Official World Cup Thread

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  • Reply 401 of 528
    splinemodelsplinemodel Posts: 7,311member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Frank777

    Just to be clear, I'm not calling for a replay of the France-Portugal game.



    I want the whole darn event restaged.




    On one hand, it's obvious that the entire FIFA officiating rubrick needs to be overhauled, but on the other hand, it might not have become so painfully obvious had not the World Cup been such a disaster.



    Anyway, I can't disagree with you too much, but there have been a hundful of solid matches, and that's about as much as I expected.
  • Reply 402 of 528
    gilschgilsch Posts: 1,995member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by iMac David

    I thought we were having a fairly sensible discussion on tiredness/exhaustion and yet you seem to be deliberately misrepresenting what I wrote, or worse, reading what you want to read.



    I thought about not replying to your other post because it was simply full of silly arguments, but I didn't want some of your "innacuracies" to go without a reply. This last reply, I won't let go because you're using the "victim" recourse after you got called on your innacuracies.
    Quote:

    I didn't "use" the lower figure of 44 - I merely referred to it as an introduction to the question of tiredness. Further, of course a cup final is emotionally intensive, as is ANY premiership match. Where and when did I say it wasn't? What isn't emotionally intensive is training, it is just tiring.



    Lovely. I usually quote people so that they see exactly what I'm addressing . You used the 44 figure again after I had corrected you. I even broke it down into matches played in all the different competitions. Now after claiming training wasn't tiring (you called it having time off and said this about your decathlon champion: " daily training didn?t make him tired, only competitions") you have done a complete reversal and admitted that it is. Nice.
    Quote:

    According to me, because he limited his competitions, the training meant he was at peak physical and mental condition to win, which he did. Back to Gerrard - you say 53 matches in a season with a 3 week gap is too many. I don't agree.



    You're all over the place now. I'm not surprised. Gerrard didn't have the advantage of "limiting" his competitions. Furthermore, that 53 does not take into account tune-up games for England like against Uruguay and argentina. I think you're alone on this one. Managers complain of too many games aswell as players. That's why there is this thing called "player rotation" that most top managers use so as not to burn out their top players. Of course, you know more than them.
    Quote:

    Again, you're being obtuse if you can't follow my golf analogy. You tell me, then, why, in your opinion, should a golfer be knackered after say 8 weeks of competitions. My opinion is that he is mentally exhausted, not physically. And that is the crux of the matter.



    Who cares about golf. For you to compare a golf player to a world class football player on any level is laughable at best. Again, you initially questioned whether training counted towards a player being tired ("whether training ?counts? in terms of a player?s level of tiredness. My view has long been that physical activity of itself is not the defining factor, it?s the emotional intensity of the activity".) Now it is. This is "fun".
    Quote:

    Livrpool and Japan - jeez, nowhere did I refer to that. My comment re Dubai was a reference to the friendlies teams play when they have a gap in the fixture list. I even made it easy for you by using the word 'friendly'.



    You didn't refer to Japan especifically. When I mentioned the long trip to Japan your silly comeback analogy was about teams playing friendlies in Dubai and how the trips aren't tiring because "victory or defeat is not important". So why bring it up related to the Japan trip? You tried to make an analogy but what it ultimately proved was your ignorance on the matter.



    By the way, please enlighten me about the trips any Premiership side made to Dubai this calendar year between "gaps in the fixture list"? Wait. I already know the answer. ZERO.
    Quote:

    IMO, Gerrard had enough time between the end of the season and the start of the WC to be both physically and mentally rested.



    Since Gerrard had basically no time off before joining the English squad's pre WC training after the gruelling penalty kick win in the FA cup final on May 13th, you're back to saying training is not physically tiring. Got it. You're starting to remind me of that Adam Sandler movie where he's dating a chick that forgets everything that happened the day before. If you do have some sort of problem and take medication for it I sincerely apologize for the inference.
  • Reply 403 of 528
    bergermeisterbergermeister Posts: 6,784member
    Wow. That was nice.





    ---



    So what does everyone think: who will win the two matches?



    Germany or Portugal?



    Italy or France?
  • Reply 404 of 528
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 10,060member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Bergermeister

    Wow. That was nice.





    ---



    So what does everyone think: who will win the two matches?



    Germany or Portugal?



    Italy or France?




    Depends who flops around on the ground more.
  • Reply 405 of 528
    gilschgilsch Posts: 1,995member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by midwinter

    Depends who flops around on the ground more.



    I think it's up to which crowd boos the most.
  • Reply 406 of 528
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 10,060member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Gilsch

    I think it's up to which crowd boos the most.



    Well, since people are suggesting pre-game penalty shots and halftime penalty shots and rolling substitutions and no offsides, why not just have the people vote.



