30" is an anomaly (albeit a good one) in the current market, rather than something more and more people are catching up with. It's much too expensive at this point to be normal.
Yes, that's right. The 30" was meant as an extreme example.
But keep in mind that the smallest Display Apple sells at the moment is 20" Widescreen. All the books have widescreen displays with high resolution.
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Nevermind the gigantic size that most people don't even need.
Hmm, a few years ago a friend of mine mentioned that "no one" needs displays larger that 15 inch (CRT) ...
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Noone said anything about a 14" screen.
No. But that was the normal display size a few years ago. Today it's 17 inch and in a few years IMHO it will be > 20".
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But the majority of the market either uses some 17" they got for $199 at CompUSA or some other low-resolution screen that came bundled with one of their computer purchases (somewhere in the range of 15 - 17").
Yes, that may be.
As I said, I think many aspects of OS X are designed with (near-) future hardware in mind.
I also think that it would be a good thing to implement a function to fullscreen a window using a modifier key. Perhaps with some preferences to swap the behaviour (modifier = fullscreen / modifier = default).
Perhaps something like that will be done, if more and more people are switching from Win to Mac ... ;-)
I don't really like the idea of maximising windows, but if other people want to do it, why not let them? There could just be a modifier key (e.g. option), so if you hold it down whilst clicking the button, maximises the window. I don't see how that would hurt anyone.
Or Apple could make it easy and crate an option in "System Preferences > Expose > Toggle between Fullscreen and Zoom" so I wouldn't have to click Option everytime I wanted to do it
Or Apple could make it easy and crate an option in "System Preferences > Expose > Toggle between Fullscreen and Zoom" so I wouldn't have to click Option everytime I wanted to do it
It seems especially usless to have the current "Green Plus" action (the so called "big enough" action) given the F11 action of moving everthing out of the way.
It seems especially usless to have the current "Green Plus" action (the so called "big enough" action) given the F11 action of moving everthing out of the way.
Wow, this thread has gone soooooo off topic. Weren't we supposed to be discussing MacBook overheat problems that may or may not exist? WTF with the green button and fullscreen-this and windows-that? Interesting reading nontheless, I have to say (I'm using XP most of the day, the iBook is used mostly by my parents. No more Windows for them after 10 years of a rubbish experience for them.)
iPhoto fullscreen experience is interesting, it breaks a bit of the apple UI rules.
It seems especially usless to have the current "Green Plus" action (the so called "big enough" action) given the F11 action of moving everthing out of the way.
...The only time I find myself using fullscreen mode on the PC is when I am playing a game: fullscreen mode is way too limiting and hinders my productivity (and I don't see why some people like fullscreen mode -- I guess they are just used to it)....
On Windows it is usable if you have the taskbar at the bottom shown at all times. So toggling between fullscreen* windows is quite easy. Then there's the "Show Desktop" button. Collectively, these features make IMO fullscreen windows in WinXP usable enough.
*Fullscreen here is obviously not like fullscreen for games where there is no UI displayed at all. Actually, maybe this is what you are talking about, using apps "completely fullscreen like games". That is crazy because there is only Alt-Tab to switch between apps and you can't see which apps you have open
You can turn on zoom in preferences under universal access \\. It allows you to command-option-+/- to size the window and zoom the display to whatever your little heart desires. It is quite handy really. Those apple devs are sooo tricksy.
And if you set a QuicKey macro to toggle the zoom (magnify) function in Universal Access, and then map that macro to some bizarre keystroke, and then assign that keystroke to the fourth mouse button with USB Overdrive, you can have a click-to-zoom-in, click-again-to-zoom-out mouse button!! I couldn't do without it.
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Originally posted by ibuzz
You can turn on zoom in preferences under universal access \\. It allows you to command-option-+/- to size the window and zoom the display to whatever your little heart desires. It is quite handy really. Those apple devs are sooo tricksy.
It seems especially usless to have the current "Green Plus" action (the so called "big enough" action) given the F11 action of moving everthing out of the way.
This comment makes absolutely no sense.
Um, yeah it does, but I'll explain a little more...
"klg" had made the comment at the top of page 2 that the green-plus makes thing the size it does because Mac OS makes such heavy use of drag+drop, and that if the app was "full screeen" there would be no place to drop. I'm saying that's BS, given that F11 moves all windows out of the way, (not to mention the other expose features, in case you're looking to drop into an application window.
Um, yeah it does, but I'll explain a little more...
