Apple seem to have repeated their mistake with applying way too much thermal paste in the MacBook.
I am astonished that this woefully amateurish mistake is still being made.
Here's a picture from the MacBook service manual:
There is a thread about it on Macnn's forums, here
There is no way that this picture is real. How could Apple, a well established computer maker, make such a stupid mistake? Everyone knows just a dab of paste, it just doesnt make any sense. That is a rediculous amount of paste he is putting on that chip in the picture. It would be all over the board after pressing that together with the heatsink.
There is no way that this picture is real. How could Apple, a well established computer maker, make such a stupid mistake? Everyone knows just a dab of paste, it just doesnt make any sense. That is a rediculous amount of paste he is putting on that chip in the picture. It would be all over the board after pressing that together with the heatsink.
Unfortunately, the likelihood of that picture being real is very high. It is almost exactly the same as the picture from Apple's MacBook Pro service manual, which was linked to in its entirety by something awful. Apple slapped them with a threat of legal action for linking the document, so it is gone now.
He discovered with the heat sensors disconnected the fans blew full on. He said this situation actually kept the MBP cool. He said extremely cool, but extremely loud.
From this he feels the thermal paste has less to do with the over heating than the fans blowing. And that Apple needs to find a balance between fan noise and keeping the MBP at good working temperatures.
It's all connected. The thermal paste, the heatpipe, the temperature sensors, and the fans reaction to temperatures of the heatpipe. Better thermal transfer between the CPU and GPU leads to heat being transferred better to the heatpipe. Which means higher temperatures at the heatpipe. Which means the fans which sense the temperatures at the heatpipe will come on to cool the heatpipe to thus remove the excess heat. But the fans may come on a little at a time* (see below *)
Let's read what the dude said again:
"Once I corrected the problem and carefully reassembled my MacBook Pro, the noise went away. And with it went the enjoyable coolness, which was replaced by a familiar warmth. It was this second reassembly that was used to take the temperature readings above."
The fans come on at full blast because he disconnected the temperature sensor at the heatpipe. When reconnected, I say the MacBook is in better shape overall than with tons of thermal paste. It is very possible that proper application of thermal paste will get the heat out from the CPU and GPU to the heatpipe properly, and from then on it's just a question of the "gating" of the fans* depending on the temperature of the heatpipe.
I'd venture that doing the mod itself will result in a good balance between heat of the MacBook and fan noise.
*In fact, it is possible that fans will only come on a little at a time, since with the heat properly transferred to the heatpipe, the heat is progressively and efficiently removed from the MacBook by the fans coming on every now and then. Rather than a huge build up of heat, then suddenly the heatpipe goes "OMG WTF" and then fans come on strongly to "emergency" cool down the whole shebang.
Apple should perhaps give us the choice of running the fans longer (more noise) for a cooler machine or run the fans less (less noise) with a warmer machine.
See my post above A cooler machine need not necessarily mean louder fans, if the fans come on a little at a time. It depends on the temperature sensors at the heatpipe.
Let's say the heatpipe is gated at 50degC. Given efficient transfer of heat from CPU and GPU to heatpipe, there'll be little peaks of temps over 50deg. So the fan could just come on a little at a time to bring things down under 50deg.
There is a possible balance between the thermal paste, heatpipe sensors, fan noise and temperature of the MacBook that would make everything work well and please most people. I think Apple hardware engineering is looking hard at this and thinking about the next revs and firmware updates.
Unfortunately, the likelihood of that picture being real is very high. It is almost exactly the same as the picture from Apple's MacBook Pro service manual, which was linked to in its entirety by something awful. Apple slapped them with a threat of legal action for linking the document, so it is gone now.
OK, so maybe apple fucked up. But ASUS manufactured these laptops did they not? They would not screw something up like this. I just dont get it. Myabe its the booze, but maybe im right. ASUS would not do something like that.
I see you did not try moving text between two documents using Exposé like I posted. Try this: open a TextEdit document, then reply to this post. Type in some text in your browser, highlight it, then click and hold till it is selected. Now using a stopwatch time how long it takes to drag the text into the TextEdit window and drop it. (I averaged .3 seconds). Then do the same thing, but use Exposé to get to the TextEdit document (I averaged 3.2 seconds).
