Can you imagine - Team A wins the penalties. Then plays for 90 minutes with 10 men behind the ball, no attacking movements with more than 2 players, just waiting for the 90 minutes to be up.
I've said this before. If we want to avoid penalties as the tie-breaker, we might try golden-goal overtime, but with no linesmen... No offsides in OT. OT wouldn't last 15 minutes, the attacking team will either score right away or get burned pinching...
Don't speak for all of us when you say "If we want to avoid penalties.....".
I'm convinced they are the best way to settle a game if tied after 120 minutes of normal play. I think it can be too artificial to do things like abolish offside, remove a player every 5 minutes, the Golden Goal etc.
No, stick with a penalty shootout - let's see who has the nerve, technique and courage. Who can size the moment, and say "this ball is going in".
For the number of games Gerrard played, I?m happy to stand corrected ? The Liverpool FC website is probably more accurate than the Eurosport player profile section.
However, I still think the question of tiredness after 44 or 53 matches is an interesting one, and whether training ?counts? in terms of a player?s level of tiredness. My view has long been that physical activity of itself is not the defining factor, it?s the emotional intensity of the activity.
You stand corrected yet you still use the lower figure. Let's face it. You'll just use any argument you can to attempt to prove your point.
You must be the only human being who thinks intense professional training (for a world cup of all things) is only tiring conditional to its emotional intensity. Bizarre. Why don't you go do some laps, then sprints and jumping and quickness exercises, followed by a scrimmage and then come back and tell me you didn't get tired?? Then do that 4-5 times a week.
Then go out and play a 90 minute match in front of a hostile crowd of 30-50 thousand and defenders coming at you full speed when you have control of the ball. Yeah, I'm sure there is no emotional intensity or pressure whatsoever in doing that. Even less so when you are the team captain and the player counted on to bail you out when necessary like in an FA cup final played in front of 75,000 people. Gerrard carries Liverpool. Your argument is really silly...and I'm being generous when I use that word.
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To illustrate what I mean, take golf. It is not a strenuous activity, but players who play for 8 straight weeks talk of being knackered ? that?s because they are mentally fighting for victory day after day.
As opposed to football players who fight for victory non-stop...not even for the X-mas holidays... for 40 straight weeks or more?? Your comparison is ridiculous. I wasn't planning on using that word but after reading that....
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Another example is Daley Thompson (I don?t know what nationality you are, so apologies if this doesn?t mean much), who was a world and Olympic decathlon champion. He trained hard every day of the year. And that included Christmas day, as he liked the idea of his competitors taking that day off and yet he was still out there training. So daily training didn?t make him tired, only competitions. That?s why when teams fly to Dubai for a friendly match I don?t think it really tires the players, as victory or defeat is not important
Yeah, I'm sure training for a decathlon didn't tire him on a day to day basis. He probably didn't need to drink anything to prevent de-hydration either. I don't know if your little Dubai friendly match example has to do with my comment about Liverpool traveling to Japan mid season....with the fixture problems that caused i.e having to play make up games at the tune of 3 games in 8 days a couple of times. That was an official FIFA tournament not friendly matches and this just proves that you're arguing about something you know little about.
That was the Club World tournament and you must be the only one who thinks traveling to Japan to play official games and then coming back to the congested Premiership Chistmas schedule isn't mentally and physically draining. And being a golfer doesn't compare to being the captain of LFC (and the man who carries the team) and having to deal with the expectations of millions of fans.....and then having to deal with the British press. In fact it doesn't compare to being a professional footie player period.
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Anyway, let?s just agree to disagree on this aspect ? but at least we agree that the Gerrard at the World cup was not the Gerrard of the Cup final or the Champions League final, or indeed most of the Premier league last year. Or do we?!
Oh, goodness. That's the whole premise of my argument. How could he be the same player when he was drained because of all of the above....and playing in a system not tailored for him?. He wasn't awful (though the penalty kick was) during the tournament so when you notice the difference between his performances for LFC and England it's a testament to what a great player he is. What's the rest of the players excuse? Terry, Lampard, Ferdinand, Beckham, Cole?
If you can't or don't want to see reality, that's your prerogative. Cheers.
One of my friends suggested that before the knock-out matches begin, the penalties should be taken. That way, one of the teams knows they're going to be fucked if they don't make something happen during regulation.
One of my friends suggested that before the knock-out matches begin, the penalties should be taken. That way, one of the teams knows they're going to be fucked if they don't make something happen during regulation.
I don't know about that one. That would give the team who won the penalties quite an advantage. They could just sit and defend all day, even more so than the way it's already being done these days.
Plus imagine the pressure on the other team as the game goes on and they fail to score.
It may be better to flip a coin and keep the winner secret and then just let them go at it. That way, not knowing who has already won the penalty/coin flip would force the teams to die trying to score in regulation.
