[B]But actual studies of these things (consumer reports I think comes to mind) consistently show apple's machines to have fewer issues.
Fewer than who? That adds to the context.
Quote:
It's just that we're on an apple board, and we talk about them all the time.
The whining, the excessive heat, the thermal problems, screen flicker issues, the trackpad issues, the iBook logic boards, the iMac logic board problems, the iMac whine problems, the iMac G5 Rev. A charade, these are not things that are isolated to this board, or any other Apple board for that matter.
These are real issues, and they need to be acknowledged as such. Apple may very well have less issues than Dell or Gateway or whatever, but a Rev. B Apple notebook will not solve all problems. It will solve some, but introduce new ones. That's just the way it is.
The whining, the excessive heat, the thermal problems, screen flicker issues, the trackpad issues, the iBook logic boards, the iMac logic board problems, the iMac whine problems, the iMac G5 Rev. A charade, these are not things that are isolated to this board, or any other Apple board for that matter.
These are real issues, and they need to be acknowledged as such. Apple may very well have less issues than Dell or Gateway or whatever, but a Rev. B Apple notebook will not solve all problems. It will solve some, but introduce new ones. That's just the way it is.
Of course that's the way it is! Certainly apple should always be striving for better quality control, but it's hard to fault them too much when they in general lead the industry in that regard.
I am an electronics engineer, and I can tell you, it is a non-disputable fact that the amount of thermal paste illustrated in that photo is around two orders of magnitude too much.
Yes, overclockers too are laughing their asses off over this. Complete wrong way to apply thermal paste.
Originally posted by Mr. H
.....and possibly in the MacBook if that it how much they are using in production.....
In this MacBook dissection the thermal paste looks much thinner and properly applied:
I'm kind of nervous. I ordered a black MacBook the day they came out, and it's already been shipped. I don't live near an Apple Store, so, if anything goes wrong I'd have to mail it back to them.
I'm kind of nervous. I ordered a black MacBook the day they came out, and it's already been shipped. I don't live near an Apple Store, so, if anything goes wrong I'd have to mail it back to them.
Nervous about what? People complaining on this board? Isn't that what everyone on this does?
I picked up a MB last night. It's my 6th Apple laptop. I've never had a problem with any of them.
Does the glossy screen suck outside? Yes. But so has every laptop I've ever used outside...as well as every computer screen and TV for that matter.
Does it get hot? Yes. But so did my 400 MHz Titanium G4. And my 1.33 GHz G4 PB 12". It's a computer. They get hot. The last laptop I do not remember getting hot was my PB 160. It ran at 16 MHz or so.
Please do not let the people posting here run your life.
Funny that. I used a ThinkPad T60 today at work, same processor, thin and black, edited images all day long in PS, and you know what? It didn't get hot. At all. It was always cool, and the temperature was around 45 C.
He got a bad unit, but he just had to get the usual Windroid bullshit complaints in. He probably complains if his new car has the gas filler pipe on the opposite side of his old car.
- how do I "maximize" the window? OMG I want it MAXIMIZED!!!! Just like on WINDOWS!! OMG!!! (you mean "full screen", right? That's a useless function. If you mean "filling the whole viewable area", just resize the damn thing. What do you think that resize corner at the lower right is for? Sheesh.)
- OMG how do I take a screenshot OMG there is no PRINT SCREEN key OMG!!!!! (Try the "Help" menu. Were you waiting for the computer to put up a dialog saying "If you wish to take a screen shot, press command-shift-3" every time you open a new web page? How about a "Screenshot Wizard?")
I'm shocked that he didn't say "OMG why doesn't hitting Enter open a file OMG WTF?"
While OS X shouldn't act like Windows but be a prettier OS, I think it is almost a plain fact that Apple plays the "not invented here" game with a few things. They seem to have to be different just for the sake of being different.
The behavior of that green button isn't consistent across many apps, using the resize item in the corner is overly mousy especially if you want to move the upper or left edge rather than the lower and right edge of a window.
I think the two button printscreen operation makes more sense than some obtuse three or four letter key combination.
The fullscreen thingy is something that I completely disagree with Apple UI people and their engineers. If I want my window to cover 1/4 of my window, I'll resize it as such. You have cleverly left me with ways of doing so, and I'll use them if I need to.
But when I click on a button that is supposed to maximize the window to cover my whole screen (such as a movie playing in QuickTime.app for example), I want it to cover the entire screen because I do not want to be distracted by my Thriller desktop picture. It's simple, really. When I want to focus on one thing, I don't want to have pics and folders and icons and stuff in the background to distract me. That's why I maximize my window, to cover the whole screen, so I can maximize my focus and thus maximize my productivity.
