Mark my words: Both formats will go the way of DivX because their DRM is just as repressive. History has shown that consumers always reject ononerous DRM schemes, even when it appears they have little choice in the matter.
I'm with you, JC !
They can take their shiny product offerings straight to the bin of unwanted tech ... (imo only, of course :P)
I'm absolutely sure that this has been mentioned before BUT I'll say it again - put all the frick'n formats on 1 disc so that any machine will play it. DVD version, BD, HD DVD versions > everyone wins.
In my opinion Blu Ray is gonna win because not only does it have the backing of Sony, Dell (hell) and apple, its featured in a 600 dollar console(half the price of standalong BD players), and just the sheer amount of memory it can hold.
now, this dosent mean its going to be a massive blow out by blu ray. Look at the hinders its recieved. The ps3 got off to an extremly slow start. Only selling 500,000+ consoles in 3 months. Also the price of the disks, and the lack of good titles, sure it has the backing of hundreds of companys, but the format is lacking good titles. Also HD dvd is hella cheaper, and would apeal more to people because it does have the trusted DVD name in it.
But HD DVD does have its flaws. It has 19gb of storage, but there only so far being used on movies. There arent any games coming out that are on hd dvd. Also there arent hd dvd drives for you computer like blu ray. While there is that external one that M$ has for there awesome 360. But its pretty tricky to use on your desktop
Allow me to correct a couple glaring errors here.
Apple is neutral and already sells a program (DVD Studio Pro) that authors rudimentary HD DVD discs in MPEG2 and AVC codec.
HD DVD supports 15GB single layer discs and 30GB Dual Layer discs.
ok, for the heck of it... how DO we decide what WINNING means? what are the criteria?
does Apple actually have to ship ONLY ONE format? would that be a decider? gonna be a big "fight" on here if they offer BTO options for bother drive types
also.. mayhap as Vinea pointed out, the REAL "enemy" is (SD)DVD in this "war", so should we talk about just "HD Disc" sales V DVD sales? or is that another thead altogether
ok, for the heck of it... how DO we decide what WINNING means? what are the criteria?
does Apple actually have to ship ONLY ONE format? would that be a decider? gonna be a big "fight" on here if they offer BTO options for bother drive types
also.. mayhap as Vinea pointed out, the REAL "enemy" is (SD)DVD in this "war", so should we talk about just "HD Disc" sales V DVD sales? or is that another thead altogether
Heh..."winning" is in 2010 the Wikipedia entry that lists one as the loser and one as the winner in the format war. Of course like all "wars" there are often more than 50% losers...so there may be two losers and no winners...
Just because they allow for HD DVD creation in an app that have to support every format available, it doesn't mean that they are neutral.
I absolutely don't think we'll ever see a Mac with an HD DVD drive in it.
Please elaborate. Apple has made it clear on numerous occasions that they support both formats.
Trendannoyer- I think we're going to have a stalemate so "winning" is going to be somewhat hard to discern IMO. I think Apple will offer BTO BD and HD DVD drives until there is a clear front runner.
Heh..."winning" is in 2010 the Wikipedia entry that lists one as the loser and one as the winner in the format war. Of course like all "wars" there are often more than 50% losers...so there may be two losers and no winners...
Vinea
This doesn't sound too pessimistic. If I can leach off either/both format for about 4+ years, I'd say that's pretty good. I'd hope there will be another more advanced format introduced around that time. Of course, this is a view from an enthusiast, but lost is a lost in the view point of the format war.
Trendannoyer- I think we're going to have a stalemate so "winning" is going to be somewhat hard to discern IMO. I think Apple will offer BTO BD and HD DVD drives until there is a clear front runner.
Oh, you mean like the clear front runner in Blu-ray that has been leading from the front for 3 months now...
Amazon today started their first Blu-ray sale where they're offering 50% off the list price for lots of Blu-ray movies from 20th Century Fox, Sony Pictures and Magnolia Pictures. There's a total of 47 movies available as part of the sale, with prices ranging from $13.49 to $19.97. The list of Blu-ray movies available include:
20th Century Fox:
Alien vs Predator, Behind Enemy Lines, Broken Arrow, Chain Reaction, Courage Under Fire, Entrapment, Fantastic Four, Flight of the Phoenix, Ice Age: The Meltdown, Kingdom of Heaven, Kiss of the Dragon, The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, The Marine, Men of Honor, The Omen (666), Phone Booth, Planet of the Apes, Rising Sun, The Sentinel, Speed, The Transporter, The Transporter 2, and X-Men: The Last Stand.