    I mean, hell, more people voted on American Idol than voted for Bush.



    What can go wrong?!
  • Reply 407 of 528
    gilschgilsch Posts: 1,995member
    Hey don't forget the no goalies in extra time. BOOOOOOOOO
  • Reply 408 of 528
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 10,060member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Gilsch

    Hey don't forget the no goalies in extra time. BOOOOOOOOO



    How about the goalies take turns firing from the line at an open goal on the other end of the pitch?
  • Reply 409 of 528
    dojobidojobi Posts: 73member
    Blindfolded players could be the go
  • Reply 410 of 528
    bergermeisterbergermeister Posts: 6,784member
    Decide the match on the outfits worn by the fans. The side with the craziest (a.k.a. best or strangest) outifts wins.



    I think Germany will fail again against Portugal 0-1, and France will beat Italy 1-0.
  • Reply 411 of 528
    vox barbaravox barbara Posts: 2,021member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Bergermeister

    Decide the match on the outfits worn by the fans. The side with the craziest (a.k.a. best or strangest) outifts wins.



    I think Germany will fail again against Portugal 0-1, and France will beat Italy 1-0.




    Come on. Germany will beat Portugal.



    Btw, France roll it!
  • Reply 412 of 528
    imac davidimac david Posts: 286member
    Gilsch,



    are you being deliberately dense for fun?



    Quote:

    This last reply, I won't let go because you're using the "victim" recourse after you got called on your innacuracies.



    What? You misrepresent what I say and I'm crying "victim"? The only factual mistake I made was to rely on Eurosport's website which stated SG played 44 games when the Liverpool FC website stated 53. Happy to be corrected, no victim mentality here.



    Quote:

    I usually quote people so that they see exactly what I'm addressing . You used the 44 figure again after I had corrected you.



    You should have done. I'll help you. I wrote:



    Quote:

    However, I still think the question of tiredness after 44 or 53 matches is an interesting one, and whether training ?counts? in terms of a player?s level of tiredness. My view has long been that physical activity of itself is not the defining factor, it?s the emotional intensity of the activity.



    Do you see now? I wasn't claiming 44 was the correct number. I was saying the question of how a player feels after a season is finished is more bound with the intensity of the matches rather than the strict number of matches and surrounding training.



    Will you answer a specific question for me? Do you think that SG (or ANY player) would be in exactly the same physical and mental state at the start of this WC if those 53 matches had all been friendlies instead of the Premiership, FA Cup and Champions League?



    If you answer Yes, then I think you'd be fairly unique. If you answer No, then you fundamentally agree with me.



    You seem to have a problem with my use of the word tired. I'll have one more go, and will try and keep it as simple as possible so you can follow my argument. If you still can't follow it, then I'll just have to live with the thought that somewhere in the world a person called Gilsch thinks I'm a thick as pig-sh*t. I can live with that



    Training makes athletes physically tired, which they recover 100% from in anything between a few hours and a day. Competitive matches make athletes physically AND mentally tired, which takes longer to recover. Hence excessive competitive matches, without sufficient rest in between, causes a general fatigue that impacts a subsequent performance.



    Got it?



    Quote:

    That's why there is this thing called "player rotation" that most top managers use so as not to burn out their top players. Of course, you know more than them.



    Of course there is!! How many games did Liverpool play in total? From their website I think it is 65 - feel free to correct if I'm wrong. No Liverpool player played all 65. All our argument is about really is whether 53 games is too many for SG. You say it is, I don't.



    Also from their website:

    Alonso: 53 games

    Carra: 57 games

    Cisse: 53 games

    Finnan: 53 games

    Garcia: 50 games

    Hyppia: 59 games

    Reina: 51 games

    Risse: 54 games.



    Seems to me the Anfield management don't consider 53 games a season for a player too many, does it? I don't recall the last few Liverpool matches being played by knackered zombies



    Quote:

    You didn't refer to Japan especifically. When I mentioned the long trip to Japan your silly comeback analogy was about teams playing friendlies in Dubai and how the trips aren't tiring because "victory or defeat is not important". So why bring it up related to the Japan trip?



    Because it wasn't a "comeback analogy". It was a comment about how premiership teams can happily accept a few friendlies in the middle of the season as they know it does not negatively affect their players.



    Quote:

    By the way, please enlighten me about the trips any Premiership side made to Dubai this calendar year between "gaps in the fixture list"? Wait. I already know the answer. ZERO.



    Now you are getting extremely silly. I should have realised by now that you read things as you wish. It should have been obvious that I wrote Dubai as shorthand for any middle eastern/far east/european country. Next time I'll write "Dubai (or anywhere else in the world for that matter)".