I don't need to be looking at 4 different movies at the same time. Nor do I need 4 different browser windows at the same time. I need 1 browser, 1 movie and 1 text editor. If I know that I'll be copy pasting between them, I will smarten up to the whole resize your window thing going on around the campus and resize my windows. But I usually watch 1 movie, browse with 1 window (blessed be thy tabs) and write a paper in 1 word processor window. Therefore, when I hit the green button, maximize the damn screen. will ya?
But when I click on a button that is supposed to maximize the window to cover my whole screen
The zoom button isn't designed to maximize. Never was. I suppose you could add a separate maximize button.
Quote:
That's why I maximize my window, to cover the whole screen, so I can maximize my focus and thus maximize my productivity.
I can understand that argument of distraction, but the thing is, a GUI was designed so you could interact between various windows of (in case of multitasking) various applications.
Mac OS X briefly had a single-window mode which is closer to what you want. Any non-focussed window gets minimized.
Quote:
If I know that I'll be copy pasting between them, I will smarten up to the whole resize your window thing going on around the campus and resize my windows.
But you shouldn't have to. The green button resizes the windows to a size where you can comfortably interact between them (if it doesn't, your app wasn't done well).
A maximize button is a different thing altogether.
Funny that. I used a ThinkPad T60 today at work, same processor, thin and black, edited images all day long in PS, and you know what? It didn't get hot. At all. It was always cool, and the temperature was around 45 C.
It's a computer though. They get hot.
And I'm calling your bluff. The last IBM laptop I used had a PII: it blew out a lot of hot air through its vents, but still got hot. The Dell laptops at my office turn on their fans within minutes of booting up because they get hot. My PB 12" gets hot.
Every laptop I have ever used, except for my retired PB 160, gets hot.
But when I click on a button that is supposed to maximize the window to cover my whole screen
See, your premise is incorrect. The green button is not labeled "maximize" or "Full Screen". It is labeled "Zoom" (although Mac Help refers to it as the "Enlarge" button). It's not "supposed to maximize". Maybe it should, but it isn't mislabeled or misrepresented.
The green button works exactly the way its equivalent does in Mac OS Classic -
In the Finder, it toggles between the user setting and the setting that is necessary to show all of the window's contents.
In other apps, it toggles between the User Setting (the size you manually sized it to) and as large as will fit on the screen, leaving room for the Dock.
"Full Screen" is a completely different function, and some apps offer it and some don't. To me it's useless, because I want access to the Dock and the menu bar, which has to be somehow kludged in if an app takes over the entire screen. Then you are left wondering which arcane key combo makes the menu bar appear again so you can exit full-screen mode. The smarter apps just make the menu bar appear when you pass the cursor over the top edge, but I have seen others which require command-2 or some such nonsense.
I run a global automation team that deploys 1000's of pcs and macs each year. Honestly the percentage of PC's that come in bad or have issues are far greater than the macs. I would be supprized if we had two bad macs a year, that had critical flaws. If I look at percent per population between the PCs and Macs the PCs are pretty bad compared to the Macs. Point is all systems have defects, regardless of the manufactor.
There will always be issues, and there will always be people upset. Just a fact of life, if it wasn't the heat it would be something else. No such thing as a perfect product.
And I thought technology was supposed to increase our productivity and how close we can get to perfection. If the manufacturers actually bothered to test their products before shipping them, then we would be in a better situation. As it is, they ship asap and slowly the public has "learned" that computers have problems and that is life. Complete BS.
Visited the Apple Store today and saw 10 MacBooks that had been running an iTMS video for about an hour. Though warm, none of them was hot to the touch. My old G4 15" would have been blisteringly hot.
I don't need to be looking at 4 different movies at the same time. Nor do I need 4 different browser windows at the same time. I need 1 browser, 1 movie and 1 text editor. If I know that I'll be copy pasting between them, I will smarten up to the whole resize your window thing going on around the campus and resize my windows. But I usually watch 1 movie, browse with 1 window (blessed be thy tabs) and write a paper in 1 word processor window. Therefore, when I hit the green button, maximize the damn screen. will ya? [/B]
This issue is often brought forward by people switching from Windows or Linux to the Mac.
In the past, I was also used to have the apps I'm working on "fullscreened".
Using Windows you often have no choice, because of the stupid "Multi-Document-Windows" enclosing all documents and palettes of the app.
But OS X works different. Drag'n'Drop is used much more often than under Windows and where do you want to drop if your source app is at full screen?
You have to get used to that behaviour, but IMHO it is better.
Especially when it comes to large screens.
