Yes, but not for leopard. It requires a paradigm shift away from the desktop metaphor. There should be some cool apps though and some good exploration of 3D UI techniques.
Vinea
That is the big question in my mind... just how far will Apple try to push the envelope in desktop UI with Leopard?
But I agree with you that we will see some exploration of new techniques using CoreAnimation rather than a full-blown paradigm shift into 3d space (which would probably be much too confusing for your average user).
I have to say, if Apple aren't amongst the first to harness the potential UI-candy with core animation I will be pretty disappointed. As mentioned before, this preview seems a lot like Tiger + Leopard, as some "top secret" features are yet to come. It would seem only logical that one of those features is a UI overhaul that makes full use of Core Animation (as surely, one of the main reasons for its conception was for Apple to utilize it to make an even sexier OS).
Not that a UI overhaul is necessary for mac-owners (who have more important reasons for buying a new mac), rather, switchers as Apple are certainly known for purloining market share using flashy design. It would seem only logical that the UI for leopard should blow Vista completely away, making all its visual "enhancements" seem tacky (or more so) in comparison to the offerings on a mac.
...doesn't anyone else think the finder windows feel a little out of place within Time Machine...
Time Machine is what OpenVMS was 20 years ago (and still is). It's what Dirvish and Wayback in Linux are, and what Windows Server 2003 calls Volume Shadow Copy.
While Time Machine can recover different version of files that is not its sole purpose. Time Machine is more about taking transparent snapshots but having the ability to recover files from whatever snapshot is needed without restoring to a point. Windows VSC takes snapshots which allows for individual users to restore in Storage Server 2003 so that's closer. Again no one is stating that Apple is first here but the fact that Apple can go from 0-halfway polished beta in no time flat is impressive. Microsoft has had 6 years to work on VSC.
In fact hold on. I don't believe Windows 2003 Storage Server can restore individual files. I believe you have to use Data Protection Manager for that. Suffice it to say for $129 Time Machine will be worth the price of admission alone if the hard drive requirements are not out of this world.
A 6 Terabyte server running WSS and DPM consumes half the storage for snapshots and RAID set. We'll see.
I have to say, if Apple aren't amongst the first to harness the potential UI-candy with core animation I will be pretty disappointed. As mentioned before, this preview seems a lot like Tiger + Leopard, as some "top secret" features are yet to come. It would seem only logical that one of those features is a UI overhaul that makes full use of Core Animation (as surely, one of the main reasons for its conception was for Apple to utilize it to make an even sexier OS).
Not that a UI overhaul is necessary for mac-owners (who have more important reasons for buying a new mac), rather, switchers as Apple are certainly known for purloining market share using flashy design. It would seem only logical that the UI for leopard should blow Vista completely away, making all its visual "enhancements" seem tacky (or more so) in comparison to the offerings on a mac.
...doesn't anyone else think the finder windows feel a little out of place within Time Machine...
Let's not forget that the first versions of Vista beta used the old XP GUI. It's very possible that Apple does have some changes in mind, but is not showing them as yet.
Just like the "top secret" features, the changes to the GUI are likely too buggy to have been shown. An indicator of that could have been the rare crash that occured during the demo. Hopefully they will be good enough to show during MWSF.
Here's a few things I posted on another forum, I thought it might be worth repeating them here...
Firstly, during the Keynote when the guy used Time Machine to retrieve the presentation file, he called up a preview of that file which opened up (pretty quickly - much quicker than loading it into Keynote proper) in a simple black-framed preview window. That's new - Preview doesn't open Keynote files (at least in Tiger) so it's not using that, so I'm wondering if there's a new file previewing architecture we don't know about yet? That ties in nicely with the fact that we saw nothing about the Finder...
Secondly, there was a Spotlight icon in the dock. That might just be a "home" for the Spotlight Results windows, but it might be something a little more interesting? A little worryingly, there's quite a lot of icons down by the Finder icon now - Dashboard, Time Machine, Spaces, Spotlight. That's quite a bit of dock real estate. Ho hum.