Obviously... but you are forgetting to factor in the time it takes to position the windows side-by-side or staggered or whatever in the first test so that you'll actually be able to drag and drop-that's what expose is meant to eliminate and, in doing so, it is remarkably convenient and very fast. (especially if you're copying things from various location into a single document or something). Whoever it was that was talking about full screen in Windows with the taskbar and show desktop-Are you joking??? You get used to using Expose to copy text/images/files between documents/apps/windows/desktop/harddrives and then come back and tell me about your "show desktop." Believe me, that junk can't even compare.
Interesting note-in three years of using OS X, i've never used that little green button at all. When I read this thread, I decided to try it out and see what it does. Now I'm addicted to it-in Safari. I haven't tried it in other apps yet. It's really very convenient with webpages, resizes horizontally to just fit the page contents. That said, it is also buggy, like it sometimes repositions the window halfway down the screen or in the corner. WTF??
Regarding heat issues-as someone's already mentioned, the review that "started it all" got edited because Apple replaced the defective laptop. As such, given that all it takes for the few people affected by this kind of problem is a trip to an Apple store, this is IMHO really a non-issue...
OK, so maybe apple fucked up. But ASUS manufactured these laptops did they not? They would not screw something up like this. I just dont get it. Myabe its the booze, but maybe im right. ASUS would not do something like that.
ASUS is probably the contract manufacturer, if the specs call out for a certain amount of something, they might be in violation of their contract if they do anything else.
ASUS is probably the contract manufacturer, if the specs call out for a certain amount of something, they might be in violation of their contract if they do anything else.
Someone needs to rip open an Asus notebook to see how they do their own heatsinks and thermal pastidooos. Asus make some nice laptops.
I am a first time mac user (well, I started with mac back when I was a kid in '85 when it was green and black screen and the apple logo was multi-coloured; anyone care to tell me what OS that was cos I never found out *grin* windows 3.1 took over after that though) and I am DECIDEDLY NOT a techie so my comments below are purely on a layman fuzzy logic level.
I just got my Macbook 1.83GHz yesterday and been eagerly trying things out on Mac OS. I am very impressed thus far and I guess I'm lucky cos apparently, it doesn't "just work" for everyone here.
About the heat issue, I do notice that the laptop gets very hot, especially on the left bottom side (looking at your laptop when you use it) and I think it would be hot enough to be uncomfortable and if you say it will burn your lap, I can believe you (definitely singe a couple of leg hairs *grin*). However, I cannot say that this does not occur for other laptops as the IBM X21 that I use gets similarly hot and X21 follows a small form factor design as well (though of course not as elegant). The only reason why I think people raise this point about the Macbook is because, it seems to me, that the heat-generating area for Macbook occurs over a larger area. Conclusion: Its a laptop, but do yourself a favour, get a table and save some of your swimmers.
As for the "roaring" sound, nothing to complain about for me so far. Maybe I haven't really put my macbook through its paces yet. But you should hear the X21 I use at work; it is so abused and its hard disk so on the verge of crashing that it is making very angry roaring noises all the time. After that benchmark noise level, I ain't complaining about the noise that the macbook can make at times.
The white interior is great; its good that apple made it a bit greyish so dirt can't show that easily, but you can definitely notice when a strand of hair or an eyelash shows up, so be diligent and clear those and keep your mac pretty.
As for the keyboard, I heard the review and saw the pics on this website and thought that they were really integrated and flushed onto the board. However, now on close examination, it seems that they can still be popped and don't think that it will cost a lot to repair (like what this site said about replacing the entire base or something), or maybe I'm understanding this wrongly.
Lastly, do get that upgrade to 1 gig ram; pay if you have to or unless you can do it more cheaply. I didn't and am starting to regret it cos its not running as fast or as smoove as I feel it ought to. Already, Mail has crashed on me once and introduced me to the Force Quit command... hahaha
Oh well, all in all, no regrets for me. Its a pretty bundle you're getting for this price point. Just go get the damn thing though I'd say forget the black cos the premium is just outrageous. Sorry for the long post, meant to comment on the heat issue only, but ended up gushing about this awesome looking piece of gear
It's readjusting to the size you need. I'm not sure where "zoom" implies "enlarge" in your book, either.
I know I'm late on this whole green button debate, but my problem with this whole discussion is the implication that the green button actually zooms anything.