Sony Pictures:
50 First Dates, A Knight's Tale, The Big Hit, Black Hawk Down, The Fifth Element, Hitch, House of Flying Daggers, Into the Blue, Kung Fu Hustle, Little Man, Memento, Resident Evil: Apocalypse, Stealth, S.W.A.T., Tears of the Sun, and xXx.
Magnolia Pictures:
The Architect, Bubble, District B13, Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room, HDNet World Report: Shuttle Discovery's Historic Mission, One Last Thing..., The War Within, and The World's Fastest Indian.
There's no information about how long this sale will last so you might want to hurry up while the movies you want are still available.
The result at Amazon? Oh, simply domination...
The top 50 Blu-ray movies are ranked higher than HD DVD's top ten. It appears HD DVD is taking a hit in the roundtables. IMO, good move on the BDA's part to host a sale in the interim as other huge blockbusters for Blu-ray start poring out this month. Nice! 8)
Or perhaps we may evoke Occams Theory and simply state that excellent graph is the result of enthusiastic fans snapping up movies on sale.
I notice that statistics and rations are the favorite tool today and unfortunately there are a bunch of missing pieces. I'm being told that Blu-ray is getting a bigger piece of the pie but no one really has articulated well just how big ...or small that pie really is.
Another question to ponder is this.
"If the war is truly over as Fox and Sony love to proclaim. Why are they dropping the costs of the movies?"
I don't recall Apple dropping their drawls to make the iPod what it is today.
"If the war is truly over as Fox and Sony love to proclaim. Why are they dropping the costs of the movies?"
I've been wondering that myself. If Blu-Ray does have a lead that will hold over time, it makes no sense to drop the price of the discs. Especially since Sony has lost a boatload of money on the PS3 so far.
You say 'Yet another' as if there was previously more than...uh...one.
There are many more reasons to get a PS3, and yes I've given them before. If you want to know what those are simply read the various posts in this thread.
"If the war is truly over as Fox and Sony love to proclaim. Why are they dropping the costs of the movies?"
It's called burying your opponent, not really rocket science. IMO, the reason for the price drop is due to a very good number of blockbuster releases coming out starting this month that might overshadow the older releases on Blu-ray. Another reason could be so that Fox could go from the approximate 2.6 to 1 sales ratio compared to HD DVD currently to the full fledged 3:1 ratio by the end of March--just as Fox claimed at CES 2007.
Regardless of motive, the move assuredly will spark even more interest into the Blu-ray format, especially to those who suppose that "price trumps all" and to those self proclaimed fence sitters.
It's called burying your opponent, not really rocket science. IMO, the reason for the price drop is due to a very good number of blockbuster releases coming out starting this month that might overshadow the older releases on Blu-ray. Another reason could be so that Fox could go from the approximate 2.6 to 1 sales ratio compared to HD DVD currently to the full fledged 3:1 ratio by the end of March--just as Fox claimed at CES 2007.
Regardless of motive, the move assuredly will spark even more interest into the Blu-ray format, especially to those who suppose that "price trumps all" and to those self proclaimed fence sitters.
From the recent amazon sales on BD movies, all it proves is that everyone/even early adapters are looking for a bargain and lower cost would bring people to spend money. Same logic would also apply to the format war as cheaper format that can be had at less $ will be the winner when it comes to mass consumer market. It would take another year or so to get the hi-def hardware price down to such level, and I strongly doubt that BD will get there first.
It's called burying your opponent, not really rocket science. IMO, the reason for the price drop is due to a very good number of blockbuster releases coming out starting this month that might overshadow the older releases on Blu-ray. Another reason could be so that Fox could go from the approximate 2.6 to 1 sales ratio compared to HD DVD currently to the full fledged 3:1 ratio by the end of March--just as Fox claimed at CES 2007.
Regardless of motive, the move assuredly will spark even more interest into the Blu-ray format, especially to those who suppose that "price trumps all" and to those self proclaimed fence sitters.
No it's called losing profit. If you're really confident that you have the war won you don't go slashing prices/profit. The people that are going to take advantage of the deal already own BD players. Let's be honest $28 for Fox movies is excessive so they dropped those movies down to $20 which is what Warner and Paramount are selling plenty of titles at. Then they toss in a few $14.49 titles and this is supposed to be to bury HD DVD? Sounds like fantasy to me. Neither format is selling in any real substantial numbers. A 10:1 ration means little if you're talking about 22 titles. Fox can claim whatever but if they have to gut their profts just to hit their boastful numbers it doesn't look good.