Playing without goalies in extra time would be fun too.
I don't think there is a way to avoid penalty kicks.
I take back everything good I said about France. lol This was one ugly game. Credit the Portuguese for this cup's record of diving in a single game. Pathetic.
I said this was a mediocre cup. I'd like to add ugly to that aswell. Any disagreements now?
I think it can be too artificial to do things like abolish offside, remove a player every 5 minutes, the Golden Goal etc.
No, stick with a penalty shootout - let's see who has the nerve, technique and courage. Who can size the moment, and say "this ball is going in".
David
This is why I say "if", I'm increasingly less convinced that any of the alternatives are better than penalty shots, with the exception of the golden goal.
Personally, I see nothing wrong with having both sides play untill somebody just wins the game. If TV broadcasting and commercials would allow for it, then I think that playing untill a goal is scored is the way to go. Those of us who've enjoyed 6 or 7 periods of overtime hockey know how entertaining that can be!
The only problem with that; a football field is kinda bigger than a hockey fields so it's harder for players to play 5 hours straight and not just straight-out collapse.
It is said that on average, on a 90-minute game, the players run about 6 miles. A 180-minute game would be at least 10 miles and so on. That's a lot of miles.
The only problem with that; a football field is kinda bigger than a hockey fields so it's harder for players to play 5 hours straight and not just straight-out collapse.
It is said that on average, on a 90-minute game, the players run about 6 miles. A 180-minute game would be at least 10 miles and so on. That's a lot of miles.
But not if they spend a lot of time flopping around on the ground!
The only problem with playing till someone scores is player exhaustion. Both sides would have everyone back and there would be little chance for any goals. If they did do this, there would have to be additional subs allowed. In hockey (which I enjoy) the lines are constantly rotating. Why not have each team get one or two PK's between each extra period. If they score more on the PK's the game is over and each extra period would be golden goal.
Don't speak for all of us when you say "If we want to avoid penalties.....".
I'm convinced they are the best way to settle a game if tied after 120 minutes of normal play. I think it can be too artificial to do things like abolish offside, remove a player every 5 minutes, the Golden Goal etc.
No, stick with a penalty shootout - let's see who has the nerve, technique and courage. Who can size the moment, and say "this ball is going in".
Why not have each team get one or two PK's between each extra period. If they score more on the PK's the game is over and each extra period would be golden goal.
reg
That sounds like a fun game. But it wouldn't be soccer.
lol If only. I agree with you. I feel somewhat vindicated when I said this was a mediocre cup and everybody jumped on me.
This cup has been ugly. I have never seen so much diving and the argies aren't even in it anymore.
Three things I think need to be done NOW.
1-Punish the divers. Use video evidence after games. During games would stop play too much. Opposing coaches/managers would ask for instant replay over and over.
2-STOP the official clock for every substitution and every injury/"injury".
3-STOP the clock every time a wall needs to be set-up.
France barely attacked the whole game after the initial 5 minutes or so. Five shots for the whole game confirm that. This is not the NBA. Defensive games are boring and ugly.
Everyone has these exotic ideas to try to make things more offensive. I would tend to agree, but I think punishing diving more severely and allowing offsides only to be called when there's daylight between the players is enough to make a major impact.
I thought we were having a fairly sensible discussion on tiredness/exhaustion and yet you seem to be deliberately misrepresenting what I wrote, or worse, reading what you want to read.
I didn't "use" the lower figure of 44 - I merely referred to it as an introduction to the question of tiredness. Further, of course a cup final is emotionally intensive, as is ANY premiership match. Where and when did I say it wasn't? What isn't emotionally intensive is training, it is just tiring. To follow your argument to it's logical conclusion Gerrard should put his feet up between every actual match so he is as fresh as possible. Somehow, I doubt you'd advocate that.
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yeah, I'm sure training for a decathlon didn't tire him on a day to day basis
of course it did! That's my whole point! The guy would train until he threw up - according to you that would mean on Olympic final day he'd have nothing left in his locker. According to me, because he limited his competitions, the training meant he was at peak physical and mental condition to win, which he did. Back to Gerrard - you say 53 matches in a season with a 3 week gap is too many. I don't agree.
Again, you're being obtuse if you can't follow my golf analogy. You tell me, then, why, in your opinion, should a golfer be knackered after say 8 weeks of competitions. My opinion is that he is mentally exhausted, not physically. And that is the crux of the matter.
Livrpool and Japan - jeez, nowhere did I refer to that. My comment re Dubai was a reference to the friendlies teams play when they have a gap in the fixture list. I even made it easy for you by using the word 'friendly'. Japan was a tournament that they wanted to win. Different things all together.
So, to recap.
