Whatever helps you sleep at night, trying to ignore the Blu-ray sales domination, despite your fallacy of price trumps all.
Speaking of price trumping all, hmm, I wonder why total sales look like this...
That's called getting owned...no matter how you try and spin it and conjure up fallacies of price, Blu-ray is winning this war handily, and will continue to do so with the majority backing of the industry.
^^^Take notice how 16 out of the 20 are all Blu-ray. Look ma, Blu-rayers do in fact buy movies.
Ok let me explain the dialectic and how it matters. The original argument was that consumers don't want brands that are "junk" (your comments) Marzetta7 then came in and said
I then linked to a one of many sites that how that Vizio , a company that no one knew about 5 years ago, was the number 1 LCD TV supplier in Q2 of this year. This seems to refute at the least Marzetta7's comments. Vizio isn't "junk" but it certainly isn't going to match a Sony Bravia or Panasonic LCD. However the "take home point" here is that price is indeed more of a factor than name brand which is why we have Wal*Mart, Target and Costco. Enthusiasts buy product from the old hegemony but Joe 6-Pack is fine with the Olevia or Vizio TV as the numbers back this up.
Just a bit of tripe rendering for you.
The "take home point" is as follows, if you saw a bag of potato chips in the store at 1 cent and bought them, but when you ate them they tasted like vomit, would you buy them again?
it so happened that that particular week they were also the best selling item in the store.
-
I might take more notice of your point if they are the top seller next quarter.
Also, $149-$199 isn't a terrible cost to become neutral supporter of the format. With Paramount supporting HD-DVD exclusively, there are now more HD-DVD exclusive titles than for Blu-Ray. I remember someone saying something about content being everything not so long ago.
Good point RE $149 that would be £70 over here, but will that include the 8 free discs that Tosh is offering? I doubt it.
I think you made a vague challange to me about going neutral a few posts back so I have been thinking it over, what would it mean to me? sort of thing.
But with the cheapest HD-DVD players from tosh costing £250 here thats $500!! its just not going to happen.
A £70 player might be appealing as my first stand alone DVD was £70, so I have been considering that sort of price point as being a necessary criteria. However I also need two more things.
HD-DVD to look like it's going to be around for the long term ie 4-5 years from now and,
Increased studio support ie all studios to go neutral (Sony would be the exception, but IF they eventually went neutral then HD-DVD would be assured of staying so..)
I don't see either of these two things happening any time soon, but I will continue to re-evaluate.
There is one concern though, ultimately I want ONE format ONLY, so if thats what I want, why should I fund Paramount and Universal and Tosh. by buying a player and continuing the war? seems like a counterintuitive move for me to make at this time.
{sorry, did a typo on paramount went and corrected it, and all I could think of was reading Parawhore from earlier in the thread}
While weekly and Y-T-D sales figures are interesting, It's going to be especially noteworthy seeing this year's October, November and December ones to see if B-D continues its almost 70% to 30% lead or if HD-DVD can cut B-D's lead to say 55% to 45%. The last quarter figures may have some significant ramifications for some studios.
Good point RE $149 that would be £70 over here, but will that include the 8 free discs that Tosh is offering? I doubt it.
I think you made a vague challange to me about going neutral a few posts back so I have been thinking it over, what would it mean to me? sort of thing.
But with the cheapest HD-DVD players from tosh costing £250 here thats $500!! its just not going to happen.
A £70 player might be appealing as my first stand alone DVD was £70, so I have been considering that sort of price point as being a necessary criteria. However I also need two more things.
HD-DVD to look like it's going to be around for the long term ie 4-5 years from now and,
Increased studio support ie all studios to go neutral (Sony would be the exception, but IF they eventually went neutral then HD-DVD would be assured of staying so..)
I don't see either of these two things happening any time soon, but I will continue to re-evaluate.
There is one concern though, ultimately I want ONE format ONLY, so if thats what I want, why should I fund Paramount and Universal and Tosh. by buying a player and continuing the war? seems like a counterintuitive move for me to make at this time.
{sorry, did a typo on paramount went and corrected it, and all I could think of was reading Parawhore from earlier in the thread}
Not sure whether Toshiba will continue their free movie rebate promo until end of the year. Currently, $179 Xbox360 HD-DVD add on is included in the promo and I don't see why a slightly cheaper Venturer HD-DVD player would not be included, as long as promo does not expire.
