Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD (2006)

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Comments

  • Reply 521 of 2106
    telomartelomar Posts: 1,804member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kupan787

    Not sure if this is a good sign, or a sign that Toshiba under produced, but of all the Best Buys in the Sacramento region (which is 10 different stores, spanning from Elk Grove, to Roseville, to even one in Nevada), there is only 1 HD-DVD player available.



    Toshiba simply isn't producing a lot. 10 000 for their initial run and that was from launch until late May or something with more due around June.
  • Reply 522 of 2106
    elixirelixir Posts: 782member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by onlooker

    OK maybe I just don't find it as compelling as you do.



    but what is it about the PS3 that you find compelling? their tryign to do what the 360 has already done and what the wii is going to do.





    is it just the game titles you enjoy?
  • Reply 523 of 2106
    placeboplacebo Posts: 5,767member
    Well, it's got multiplay that isn't locked within a little Sony sphere of internet like Microsoft's is, better hardware, and supports Blu-ray. These are features that are important to some people.
  • Reply 524 of 2106
    elixirelixir Posts: 782member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Placebo

    Well, it's got multiplay that isn't locked within a little Sony sphere of internet like Microsoft's is, better hardware, and supports Blu-ray. These are features that are important to some people.



    multiplay? what are u talking about? not locked within a sphere?



    are you talking about xbox live which is regarded as the greatest online play to date?



    please explain





    there isn't any proof having blu-ray in 2007 will be worth a dime.





    better hardware? i din't know you cracked open a ps3. ooh do you mean useless numbers and specs sony displays on their powerpoint?
  • Reply 525 of 2106
    e1618978e1618978 Posts: 6,075member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by bitemymac

    I'm sure DVDO unit will perform very well, but still the source is SD and nothing's going to change that unless you feed HD to DVDO unit.



    It is so good, I don't think that you would be able to tell the difference unless you have a 16' screen or something.



    Another advantage is that you can use it with analog HDTVs - I have an analog-only CRT projector.
  • Reply 526 of 2106
    marzetta7marzetta7 Posts: 1,323member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by bitemymac

    I was at the local BB/Magnolia and they did have the $799 version HD-DVD player in stock. It was tempting now even more than ever after seeing released specs on the PS3 and the 1st gen BD player specs.... along with movies in MPEG2 on single layer BD just spoiled all expectations on the BD. However, HD DVD seems to have the upper hand on the technology now since it stores 5GB more and all movies in VC1 1080p24 format.



    It just seems like this HD format movie era rollout just went sour for everyone. BD now has crippled movies on the single layer BD, but should have more studio support. However, HD DVD will most likely have better movie contents but only few movies are available..... but the real deal breaker is the 1080i limited half-assed job toshiba players. This gives me no option but just wait for something better from non-toshiba brand or not to get in at all. I thought the HD war was supposed to benefit the end users, but looks like it's not helping anyone, but those who happily bought half broken toshiba players with 6 HD DVD movies?......



    I think the HD format is making a wrong turn...... with too many broken promisses...




    You are incorrect regarding the availability of dual-layered movies upon Blu-ray rollout in June. HD DVD will NOT have a 5GB advantage. 50 GB movies will indeed be available and it looks like Sony movies will all be 50 GB dual-layered. This is a subject we touched on earlier, please see link...



    http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news...Ultraviolet/35



    Moreover, I don't know how you come to the opinion that HD DVD will "most likely have better movie contents" considering they will have more Hollywood support.



    Also, what is wrong with the PS3 specs? Full 1080P not good enough for you? Also, the codec that is used for a movie is up to the studio, so you'll probably find that MPEG4/H.264 will be used on some movies, so you can't say that all Blu-ray movies will somehow be crippled. How do you come to such a conclusion?



    I'll, also add, once again that even though HD DVD discs store movies in 1080P, the Toshiba players are only capable of 1080i, just like the lower spec PS3 at the same price of $499.



