I for one am very happy to see Spaces... that will make things at home a lot easier (the wife, the kids, the neighbors, G. Bush, etc all want a turn on my Mac). The Mail stationary thingy will be liked by the wife. Backup up with Time Machine looks nice, and even suggests Apple expects all computers to be left on all the time (it works at midnight so the Mac needs to be on, but could be asleep).
Otherwise, not all that impressed, but there is stuff Steve didn't show. We can only hope.
I think Apple really should drop the brushed metal, and could do so easily, but at this point in the game, why wouldn't they have done so already if they were going to do it for the final version? Espessially since betas/previews are heavily based on looks rather than actually usability.
I've never understood what it is about the brushed metal that some seem to dislike so much.
Those NDAs: Who does Apple not want you to release it to? It can't be from Microsoft, as they're also a developer. Does MS have a firewall between the MBU and Windows divisions? Did Apple ensure that no one from the Windows division of MS was allowed in?
I don't get it.
I forgot about that part in my reply.
Though, yes, MS is SUPPOSED to have a Chinese wall between their OS and MBU. That was required after the first settlement with the Feds in the earlier '90's.
"Breakthrough features like Time Machine and Spaces are good examples of how Mac OS X leads the industry in operating system innovation," said Steve Jobs, Apple's CEO. "While Microsoft tries to copy the version of OS X we shipped a few years ago, we're leaping ahead again with Leopard."
I disagree with this right here. I haven't had the chance to watch the keynote or the demonstrations about this since I'm at work, but....
Time Machine seems like a improved version of the Windows XP System Restore feature.
Spaces is pretty much linux's virtual desktop concept.
The iChat sharing desktop feature seems to be a pretty similar application to Windows XP's remote assitance feature.
No offense but that quote is pretty misleading, when 2 of the features seem to be taken from Windows XP itself.
I'm sure the only reason for the delay was so MS wouldn't steal features at the last minute. MS has no problem delaying their OS, and they know it takes them half a decade to release a new one. Therefore, if leopard came out at xmas, MS would rush to copy anything it could during spring.
I highly doubt that is the "only" reason. As mentioned, the moving back of WWDC was a signal that there would be no way Leopard would be released in 2006 (and MWSF 2007 would have been really pushing it).
Developers are only getting a feature incomplete preview release at this juncture; it likely won't contain some of the secret stuff alluded to until a later seed appears. That itself presents a problem with the whole general seeding/testing cycle (just basing on prior experience) since Apple has to balance enabling those features to allow for timely testing and feedback. The whole seeding process itself will take several months once Apple opens up the beta to Appleseed testers.
Another thing is the lack of Core 2 based products in the seed population relative to other hardware profiles which could slow the overall process (there will also be Tiger client and server seeds for testing which is going to spread the amount of time out thinly for some). Depending on how well this goes in terms of crushing bugs, there is likely a fair leeway built into the schedule (Spring 2007 being a general milestone target though I presume they will be aggressive in getting to a nominally stable release in addressing major issues by late 2006 in order to determine an approximate release timeframe).
There was a *ton* not touched upon in that curiously minimal and piecemeal Leopard "preview".
I mean, Time Machine and the iChat sharing features were pretty cool, but c'mon.
Anything that touched resolution independence wasn't discussed. No Finder. Not a word about Safari (which we know from Dave Hyatt's post is being prepared for "high-DPI websites"). Not a word about Spotlight's new UI. All this stuff is *so* obviously in the cards for Leopard it practically hurts.
Conspiratorial and RSN isn't my style, but it's not hard to pair those very obvious omissions with Jobs outright saying "look, we can't show you everything just yet" and not figure out that Leopard is going to have a major UI overhaul that, for whatever reason (justifiable paranoia? just plain not finished?), they don't yet want to show.
There was a *ton* not touched upon in that curiously minimal and piecemeal Leopard "preview".
I mean, Time Machine was pretty cool, but c'mon.