    I did a quick Google search, and found that Everton went to Dublin for a friendly on the 25th April to play Bohemian FC, with 2 games left in the season. So there's one example of a friendly match during the regular season. I'm sure there are more.



    Quote:

    Who cares about golf. For you to compare a golf player to a world class football player on any level is laughable at best.



    Why? because it supports my argument that perfomance destroying fatigue is more mental than physical? OK, whatever......



    David
  • Reply 413 of 528
    gilschgilsch Posts: 1,995member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by iMac David

    You seem to have a problem with my use of the word tired.



    I think it is you who has a problem here....of not knowing where you stand. At times it is tiring, at times it isn't. Depends on what's beneficial to your argument....at the time.
    Quote:

    If you still can't follow it, then I'll just have to live with the thought that somewhere in the world a person called Gilsch thinks I'm a thick as pig-sh*t. I can live with that.



    Oh come on. Don't be so hard on yourself. If that were the case by the way, I think after this thread it would be more than just me. Jk.
    Quote:

    Training makes athletes physically tired, which they recover 100% from in anything between a few hours and a day. Competitive matches make athletes physically AND mentally tired, which takes longer to recover. Hence excessive competitive matches, without sufficient rest in between, causes a general fatigue that impacts a subsequent performance.



    My point all along. You're so all over the place that now you're making my arguments for me. This is a classic.

    Quote:

    Of course there is!! How many games did Liverpool play in total? From their website I think it is 65 - feel free to correct if I'm wrong. No Liverpool player played all 65.



    Funny how you're so giddy about Gerrard not having played the most games for LFC. Here's a couple clues for you: "Player rotation". Since you've clearly never heard of it, what it is is you try to rest your star players so that they're as fresh as possible for all competitions. It's not a real hard issue to comprehend.
    Quote:

    Seems to me the Anfield management don't consider 53 games a season for a player too many, does it? I don't recall the last few Liverpool matches being played by knackered zombies



    You might want to share with us how you know the Anfield management doesn't consider 53 games too much? Or wait, it is just another case of you pulling stuff out of your ... again! BenÃ*tez, you know, the manager? Disagrees with you. But I guess you know more than him. lol If you notice, the players who played more games than Gerrard were defenders(Carra-Hyypia) and that's simply because LFC were pretty thin at those positions last year. By the way, it wasn't just 53 games at that point. It was 57 including England games.It really isn't that difficult mate. Try a little harder.
    Quote:

    Because it wasn't a "comeback analogy". It was a comment about how premiership teams can happily accept a few friendlies in the middle of the season as they know it does not negatively affect their players.



    What a crock...you can't be serious. Your Dubai comment was in direct reply to what I said about LFC having had to travel to Japan right before the fixture heavy x-mas period. You just had no idea it wasn't for "a friendly" and that was obvious for all to see.

    Quote:

    I did a quick Google search, and found that Everton went to Dublin for a friendly on the 25th April to play Bohemian FC, with 2 games left in the season. So there's one example of a friendly match during the regular season.



    You said teams "accept friendlies in the middle of the season". Two games left is not the middle of the season in the real world. And yes....I can see how you'd compare a one hour flight to Dublin with a 15 hour flight to Japan or a 10 hour flight to Dubai.



    "I'm sure there are more." My request still stands. Dubai: Find them.

    Quote:

    Why? because it supports my argument that perfomance destroying fatigue is more mental than physical? OK, whatever......



    No. Because it's quite insane and absurd to compare a world class football player with a golfer on ANY level. By the way, most golfers are old and fat so maybe that's why they feel "knackered" after just 8 weeks of driving around their little golf carts telling their caddies which club to get for them.





    Ok, it's been....interesting. Don't bother looking for "friendlies" in Dubai because they never happened. If you want to keep this going feel free to PM me and save yourself some further embarrassment.



    Cheerios.
  • Reply 414 of 528
    imac davidimac david Posts: 286member
    Gilsch,



    I've tried to be polite, but you're really not very good at reading comprehension, are you?



    Quote:

    At times it is tiring, at times it isn't.



    Correct. Training is not mentally tiring, competition is.

    BTW, you didn't answer my simple question in my previous post. I wonder why that is.........



    Quote:

    My point all along.



    Which I agreed with from the beginning. You have just been unable, or unwilling, to read what I write.



    Our ONLY disagreement is whether SG exceeded a "limit". You think he did, I don't.



    Quote:

    Funny how you're so giddy about Gerrard not having played the most games for LFC.