Fullscreen Browsing might be okay if you're in front of an 17 inch CRT, but do you really want Safari or Mail to cover 100% of your 30" Cinema Display? I doubt ...
Comments
Originally posted by Flounder
[B]But actual studies of these things (consumer reports I think comes to mind) consistently show apple's machines to have fewer issues.
Fewer than who? That adds to the context.
It's just that we're on an apple board, and we talk about them all the time.
The whining, the excessive heat, the thermal problems, screen flicker issues, the trackpad issues, the iBook logic boards, the iMac logic board problems, the iMac whine problems, the iMac G5 Rev. A charade, these are not things that are isolated to this board, or any other Apple board for that matter.
These are real issues, and they need to be acknowledged as such. Apple may very well have less issues than Dell or Gateway or whatever, but a Rev. B Apple notebook will not solve all problems. It will solve some, but introduce new ones. That's just the way it is.
Originally posted by Gene Clean
Fewer than who? That adds to the context.
The whining, the excessive heat, the thermal problems, screen flicker issues, the trackpad issues, the iBook logic boards, the iMac logic board problems, the iMac whine problems, the iMac G5 Rev. A charade, these are not things that are isolated to this board, or any other Apple board for that matter.
These are real issues, and they need to be acknowledged as such. Apple may very well have less issues than Dell or Gateway or whatever, but a Rev. B Apple notebook will not solve all problems. It will solve some, but introduce new ones. That's just the way it is.
Of course that's the way it is! Certainly apple should always be striving for better quality control, but it's hard to fault them too much when they in general lead the industry in that regard.
I am an electronics engineer, and I can tell you, it is a non-disputable fact that the amount of thermal paste illustrated in that photo is around two orders of magnitude too much.
Yes, overclockers too are laughing their asses off over this. Complete wrong way to apply thermal paste.
Originally posted by Mr. H
.....and possibly in the MacBook if that it how much they are using in production.....
In this MacBook dissection the thermal paste looks much thinner and properly applied:
http://www.kodawarisan.com/macbook/macbook003.html
Originally posted by blackbird_1.0
I'm kind of nervous. I ordered a black MacBook the day they came out, and it's already been shipped. I don't live near an Apple Store, so, if anything goes wrong I'd have to mail it back to them.
Nervous about what? People complaining on this board? Isn't that what everyone on this does?
I picked up a MB last night. It's my 6th Apple laptop. I've never had a problem with any of them.
Does the glossy screen suck outside? Yes. But so has every laptop I've ever used outside...as well as every computer screen and TV for that matter.
Does it get hot? Yes. But so did my 400 MHz Titanium G4. And my 1.33 GHz G4 PB 12". It's a computer. They get hot. The last laptop I do not remember getting hot was my PB 160. It ran at 16 MHz or so.
Please do not let the people posting here run your life.
Originally posted by k squared
It's a computer. They get hot. [/B]
Funny that. I used a ThinkPad T60 today at work, same processor, thin and black, edited images all day long in PS, and you know what? It didn't get hot. At all. It was always cool, and the temperature was around 45 C.
It's a computer though. They get hot.
Originally posted by lundy
He got a bad unit, but he just had to get the usual Windroid bullshit complaints in. He probably complains if his new car has the gas filler pipe on the opposite side of his old car.
- how do I "maximize" the window? OMG I want it MAXIMIZED!!!! Just like on WINDOWS!! OMG!!! (you mean "full screen", right? That's a useless function. If you mean "filling the whole viewable area", just resize the damn thing. What do you think that resize corner at the lower right is for? Sheesh.)
- OMG how do I take a screenshot OMG there is no PRINT SCREEN key OMG!!!!! (Try the "Help" menu. Were you waiting for the computer to put up a dialog saying "If you wish to take a screen shot, press command-shift-3" every time you open a new web page? How about a "Screenshot Wizard?")
I'm shocked that he didn't say "OMG why doesn't hitting Enter open a file OMG WTF?"
While OS X shouldn't act like Windows but be a prettier OS, I think it is almost a plain fact that Apple plays the "not invented here" game with a few things. They seem to have to be different just for the sake of being different.
The behavior of that green button isn't consistent across many apps, using the resize item in the corner is overly mousy especially if you want to move the upper or left edge rather than the lower and right edge of a window.
I think the two button printscreen operation makes more sense than some obtuse three or four letter key combination.
But when I click on a button that is supposed to maximize the window to cover my whole screen (such as a movie playing in QuickTime.app for example), I want it to cover the entire screen because I do not want to be distracted by my Thriller desktop picture. It's simple, really. When I want to focus on one thing, I don't want to have pics and folders and icons and stuff in the background to distract me. That's why I maximize my window, to cover the whole screen, so I can maximize my focus and thus maximize my productivity.