"klg" had made the comment at the top of page 2 that the green-plus makes thing the size it does because Mac OS makes such heavy use of drag+drop, and that if the app was "full screeen" there would be no place to drop. I'm saying that's BS, given that F11 moves all windows out of the way, (not to mention the other expose features, in case you're looking to drop into an application window.
It not BS at all, which you would know if you used drag and drop often. Having to use expose every time you wanted to drag and drop something would be a real pain (try using drag and drop to move some text between documents using expose, you will see it increases the time it takes to drop the text by at least a factor of 10).
Full screen mode for programs is a matter of personal preference. I don't like it, and I know it really reduces my productivity. As for the three buttons, truthfully, the only one I use with any frequency is the red one.
It not BS at all, which you would know if you used drag and drop often. Having to use expose every time you wanted to drag and drop something would be a real pain (try using drag and drop to move some text between documents using expose, you will see it increases the time it takes to drop the text by at least a factor of 10).
Full screen mode for programs is a matter of personal preference. I don't like it, and I know it really reduces my productivity. As for the three buttons, truthfully, the only one I use with any frequency is the red one.
For the record, I don't need full screen mode, I am personally asking for the function to be more predictable. Several times, I have seen it such that if I use the green button and I don't get the desired result, I move the window a tiny bit, hit the green button again and I get the result I should have gotten in the first place. With Finder, sometimes it makes the window larger, sometimes it makes it smaller in successive steps down to displaying just a single icon in icon view, even though the number of items in the finder window is often much larger than the actual displayed area.
I doubt using Exposé increases drag and drop times by a factor of ten, that's an absurd claim. It might double or triple the time though.
I see you did not try moving text between two documents using Exposé like I posted. Try this: open a TextEdit document, then reply to this post. Type in some text in your browser, highlight it, then click and hold till it is selected. Now using a stopwatch time how long it takes to drag the text into the TextEdit window and drop it. (I averaged .3 seconds). Then do the same thing, but use Exposé to get to the TextEdit document (I averaged 3.2 seconds). This shows that my estimation was not "an absurd claim" as you posted. Unfortunately, it also shows that I don't have much of a real life...
Comments
Originally posted by Gene Clean
30" is an anomaly (albeit a good one) in the current market, rather than something more and more people are catching up with. It's much too expensive at this point to be normal.
Yes, that's right. The 30" was meant as an extreme example.
But keep in mind that the smallest Display Apple sells at the moment is 20" Widescreen. All the books have widescreen displays with high resolution.
Nevermind the gigantic size that most people don't even need.
Hmm, a few years ago a friend of mine mentioned that "no one" needs displays larger that 15 inch (CRT) ...
Noone said anything about a 14" screen.
No. But that was the normal display size a few years ago. Today it's 17 inch and in a few years IMHO it will be > 20".
But the majority of the market either uses some 17" they got for $199 at CompUSA or some other low-resolution screen that came bundled with one of their computer purchases (somewhere in the range of 15 - 17").
Yes, that may be.
As I said, I think many aspects of OS X are designed with (near-) future hardware in mind.
I also think that it would be a good thing to implement a function to fullscreen a window using a modifier key. Perhaps with some preferences to swap the behaviour (modifier = fullscreen / modifier = default).
Perhaps something like that will be done, if more and more people are switching from Win to Mac ... ;-)
klg
Originally posted by Mr. H
I don't really like the idea of maximising windows, but if other people want to do it, why not let them? There could just be a modifier key (e.g. option), so if you hold it down whilst clicking the button, maximises the window. I don't see how that would hurt anyone.
Or Apple could make it easy and crate an option in "System Preferences > Expose > Toggle between Fullscreen and Zoom" so I wouldn't have to click Option everytime I wanted to do it
Originally posted by Gene Clean
Or Apple could make it easy and crate an option in "System Preferences > Expose > Toggle between Fullscreen and Zoom" so I wouldn't have to click Option everytime I wanted to do it
It seems especially usless to have the current "Green Plus" action (the so called "big enough" action) given the F11 action of moving everthing out of the way.
Originally posted by concentricity
It seems especially usless to have the current "Green Plus" action (the so called "big enough" action) given the F11 action of moving everthing out of the way.
What are you talking about?
Which is not the same as cycling between various different sizes (which implies more than two sizes).
Recycle could mean two sizes, it simple means a return to a previous state.
Originally posted by TenoBell
Recycle could mean two sizes, it simple means a return to a previous state.