Something not in the Keynote, but a thing I'd like to see as an extension of the Spotlight theme is Smart Labels. If you can associate a label colour to a bunch of metadata, then the Finder can auto-label any matching file. Even better would be if this was implemented as an open API, so any application could query if a piece of data should be labelled.
For instance, you could set up a smart label for a particular client. Automatically, any contacts in your address book who work for the client company get labelled, as well as any emails from them in Mail, and any files you're prepping for the client in the Finder.
I would assume that Leopard's new look will be based on the X logo that they've been using. The reflective black glass is an incidator of what Leopard will look like.
I would assume that Leopard's new look will be based on the X logo that they've been using. The reflective black glass is an incidator of what Leopard will look like.
Your guys' thoughts?
If that were the case we'd have faux fur all over the interface already.
No, I can't see them using black. Whereas teenage Marilyn Manson fans might like it, and it has it's places, it would seriously mess up existing 3rd party apps. They've been using it for floating media palettes and HUDs but that's about it.
Black as a predominate colour causes your iris to close which requires more muscle movement in your eye. It gives you eye strain. White opens up the iris letting more light in and causes less damage.
If that were the case we'd have faux fur all over the interface already.
No, I can't see them using black. Whereas teenage Marilyn Manson fans might like it, and it has it's places, it would seriously mess up existing 3rd party apps. They've been using it for floating media palettes and HUDs but that's about it.
Black as a predominate colour causes your iris to close which requires more muscle movement in your eye. It gives you eye strain. White opens up the iris letting more light in and causes less damage.
I see. But in the past logos like Cheetah--the aqua blue, and Tiger and Panther--the brushed metal--it followed that some visual changes were made and it may be that it is loosely based on the X logo. Obviously faux fur isn't in the works since the past upgrades have made some use of fur in the sneek peek logo. But I still think that the logo's X for leopard is gonna be a clue into how it will look. If not black glass that something similar to it.
I attempted to price the value of Leopards features earlier and I need to make a correction -- the value of this is now $0 because I can do it already -- along with a cool cube interface too on Linux... all I do is type "apt-get install XGL" and then do about 5 minutes of (well documented) configing and presto...instant 3d multidesktop...complete with neat lil'* cube effect!*
Apple is here to take all that "all I do is type "apt-get install XGL" and then do about 5 minutes of (well documented) configing" out of using a computer.
Here's a few things I posted on another forum, I thought it might be worth repeating them here...
Firstly, during the Keynote when the guy used Time Machine to retrieve the presentation file, he called up a preview of that file which opened up (pretty quickly - much quicker than loading it into Keynote proper) in a simple black-framed preview window. That's new - Preview doesn't open Keynote files (at least in Tiger) so it's not using that, so I'm wondering if there's a new file previewing architecture we don't know about yet? That ties in nicely with the fact that we saw nothing about the Finder...
Secondly, there was a Spotlight icon in the dock. That might just be a "home" for the Spotlight Results windows, but it might be something a little more interesting? A little worryingly, there's quite a lot of icons down by the Finder icon now - Dashboard, Time Machine, Spaces, Spotlight. That's quite a bit of dock real estate. Ho hum.
Something not in the Keynote, but a thing I'd like to see as an extension of the Spotlight theme is Smart Labels. If you can associate a label colour to a bunch of metadata, then the Finder can auto-label any matching file. Even better would be if this was implemented as an open API, so any application could query if a piece of data should be labelled.
For instance, you could set up a smart label for a particular client. Automatically, any contacts in your address book who work for the client company get labelled, as well as any emails from them in Mail, and any files you're prepping for the client in the Finder.
That'd be good.
Enough rambling from me...
Neil
a.k.a. Arnel
It could be Quick Look. Spotlight now can preview a bunch of files and even play QT movies without oppening up the app. Maybe that icon was Quick Look open or ready in the doc for just such moments.
Apple is here to take all that "all I do is type "apt-get install XGL" and then do about 5 minutes of (well documented) configing" out of using a computer.
Yep. Spot on.
One of my Windows using colleagues pointed out that 'Time Machine' was the 'same' as 'Previous Versions' in Windows and then showed me how to right click on a shared folder, click the properties tab and restore a previous version of the folder.