No it's called losing profit. If you're really confident that you have the war won you don't go slashing prices/profit. The people that are going to take advantage of the deal already own BD players. Let's be honest $28 for Fox movies is excessive so they dropped those movies down to $20 which is what Warner and Paramount are selling plenty of titles at. Then they toss in a few $14.49 titles and this is supposed to be to bury HD DVD? Sounds like fantasy to me. Neither format is selling in any real substantial numbers. A 10:1 ration means little if you're talking about 22 titles. Fox can claim whatever but if they have to gut their profts just to hit their boastful numbers it doesn't look good.
Of course it looks good. If Fox tomorrow states they reached their 3 to 1 ratio as they predicted, it is nothing but more good press for Blu-ray and the dispersement of the image that Blu-ray is candidly winning the war. Let's not forget that wars are in large part won in the image you market--the fact that the image they are pedaling (the image of Blu-ray sales surpassing HD DVD) is indeed true doesn't hurt either--and oh it certainly looks good.
Besides, profit is profit. You don't know how much profit Fox and others are getting off of their discs even at the sales price. More importantly, it is a wise move to bury the competition in sales even at less substantial profit at the current moment when the bigger picture of mass consumer adoption is on the horizon.
You make some salient points there my friend. It'll be interesting to see how this shakes out. I'm betting it is more good than bad. Getting consumers into buying movies is something that studios have to prod people into.
Comments
Mark my words: Both formats will go the way of DivX because their DRM is just as repressive. History has shown that consumers always reject ononerous DRM schemes, even when it appears they have little choice in the matter.
I'm with you, JC !
They can take their shiny product offerings straight to the bin of unwanted tech ... (imo only, of course :P)
I'm absolutely sure that this has been mentioned before BUT I'll say it again - put all the frick'n formats on 1 disc so that any machine will play it. DVD version, BD, HD DVD versions > everyone wins.
In my opinion Blu Ray is gonna win because not only does it have the backing of Sony, Dell (hell) and apple, its featured in a 600 dollar console(half the price of standalong BD players), and just the sheer amount of memory it can hold.
now, this dosent mean its going to be a massive blow out by blu ray. Look at the hinders its recieved. The ps3 got off to an extremly slow start. Only selling 500,000+ consoles in 3 months. Also the price of the disks, and the lack of good titles, sure it has the backing of hundreds of companys, but the format is lacking good titles. Also HD dvd is hella cheaper, and would apeal more to people because it does have the trusted DVD name in it.
But HD DVD does have its flaws. It has 19gb of storage, but there only so far being used on movies. There arent any games coming out that are on hd dvd. Also there arent hd dvd drives for you computer like blu ray. While there is that external one that M$ has for there awesome 360. But its pretty tricky to use on your desktop
Allow me to correct a couple glaring errors here.
Apple is neutral and already sells a program (DVD Studio Pro) that authors rudimentary HD DVD discs in MPEG2 and AVC codec.
HD DVD supports 15GB single layer discs and 30GB Dual Layer discs.
Allow me to correct a couple glaring errors here.
Apple is neutral and already sells a program (DVD Studio Pro) that authors rudimentary HD DVD discs in MPEG2 and AVC codec.
Just because they allow for HD DVD creation in an app that have to support every format available, it doesn't mean that they are neutral.
I absolutely don't think we'll ever see a Mac with an HD DVD drive in it.
----
to anyone..
ok, for the heck of it... how DO we decide what WINNING means? what are the criteria?
does Apple actually have to ship ONLY ONE format? would that be a decider?
also.. mayhap as Vinea pointed out, the REAL "enemy" is (SD)DVD in this "war", so should we talk about just "HD Disc" sales V DVD sales? or is that another thead altogether
to anyone..
ok, for the heck of it... how DO we decide what WINNING means? what are the criteria?
does Apple actually have to ship ONLY ONE format? would that be a decider?
also.. mayhap as Vinea pointed out, the REAL "enemy" is (SD)DVD in this "war", so should we talk about just "HD Disc" sales V DVD sales? or is that another thead altogether
Heh..."winning" is in 2010 the Wikipedia entry that lists one as the loser and one as the winner in the format war. Of course like all "wars" there are often more than 50% losers...so there may be two losers and no winners...