When I think of zoom, I think of the actual scale of all the items in the window (ie. zoom like a camera). So if the green button actually zoomed, then everything inside the window should get larger (or smaller, depending on the zoom factor). All the green button does is resize the window.
And yes, I find it useless as well. Been using Mac OS X since it was first released (6 years now) and haven't used the green button since I first tried it out and found it's behavior confusing. I just use the resize handle in the bottom-right corner. Most Mac users I've seen do the same.
I am a first time mac user (well, I started with mac back when I was a kid in '85 when it was green and black screen and the apple logo was multi-coloured; anyone care to tell me what OS that was cos I never found out *grin* windows 3.1 took over after that though) and I am DECIDEDLY NOT a techie so my comments below are purely on a layman fuzzy logic level.
I just got my Macbook 1.83GHz yesterday and been eagerly trying things out on Mac OS. I am very impressed thus far and I guess I'm lucky cos apparently, it doesn't "just work" for everyone here.
About the heat issue, I do notice that the laptop gets very hot, especially on the left bottom side (looking at your laptop when you use it) and I think it would be hot enough to be uncomfortable and if you say it will burn your lap, I can believe you (definitely singe a couple of leg hairs *grin*). However, I cannot say that this does not occur for other laptops as the IBM X21 that I use gets similarly hot and X21 follows a small form factor design as well (though of course not as elegant). The only reason why I think people raise this point about the Macbook is because, it seems to me, that the heat-generating area for Macbook occurs over a larger area. Conclusion: Its a laptop, but do yourself a favour, get a table and save some of your swimmers.
As for the "roaring" sound, nothing to complain about for me so far. Maybe I haven't really put my macbook through its paces yet. But you should hear the X21 I use at work; it is so abused and its hard disk so on the verge of crashing that it is making very angry roaring noises all the time. After that benchmark noise level, I ain't complaining about the noise that the macbook can make at times.
The white interior is great; its good that apple made it a bit greyish so dirt can't show that easily, but you can definitely notice when a strand of hair or an eyelash shows up, so be diligent and clear those and keep your mac pretty.
As for the keyboard, I heard the review and saw the pics on this website and thought that they were really integrated and flushed onto the board. However, now on close examination, it seems that they can still be popped and don't think that it will cost a lot to repair (like what this site said about replacing the entire base or something), or maybe I'm understanding this wrongly.
Lastly, do get that upgrade to 1 gig ram; pay if you have to or unless you can do it more cheaply. I didn't and am starting to regret it cos its not running as fast or as smoove as I feel it ought to. Already, Mail has crashed on me once and introduced me to the Force Quit command... hahaha
Oh well, all in all, no regrets for me. Its a pretty bundle you're getting for this price point. Just go get the damn thing though I'd say forget the black cos the premium is just outrageous. Sorry for the long post, meant to comment on the heat issue only, but ended up gushing about this awesome looking piece of gear
I got my Macbook 1.83 yesterday as well. I LOVE IT. Yes, the left side gets a bit warm, it's NOT a problem. They tell you in the manual it gets warm and to sit the machine on a flat surface because it helps to dissipate the heat. Every laptop gets a bit warm or hot. This is one GREAT laptop IMHO. The battery life is better than my G3 ibook 500, the screen is clear and bright and sharp as a tack. The glossy screen is NOT a problem for me. The slightly heavier weight is NOT a problem for me. I LOVE this Macbook! Apple really did a great job with this. Seriously.
I'd be taking that baby back for a checkup. I don't care how long the lines are..
On topic: Yesterday I was at the local Apple store and I noticed that the white Macbooks were much warmer to the touch than the Black models.
I'd go back again and check more closely as to the processor speed. That was my first instinct too, but on closer inspection it turned out the problem was the 1.83GHz models. I think Intel is shoving the reject chips out as "slower".
I'd go back again and check more closely as to the processor speed. That was my first instinct too, but on closer inspection it turned out the problem was the 1.83GHz models. I think Intel is shoving the reject chips out as "slower".
Comments
Originally posted by Mr. H
Apple seem to have repeated their mistake with applying way too much thermal paste in the MacBook.
I am astonished that this woefully amateurish mistake is still being made.