I agree that supporting opposing format of a choice may seem as temporarily counterintuitive action, but this is what early adopters do..... take risks for self fulfillment. As I've said before, I will eventually have a Blu-Ray player at home, with right entry price. I'm still waiting for a cheap combo rom drive for my HTPC, just to be ready for long haul HiDef format war??.. which is most likely the direction it?s headed.
In regards to your question about HDi with Venturer HD-DVD player, I would assume it's fully capable to finalized HD-DVD specs, if the hardware was approved to get the HD-DVD logo on the unit. One of the article shows that the unit will come with ethernet and TrueHD audio decoding capability.
Good point RE $149 that would be £70 over here, but will that include the 8 free discs that Tosh is offering? I doubt it.
I think you made a vague challange to me about going neutral a few posts back so I have been thinking it over, what would it mean to me? sort of thing.
But with the cheapest HD-DVD players from tosh costing £250 here thats $500!! its just not going to happen.
A £70 player might be appealing as my first stand alone DVD was £70, so I have been considering that sort of price point as being a necessary criteria. However I also need two more things.
The problem is that the $149 player won't be £70 or ?110.
Not sure whether Toshiba will continue their free movie rebate promo until end of the year. Currently, $179 Xbox360 HD-DVD add on is included in the promo and I don't see why a slightly cheaper Venturer HD-DVD player would not be included, as long as promo does not expire.
I agree that supporting opposing format of a choice may seem as temporarily counterintuitive action, but this is what early adopters do..... take risks for self fulfillment. As I've said before, I will eventually have a Blu-Ray player at home, with right entry price. I'm still waiting for a cheap combo rom drive for my HTPC, just to be ready for long haul HiDef format war??.. which is most likely the direction it?s headed.
In regards to your question about HDi with Venturer HD-DVD player, I would assume it's fully capable to finalized HD-DVD specs, if the hardware was approved to get the HD-DVD logo on the unit. One of the article shows that the unit will come with ethernet and TrueHD audio decoding capability.
Well then I musn't be an early adopter, as I want to look towards the long term future of whatever format I buy into, if ONE SINGLE format is my preferred way then I can wait for that to arrive, I believe with current info that it will be BD.
It's an interesting thing that SD-DVD is "good enough" it affords me the ability to wait, hell come to that the digital SD OTA broadcasts are "good enough" not ideal but good enough for FREE, and I can put those on my Apple TV which is also "good enough"
Of course Hi-def has been a real treat (an "eye opener" if you will ), I've now made myself a little list of films I plan on getting over the next while.
The problem is that the $149 player won't be £70 or ?110.
I don't expect it to be at all (sorry I didn't include that in my post) but that would be the point at which I would have to at least "consider" buying it was an option. Although on reflection If its a Veturer brand, I doubt it would be bought by me, they are the tech equivalent of a 1 cent vomit inducing packet of crisps.
But if a Tosh player or other were to be that price then its a stronger possibility than it was.
^^^Take notice how 16 out of the 20 are all Blu-ray. Look ma, Blu-rayers do in fact buy movies.
and how!
A little bit of math on those figures
The TOTAL sales for HD-DVD in the top 20 (4 films) is 202,500
but the TOTAL sales for ONLY the top 3 Blu-ray films (3 films) is 314,500
So the top 3 BD films are out selling the top 4 HD-DVD films easily. Rather telling when you consider that The departed and Casino Royal have been out so long, 300 on BD is almost selling twice as many as HD-DVD.
One question though if there is in the region of 300,000 to 400,000 HD-DVD players haven't all those people bought Planet Earth already, why is it still able to sell 50,000 odd copies? I can understand it with BD as there are millions of potential purchasers, but not so many left on the HD-DVD side.
anyone got sales figurse for it going back to its release? interesting to tally it up.
Don't you find it rather pointless in debating over and over again, why HD-DVD is selling less than Blue-Disk? I think nobody ever disputed that. What we really want to know is which standard is ultimately going to be the dominant standard. Making predictions for the future from past data is just that: making predictions, not very dependable ones at that.
