You see this Spanish performance really puts things in perspective. Forget England's 'heat' excuses - this was the most energetic performance so far in probably the hottest conditions.
Torres was awesome - so was Puyol. Once Fabregas gets going I think we are seeing genuine contenders here.
It does. This was good for the spanish: hopefully it will build some confidence for them. It's always painful to see them underperform, and maybe this year they will buck the trend.
With that said, they clearly deserved the game today, but I felt the referee was protecting them with the (obviously) dubious red card as well as a number of suspect offsides calls. If Ukraine can take anything from this, it's that they have the uncanny ability to (paritally) make up for bad passing with ruthless attacking of 50/50 balls in the midfield. For that I can see how they held Italy to 0-0, and thumped Costa Rica 4-0 in the warm ups. Spain earned the victory, but were lucky to have a 4-0 victory. I hope Ukraine can somehow appeal to the red card, which happens all the time in the club leagues, but I have no idea if it's permissible in the World Cup.
Slightly off topic:
I think John Terry is the best defender in the world.
I do not know about that. FIFA has been very explicit about NOT PULLING from the uniform. And we are not talking about hard pulls but any sort of pulling.
The referee saw the Ukraine guy pulling from the shorts, that's a foul. It was inside the box, that's a penalty. Last man, that's a red card.
The defender would have had a better chance of getting away with it by doing a hard tackle as that is not necessarily a foul.
The only thing the Ukrainians can appeal is that the pulling might have been outside the box.
I do not know about that. FIFA has been very explicit about NOT PULLING from the uniform. And we are not talking about hard pulls but any sort of pulling.
...
If you apply strictly, you know...
I saw a lot of slight pulls
Quote:
The referee saw the Ukraine guy pulling from the shorts, that's a foul. It was inside the box, that's a penalty. Last man, that's a red card.
The referee saw the Ukraine guy pulling from the shorts, that's a foul. It was inside the box, that's a penalty. Last man, that's a red card.
No, because the referee appropriately played advantage -- nothing the defender did caused a change of possession, or even a stutter. When [Villa ?] shot, he was moving very quickly and lost his balance. The referee wasn't very close to the play, and I can understand that it looked like a foul from where he was, but in the replays it is a very clear non-foul. The defender shouldn't have to sit out of the next game for that.
This is a great thread, by the way: everyone seems to have different views and opinions.
Not saying I can make better predictions, but no way that will be the semifinal. I'm glad the Dutch left home some of their more annoying players, but still. And Ukraine doesn't have the tradition to make it to the semifinals.
I can understand that it looked like a foul from where he was, but in the replays it is a very clear non-foul.
You can see in the replays that the Ukrainian was pulling Villa's shorts. The referee saw that and then he went up to the defender and made the pulling gesture.
Pulling from the uniform is a foul, that's it, doesn't matter if it affects the play or not.
Not only that but you can have up to half of COMMEBOL coming to the World Cup, as it should be.
Ok, we're gonna have to disagree here. Half of Conmebol (not Commebol...at least get the terms right)???
I guess you didn't know that almost half of CONMEBOL gets the chance to qualify.The fifth position in the south american qualifiers gets to go to the "repechaje" against the winner of the Oceania qualifiers....
The minnows of Uruguay lost to Australia. So if Uruguay is not good enough to beat Australia.....
Oh, they'll make it. If they make it out of the group, which isn't unlikely still, they get to play a crap team from group G. Then it's the QFs.
Quote:
Originally posted by soulcrusher
Pulling from the uniform is a foul, that's it, doesn't matter if it affects the play or not.
There was a lot of uniform pulling [all but that incident] that went uncalled. I highly, highly doubt that the very mild tug on the shorts was even the impetus for the penalty. And following up on Gilsch, half of Conmebol does go to the World Cup, most of which promptly exits.
well that was a few seconds of excitement in the germany-poland match.. at 89 minutes 2 shots off the woodwork and a disallowed goal, all in 10 seconds....and as I type they score 91st minute!!!!
So, in only one of the last 5 world cups did most of CONMEBOL promptly exit.
I apologize, as I mistakenly lumped in Concacaf, since the discussion originated as "American" teams. Even so, there's a disturbing trend there. Who will qualify this year out of America? Brazil, Argentina, Ecuador, Mexico? There's a good chance that might be it.
well that was a few seconds of excitement in the germany-poland match.. at 89 minutes 2 shots off the woodwork and a disallowed goal, all in 10 seconds....and as I type they score 91st minute!!!!
Uhmm... now, i think there will be the inevitable match
Comments
Originally posted by soulcrusher
Puyol is the best defender in the world right now.
Maybe, but Ukras Attack was pretty weak too.
Whether Puyol is the best defender will reveal
when he is confronted with attackers who are on
par with his amazing skills.
Originally posted by segovius
You see this Spanish performance really puts things in perspective. Forget England's 'heat' excuses - this was the most energetic performance so far in probably the hottest conditions.
Torres was awesome - so was Puyol. Once Fabregas gets going I think we are seeing genuine contenders here.
It does. This was good for the spanish: hopefully it will build some confidence for them. It's always painful to see them underperform, and maybe this year they will buck the trend.
With that said, they clearly deserved the game today, but I felt the referee was protecting them with the (obviously) dubious red card as well as a number of suspect offsides calls. If Ukraine can take anything from this, it's that they have the uncanny ability to (paritally) make up for bad passing with ruthless attacking of 50/50 balls in the midfield. For that I can see how they held Italy to 0-0, and thumped Costa Rica 4-0 in the warm ups. Spain earned the victory, but were lucky to have a 4-0 victory. I hope Ukraine can somehow appeal to the red card, which happens all the time in the club leagues, but I have no idea if it's permissible in the World Cup.