Here's a picture from the MacBook service manual:
There is a thread about it on Macnn's forums, here
There is no way that this picture is real. How could Apple, a well established computer maker, make such a stupid mistake? Everyone knows just a dab of paste, it just doesnt make any sense. That is a rediculous amount of paste he is putting on that chip in the picture. It would be all over the board after pressing that together with the heatsink.
Originally posted by Red Delicious
There is no way that this picture is real. How could Apple, a well established computer maker, make such a stupid mistake? Everyone knows just a dab of paste, it just doesnt make any sense. That is a rediculous amount of paste he is putting on that chip in the picture. It would be all over the board after pressing that together with the heatsink.
Unfortunately, the likelihood of that picture being real is very high. It is almost exactly the same as the picture from Apple's MacBook Pro service manual, which was linked to in its entirety by something awful. Apple slapped them with a threat of legal action for linking the document, so it is gone now.
Macs make pussy warm.
He discovered with the heat sensors disconnected the fans blew full on. He said this situation actually kept the MBP cool. He said extremely cool, but extremely loud.
http://www.macdevcenter.com/lpt/a/6605
From this he feels the thermal paste has less to do with the over heating than the fans blowing. And that Apple needs to find a balance between fan noise and keeping the MBP at good working temperatures.
It's all connected. The thermal paste, the heatpipe, the temperature sensors, and the fans reaction to temperatures of the heatpipe. Better thermal transfer between the CPU and GPU leads to heat being transferred better to the heatpipe. Which means higher temperatures at the heatpipe. Which means the fans which sense the temperatures at the heatpipe will come on to cool the heatpipe to thus remove the excess heat. But the fans may come on a little at a time* (see below *)
Let's read what the dude said again:
"Once I corrected the problem and carefully reassembled my MacBook Pro, the noise went away. And with it went the enjoyable coolness, which was replaced by a familiar warmth. It was this second reassembly that was used to take the temperature readings above."
The fans come on at full blast because he disconnected the temperature sensor at the heatpipe. When reconnected, I say the MacBook is in better shape overall than with tons of thermal paste. It is very possible that proper application of thermal paste will get the heat out from the CPU and GPU to the heatpipe properly, and from then on it's just a question of the "gating" of the fans* depending on the temperature of the heatpipe.
I'd venture that doing the mod itself will result in a good balance between heat of the MacBook and fan noise.
*In fact, it is possible that fans will only come on a little at a time, since with the heat properly transferred to the heatpipe, the heat is progressively and efficiently removed from the MacBook by the fans coming on every now and then. Rather than a huge build up of heat, then suddenly the heatpipe goes "OMG WTF" and then fans come on strongly to "emergency" cool down the whole shebang.
Apple should perhaps give us the choice of running the fans longer (more noise) for a cooler machine or run the fans less (less noise) with a warmer machine.
See my post above
Let's say the heatpipe is gated at 50degC. Given efficient transfer of heat from CPU and GPU to heatpipe, there'll be little peaks of temps over 50deg. So the fan could just come on a little at a time to bring things down under 50deg.
There is a possible balance between the thermal paste, heatpipe sensors, fan noise and temperature of the MacBook that would make everything work well and please most people. I think Apple hardware engineering is looking hard at this and thinking about the next revs and firmware updates.
Originally posted by Mr. H
Unfortunately, the likelihood of that picture being real is very high. It is almost exactly the same as the picture from Apple's MacBook Pro service manual, which was linked to in its entirety by something awful. Apple slapped them with a threat of legal action for linking the document, so it is gone now.
OK, so maybe apple fucked up. But ASUS manufactured these laptops did they not? They would not screw something up like this. I just dont get it. Myabe its the booze, but maybe im right. ASUS would not do something like that.
Originally posted by sunilraman
Originally posted by sandau
Macs make pussy warm.
It does, everytime a woman puts one on her lap since macbooks supposedly get so hot.
Originally posted by Res
I see you did not try moving text between two documents using Exposé like I posted. Try this: open a TextEdit document, then reply to this post. Type in some text in your browser, highlight it, then click and hold till it is selected. Now using a stopwatch time how long it takes to drag the text into the TextEdit window and drop it. (I averaged .3 seconds). Then do the same thing, but use Exposé to get to the TextEdit document (I averaged 3.2 seconds).