Had the Smart's (the car) future performance been predicted by its initial sales (very poor), they'd have closed the plant long ago. Nowadays these little cars are quite popular, at least in Europe. Nobody would have predicted that based on initial sales data. So please, get along and stop making pointless assumptions based on either side of selective perception/data.
I don't expect it to be at all (sorry I didn't include that in my post) but that would be the point at which I would have to at least "consider" buying it was an option. Although on reflection If its a Veturer brand, I doubt it would be bought by me, they are the tech equivalent of a 1 cent vomit inducing packet of crisps.
But if a Tosh player or other were to be that price then its a stronger possibility than it was.
One question though if there is in the region of 300,000 to 400,000 HD-DVD players haven't all those people bought Planet Earth already, why is it still able to sell 50,000 odd copies?
The numbers are Year To Date (Aug 5) which means that PE on HD DVD has only sold around 50,000 in total.
Don't you find it rather pointless in debating over and over again, why HD-DVD is selling less than Blue-Disk? I think nobody ever disputed that. What we really want to know is which standard is ultimately going to be the dominant standard. Making predictions for the future from past data is just that: making predictions, not very dependable ones at that.
The fact remains that past sales are and will always be a useful metric. Maybe you'd like to argue that despite VHS outselling Beta for many years, you could never count Beta out. Or that even though Windows PCs have outsold Macs for decades, that's no guarantee that the Mac won't surge into the lead.
Quote:
Had the Smart's (the car) future performance been predicted by its initial sales (very poor), they'd have closed the plant long ago. Nowadays these little cars are quite popular, at least in Europe. Nobody would have predicted that based on initial sales data.
Right. Quite popular? They lost $5.2 billion between 2003 and 2006, not exactly ancient history. They're only still in the game because Dr. Z, Daimler's chairman, liquidated the company and brought it under the Mercedes umbrella.
Which again, nobody would have predicted. Point being, predictions are always unreliable and as such, quite useless.
Back in 1997 when Apple's shares were dow to 13$, a lot of people predicted the end of the company.
Today shares are hovering around 150$, after a 1:2 share split. That's comparable to 300$ in 1997. Or roughly 2200% performance in 10 years. Had you predicted that in 1997, everyone would have suggested a vacation in an asylum.
And what makes you so certain HD-DVD and Blue-Ray will always rule each other out in the future? Imagine a combo player, at a reasonable price and co-existance of both formats, just like VCD and DVD, or LPs and SPs. I could predict that HD-DVD and Blue-Ray will both succumb to a third following standard. And that is likely an even more accurate prediction than either HD-DVD or BR going out of this "war" as a winner. That said, I wonder why everyone calls this a war, instead of simply calling it competition. We're capitalists, we should have gotten used to it by now, right?
The whole point of this thread is to predict what format will be in Macs. People are using stats to base their assumptions on which format will win. If no one was doing this or bantering back and forth, there would be no thread.
The numbers are Year To Date (Aug 5) which means that PE on HD DVD has only sold around 50,000 in total.
Doh! thanks for pointing that out I missed it. Explains a lot though.
Amazing to think that Murch was pushing this as the top RANKED HD-DVD on amazon and that anyone with an eye towards BD should cower at its might. yeah rankings mean diddly.
Which again, nobody would have predicted. Point being, predictions are always unreliable and as such, quite useless.
Back in 1997 when Apple's shares were dow to 13$, a lot of people predicted the end of the company.
Today shares are hovering around 150$, after a 1:2 share split. That's comparable to 300$ in 1997. Or roughly 2200% performance in 10 years. Had you predicted that in 1997, everyone would have suggested a vacation in an asylum.
And what makes you so certain HD-DVD and Blue-Ray will always rule each other out in the future? Imagine a combo player, at a reasonable price and co-existance of both formats, just like VCD and DVD, or LPs and SPs. I could predict that HD-DVD and Blue-Ray will both succumb to a third following standard. And that is likely an even more accurate prediction than either HD-DVD or BR going out of this "war" as a winner. That said, I wonder why everyone calls this a war, instead of simply calling it competition. We're capitalists, we should have gotten used to it by now, right?
Look its simple, if you don't like the thread, don't read it and really don't post in it, if its gonna give you indigestion.
m'KAAY.
If you are a capitalist then don't judge the rest of us as one.