I just sat there and thought for a moment.
...
"Yeah, but it's not in a funky 3D starfield with automatic difference finding and not showing you the difference in place in the application you're using"
There's doing something and there's doing something well. Claiming 'Previous Versions' is the same is as sensible as me claiming we've got it already with rsync.
I'm not really impressed with anything that doesn't let me recover just a file. Restoring a snapshot in some cases entails losing any files that haven't been captured in the last snaptshop in some cases I believe.
Replacing a folder is cool but I really like that way Time Machine drills down the to the file. Will a combination of rsnc and snapshots recover down to the file? If so I'll have to become a bit more acquainted with rsync.
Replacing a folder is cool but I really like that way Time Machine drills down the to the file. Will a combination of rsnc and snapshots recover down to the file? If so I'll have to become a bit more acquainted with rsync.
I don't know if rsync can do that, however if it can, it is a convoluted way of doing it, and defiantly not as intuitive or efficient as Time Machine.
You can recover anything from a single file to a whole drive out of a snapshot, simply because the snapshot looks like the entire drive - you can use the Finder or Terminal to grab them like from any other drive.
The problem is that you can't really 'spin back' through time easily, and *that* is the useful task. Instead, you have to access the date *first*, *THEN* drill down to the data. Not the way most people think, and Apple realized that. MS, VMS, and the other Linux solutions... not so much.
A little worryingly, there's quite a lot of icons down by the Finder icon now - Dashboard, Time Machine, Spaces, Spotlight. That's quite a bit of dock real estate. Ho hum.
I don't think we have to worry about this... Just as there was that special app to show off the Voice over reading, I imagine those are just developer versions of those features-running on what is basically a Tiger OS. In other words, what we saw is just the raw app and not how it will integrate into the final product. I think the fact that there was a Spaces icon is especially indicative of this: that's like having an icon for expose. It doesn't make sense. So for people who are worried that the GUI looks just like Tiger, I say the reason for that is that it WAS just Tiger. Those were just demo Apps put together for the keynote, and presumably also for the developer distro.
Comments
Yes, but not for leopard. It requires a paradigm shift away from the desktop metaphor. There should be some cool apps though and some good exploration of 3D UI techniques.
Vinea
That is the big question in my mind... just how far will Apple try to push the envelope in desktop UI with Leopard?
But I agree with you that we will see some exploration of new techniques using CoreAnimation rather than a full-blown paradigm shift into 3d space (which would probably be much too confusing for your average user).
Not that a UI overhaul is necessary for mac-owners (who have more important reasons for buying a new mac), rather, switchers as Apple are certainly known for purloining market share using flashy design. It would seem only logical that the UI for leopard should blow Vista completely away, making all its visual "enhancements" seem tacky (or more so) in comparison to the offerings on a mac.
...doesn't anyone else think the finder windows feel a little out of place within Time Machine...
Time Machine is what OpenVMS was 20 years ago (and still is). It's what Dirvish and Wayback in Linux are, and what Windows Server 2003 calls Volume Shadow Copy.
While Time Machine can recover different version of files that is not its sole purpose. Time Machine is more about taking transparent snapshots but having the ability to recover files from whatever snapshot is needed without restoring to a point. Windows VSC takes snapshots which allows for individual users to restore in Storage Server 2003 so that's closer. Again no one is stating that Apple is first here but the fact that Apple can go from 0-halfway polished beta in no time flat is impressive. Microsoft has had 6 years to work on VSC.
In fact hold on. I don't believe Windows 2003 Storage Server can restore individual files. I believe you have to use Data Protection Manager for that. Suffice it to say for $129 Time Machine will be worth the price of admission alone if the hard drive requirements are not out of this world.
A 6 Terabyte server running WSS and DPM consumes half the storage for snapshots and RAID set. We'll see.
I have to say, if Apple aren't amongst the first to harness the potential UI-candy with core animation I will be pretty disappointed. As mentioned before, this preview seems a lot like Tiger + Leopard, as some "top secret" features are yet to come. It would seem only logical that one of those features is a UI overhaul that makes full use of Core Animation (as surely, one of the main reasons for its conception was for Apple to utilize it to make an even sexier OS).