Obviously... but you are forgetting to factor in the time it takes to position the windows side-by-side or staggered or whatever in the first test so that you'll actually be able to drag and drop-that's what expose is meant to eliminate and, in doing so, it is remarkably convenient and very fast. (especially if you're copying things from various location into a single document or something). Whoever it was that was talking about full screen in Windows with the taskbar and show desktop-Are you joking???
Interesting note-in three years of using OS X, i've never used that little green button at all. When I read this thread, I decided to try it out and see what it does. Now I'm addicted to it-in Safari. I haven't tried it in other apps yet. It's really very convenient with webpages, resizes horizontally to just fit the page contents. That said, it is also buggy, like it sometimes repositions the window halfway down the screen or in the corner. WTF??
Regarding heat issues-as someone's already mentioned, the review that "started it all" got edited because Apple replaced the defective laptop. As such, given that all it takes for the few people affected by this kind of problem is a trip to an Apple store, this is IMHO really a non-issue...
Originally posted by sunilraman
Originally posted by Bergermeister
Heat?
Now we know who the MacBooks were really designed for:
awwww..... 8) 8)
Originally posted by Red Delicious
OK, so maybe apple fucked up. But ASUS manufactured these laptops did they not? They would not screw something up like this. I just dont get it. Myabe its the booze, but maybe im right. ASUS would not do something like that.
ASUS is probably the contract manufacturer, if the specs call out for a certain amount of something, they might be in violation of their contract if they do anything else.
ASUS is probably the contract manufacturer, if the specs call out for a certain amount of something, they might be in violation of their contract if they do anything else.
Someone needs to rip open an Asus notebook to see how they do their own heatsinks and thermal pastidooos.
I am a first time mac user (well, I started with mac back when I was a kid in '85 when it was green and black screen and the apple logo was multi-coloured; anyone care to tell me what OS that was cos I never found out *grin* windows 3.1 took over after that though) and I am DECIDEDLY NOT a techie so my comments below are purely on a layman fuzzy logic level.
I just got my Macbook 1.83GHz yesterday and been eagerly trying things out on Mac OS. I am very impressed thus far and I guess I'm lucky cos apparently, it doesn't "just work" for everyone here.
About the heat issue, I do notice that the laptop gets very hot, especially on the left bottom side (looking at your laptop when you use it) and I think it would be hot enough to be uncomfortable and if you say it will burn your lap, I can believe you (definitely singe a couple of leg hairs *grin*). However, I cannot say that this does not occur for other laptops as the IBM X21 that I use gets similarly hot and X21 follows a small form factor design as well (though of course not as elegant). The only reason why I think people raise this point about the Macbook is because, it seems to me, that the heat-generating area for Macbook occurs over a larger area. Conclusion: Its a laptop, but do yourself a favour, get a table and save some of your swimmers.
As for the "roaring" sound, nothing to complain about for me so far. Maybe I haven't really put my macbook through its paces yet. But you should hear the X21 I use at work; it is so abused and its hard disk so on the verge of crashing that it is making very angry roaring noises all the time. After that benchmark noise level, I ain't complaining about the noise that the macbook can make at times.
The white interior is great; its good that apple made it a bit greyish so dirt can't show that easily, but you can definitely notice when a strand of hair or an eyelash shows up, so be diligent and clear those and keep your mac pretty.
As for the keyboard, I heard the review and saw the pics on this website and thought that they were really integrated and flushed onto the board. However, now on close examination, it seems that they can still be popped and don't think that it will cost a lot to repair (like what this site said about replacing the entire base or something), or maybe I'm understanding this wrongly.
Lastly, do get that upgrade to 1 gig ram; pay if you have to or unless you can do it more cheaply. I didn't and am starting to regret it cos its not running as fast or as smoove as I feel it ought to. Already, Mail has crashed on me once and introduced me to the Force Quit command... hahaha
Oh well, all in all, no regrets for me. Its a pretty bundle you're getting for this price point. Just go get the damn thing
Originally posted by Chucker
It's readjusting to the size you need. I'm not sure where "zoom" implies "enlarge" in your book, either.
I know I'm late on this whole green button debate, but my problem with this whole discussion is the implication that the green button actually zooms anything.
When I think of zoom, I think of the actual scale of all the items in the window (ie. zoom like a camera). So if the green button actually zoomed, then everything inside the window should get larger (or smaller, depending on the zoom factor). All the green button does is resize the window.