Vinea
Just because they allow for HD DVD creation in an app that have to support every format available, it doesn't mean that they are neutral.
I absolutely don't think we'll ever see a Mac with an HD DVD drive in it.
Please elaborate. Apple has made it clear on numerous occasions that they support both formats.
Trendannoyer- I think we're going to have a stalemate so "winning" is going to be somewhat hard to discern IMO. I think Apple will offer BTO BD and HD DVD drives until there is a clear front runner.
Heh..."winning" is in 2010 the Wikipedia entry that lists one as the loser and one as the winner in the format war. Of course like all "wars" there are often more than 50% losers...so there may be two losers and no winners...
Vinea
This doesn't sound too pessimistic. If I can leach off either/both format for about 4+ years, I'd say that's pretty good. I'd hope there will be another more advanced format introduced around that time. Of course, this is a view from an enthusiast, but lost is a lost in the view point of the format war.
Heavenly Sword
http://eu.playstation.com/playstatio...T.mc_id=100055
Click on the "HD" link in the bottom left hand corner for 720P goodness.
Trendannoyer- I think we're going to have a stalemate so "winning" is going to be somewhat hard to discern IMO. I think Apple will offer BTO BD and HD DVD drives until there is a clear front runner.
Oh, you mean like the clear front runner in Blu-ray that has been leading from the front for 3 months now...
http://news.digitaltrends.com/article12412.html
Blu-ray is still beating HD DVD by at least 2 to 1. And as you too noted earlier, this can't be good for HD DVD either...
Amazon Offers 50% Off Blu-ray Movies
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=126
Amazon today started their first Blu-ray sale where they're offering 50% off the list price for lots of Blu-ray movies from 20th Century Fox, Sony Pictures and Magnolia Pictures. There's a total of 47 movies available as part of the sale, with prices ranging from $13.49 to $19.97. The list of Blu-ray movies available include:
20th Century Fox:
Alien vs Predator, Behind Enemy Lines, Broken Arrow, Chain Reaction, Courage Under Fire, Entrapment, Fantastic Four, Flight of the Phoenix, Ice Age: The Meltdown, Kingdom of Heaven, Kiss of the Dragon, The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, The Marine, Men of Honor, The Omen (666), Phone Booth, Planet of the Apes, Rising Sun, The Sentinel, Speed, The Transporter, The Transporter 2, and X-Men: The Last Stand.
Sony Pictures:
50 First Dates, A Knight's Tale, The Big Hit, Black Hawk Down, The Fifth Element, Hitch, House of Flying Daggers, Into the Blue, Kung Fu Hustle, Little Man, Memento, Resident Evil: Apocalypse, Stealth, S.W.A.T., Tears of the Sun, and xXx.
Magnolia Pictures:
The Architect, Bubble, District B13, Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room, HDNet World Report: Shuttle Discovery's Historic Mission, One Last Thing..., The War Within, and The World's Fastest Indian.
There's no information about how long this sale will last so you might want to hurry up while the movies you want are still available.
The result at Amazon? Oh, simply domination...
The top 50 Blu-ray movies are ranked higher than HD DVD's top ten. It appears HD DVD is taking a hit in the roundtables. IMO, good move on the BDA's part to host a sale in the interim as other huge blockbusters for Blu-ray start poring out this month. Nice! 8)
I notice that statistics and rations are the favorite tool today and unfortunately there are a bunch of missing pieces. I'm being told that Blu-ray is getting a bigger piece of the pie but no one really has articulated well just how big ...or small that pie really is.
Another question to ponder is this.
"If the war is truly over as Fox and Sony love to proclaim. Why are they dropping the costs of the movies?"
I don't recall Apple dropping their drawls to make the iPod what it is today.
Heh..."winning" is in 2010 the Wikipedia entry that lists one as the loser and one as the winner in the format war.
Actually, that entry already says Blu-ray is the winne... Hey, who reverted my edits???
Yet another reason to get a PS3...
Heavenly Sword
http://eu.playstation.com/playstatio...T.mc_id=100055
Click on the "HD" link in the bottom left hand corner for 720P goodness.
You say 'Yet another' as if there was previously more than...uh...one.
"If the war is truly over as Fox and Sony love to proclaim. Why are they dropping the costs of the movies?"
I've been wondering that myself. If Blu-Ray does have a lead that will hold over time, it makes no sense to drop the price of the discs. Especially since Sony has lost a boatload of money on the PS3 so far.