Anything that touched resolution independence wasn't discussed. No Finder. Not a word about Safari (which we know from Dave Hyatt's post is being prepared for "high-DPI websites"). Not a word about Spotlight's new UI. All this stuff is *so* obviously in the cards for Leopard it practically hurts.
Conspiratorial and RSN isn't my style, but it's not hard to pair those very obvious omissions with Jobs outright saying "look, we can't show you everything yet" and not figure out that Leopard is going to have a major UI overhaul that, for whatever reason (justifiable paranoia? just plain not finished?), they don't yet want to show.
I agree with that. I just can't figure it. there's nothing there that MS would suddenly feel that they MUST incorporate. They are so far behind already, that all they need, is to try to recode other major areas.
Yet, at the same time, Apple releases the beta version of their new spreadsheet.
I agree with that. I just can't figure it. there's nothing there that MS would suddenly feel that they MUST incorporate. They are so far behind already, that all they need, is to try to recode other major areas.
Well, it could also be unjustifiable paranoia.
I think more than anything, Apple wants to make sure MS doesn't pull a fast one and changes its visual appearance at the last minute (like they did, if you recall, with XP). Those things are easy to drop in at the last minute, but embarassing to change after releasing (at least until the next major update).
Also, if Apple is attempting something as bold and dramatic as I suspect, they very well simply need more time. Always better to underpromise and overdeliver than vice versa.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Yet, at the same time, Apple releases the beta version of their new spreadsheet.
Wha? I missed that one.
If if that was the case, though... Apple will be playing catch-up to MS in the Office Suite dept. for a *long* time to come. They really don't have to worry about keeping that stuff under wraps.
I think more than anything, Apple wants to make sure MS doesn't pull a fast one and changes its visual appearance at the last minute (like they did, if you recall, with XP). Those things are easy to drop in at the last minute, but embarassing to change after releasing (at least until the next major update).
Also, if Apple is attempting something as bold and dramatic as I suspect, they very well simply need more time. Always better to underpromise and overdeliver than vice versa.
Wha? I missed that one.
If if that was the case, though... Apple will be playing catch-up to MS in the Office Suite dept. for a *long* time to come. They really don't have to worry about keeping that stuff under wraps.
iWork, where this will likely end up, is more of an Appleworks replacement.
Anything that touched resolution independence wasn't discussed. No Finder. Not a word about Safari (which we know from Dave Hyatt's post is being prepared for "high-DPI websites"). Not a word about Spotlight's new UI. All this stuff is *so* obviously in the cards for Leopard it practically hurts.
I agree also. In fact the Leopard Preview on Apple.com shows nothing about Spotlight or iCal. With a redesigned finder I would expect new UI's for other applications.
Quote:
I agree with that. I just can't figure it. there's nothing there that MS would suddenly feel that they MUST incorporate. They are so far behind already, that all they need, is to try to recode other major areas.
I think its mostly showmanship as you described before. And its pretty annoying to blame it on MS. A little ribbing is funny but its going too far.
Quote:
Yet, at the same time, Apple releases the beta version of their new spreadsheet.
Is this what you are talking about. I wasn't sure if that was supposed to be Apple or not but it doesn't really say what company it comes from.
Comments
http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/coreanimation.html
I for one am very happy to see Spaces... that will make things at home a lot easier (the wife, the kids, the neighbors, G. Bush, etc all want a turn on my Mac). The Mail stationary thingy will be liked by the wife. Backup up with Time Machine looks nice, and even suggests Apple expects all computers to be left on all the time (it works at midnight so the Mac needs to be on, but could be asleep).
Otherwise, not all that impressed, but there is stuff Steve didn't show. We can only hope.
I think Apple really should drop the brushed metal, and could do so easily, but at this point in the game, why wouldn't they have done so already if they were going to do it for the final version? Espessially since betas/previews are heavily based on looks rather than actually usability.
I've never understood what it is about the brushed metal that some seem to dislike so much.
Those NDAs: Who does Apple not want you to release it to? It can't be from Microsoft, as they're also a developer. Does MS have a firewall between the MBU and Windows divisions? Did Apple ensure that no one from the Windows division of MS was allowed in?