But he didn't say recycle did he? He suggested "cycling through various sizes", which clearly implies more than two.
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Gene Clean, how long have you been using Macs?
Since at least Oct 2004!!
iPhoto fullscreen experience is interesting, it breaks a bit of the apple UI rules.
It seems especially usless to have the current "Green Plus" action (the so called "big enough" action) given the F11 action of moving everthing out of the way.
This comment makes absolutely no sense.
...The only time I find myself using fullscreen mode on the PC is when I am playing a game: fullscreen mode is way too limiting and hinders my productivity (and I don't see why some people like fullscreen mode -- I guess they are just used to it)....
On Windows it is usable if you have the taskbar at the bottom shown at all times. So toggling between fullscreen* windows is quite easy. Then there's the "Show Desktop" button. Collectively, these features make IMO fullscreen windows in WinXP usable enough.
*Fullscreen here is obviously not like fullscreen for games where there is no UI displayed at all. Actually, maybe this is what you are talking about, using apps "completely fullscreen like games". That is crazy because there is only Alt-Tab to switch between apps and you can't see which apps you have open
Since at least Oct 2004!!
Uh, I don't know, maybe Gene Clean signed on using a PC.
You've made some interesting points here.
Originally posted by ibuzz
You can turn on zoom in preferences under universal access \\. It allows you to command-option-+/- to size the window and zoom the display to whatever your little heart desires. It is quite handy really. Those apple devs are sooo tricksy.
Originally posted by sunilraman
Originally posted by concentricity
It seems especially usless to have the current "Green Plus" action (the so called "big enough" action) given the F11 action of moving everthing out of the way.
This comment makes absolutely no sense.
Um, yeah it does, but I'll explain a little more...
"klg" had made the comment at the top of page 2 that the green-plus makes thing the size it does because Mac OS makes such heavy use of drag+drop, and that if the app was "full screeen" there would be no place to drop. I'm saying that's BS, given that F11 moves all windows out of the way, (not to mention the other expose features, in case you're looking to drop into an application window.
Originally posted by concentricity
Um, yeah it does, but I'll explain a little more...
"klg" had made the comment at the top of page 2 that the green-plus makes thing the size it does because Mac OS makes such heavy use of drag+drop, and that if the app was "full screeen" there would be no place to drop. I'm saying that's BS, given that F11 moves all windows out of the way, (not to mention the other expose features, in case you're looking to drop into an application window.
It not BS at all, which you would know if you used drag and drop often. Having to use expose every time you wanted to drag and drop something would be a real pain (try using drag and drop to move some text between documents using expose, you will see it increases the time it takes to drop the text by at least a factor of 10).
Full screen mode for programs is a matter of personal preference. I don't like it, and I know it really reduces my productivity. As for the three buttons, truthfully, the only one I use with any frequency is the red one.
Originally posted by Res
It not BS at all, which you would know if you used drag and drop often. Having to use expose every time you wanted to drag and drop something would be a real pain (try using drag and drop to move some text between documents using expose, you will see it increases the time it takes to drop the text by at least a factor of 10).
Full screen mode for programs is a matter of personal preference. I don't like it, and I know it really reduces my productivity. As for the three buttons, truthfully, the only one I use with any frequency is the red one.
For the record, I don't need full screen mode, I am personally asking for the function to be more predictable. Several times, I have seen it such that if I use the green button and I don't get the desired result, I move the window a tiny bit, hit the green button again and I get the result I should have gotten in the first place. With Finder, sometimes it makes the window larger, sometimes it makes it smaller in successive steps down to displaying just a single icon in icon view, even though the number of items in the finder window is often much larger than the actual displayed area.
I doubt using Exposé increases drag and drop times by a factor of ten, that's an absurd claim. It might double or triple the time though.
Originally posted by JeffDM
I doubt using Exposé increases drag and drop times by a factor of ten, that's an absurd claim. It might double or triple the time though.
I see you did not try moving text between two documents using Exposé like I posted. Try this: open a TextEdit document, then reply to this post. Type in some text in your browser, highlight it, then click and hold till it is selected. Now using a stopwatch time how long it takes to drag the text into the TextEdit window and drop it. (I averaged .3 seconds). Then do the same thing, but use Exposé to get to the TextEdit document (I averaged 3.2 seconds). This shows that my estimation was not "an absurd claim" as you posted. Unfortunately, it also shows that I don't have much of a real life...
Originally posted by Res
Unfortunately, it also shows that I don't have much of a real life...