If you "predict" that their will be another format then where is your supporting evidence for this? or is that an idea you pulled from some dark void? but OH!! if you had supporting evidence that would constitute "Making predictions for the future from past data is just that: making predictions, not very dependable ones at that."
Most of the Data the posters on this thread post is CURRENT, we may then debate its accuracy, but thats what the thread is for. DEBATE.
Comments
Whatever helps you sleep at night, trying to ignore the Blu-ray sales domination, despite your fallacy of price trumps all.
Speaking of price trumping all, hmm, I wonder why total sales look like this...
That's called getting owned...no matter how you try and spin it and conjure up fallacies of price, Blu-ray is winning this war handily, and will continue to do so with the majority backing of the industry.
^^^Take notice how 16 out of the 20 are all Blu-ray. Look ma, Blu-rayers do in fact buy movies.
Venturer is Canadian. Do not make us angry. You won't like us when we're angry.
I am Canadian, I am not making myself angry.
Ok let me explain the dialectic and how it matters. The original argument was that consumers don't want brands that are "junk" (your comments) Marzetta7 then came in and said
I then linked to a one of many sites that how that Vizio , a company that no one knew about 5 years ago, was the number 1 LCD TV supplier in Q2 of this year. This seems to refute at the least Marzetta7's comments. Vizio isn't "junk" but it certainly isn't going to match a Sony Bravia or Panasonic LCD. However the "take home point" here is that price is indeed more of a factor than name brand which is why we have Wal*Mart, Target and Costco. Enthusiasts buy product from the old hegemony but Joe 6-Pack is fine with the Olevia or Vizio TV as the numbers back this up.
Just a bit of tripe rendering for you.
The "take home point" is as follows, if you saw a bag of potato chips in the store at 1 cent and bought them, but when you ate them they tasted like vomit, would you buy them again?
it so happened that that particular week they were also the best selling item in the store.
-
I might take more notice of your point if they are the top seller next quarter.
-
and does the Venturer do HDi ??
Also, $149-$199 isn't a terrible cost to become neutral supporter of the format. With Paramount supporting HD-DVD exclusively, there are now more HD-DVD exclusive titles than for Blu-Ray. I remember someone saying something about content being everything not so long ago.
Good point RE $149 that would be £70 over here, but will that include the 8 free discs that Tosh is offering? I doubt it.
I think you made a vague challange to me about going neutral a few posts back so I have been thinking it over, what would it mean to me? sort of thing.
But with the cheapest HD-DVD players from tosh costing £250 here thats $500!! its just not going to happen.
A £70 player might be appealing as my first stand alone DVD was £70, so I have been considering that sort of price point as being a necessary criteria. However I also need two more things.
HD-DVD to look like it's going to be around for the long term ie 4-5 years from now and,
Increased studio support ie all studios to go neutral (Sony would be the exception, but IF they eventually went neutral then HD-DVD would be assured of staying so..)
I don't see either of these two things happening any time soon, but I will continue to re-evaluate.
There is one concern though, ultimately I want ONE format ONLY, so if thats what I want, why should I fund Paramount and Universal and Tosh. by buying a player and continuing the war? seems like a counterintuitive move for me to make at this time.
{sorry, did a typo on paramount
Good point RE $149 that would be £70 over here, but will that include the 8 free discs that Tosh is offering? I doubt it.
I think you made a vague challange to me about going neutral a few posts back so I have been thinking it over, what would it mean to me? sort of thing.
But with the cheapest HD-DVD players from tosh costing £250 here thats $500!! its just not going to happen.
A £70 player might be appealing as my first stand alone DVD was £70, so I have been considering that sort of price point as being a necessary criteria. However I also need two more things.
HD-DVD to look like it's going to be around for the long term ie 4-5 years from now and,
Increased studio support ie all studios to go neutral (Sony would be the exception, but IF they eventually went neutral then HD-DVD would be assured of staying so..)
I don't see either of these two things happening any time soon, but I will continue to re-evaluate.
There is one concern though, ultimately I want ONE format ONLY, so if thats what I want, why should I fund Paramount and Universal and Tosh. by buying a player and continuing the war? seems like a counterintuitive move for me to make at this time.
{sorry, did a typo on paramount
Not sure whether Toshiba will continue their free movie rebate promo until end of the year. Currently, $179 Xbox360 HD-DVD add on is included in the promo and I don't see why a slightly cheaper Venturer HD-DVD player would not be included, as long as promo does not expire.