I don't get it.
I forgot about that part in my reply.
Though, yes, MS is SUPPOSED to have a Chinese wall between their OS and MBU. That was required after the first settlement with the Feds in the earlier '90's.
Do I believe they actually do?
"Breakthrough features like Time Machine and Spaces are good examples of how Mac OS X leads the industry in operating system innovation," said Steve Jobs, Apple's CEO. "While Microsoft tries to copy the version of OS X we shipped a few years ago, we're leaping ahead again with Leopard."
I disagree with this right here. I haven't had the chance to watch the keynote or the demonstrations about this since I'm at work, but....
Time Machine seems like a improved version of the Windows XP System Restore feature.
Spaces is pretty much linux's virtual desktop concept.
The iChat sharing desktop feature seems to be a pretty similar application to Windows XP's remote assitance feature.
No offense but that quote is pretty misleading, when 2 of the features seem to be taken from Windows XP itself.
I disagree with this right here.
You mean you aren't under Steve's RDF!?!?!?
He should be highlighting how OS X has these hot features together rather than imply that Apple added them first or innovated them.
Naturally ...Jobs is the king of hyperbole.
He should be highlighting how OS X has these hot features together rather than imply that Apple added them first or innovated them.
Yup. When he showed those features, I wondered if he borrowed MS's copying machine.
I'm sure the only reason for the delay was so MS wouldn't steal features at the last minute. MS has no problem delaying their OS, and they know it takes them half a decade to release a new one. Therefore, if leopard came out at xmas, MS would rush to copy anything it could during spring.
I highly doubt that is the "only" reason. As mentioned, the moving back of WWDC was a signal that there would be no way Leopard would be released in 2006 (and MWSF 2007 would have been really pushing it).
Developers are only getting a feature incomplete preview release at this juncture; it likely won't contain some of the secret stuff alluded to until a later seed appears. That itself presents a problem with the whole general seeding/testing cycle (just basing on prior experience) since Apple has to balance enabling those features to allow for timely testing and feedback. The whole seeding process itself will take several months once Apple opens up the beta to Appleseed testers.
Another thing is the lack of Core 2 based products in the seed population relative to other hardware profiles which could slow the overall process (there will also be Tiger client and server seeds for testing which is going to spread the amount of time out thinly for some). Depending on how well this goes in terms of crushing bugs, there is likely a fair leeway built into the schedule (Spring 2007 being a general milestone target though I presume they will be aggressive in getting to a nominally stable release in addressing major issues by late 2006 in order to determine an approximate release timeframe).
Naturally ...Jobs is the king of hyperbole.
True. Good natured ribbing is fun but there is a thin line before it becomes tasteless.
Time Machine seems like a improved version of the Windows XP System Restore feature.
Spaces is pretty much linux's virtual desktop concept.
To me it didn't seem Jobs was saying we are the first to do this. It seems he is touting the easy and intuitive way it works in OS X.
I mean, Time Machine and the iChat sharing features were pretty cool, but c'mon.
Anything that touched resolution independence wasn't discussed. No Finder. Not a word about Safari (which we know from Dave Hyatt's post is being prepared for "high-DPI websites"). Not a word about Spotlight's new UI. All this stuff is *so* obviously in the cards for Leopard it practically hurts.
Conspiratorial and RSN isn't my style, but it's not hard to pair those very obvious omissions with Jobs outright saying "look, we can't show you everything just yet" and not figure out that Leopard is going to have a major UI overhaul that, for whatever reason (justifiable paranoia? just plain not finished?), they don't yet want to show.
There was a *ton* not touched upon in that curiously minimal and piecemeal Leopard "preview".
I mean, Time Machine was pretty cool, but c'mon.
Anything that touched resolution independence wasn't discussed. No Finder. Not a word about Safari (which we know from Dave Hyatt's post is being prepared for "high-DPI websites"). Not a word about Spotlight's new UI. All this stuff is *so* obviously in the cards for Leopard it practically hurts.
