 times better than Serenity (and it is not my favorite episode).
I agree that Whedon may be a little too enamored of killing off characters, but I think it's important to him to constantly insist that everything has consequences and costs, and that even victories are tempered with what it took to achieve them
However, acting like getting Buffy on it is a bad thing means you're a bad person and you must hang your head in shame.
Actually, I am a big fan of Buffy, and Angel for that matter, and I was sorry to see them go. Serenity is definitely Joss Whedon's weakest work, which surprised me since Firerfly was so damn good. I have a feeling that Tim Minear was a big influences on Firefly, and I think that Serenity would have been a much better movie with his collaboration, but we will never know.
Originally posted by Res
It is one solar system -- they don't have any faster then light technology.
They say "found and populated a new galaxy" in the series intro bit.
Originally posted by addabox
Well.....alright, I'll give it a listen, but I'm telling you right now: if it turns out to be Joss admitting that materialism is a dead end, I'm going to be really pissed.
You're safe -- he admits that Sartre's Nausea was the most influential book in his life.
Originally posted by midwinter
I just watched that over the holiday. Man. It was far, far worse than I ever imagined it would be.
Yah but the alien machines were pretty bad ass when they popped up from the ground and vaporized people.
Minus said dialog it at least would've been bearable for most people. Personally I would've liked to see more destruction and mayhem.
But that's not the one I want scrubbed from my cranial region. No, that distinction belongs to Random Hearts. The biggest POS Harrison Ford ever took part in. That movie was torture.
Originally posted by e1618978
They say "found and populated a new galaxy" in the series intro bit.
Ahh! but they reference a new solar system in the movie intro. (I just watched it again yesterday)
Originally posted by e1618978
They say "found and populated a new galaxy" in the series intro bit.
Joss Whedon has written that it is a huge single solar system that has dozens of planets and hundreds of moons. He has also stated that it took humans a long time to get there and that generations were born and died on the colony ships before ever reaching their destination.
It is an interesting setting, and it more grounded in real world science than most sf tv shows: as far as we know FTL is not possible and firefly avoids that nicely. On the other hand, it makes a few episodes somewhat problematic.
Originally posted by Res
You can have the persona switch without upping her combat abilities to superhero levels. Making her as deadly as Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon would have done well to show the change. Making her into The Terminator was just Josh indulging in his female teenage superhero fetish.
Quite possibly. I personally dig the female teenage superhero fetish (although let's bear in mind that it's a massively fucked up female teenage superhero fetish, which gives it a certain charm).
But it would have been much more satisfying if she has not be upped to the impossible superpowers (the implausibility detracted from an otherwise emotional and very touching moment).
Again, maybe, but then Joss has never been one to shy away from going nuts with his female teenage superheroes, ala "dark Willow" on Buffy or Fred's transformation into evil goddess on "Angel".
The paralyzing touch of death is just hack writing and I expect better from the likes of JW. "I want to have the main bad guy give a speech to show how really bad he is before he offs the guy. Humm, I know! I'll just give him the 'paralyzing touch of death?' so I don't have to do any real writing." "Objects in Space" was 10 times better than Serenity (and it is not my favorite episode).
But Joss's bad guys always indicate their nefariousness through ghastly doings. The idea of being held powerless, knowing you are about to die slowly, while having to listen to some asshole make a self mythologizing speech strikes me as fairly nefarious. Different strokes, I reckon.
Actually, I am a big fan of Buffy, and Angel for that matter, and I was sorry to see them go. Serenity is definitely Joss Whedon's weakest work, which surprised me since Firerfly was so damn good. I have a feeling that Tim Minear was a big influences on Firefly, and I think that Serenity would have been a much better movie with his collaboration, but we will never know.
There may be something to that, but a think a larger problem is that Whedon was obliged to shoe-horn his customary long narrative evolution into a two hour movie. Almost certainly some of what is in Firefly was originally conceived as the pay-off for two or three years of hints, asides, baffling events and portentous developments.
Which is why I hope he returns to television (if it will have him)-- working up a slowing evolving mythology that deepens and gains resonance as it accumulates bruising detail is clearly what the guy was born for.
I wonder if he could ever make a deal with HBO? Would something Buffy like with cursing and sex make any sense, or is part of the charm the way he works within fairly conventional forms?
Originally posted by addabox
Which is why I hope he returns to television (if it will have him)-- working up a slowing evolving mythology that deepens and gains resonance as it accumulates bruising detail is clearly what the guy was born for.
and have it all culminate in...
Serenity II - The Wrath of Mrs. Reynolds