Not that a UI overhaul is necessary for mac-owners (who have more important reasons for buying a new mac), rather, switchers as Apple are certainly known for purloining market share using flashy design. It would seem only logical that the UI for leopard should blow Vista completely away, making all its visual "enhancements" seem tacky (or more so) in comparison to the offerings on a mac.
...doesn't anyone else think the finder windows feel a little out of place within Time Machine...
Let's not forget that the first versions of Vista beta used the old XP GUI. It's very possible that Apple does have some changes in mind, but is not showing them as yet.
Just like the "top secret" features, the changes to the GUI are likely too buggy to have been shown. An indicator of that could have been the rare crash that occured during the demo. Hopefully they will be good enough to show during MWSF.
This article I think most will appreciate. It starts with the machines, and then goes to a good breakdown of the software.
His insights are very interesting. The article is 5 pages.
I'm thinking of posting it to the hardware article forum as well.
http://www.computerworld.com/action/...icleId=9002267
A UI overhaul as a SUPRISE!!! feature would be easy to do seeing as it requires little beta testing and would have few bugs.
That's not actually true... GUI bugs are the hardest to find. Everything else can be unit tested.
Firstly, during the Keynote when the guy used Time Machine to retrieve the presentation file, he called up a preview of that file which opened up (pretty quickly - much quicker than loading it into Keynote proper) in a simple black-framed preview window. That's new - Preview doesn't open Keynote files (at least in Tiger) so it's not using that, so I'm wondering if there's a new file previewing architecture we don't know about yet? That ties in nicely with the fact that we saw nothing about the Finder...
Secondly, there was a Spotlight icon in the dock. That might just be a "home" for the Spotlight Results windows, but it might be something a little more interesting? A little worryingly, there's quite a lot of icons down by the Finder icon now - Dashboard, Time Machine, Spaces, Spotlight. That's quite a bit of dock real estate. Ho hum.
Something not in the Keynote, but a thing I'd like to see as an extension of the Spotlight theme is Smart Labels. If you can associate a label colour to a bunch of metadata, then the Finder can auto-label any matching file. Even better would be if this was implemented as an open API, so any application could query if a piece of data should be labelled.
For instance, you could set up a smart label for a particular client. Automatically, any contacts in your address book who work for the client company get labelled, as well as any emails from them in Mail, and any files you're prepping for the client in the Finder.
That'd be good.
Enough rambling from me...
Neil
a.k.a. Arnel
Your guys' thoughts?
I would assume that Leopard's new look will be based on the X logo that they've been using. The reflective black glass is an incidator of what Leopard will look like.
Your guys' thoughts?
If that were the case we'd have faux fur all over the interface already.
No, I can't see them using black. Whereas teenage Marilyn Manson fans might like it, and it has it's places, it would seriously mess up existing 3rd party apps. They've been using it for floating media palettes and HUDs but that's about it.
Black as a predominate colour causes your iris to close which requires more muscle movement in your eye. It gives you eye strain. White opens up the iris letting more light in and causes less damage.
If that were the case we'd have faux fur all over the interface already.
No, I can't see them using black. Whereas teenage Marilyn Manson fans might like it, and it has it's places, it would seriously mess up existing 3rd party apps. They've been using it for floating media palettes and HUDs but that's about it.
Black as a predominate colour causes your iris to close which requires more muscle movement in your eye. It gives you eye strain. White opens up the iris letting more light in and causes less damage.
I see. But in the past logos like Cheetah--the aqua blue, and Tiger and Panther--the brushed metal--it followed that some visual changes were made and it may be that it is loosely based on the X logo. Obviously faux fur isn't in the works since the past upgrades have made some use of fur in the sneek peek logo. But I still think that the logo's X for leopard is gonna be a clue into how it will look. If not black glass that something similar to it.