I've been wondering that myself. If Blu-Ray does have a lead that will hold over time, it makes no sense to drop the price of the discs.
aka - "putting the boot in" to your opposition when you can.
It should definately stimulate demand for the players.
That's a huge drop, tho' ... interesting.
Wonder if there will be a response from the other guys.
hmmm ... maybe I'll have to revise my "unwanted tech" call.
Still don't go for all the DRM stuff - don't beleive the market wants it or that it's necessary.
You say 'Yet another' as if there was previously more than...uh...one.
There are many more reasons to get a PS3, and yes I've given them before. If you want to know what those are simply read the various posts in this thread.
"If the war is truly over as Fox and Sony love to proclaim. Why are they dropping the costs of the movies?"
It's called burying your opponent, not really rocket science. IMO, the reason for the price drop is due to a very good number of blockbuster releases coming out starting this month that might overshadow the older releases on Blu-ray. Another reason could be so that Fox could go from the approximate 2.6 to 1 sales ratio compared to HD DVD currently to the full fledged 3:1 ratio by the end of March--just as Fox claimed at CES 2007.
Regardless of motive, the move assuredly will spark even more interest into the Blu-ray format, especially to those who suppose that "price trumps all" and to those self proclaimed fence sitters.
It's called burying your opponent, not really rocket science. IMO, the reason for the price drop is due to a very good number of blockbuster releases coming out starting this month that might overshadow the older releases on Blu-ray. Another reason could be so that Fox could go from the approximate 2.6 to 1 sales ratio compared to HD DVD currently to the full fledged 3:1 ratio by the end of March--just as Fox claimed at CES 2007.
Regardless of motive, the move assuredly will spark even more interest into the Blu-ray format, especially to those who suppose that "price trumps all" and to those self proclaimed fence sitters.
From the recent amazon sales on BD movies, all it proves is that everyone/even early adapters are looking for a bargain and lower cost would bring people to spend money. Same logic would also apply to the format war as cheaper format that can be had at less $ will be the winner when it comes to mass consumer market. It would take another year or so to get the hi-def hardware price down to such level, and I strongly doubt that BD will get there first.
It's called burying your opponent, not really rocket science. IMO, the reason for the price drop is due to a very good number of blockbuster releases coming out starting this month that might overshadow the older releases on Blu-ray. Another reason could be so that Fox could go from the approximate 2.6 to 1 sales ratio compared to HD DVD currently to the full fledged 3:1 ratio by the end of March--just as Fox claimed at CES 2007.
Regardless of motive, the move assuredly will spark even more interest into the Blu-ray format, especially to those who suppose that "price trumps all" and to those self proclaimed fence sitters.
No it's called losing profit. If you're really confident that you have the war won you don't go slashing prices/profit. The people that are going to take advantage of the deal already own BD players. Let's be honest $28 for Fox movies is excessive so they dropped those movies down to $20 which is what Warner and Paramount are selling plenty of titles at. Then they toss in a few $14.49 titles and this is supposed to be to bury HD DVD? Sounds like fantasy to me. Neither format is selling in any real substantial numbers. A 10:1 ration means little if you're talking about 22 titles. Fox can claim whatever but if they have to gut their profts just to hit their boastful numbers it doesn't look good.
No it's called losing profit. If you're really confident that you have the war won you don't go slashing prices/profit. The people that are going to take advantage of the deal already own BD players. Let's be honest $28 for Fox movies is excessive so they dropped those movies down to $20 which is what Warner and Paramount are selling plenty of titles at. Then they toss in a few $14.49 titles and this is supposed to be to bury HD DVD? Sounds like fantasy to me. Neither format is selling in any real substantial numbers. A 10:1 ration means little if you're talking about 22 titles. Fox can claim whatever but if they have to gut their profts just to hit their boastful numbers it doesn't look good.
Of course it looks good. If Fox tomorrow states they reached their 3 to 1 ratio as they predicted, it is nothing but more good press for Blu-ray and the dispersement of the image that Blu-ray is candidly winning the war. Let's not forget that wars are in large part won in the image you market--the fact that the image they are pedaling (the image of Blu-ray sales surpassing HD DVD) is indeed true doesn't hurt either--and oh it certainly looks good.
Besides, profit is profit. You don't know how much profit Fox and others are getting off of their discs even at the sales price. More importantly, it is a wise move to bury the competition in sales even at less substantial profit at the current moment when the bigger picture of mass consumer adoption is on the horizon.