Conspiratorial and RSN isn't my style, but it's not hard to pair those very obvious omissions with Jobs outright saying "look, we can't show you everything yet" and not figure out that Leopard is going to have a major UI overhaul that, for whatever reason (justifiable paranoia? just plain not finished?), they don't yet want to show.
I agree with that. I just can't figure it. there's nothing there that MS would suddenly feel that they MUST incorporate. They are so far behind already, that all they need, is to try to recode other major areas.
Yet, at the same time, Apple releases the beta version of their new spreadsheet.
Yet, at the same time, Apple releases the beta version of their new spreadsheet.
I agree with that. I just can't figure it. there's nothing there that MS would suddenly feel that they MUST incorporate. They are so far behind already, that all they need, is to try to recode other major areas.
Well, it could also be unjustifiable paranoia.
I think more than anything, Apple wants to make sure MS doesn't pull a fast one and changes its visual appearance at the last minute (like they did, if you recall, with XP). Those things are easy to drop in at the last minute, but embarassing to change after releasing (at least until the next major update).
Also, if Apple is attempting something as bold and dramatic as I suspect, they very well simply need more time. Always better to underpromise and overdeliver than vice versa.
Yet, at the same time, Apple releases the beta version of their new spreadsheet.
Wha? I missed that one.
If if that was the case, though... Apple will be playing catch-up to MS in the Office Suite dept. for a *long* time to come. They really don't have to worry about keeping that stuff under wraps.
Sure. Here it is.
http://www.x-tables.eu/more/overview.html
Well, it could also be unjustifiable paranoia.
I think more than anything, Apple wants to make sure MS doesn't pull a fast one and changes its visual appearance at the last minute (like they did, if you recall, with XP). Those things are easy to drop in at the last minute, but embarassing to change after releasing (at least until the next major update).
Also, if Apple is attempting something as bold and dramatic as I suspect, they very well simply need more time. Always better to underpromise and overdeliver than vice versa.
Wha? I missed that one.
If if that was the case, though... Apple will be playing catch-up to MS in the Office Suite dept. for a *long* time to come. They really don't have to worry about keeping that stuff under wraps.
iWork, where this will likely end up, is more of an Appleworks replacement.
I've never understood what it is about the brushed metal that some seem to dislike so much.
It's not that I disliked it THAT much -- I think it is ok, but here are the two problems:
1) It is not consitantly used
2) It looks bloated, thick, and heavy.
It's not that I disliked it THAT much -- I think it is ok, but here are the two problems:
1) It is not consitantly used
2) It looks bloated and dark.
Yes, it should have been consistent. But, it never looked dark on any of my monitors. But, then, all of my monitors are calibrated.
Anything that touched resolution independence wasn't discussed. No Finder. Not a word about Safari (which we know from Dave Hyatt's post is being prepared for "high-DPI websites"). Not a word about Spotlight's new UI. All this stuff is *so* obviously in the cards for Leopard it practically hurts.
I agree also. In fact the Leopard Preview on Apple.com shows nothing about Spotlight or iCal. With a redesigned finder I would expect new UI's for other applications.
I agree with that. I just can't figure it. there's nothing there that MS would suddenly feel that they MUST incorporate. They are so far behind already, that all they need, is to try to recode other major areas.
I think its mostly showmanship as you described before. And its pretty annoying to blame it on MS. A little ribbing is funny but its going too far.
Yet, at the same time, Apple releases the beta version of their new spreadsheet.
Is this what you are talking about. I wasn't sure if that was supposed to be Apple or not but it doesn't really say what company it comes from.
http://www.x-tables.eu/more/overview.html
Apple really should sell iWork with every new Mac the way they do iLife. I don't think it really competes with office.
Sure. Here it is.
http://www.x-tables.eu/more/overview.html
But that's not by Apple.
I Want:
consistant look and feel
the ability to turn off spotlight and dashboard for older macs
and the 800LB Gorilla that Apple is ignoring
FIX THE F(antastic) FINDER!!!!
Do that and I will write a check...