Slightly off topic:
I think John Terry is the best defender in the world.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
dubious red card
I do not know about that. FIFA has been very explicit about NOT PULLING from the uniform. And we are not talking about hard pulls but any sort of pulling.
The referee saw the Ukraine guy pulling from the shorts, that's a foul. It was inside the box, that's a penalty. Last man, that's a red card.
The defender would have had a better chance of getting away with it by doing a hard tackle as that is not necessarily a foul.
The only thing the Ukrainians can appeal is that the pulling might have been outside the box.
Originally posted by soulcrusher
I do not know about that. FIFA has been very explicit about NOT PULLING from the uniform. And we are not talking about hard pulls but any sort of pulling.
...
If you apply strictly, you know...
I saw a lot of slight pulls
The referee saw the Ukraine guy pulling from the shorts, that's a foul. It was inside the box, that's a penalty. Last man, that's a red card.
Nice lesson in applied logic
Originally posted by soulcrusher
The referee saw the Ukraine guy pulling from the shorts, that's a foul. It was inside the box, that's a penalty. Last man, that's a red card.
No, because the referee appropriately played advantage -- nothing the defender did caused a change of possession, or even a stutter. When [Villa ?] shot, he was moving very quickly and lost his balance. The referee wasn't very close to the play, and I can understand that it looked like a foul from where he was, but in the replays it is a very clear non-foul. The defender shouldn't have to sit out of the next game for that.
This is a great thread, by the way: everyone seems to have different views and opinions.
Originally posted by SpcMs
Not saying I can make better predictions, but no way that will be the semifinal. I'm glad the Dutch left home some of their more annoying players, but still. And Ukraine doesn't have the tradition to make it to the semifinals.
I don't like to quote myself but...
:-P
Originally posted by segovius
yes - can you believe that the coach is going to start him again on Sunday???
It's unbelievable. I've been reading a couple of Brasilian newspapers and the online polls want Ronaldo to start....on the bench.
I only remember him running ONCE the time he spent on the field. Once.
A commentator said that Brasil started the game with only 9 players since Ronaldo and Adriano didn't play. lol
Originally posted by Splinemodel
I can understand that it looked like a foul from where he was, but in the replays it is a very clear non-foul.
You can see in the replays that the Ukrainian was pulling Villa's shorts. The referee saw that and then he went up to the defender and made the pulling gesture.
Pulling from the uniform is a foul, that's it, doesn't matter if it affects the play or not.
Originally posted by soulcrusher
Not only that but you can have up to half of COMMEBOL coming to the World Cup, as it should be.
Ok, we're gonna have to disagree here. Half of Conmebol (not Commebol...at least get the terms right)???
I guess you didn't know that almost half of CONMEBOL gets the chance to qualify.The fifth position in the south american qualifiers gets to go to the "repechaje" against the winner of the Oceania qualifiers....
The minnows of Uruguay lost to Australia. So if Uruguay is not good enough to beat Australia.....
Originally posted by SpcMs
I don't like to quote myself but...
:-P
Oh, they'll make it. If they make it out of the group, which isn't unlikely still, they get to play a crap team from group G. Then it's the QFs.
Originally posted by soulcrusher
Pulling from the uniform is a foul, that's it, doesn't matter if it affects the play or not.
There was a lot of uniform pulling [all but that incident] that went uncalled. I highly, highly doubt that the very mild tug on the shorts was even the impetus for the penalty. And following up on Gilsch, half of Conmebol does go to the World Cup, most of which promptly exits.
Jeez, what a match, finaly8)
I guess you didn't know that almost half of CONMEBOL gets the chance to qualify.
Dude, that's just what I said.
most of which promptly exits.
Let's look at the last 5 World Cups
(# of CONMEBOL teams that qualify/ number that go to second round)
Mexico 1986 - 4/4
Italy 1990 - 4/4
USA 1994 - 4/2
France 1998 - 5/4
Japan/Korea 2002 - 5/2
So, in only one of the last 5 world cups did most of CONMEBOL promptly exit.
Originally posted by soulcrusher
So, in only one of the last 5 world cups did most of CONMEBOL promptly exit.
I apologize, as I mistakenly lumped in Concacaf, since the discussion originated as "American" teams. Even so, there's a disturbing trend there. Who will qualify this year out of America? Brazil, Argentina, Ecuador, Mexico? There's a good chance that might be it.
Originally posted by Gilsch
...
A commentator said that Brasil started the game with only 9 players since Ronaldo and Adriano didn't play. lol
As i said: Shadows of them self
CONCACAF is known for its crappy football so I do not expect much from them. I still wish that Costa Rica beats Ecuador tomorrow.
Originally posted by MarcUK
well that was a few seconds of excitement in the germany-poland match.. at 89 minutes 2 shots off the woodwork and a disallowed goal, all in 10 seconds....and as I type they score 91st minute!!!!
Uhmm... now, i think there will be the inevitable match
Germany vs. England
in the next round. Wow.
For the english, is there a greater rivalry between England and Germany or England and Argentina?
Originally posted by soulcrusher
actually, I have a question about that.
For the english, is there a greater rivalry between England and Germany or England and Argentina?
Germany, but I hope Germany win. Also hope T&T beat England tomorrow.