I agree that supporting opposing format of a choice may seem as temporarily counterintuitive action, but this is what early adopters do..... take risks for self fulfillment. As I've said before, I will eventually have a Blu-Ray player at home, with right entry price. I'm still waiting for a cheap combo rom drive for my HTPC, just to be ready for long haul HiDef format war??.. which is most likely the direction it?s headed.
In regards to your question about HDi with Venturer HD-DVD player, I would assume it's fully capable to finalized HD-DVD specs, if the hardware was approved to get the HD-DVD logo on the unit. One of the article shows that the unit will come with ethernet and TrueHD audio decoding capability.
With Paramount supporting HD-DVD exclusively, there are now more HD-DVD exclusive titles than for Blu-Ray.
Uhm, no.
^^^Take notice how 16 out of the 20 are all Blu-ray. Look ma, Blu-rayers do in fact buy movies.
And not one is from Universal (or Paramount).
Good point RE $149 that would be £70 over here, but will that include the 8 free discs that Tosh is offering? I doubt it.
I think you made a vague challange to me about going neutral a few posts back so I have been thinking it over, what would it mean to me? sort of thing.
But with the cheapest HD-DVD players from tosh costing £250 here thats $500!! its just not going to happen.
A £70 player might be appealing as my first stand alone DVD was £70, so I have been considering that sort of price point as being a necessary criteria. However I also need two more things.
The problem is that the $149 player won't be £70 or ?110.
Not sure whether Toshiba will continue their free movie rebate promo until end of the year. Currently, $179 Xbox360 HD-DVD add on is included in the promo and I don't see why a slightly cheaper Venturer HD-DVD player would not be included, as long as promo does not expire.
I agree that supporting opposing format of a choice may seem as temporarily counterintuitive action, but this is what early adopters do..... take risks for self fulfillment. As I've said before, I will eventually have a Blu-Ray player at home, with right entry price. I'm still waiting for a cheap combo rom drive for my HTPC, just to be ready for long haul HiDef format war??.. which is most likely the direction it?s headed.
In regards to your question about HDi with Venturer HD-DVD player, I would assume it's fully capable to finalized HD-DVD specs, if the hardware was approved to get the HD-DVD logo on the unit. One of the article shows that the unit will come with ethernet and TrueHD audio decoding capability.
Well then I musn't be an early adopter, as I want to look towards the long term future of whatever format I buy into, if ONE SINGLE format is my preferred way then I can wait for that to arrive, I believe with current info that it will be BD.
It's an interesting thing that SD-DVD is "good enough" it affords me the ability to wait, hell come to that the digital SD OTA broadcasts are "good enough" not ideal but good enough for FREE, and I can put those on my Apple TV which is also "good enough"
Of course Hi-def has been a real treat (an "eye opener" if you will
The problem is that the $149 player won't be £70 or ?110.
I don't expect it to be at all (sorry I didn't include that in my post) but that would be the point at which I would have to at least "consider" buying it was an option. Although on reflection If its a Veturer brand, I doubt it would be bought by me, they are the tech equivalent of a 1 cent vomit inducing packet of crisps.
But if a Tosh player or other were to be that price then its a stronger possibility than it was.
^^^Take notice how 16 out of the 20 are all Blu-ray. Look ma, Blu-rayers do in fact buy movies.
and how!
A little bit of math on those figures
The TOTAL sales for HD-DVD in the top 20 (4 films) is 202,500
but the TOTAL sales for ONLY the top 3 Blu-ray films (3 films) is 314,500
So the top 3 BD films are out selling the top 4 HD-DVD films easily. Rather telling when you consider that The departed and Casino Royal have been out so long, 300 on BD is almost selling twice as many as HD-DVD.
One question though if there is in the region of 300,000 to 400,000 HD-DVD players haven't all those people bought Planet Earth already, why is it still able to sell 50,000 odd copies? I can understand it with BD as there are millions of potential purchasers, but not so many left on the HD-DVD side.
anyone got sales figurse for it going back to its release? interesting to tally it up.