And yes, I find it useless as well. Been using Mac OS X since it was first released (6 years now) and haven't used the green button since I first tried it out and found it's behavior confusing. I just use the resize handle in the bottom-right corner. Most Mac users I've seen do the same.
Originally posted by sunilraman
Originally posted by Bergermeister
Heat?
Now we know who the MacBooks were really designed for:
That's a GREAT photo!!!
Originally posted by lychee
Hi folks
I am a first time mac user (well, I started with mac back when I was a kid in '85 when it was green and black screen and the apple logo was multi-coloured; anyone care to tell me what OS that was cos I never found out *grin* windows 3.1 took over after that though) and I am DECIDEDLY NOT a techie so my comments below are purely on a layman fuzzy logic level.
I just got my Macbook 1.83GHz yesterday and been eagerly trying things out on Mac OS. I am very impressed thus far and I guess I'm lucky cos apparently, it doesn't "just work" for everyone here.
About the heat issue, I do notice that the laptop gets very hot, especially on the left bottom side (looking at your laptop when you use it) and I think it would be hot enough to be uncomfortable and if you say it will burn your lap, I can believe you (definitely singe a couple of leg hairs *grin*). However, I cannot say that this does not occur for other laptops as the IBM X21 that I use gets similarly hot and X21 follows a small form factor design as well (though of course not as elegant). The only reason why I think people raise this point about the Macbook is because, it seems to me, that the heat-generating area for Macbook occurs over a larger area. Conclusion: Its a laptop, but do yourself a favour, get a table and save some of your swimmers.
As for the "roaring" sound, nothing to complain about for me so far. Maybe I haven't really put my macbook through its paces yet. But you should hear the X21 I use at work; it is so abused and its hard disk so on the verge of crashing that it is making very angry roaring noises all the time. After that benchmark noise level, I ain't complaining about the noise that the macbook can make at times.
The white interior is great; its good that apple made it a bit greyish so dirt can't show that easily, but you can definitely notice when a strand of hair or an eyelash shows up, so be diligent and clear those and keep your mac pretty.
As for the keyboard, I heard the review and saw the pics on this website and thought that they were really integrated and flushed onto the board. However, now on close examination, it seems that they can still be popped and don't think that it will cost a lot to repair (like what this site said about replacing the entire base or something), or maybe I'm understanding this wrongly.
Lastly, do get that upgrade to 1 gig ram; pay if you have to or unless you can do it more cheaply. I didn't and am starting to regret it cos its not running as fast or as smoove as I feel it ought to. Already, Mail has crashed on me once and introduced me to the Force Quit command... hahaha
Oh well, all in all, no regrets for me. Its a pretty bundle you're getting for this price point. Just go get the damn thing
I got my Macbook 1.83 yesterday as well. I LOVE IT. Yes, the left side gets a bit warm, it's NOT a problem. They tell you in the manual it gets warm and to sit the machine on a flat surface because it helps to dissipate the heat. Every laptop gets a bit warm or hot. This is one GREAT laptop IMHO. The battery life is better than my G3 ibook 500, the screen is clear and bright and sharp as a tack. The glossy screen is NOT a problem for me. The slightly heavier weight is NOT a problem for me. I LOVE this Macbook! Apple really did a great job with this. Seriously.
I am one happy camper so far!
Tom
http://gertstahl.blogspot.com/2006/0...t-blocked.html
Originally posted by John Clay
This made the cover of Digg.com earlier today, and it seems on topic. I cannot vouch for its validity, however.
http://gertstahl.blogspot.com/2006/0...t-blocked.html
And the cover of this very forum
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...threadid=63745
Originally posted by ThinkingDifferent
I'd be taking that baby back for a checkup. I don't care how long the lines are..
On topic: Yesterday I was at the local Apple store and I noticed that the white Macbooks were much warmer to the touch than the Black models.
I'd go back again and check more closely as to the processor speed. That was my first instinct too, but on closer inspection it turned out the problem was the 1.83GHz models. I think Intel is shoving the reject chips out as "slower".
I love the machine and it has no heat issues. It runs cooler than my previous Intel laptop from Gateway.
Originally posted by photoeditor
I'd go back again and check more closely as to the processor speed. That was my first instinct too, but on closer inspection it turned out the problem was the 1.83GHz models. I think Intel is shoving the reject chips out as "slower".
That is standard industry practice...