IMO, Gerrard had enough time between the end of the season and the start of the WC to be both physically and mentally rested. I believe that he didn't perform as we know he can because, fundamentally, Sven did not organise the team around him, and sort out how Lampard should play with him. I cannot believe that he 'froze', as he's too experienced. But there must have been something else during the Portugal game for him to have been so anonymous.
And, btw, I'm NOT singling out Gerrard. I think he's the only world class player we have right now.
Oh, sod it, it's 1 in the morning, time for bed. I don't want to write any mor for now. You'll probably misread this all anyway.
Everyone has these exotic ideas to try to make things more offensive. I would tend to agree, but I think punishing diving more severely and allowing offsides only to be called when there's daylight between the players is enough to make a major impact.
Just to be clear, I'm not calling for a replay of the France-Portugal game.
Comments
Can you imagine - Team A wins the penalties. Then plays for 90 minutes with 10 men behind the ball, no attacking movements with more than 2 players, just waiting for the 90 minutes to be up.
Regards,
David
I'm convinced they are the best way to settle a game if tied after 120 minutes of normal play. I think it can be too artificial to do things like abolish offside, remove a player every 5 minutes, the Golden Goal etc.
No, stick with a penalty shootout - let's see who has the nerve, technique and courage. Who can size the moment, and say "this ball is going in".
David
Originally posted by iMac David
For the number of games Gerrard played, I?m happy to stand corrected ? The Liverpool FC website is probably more accurate than the Eurosport player profile section.
However, I still think the question of tiredness after 44 or 53 matches is an interesting one, and whether training ?counts? in terms of a player?s level of tiredness. My view has long been that physical activity of itself is not the defining factor, it?s the emotional intensity of the activity.
You must be the only human being who thinks intense professional training (for a world cup of all things) is only tiring conditional to its emotional intensity. Bizarre. Why don't you go do some laps, then sprints and jumping and quickness exercises, followed by a scrimmage and then come back and tell me you didn't get tired?? Then do that 4-5 times a week.
Then go out and play a 90 minute match in front of a hostile crowd of 30-50 thousand and defenders coming at you full speed when you have control of the ball. Yeah, I'm sure there is no emotional intensity or pressure whatsoever in doing that. Even less so when you are the team captain and the player counted on to bail you out when necessary like in an FA cup final played in front of 75,000 people. Gerrard carries Liverpool. Your argument is really silly...and I'm being generous when I use that word.
To illustrate what I mean, take golf. It is not a strenuous activity, but players who play for 8 straight weeks talk of being knackered ? that?s because they are mentally fighting for victory day after day.
As opposed to football players who fight for victory non-stop...not even for the X-mas holidays... for 40 straight weeks or more??
Another example is Daley Thompson (I don?t know what nationality you are, so apologies if this doesn?t mean much), who was a world and Olympic decathlon champion. He trained hard every day of the year. And that included Christmas day, as he liked the idea of his competitors taking that day off and yet he was still out there training. So daily training didn?t make him tired, only competitions. That?s why when teams fly to Dubai for a friendly match I don?t think it really tires the players, as victory or defeat is not important
Yeah, I'm sure training for a decathlon didn't tire him on a day to day basis.
That was the Club World tournament and you must be the only one who thinks traveling to Japan to play official games and then coming back to the congested Premiership Chistmas schedule isn't mentally and physically draining. And being a golfer doesn't compare to being the captain of LFC (and the man who carries the team) and having to deal with the expectations of millions of fans.....and then having to deal with the British press. In fact it doesn't compare to being a professional footie player period.
Anyway, let?s just agree to disagree on this aspect ? but at least we agree that the Gerrard at the World cup was not the Gerrard of the Cup final or the Champions League final, or indeed most of the Premier league last year. Or do we?!
Oh, goodness.
If you can't or don't want to see reality, that's your prerogative. Cheers.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
One of my friends suggested that before the knock-out matches begin, the penalties should be taken. That way, one of the teams knows they're going to be fucked if they don't make something happen during regulation.
ha ha! That's a great idea actually.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
One of my friends suggested that before the knock-out matches begin, the penalties should be taken. That way, one of the teams knows they're going to be fucked if they don't make something happen during regulation.
I don't know about that one. That would give the team who won the penalties quite an advantage. They could just sit and defend all day, even more so than the way it's already being done these days.
Plus imagine the pressure on the other team as the game goes on and they fail to score.
It may be better to flip a coin and keep the winner secret and then just let them go at it. That way, not knowing who has already won the penalty/coin flip would force the teams to die trying to score in regulation.
Playing without goalies in extra time would be fun too.
I don't think there is a way to avoid penalty kicks.
I said this was a mediocre cup. I'd like to add ugly to that aswell. Any disagreements now?
Originally posted by iMac David
I think it can be too artificial to do things like abolish offside, remove a player every 5 minutes, the Golden Goal etc.