Had the Smart's (the car) future performance been predicted by its initial sales (very poor), they'd have closed the plant long ago. Nowadays these little cars are quite popular, at least in Europe. Nobody would have predicted that based on initial sales data. So please, get along and stop making pointless assumptions based on either side of selective perception/data.
I don't expect it to be at all (sorry I didn't include that in my post) but that would be the point at which I would have to at least "consider" buying it was an option. Although on reflection If its a Veturer brand, I doubt it would be bought by me, they are the tech equivalent of a 1 cent vomit inducing packet of crisps.
But if a Tosh player or other were to be that price then its a stronger possibility than it was.
Btw. it was announced at €299
One question though if there is in the region of 300,000 to 400,000 HD-DVD players haven't all those people bought Planet Earth already, why is it still able to sell 50,000 odd copies?
The numbers are Year To Date (Aug 5) which means that PE on HD DVD has only sold around 50,000 in total.
Don't you find it rather pointless in debating over and over again, why HD-DVD is selling less than Blue-Disk? I think nobody ever disputed that. What we really want to know is which standard is ultimately going to be the dominant standard. Making predictions for the future from past data is just that: making predictions, not very dependable ones at that.
The fact remains that past sales are and will always be a useful metric. Maybe you'd like to argue that despite VHS outselling Beta for many years, you could never count Beta out. Or that even though Windows PCs have outsold Macs for decades, that's no guarantee that the Mac won't surge into the lead.
Had the Smart's (the car) future performance been predicted by its initial sales (very poor), they'd have closed the plant long ago. Nowadays these little cars are quite popular, at least in Europe. Nobody would have predicted that based on initial sales data.
Right. Quite popular? They lost $5.2 billion between 2003 and 2006, not exactly ancient history. They're only still in the game because Dr. Z, Daimler's chairman, liquidated the company and brought it under the Mercedes umbrella.
Back in 1997 when Apple's shares were dow to 13$, a lot of people predicted the end of the company.
Today shares are hovering around 150$, after a 1:2 share split. That's comparable to 300$ in 1997. Or roughly 2200% performance in 10 years. Had you predicted that in 1997, everyone would have suggested a vacation in an asylum.
And what makes you so certain HD-DVD and Blue-Ray will always rule each other out in the future? Imagine a combo player, at a reasonable price and co-existance of both formats, just like VCD and DVD, or LPs and SPs. I could predict that HD-DVD and Blue-Ray will both succumb to a third following standard. And that is likely an even more accurate prediction than either HD-DVD or BR going out of this "war" as a winner. That said, I wonder why everyone calls this a war, instead of simply calling it competition. We're capitalists, we should have gotten used to it by now, right?
The numbers are Year To Date (Aug 5) which means that PE on HD DVD has only sold around 50,000 in total.
Doh! thanks for pointing that out
Amazing to think that Murch was pushing this as the top RANKED HD-DVD on amazon and that anyone with an eye towards BD should cower at its might. yeah rankings mean diddly.
Which again, nobody would have predicted. Point being, predictions are always unreliable and as such, quite useless.
Back in 1997 when Apple's shares were dow to 13$, a lot of people predicted the end of the company.
Today shares are hovering around 150$, after a 1:2 share split. That's comparable to 300$ in 1997. Or roughly 2200% performance in 10 years. Had you predicted that in 1997, everyone would have suggested a vacation in an asylum.
And what makes you so certain HD-DVD and Blue-Ray will always rule each other out in the future? Imagine a combo player, at a reasonable price and co-existance of both formats, just like VCD and DVD, or LPs and SPs. I could predict that HD-DVD and Blue-Ray will both succumb to a third following standard. And that is likely an even more accurate prediction than either HD-DVD or BR going out of this "war" as a winner. That said, I wonder why everyone calls this a war, instead of simply calling it competition. We're capitalists, we should have gotten used to it by now, right?
Look its simple, if you don't like the thread, don't read it and really don't post in it, if its gonna give you indigestion.
m'KAAY.
If you are a capitalist then don't judge the rest of us as one.
If you "predict" that their will be another format then where is your supporting evidence for this? or is that an idea you pulled from some dark void? but OH!! if you had supporting evidence that would constitute "Making predictions for the future from past data is just that: making predictions, not very dependable ones at that."
Most of the Data the posters on this thread post is CURRENT, we may then debate its accuracy, but thats what the thread is for. DEBATE.