I attempted to price the value of Leopards features earlier and I need to make a correction -- the value of this is now $0 because I can do it already -- along with a cool cube interface too on Linux... all I do is type "apt-get install XGL" and then do about 5 minutes of (well documented) configing and presto...instant 3d multidesktop...complete with neat lil'* cube effect!*
And it is OPEN SOURCE!
info at: http://en.opensuse.org/Xgl
Apple is here to take all that "all I do is type "apt-get install XGL" and then do about 5 minutes of (well documented) configing" out of using a computer.
Here's a few things I posted on another forum, I thought it might be worth repeating them here...
Firstly, during the Keynote when the guy used Time Machine to retrieve the presentation file, he called up a preview of that file which opened up (pretty quickly - much quicker than loading it into Keynote proper) in a simple black-framed preview window. That's new - Preview doesn't open Keynote files (at least in Tiger) so it's not using that, so I'm wondering if there's a new file previewing architecture we don't know about yet? That ties in nicely with the fact that we saw nothing about the Finder...
Secondly, there was a Spotlight icon in the dock. That might just be a "home" for the Spotlight Results windows, but it might be something a little more interesting? A little worryingly, there's quite a lot of icons down by the Finder icon now - Dashboard, Time Machine, Spaces, Spotlight. That's quite a bit of dock real estate. Ho hum.
Something not in the Keynote, but a thing I'd like to see as an extension of the Spotlight theme is Smart Labels. If you can associate a label colour to a bunch of metadata, then the Finder can auto-label any matching file. Even better would be if this was implemented as an open API, so any application could query if a piece of data should be labelled.
For instance, you could set up a smart label for a particular client. Automatically, any contacts in your address book who work for the client company get labelled, as well as any emails from them in Mail, and any files you're prepping for the client in the Finder.
That'd be good.
Enough rambling from me...
Neil
a.k.a. Arnel
It could be Quick Look. Spotlight now can preview a bunch of files and even play QT movies without oppening up the app. Maybe that icon was Quick Look open or ready in the doc for just such moments.
Apple is here to take all that "all I do is type "apt-get install XGL" and then do about 5 minutes of (well documented) configing" out of using a computer.
Yep. Spot on.
One of my Windows using colleagues pointed out that 'Time Machine' was the 'same' as 'Previous Versions' in Windows and then showed me how to right click on a shared folder, click the properties tab and restore a previous version of the folder.
I just sat there and thought for a moment.
...
"Yeah, but it's not in a funky 3D starfield with automatic difference finding and not showing you the difference in place in the application you're using"
There's doing something and there's doing something well. Claiming 'Previous Versions' is the same is as sensible as me claiming we've got it already with rsync.
But it's a pain to use. I can't wait for this to come down the pipe.
Replacing a folder is cool but I really like that way Time Machine drills down the to the file. Will a combination of rsnc and snapshots recover down to the file? If so I'll have to become a bit more acquainted with rsync.
Replacing a folder is cool but I really like that way Time Machine drills down the to the file. Will a combination of rsnc and snapshots recover down to the file? If so I'll have to become a bit more acquainted with rsync.
I don't know if rsync can do that, however if it can, it is a convoluted way of doing it, and defiantly not as intuitive or efficient as Time Machine.
The problem is that you can't really 'spin back' through time easily, and *that* is the useful task. Instead, you have to access the date *first*, *THEN* drill down to the data. Not the way most people think, and Apple realized that. MS, VMS, and the other Linux solutions... not so much.
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2000480,00.asp
Almost forgot to add this about X Code 3.0
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2000674,00.asp
A little worryingly, there's quite a lot of icons down by the Finder icon now - Dashboard, Time Machine, Spaces, Spotlight. That's quite a bit of dock real estate. Ho hum.
I don't think we have to worry about this... Just as there was that special app to show off the Voice over reading, I imagine those are just developer versions of those features-running on what is basically a Tiger OS. In other words, what we saw is just the raw app and not how it will integrate into the final product. I think the fact that there was a Spaces icon is especially indicative of this: that's like having an icon for expose. It doesn't make sense. So for people who are worried that the GUI looks just like Tiger, I say the reason for that is that it WAS just Tiger. Those were just demo Apps put together for the keynote, and presumably also for the developer distro.