    A great example of you reading what you want to read. Where did I write, or imply, that because SG did not play the most games I'm "giddy"? My point was that Liverpool had several players who played roughly (i.e between 50 and 60) games, not just SG. If roughly 53 games in a season was too many then Liverpool would have been playing crap during the last few matches. They weren't.



    Quote:

    You might want to share with us how you know the Anfield management doesn't consider 53 games too much? Or wait, it is just another case of you pulling stuff out of your ... again! BenÃ*tez, you know, the manager? Disagrees with you.



    I'm guessing here, true, but if Benitez thought 53 games were too many, then maybe, just maybe, Benitez would have rested SG (and others) more often.



    Quote:

    Your Dubai comment was in direct reply to what I said about LFC having had to travel to Japan right before the fixture heavy x-mas period.



    Bollocks it was. Read it again. It was said in the context of my idea that friendlies don't tire players in the same way as proper matches. Nice try, though.



    Quote:

    You just had no idea it wasn't for "a friendly" and that was obvious for all to see.



    Of course I knew what it was for, which is why I didn't write "Liverpool went to Japan" and said "teams fly to Dubai"! Christ, just read what I write, don't make things up!



    As for whether I knew what Japan was about - I'm sure you recall Benitez' comments when he was asked prior to the Japan trip whether was taking it seriously. If you don't, I'll help you - He said [and apologies in advance for not knowing the precise words he used, as I know if I don't apologise in advance and I get one or more words ever so slightly wrong you'll pick it up and go on and on and on........] 'Liverpool Football Club is about winning trophies'. So of course it was a serious trip, and not a friendly.



    Quote:

    My request still stands. Dubai: Find them



    It's like nailing jelly to a wall with you, isn't it? I've already said that Dubai was shorthand for anywhere in the world.



    Quote:

    No. Because it's quite insane and absurd to compare a world class football player with a golfer on ANY level. By the way, most golfers are old and fat so maybe that's why they feel "knackered" after just 8 weeks of driving around their little golf carts telling their caddies which club to get for them.



    This is a world class statement! Are you still in your teens?



    David



    PS you also wrote



    Quote:

    I think after this thread it would be more than just me. Jk.



    would you care to explain the "Jk". I have to admit that in this regard you do have me stumped.
  • Reply 415 of 528
    gilschgilsch Posts: 1,995member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by iMac David

    would you care to explain the "Jk". I have to admit that in this regard you do have me stumped.



    Just let it go David. All your backpedaling, made up bullshit and unwillingness to accept reality in the form of the simplest of commonplace practices by managers and teams was enough to leave me knackered.



    Cheers
  • Reply 416 of 528
    bergermeisterbergermeister Posts: 6,784member


    What a waste of time and space.



    Once upon a time there was a thread about the world cup... Wonder where it went...? Oh! Here it is.





    Is anybody actually going to either of the games? If not, how do you plan to watch? I'll be at home watching on our 42" plasma in HD hoping the rainy season (which is currently dumping tons of rain on us) and the typhoon passing by don't knock out the satelite signal; we might miss the live showings.
  • Reply 417 of 528
    dojobidojobi Posts: 73member
    I'd love to be at the games, but unfortunately Australia is just that bit too far away from Germany



    I'm going to watch them on my rear projection TV with a few mates. It's only standard definition and about 6 years old, but it's 153cm and does the job well enough.



    I'll be recording them with my HDTV capture card so I can review the Italian dives afterwards



    EDIT: Forgot my predictions - France 2 - Italy 1 in extra time and Germany over Portugal 1-0 in standard time.
  • Reply 418 of 528
    gilschgilsch Posts: 1,995member
    Of course whining continuously about fans booing at sporting events (shocking!) was not a waste of time and space.



    I'll be watching on my Sony Watchman.



    My predictions: Germany 2- Portugal 1 (moderate to medium booing).



    Italy 2-France 1 (medium to high booing).
  • Reply 419 of 528
    gilschgilsch Posts: 1,995member
    dojobi: Speaking of divers

    Quote:

    Beckenbauer hits out at 'cheats'





    Franz Beckenbauer has called for a summit meeting of players, coaches and referees in an attempt to stop the increasing trend towards play-acting and feigning injury, which has blighted matches at the World Cup in Germany.



  • Reply 420 of 528
    dojobidojobi Posts: 73member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Gilsch

    dojobi: Speaking of divers



    That's very good to hear that something is being done about it.



    We're almost over the dive that knocked us out of the cup, but the reality is that diving just shouldn't be happening. We weren't the only team that had a match result directly affected by it either. A good example is Henry's effort in the France-Spain game. That was a disgrace.



    EDIT: I just read a few local forums, and it looks like we AREN'T over the dive yet . These are pretty funny, so I thought I'd share.







    I think all of Australia is going for France atm.
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