    I think Blu-ray indeed has the upper hand going forward as it will be and is the content and hardware support that will trump the HD DVD competition.
  • Reply 527 of 2106
    placeboplacebo Posts: 5,767member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Elixir

    multiplay? what are u talking about? not locked within a sphere?



    are you talking about xbox live which is regarded as the greatest online play to date?



    please explain





    there isn't any proof having blu-ray in 2007 will be worth a dime.





    better hardware? i din't know you cracked open a ps3. ooh do you mean useless numbers and specs sony displays on their powerpoint?




    1. Xbox Live is completely blocked off from any other form of network play. A PS3 can play online against a PC, but Microsoft has kept Xboxes contrained within a limited sphere of access. This is one reason Unreal Tournament 2007 is not coming to the Xbox 360 as it is to the PS3.



    2. No, there isn't, but hey, that appeals to some people. I didn't say I saw their logic.



    3. Cracking open a PS3 wouldn't really tell you much, would it, unless you have some extrasensory ability allowing you to perceive the zomgwtfbbwfasternesslol of a processor by glancing at it. But yes, so far it would seem that the PS3 is superior to the Xbox 360, due to the amount of R&D funnelled into it, its unique hardware design, and the fact that they've had another year over Microsoft to perfect it. PC games pulled over onto the 360 have to have textures reduced, while PS3 games might even run faster than their PC counterparts for a few months until the hardware catches up again.
  • Reply 528 of 2106
    bitemymacbitemymac Posts: 1,147member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by marzetta7

    You are incorrect regarding the availability of dual-layered movies upon Blu-ray rollout in June. HD DVD will NOT have a 5GB advantage. 50 GB movies will indeed be available and it looks like Sony movies will all be 50 GB dual-layered. This is a subject we touched on earlier, please see link...



    http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news...Ultraviolet/35



    Moreover, I don't know how you come to the opinion that HD DVD will "most likely have better movie contents" considering they will have more Hollywood support.



    Also, what is wrong with the PS3 specs? Full 1080P not good enough for you? Also, the codec that is used for a movie is up to the studio, so you'll probably find that MPEG4/H.264 will be used on some movies, so you can't say that all Blu-ray movies will somehow be crippled. How do you come to such a conclusion?



    I'll, also add, once again that even though HD DVD discs store movies in 1080P, the Toshiba players are only capable of 1080i, just like the lower spec PS3 at the same price of $499.



    I think Blu-ray indeed has the upper hand going forward as it will be and is the content and hardware support that will trump the HD DVD competition.




    thanks for the link to the sony dual layer move release PR site. Maybe I've read too much into the FUD on BD title releases online.... However, on rest of your post.... I'm not sure what you're trying to say....other than repeat what I had already said.....



    I think BD will only have a upper hand when all BD movie titles are release on dual layer including all the promised HD freatures... I'm hoping for this as well....



    BTW.... have you checked rest of the BD title release by Sony..... they're all single layer...... damn, I hope it's a typo.
  • Reply 529 of 2106
    elixirelixir Posts: 782member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Placebo

    1. Xbox Live is completely blocked off from any other form of network play. A PS3 can play online against a PC, but Microsoft has kept Xboxes contrained within a limited sphere of access. This is one reason Unreal Tournament 2007 is not coming to the Xbox 360 as it is to the PS3.



    2. No, there isn't, but hey, that appeals to some people. I didn't say I saw their logic.



    3. Cracking open a PS3 wouldn't really tell you much, would it, unless you have some extrasensory ability allowing you to perceive the zomgwtfbbwfasternesslol of a processor by glancing at it. But yes, so far it would seem that the PS3 is superior to the Xbox 360, due to the amount of R&D funnelled into it, its unique hardware design, and the fact that they've had another year over Microsoft to perfect it. PC games pulled over onto the 360 have to have textures reduced, while PS3 games might even run faster than their PC counterparts for a few months until the hardware catches up again.




    wtf are you talking about? did you not see the microsoft conference? xbox live is going to be able to play cross platform games with people on windows.



    they even demonstrated a buddy list option, sending invites to pc's from xboxs and vice versa.





    http://media.games.ign.com/articles/...80/vids_1.html



    check day 3 opinions.



    ps3 clearly dissapointed in the eyes of both insiders and fans.
  • Reply 530 of 2106
    marzetta7marzetta7 Posts: 1,323member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by bitemymac

    thanks for the link to the sony dual layer move release PR site. Maybe I've read too much into the FUD on BD title releases online.... However, on rest of your post.... I'm not sure what you're trying to say....other than repeat what I had already said.....