No, stick with a penalty shootout - let's see who has the nerve, technique and courage. Who can size the moment, and say "this ball is going in".
David
This is why I say "if", I'm increasingly less convinced that any of the alternatives are better than penalty shots, with the exception of the golden goal.
Personally, I see nothing wrong with having both sides play untill somebody just wins the game. If TV broadcasting and commercials would allow for it, then I think that playing untill a goal is scored is the way to go. Those of us who've enjoyed 6 or 7 periods of overtime hockey know how entertaining that can be!
It is said that on average, on a 90-minute game, the players run about 6 miles. A 180-minute game would be at least 10 miles and so on. That's a lot of miles.
Originally posted by Gene Clean
The only problem with that; a football field is kinda bigger than a hockey fields so it's harder for players to play 5 hours straight and not just straight-out collapse.
It is said that on average, on a 90-minute game, the players run about 6 miles. A 180-minute game would be at least 10 miles and so on. That's a lot of miles.
But not if they spend a lot of time flopping around on the ground!
reg
Originally posted by iMac David
Don't speak for all of us when you say "If we want to avoid penalties.....".
I'm convinced they are the best way to settle a game if tied after 120 minutes of normal play. I think it can be too artificial to do things like abolish offside, remove a player every 5 minutes, the Golden Goal etc.
No, stick with a penalty shootout - let's see who has the nerve, technique and courage. Who can size the moment, and say "this ball is going in".
David
Damn straight.
Originally posted by reg
Why not have each team get one or two PK's between each extra period. If they score more on the PK's the game is over and each extra period would be golden goal.
reg
That sounds like a fun game. But it wouldn't be soccer.
Seriously, somebody start a petition.
Originally posted by Frank777
Come on guys. We need a do over.
Seriously, somebody start a petition.
lol If only. I agree with you. I feel somewhat vindicated when I said this was a mediocre cup and everybody jumped on me.
This cup has been ugly. I have never seen so much diving and the argies aren't even in it anymore.
Three things I think need to be done NOW.
1-Punish the divers. Use video evidence after games. During games would stop play too much. Opposing coaches/managers would ask for instant replay over and over.
2-STOP the official clock for every substitution and every injury/"injury".
3-STOP the clock every time a wall needs to be set-up.
Originally posted by Frank777
Come on guys. We need a do over.
Seriously, somebody start a petition.
Everyone has these exotic ideas to try to make things more offensive. I would tend to agree, but I think punishing diving more severely and allowing offsides only to be called when there's daylight between the players is enough to make a major impact.
I thought we were having a fairly sensible discussion on tiredness/exhaustion and yet you seem to be deliberately misrepresenting what I wrote, or worse, reading what you want to read.
I didn't "use" the lower figure of 44 - I merely referred to it as an introduction to the question of tiredness. Further, of course a cup final is emotionally intensive, as is ANY premiership match. Where and when did I say it wasn't? What isn't emotionally intensive is training, it is just tiring. To follow your argument to it's logical conclusion Gerrard should put his feet up between every actual match so he is as fresh as possible. Somehow, I doubt you'd advocate that.
yeah, I'm sure training for a decathlon didn't tire him on a day to day basis
of course it did! That's my whole point! The guy would train until he threw up - according to you that would mean on Olympic final day he'd have nothing left in his locker. According to me, because he limited his competitions, the training meant he was at peak physical and mental condition to win, which he did. Back to Gerrard - you say 53 matches in a season with a 3 week gap is too many. I don't agree.
Again, you're being obtuse if you can't follow my golf analogy. You tell me, then, why, in your opinion, should a golfer be knackered after say 8 weeks of competitions. My opinion is that he is mentally exhausted, not physically. And that is the crux of the matter.
Livrpool and Japan - jeez, nowhere did I refer to that. My comment re Dubai was a reference to the friendlies teams play when they have a gap in the fixture list. I even made it easy for you by using the word 'friendly'. Japan was a tournament that they wanted to win. Different things all together.
So, to recap.
IMO, Gerrard had enough time between the end of the season and the start of the WC to be both physically and mentally rested. I believe that he didn't perform as we know he can because, fundamentally, Sven did not organise the team around him, and sort out how Lampard should play with him. I cannot believe that he 'froze', as he's too experienced. But there must have been something else during the Portugal game for him to have been so anonymous.
And, btw, I'm NOT singling out Gerrard. I think he's the only world class player we have right now.
Oh, sod it, it's 1 in the morning, time for bed. I don't want to write any mor for now. You'll probably misread this all anyway.
David
Originally posted by Splinemodel
Everyone has these exotic ideas to try to make things more offensive. I would tend to agree, but I think punishing diving more severely and allowing offsides only to be called when there's daylight between the players is enough to make a major impact.
Just to be clear, I'm not calling for a replay of the France-Portugal game.
I want the whole darn event restaged.