I don't need to be looking at 4 different movies at the same time. Nor do I need 4 different browser windows at the same time. I need 1 browser, 1 movie and 1 text editor. If I know that I'll be copy pasting between them, I will smarten up to the whole resize your window thing going on around the campus and resize my windows. But I usually watch 1 movie, browse with 1 window (blessed be thy tabs) and write a paper in 1 word processor window. Therefore, when I hit the green button, maximize the damn screen. will ya?
Originally posted by Gene Clean
But when I click on a button that is supposed to maximize the window to cover my whole screen
The zoom button isn't designed to maximize. Never was. I suppose you could add a separate maximize button.
That's why I maximize my window, to cover the whole screen, so I can maximize my focus and thus maximize my productivity.
I can understand that argument of distraction, but the thing is, a GUI was designed so you could interact between various windows of (in case of multitasking) various applications.
Mac OS X briefly had a single-window mode which is closer to what you want. Any non-focussed window gets minimized.
If I know that I'll be copy pasting between them, I will smarten up to the whole resize your window thing going on around the campus and resize my windows.
But you shouldn't have to. The green button resizes the windows to a size where you can comfortably interact between them (if it doesn't, your app wasn't done well).
A maximize button is a different thing altogether.
Originally posted by Gene Clean
Funny that. I used a ThinkPad T60 today at work, same processor, thin and black, edited images all day long in PS, and you know what? It didn't get hot. At all. It was always cool, and the temperature was around 45 C.
It's a computer though. They get hot.
And I'm calling your bluff. The last IBM laptop I used had a PII: it blew out a lot of hot air through its vents, but still got hot. The Dell laptops at my office turn on their fans within minutes of booting up because they get hot. My PB 12" gets hot.
Every laptop I have ever used, except for my retired PB 160, gets hot.
But when I click on a button that is supposed to maximize the window to cover my whole screen
See, your premise is incorrect. The green button is not labeled "maximize" or "Full Screen". It is labeled "Zoom" (although Mac Help refers to it as the "Enlarge" button). It's not "supposed to maximize". Maybe it should, but it isn't mislabeled or misrepresented.
The green button works exactly the way its equivalent does in Mac OS Classic -
In the Finder, it toggles between the user setting and the setting that is necessary to show all of the window's contents.
In other apps, it toggles between the User Setting (the size you manually sized it to) and as large as will fit on the screen, leaving room for the Dock.
"Full Screen" is a completely different function, and some apps offer it and some don't. To me it's useless, because I want access to the Dock and the menu bar, which has to be somehow kludged in if an app takes over the entire screen. Then you are left wondering which arcane key combo makes the menu bar appear again so you can exit full-screen mode. The smarter apps just make the menu bar appear when you pass the cursor over the top edge, but I have seen others which require command-2 or some such nonsense.
There will always be issues, and there will always be people upset. Just a fact of life, if it wasn't the heat it would be something else. No such thing as a perfect product.
Visited the Apple Store today and saw 10 MacBooks that had been running an iTMS video for about an hour. Though warm, none of them was hot to the touch. My old G4 15" would have been blisteringly hot.
Originally posted by k squared
And I'm calling your bluff.
Laptops that are significantly colder than the MacBook Pro do exist. They just tend to be A) thicker,
Originally posted by Chucker
Laptops that are significantly colder than the MacBook Pro do exist. They just tend to be A) thicker,
A) thicker,
Originally posted by Gene Clean
[...]
I don't need to be looking at 4 different movies at the same time. Nor do I need 4 different browser windows at the same time. I need 1 browser, 1 movie and 1 text editor. If I know that I'll be copy pasting between them, I will smarten up to the whole resize your window thing going on around the campus and resize my windows. But I usually watch 1 movie, browse with 1 window (blessed be thy tabs) and write a paper in 1 word processor window. Therefore, when I hit the green button, maximize the damn screen. will ya? [/B]
This issue is often brought forward by people switching from Windows or Linux to the Mac.
In the past, I was also used to have the apps I'm working on "fullscreened".
Using Windows you often have no choice, because of the stupid "Multi-Document-Windows" enclosing all documents and palettes of the app.
But OS X works different. Drag'n'Drop is used much more often than under Windows and where do you want to drop if your source app is at full screen?
You have to get used to that behaviour, but IMHO it is better.
Especially when it comes to large screens.
Fullscreen Browsing might be okay if you're in front of an 17 inch CRT, but do you really want Safari or Mail to cover 100% of your 30" Cinema Display? I doubt ...
klg