    That's the thing, I found your previous post sort of confusing. My statement...
    Quote:

    Moreover, I don't know how you come to the opinion that HD DVD will "most likely have better movie contents" considering they will have more Hollywood support.



    This was in response to your statement...
    Quote:

    However, HD DVD will most likely have better movie contents but only few movies are available.....



    Again, how do you have better movie contents with fewer studios supporting your format? Maybe, I need to know what you mean by "movie contents."



    My statement...
    Quote:

    Also, what is wrong with the PS3 specs? Full 1080P not good enough for you? Also, the codec that is used for a movie is up to the studio, so you'll probably find that MPEG4/H.264 will be used on some movies, so you can't say that all Blu-ray movies will somehow be crippled. How do you come to such a conclusion?



    This was in response to your statement here...
    Quote:

    It was tempting now even more than ever after seeing released specs on the PS3 and the 1st gen BD player specs.... along with movies in MPEG2 on single layer BD just spoiled all expectations on the BD...BD now has crippled movies on the single layer BD...



    As far as my statement...
    Quote:

    I'll, also add, once again that even though HD DVD discs store movies in 1080P, the Toshiba players are only capable of 1080i, just like the lower spec PS3 at the same price of $499.



    This was in response to your statement...
    Quote:

    However, HD DVD seems to have the upper hand on the technology now since it stores 5GB more and all movies in VC1 1080p24 format.



    I just fail to see how they have any perceived upper hand as far as codecs are concerned, nor with their stored resolution on their disc since they can only output to 1080i. But again, indeed you stated that the Toshiba player did only output to 1080i, so that is why I'm confused a bit by your earlier post. That is, how do you consider HD DVD having an upper hand and at the same time stating that HD DVD can only output to 1080i?



    I don't know, it just seemed a lot of the statements in your previous post appeared contradictory to me, that's all. In any case, I hope I'm a bit clearer know.
  • Reply 531 of 2106
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,437member
    HD-DVD's only advantage is price. The format must win based on efficiency of production in hardware and software.



    Qualitatively both formats are more dependent on having good masters to encode from than any intrinsic techno benefit.
  • Reply 532 of 2106
    bitemymacbitemymac Posts: 1,147member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by marzetta7



    I don't know, it just seemed a lot of the statements in your previous post appeared contradictory to me, that's all. In any case, I hope I'm a bit clearer know.




    How can I be contradictory, if I'm not siding with either BD or HD.... I was just listing all the options on both formats released or to be released and how each format seems to shoot themselves on the foot.



    Simply put.....



    1) the current HD-DVD contents in VC-1 1080p24 format is theorectically superior format for movie contents with improved PQ than BD movie title format on the single layer disc stored in MPEG2.(Looks like we'll have alot of BD movie titles in single layer)



    2) Toshiba HD-DVD hardware sucks. It's buggy as hell, and only outputs 1080i while all the movies are in 1080p24.



    3) HD-DVD lacks studio supports.



    4) BD movies on single layer discs will result inferior PQ than HD-DVD. Just the codec itself can explain why... MPEG2 vs. H264/MPEG4/VC-1 on 25GB space..... do the math.



    5) BD hardware may be better than current Toshiba, but who knows?



    6) PS3 at $599 as a BD player isn't that cheap compare to $499 HD-DVD player, possible price drop to $299/$399 by November or revised/improved models at cheaper price? No one knows how PS3 performs as a BD player, and I wouldn't think it would be better than 1st generation stand alone BD players.



    7) BD has more studio supports....



    I think the bottom line decsion maker is when either format provides superior movie PQ and many available title releases.....



    So, the battle is still on......



    BD ----------- Single layer movies in MPEG2(inferior PQ, no MPEG4/H264 for release), more studio support...

    HD-DVD ----------- superior PQ in VC-1 codec, lacks studio support...



    At this point... I'd rather have HD-DVD getting support from more studio since the the movies themself are in highest prestine HD 1080p24 format.
  • Reply 533 of 2106
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by bitemymac

    4) BD movies on single layer discs will result inferior PQ than HD-DVD. Just the codec itself can explain why... MPEG2 vs. H264/MPEG4/VC-1 on 25GB space..... do the math.



    MPEG-4 AVC and VC-1 achieve better compression because they use psychovisual modeling and other techniques that discard a ton of video information. At a high enough bitrate, MPEG-2 will be superior. If they don't do BD-50 right at launch, I imagine many longer movies will be two disc titles to achieve the necessary bitrate.
  • Reply 534 of 2106
    bitemymacbitemymac Posts: 1,147member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Eugene

    MPEG-4 AVC and VC-1 achieve better compression because they use psychovisual modeling and other techniques that discard a ton of video information. At a high enough bitrate, MPEG-2 will be superior. If they don't do BD-50 right at launch, I imagine many longer movies will be two disc titles to achieve the necessary bitrate.



    Yup, I was hoping for MPEG-2 on BD-50 on the inital release titles, but we'll all be disappointed to see MPEG-2 on BD-25 instead on the initial releases. I hope the studios prove everyone wrong, including myself, and release the BD-50 titles, though. If majority release is on BD-50, I'll definately vouche for pioneer elite or sony BD player by July or August.
  • Reply 535 of 2106
    4fx4fx Posts: 258member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Eugene

    MPEG-4 AVC and VC-1 achieve better compression because they use psychovisual modeling and other techniques that discard a ton of video information. At a high enough bitrate, MPEG-2 will be superior. If they don't do BD-50 right at launch, I imagine many longer movies will be two disc titles to achieve the necessary bitrate.



    Why have they said they wont be using either on initial release? What the heck is wrong with them?
  • Reply 536 of 2106
    bitemymacbitemymac Posts: 1,147member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by 4fx

    Why have they said they wont be using either on initial release? What the heck is wrong with them?



    Some say cost and the other say bug in dual layer printing....... I'd say Sony was pushing vaporeware/techology too early prior to execution. I've heard quad layer is possible, but the dual layer isn't....
  • Reply 537 of 2106
    blackcatblackcat Posts: 697member
    It seems Toshs effort is a bit crap...



    HD-A1 a Disgrace
  • Reply 538 of 2106
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,437member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Blackcat

    It seems Toshs effort is a bit crap...



    HD-A1 a Disgrace






    Charlie White is a moron. Be suspect of his reviews
  • Reply 539 of 2106
    e1618978e1618978 Posts: 6,075member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    Charlie White is a moron. Be suspect of his reviews



    I read the review, and he does not sound like a moron. In any case, a DVD player that cannot be connected easily (even by a moron) is a problem.



    His unit took a long time to boot up, and a long time (45 seconds) to recognize an inserted disk. How could his being a moron make a difference here?



    He didn't like the unit's look - actually, I like big boxes and heavy stuff, so I disagree with his assessment of the asthetics.



    The remote had too many buttons, no back light, and illogically placed buttons. Actually, being a moron might be an advantage in remote reviewing - super smart guys like crappy unusable things like Linux and 100-button remotes. How smart to you have to be to notice that the remote was cost-reduced to the point of total sh*t?



    The fan noise was way too loud - if he was smarter would it have been quieter?



    He seemed smart enough to be able to fix the multiple HDMI crashes by re-seating the cable, in any case...
  • Reply 540 of 2106
    blackcatblackcat Posts: 697member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    Charlie White is a moron. Be suspect of his reviews



    That may be so, I've no idea, but a reader backs up his observations.
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