Apple to adopt ZFS as default file system for Leopard

Posted:
in macOS edited January 2014
Just found on www.macrumors.com



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Perhaps overcome with excitement (and forgetting that Apple doesn't like such pre-emptive disclosures), Sun's Jonathan Schwartz announced today at Sun event in Washington D.C. that Apple would be making ZFS "the file system" in Mac OS 10.5 Leopard (video link, requires RealPlayer).



In fact, this week you'll see that Apple is announcing at their Worldwide Developer Conference that ZFS has become the file system in Mac OS 10.

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Link To Vid: silly ass long link



Comments?
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 156
    If true, this is great news!



    Apple must have piled on the engineers to sort out a boot solution.
  • Reply 2 of 156
    davegeedavegee Posts: 2,765member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by audiopollution View Post


    If true, this is great news!



    Apple must have piled on the engineers to sort out a boot solution.



    Indeed... Funny I just downloaded realplayer to watch the clip and it's not showing any keynote instead some odd instructional video on taking video or photos...



    Odd...



    D
  • Reply 3 of 156
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,660member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post


    Indeed... Funny I just downloaded realplayer to watch the clip and it's not showing any keynote instead some odd instructional video on taking video or photos...



    Odd...



    D



    The Steve is powerful. Next, when you go to the Sun site you'll find a pottery enthusiast page.



    Do not pre-announce the Steve's magics.
  • Reply 4 of 156
    AppleInsiderAppleInsider Posts: 37,956administrator
    It may have been a premeditated outburst or a sudden slip-of-the-lip, but either way Sun Microsystems chief executive Jonathan Schwartz is claiming that Apple next week will announce a plan to replace the default Mac OS X file system with the Sun-developed ZFS.



    Schwartz made the plans public while speaking to analysts and members of the media at a company event in nation's capital on Wednesday. The event was primarily aimed at hyping a more flexible array of blade servers.



    "In fact, this week you'll see that Apple is announcing at their Worldwide Developer Conference that ZFS has become the file system in Mac OS 10," he said while speaking of his firm's file system (Real Player video link).



    Originally conceived by Sun as a foundation for its Solaris operating system, ZFS features high capacity, a novel on-disk structure, lightweight instances, and the integration of the concepts for volume management.



    Unlike a traditional file system, which resides on a single device and thus requires a volume manager to use more than one device, ZFS is built on top of virtual storage pools called zpools. A pool is constructed from virtual devices, each of which is either a raw device, a mirror of one or more devices, or a RAID-Z group of two or more devices.



    ZFS would replace Apple's current default file system, Journaled HFS+, beginning with October's release of Leopard, according to Schwartz' comments.
  • Reply 5 of 156
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    Hmm. What are the implications of this. Will files be compatible with previous versions of Mac OS X. Will there be a choice as there is now when you format. What benefits does this bring.
  • Reply 6 of 156
    tomozjtomozj Posts: 54member
    I've heared ZFS is great, so it looks great. They'll probably include ZFS support in 10.4.10 once they've actually announced this themselves, and hopefully it'll be backwards compatible in some ways... we hope.



    If it isn't going to be compatible, then it'll suck. Otherwise, all is well, no?



    -tj
  • Reply 7 of 156
    why release new hardware (MB/MBPs) and render their systems incompatible only days/months later?
  • Reply 8 of 156
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,660member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by shiato storm View Post


    why release new hardware (MB/MBPs) and render their systems incompatible only days/months later?



    Nearly 5 months till the announced Leopard release, so that's a reasonable stretch till the next revision, and given recent history that revision could easily be a major one.



    It makes sense to do basic "keeping up with the Joneses" CPU/graphics card/HDD until then, and might explain why there hasn't been anything more substantial for a while.
  • Reply 9 of 156
    audiopollutionaudiopollution Posts: 3,226member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by shiato storm View Post


    why release new hardware (MB/MBPs) and render their systems incompatible only days/months later?



    Yes, of course, they should just stop developing anything new!



    Also, how does this render the new systems incompatible? It's a filesystem.
  • Reply 10 of 156
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,125member
    Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet



    That likely means that Time Machine is going to be based on ZFS snapshots rather than Journaled HFS+



    Sun's Schwartz made a boo boo by spilling the beans but ZFS isn't going to be a Top Secret Leopard feature. It's already known that ZFS support was in the betas albeit non bootable.
  • Reply 11 of 156
    johnnykrzjohnnykrz Posts: 152member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by audiopollution View Post


    If true, this is great news!



    Apple must have piled on the engineers to sort out a boot solution.



    This makes sense. That must be why there hasn't been much news about ZFS development lately. It was pulled under Apple's iron curtain where the boot problem and other bugs are hopefully being fixed. Maybe Apple decided to let Sun have the thunder on this one by announcing it before them (since it is their tech and all and Apple should have plenty to announce for themselves).
  • Reply 12 of 156
    nagrommenagromme Posts: 2,834member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet



    That likely means that Time Machine is going to be based on ZFS snapshots rather than Journaled HFS+



    Sun's Schwartz made a boo boo by spilling the beans but ZFS isn't going to be a Top Secret Leopard feature. It's already known that ZFS support was in the betas albeit non bootable.



    I don't think Time Machine is based on ZFS, though it will certainly work WITH ZFS if you use ZFS. Hasn't Time Machine been in the betas so far, working HFS+?



    I don't think people will have to move to ZFS, but it's VERY nice to have the capability! The speed and reliability benefits sound huge.
  • Reply 13 of 156
    davegeedavegee Posts: 2,765member
    Rethinking this... he didn't specifically come out and say ZFS will become the **default** filesystem for OS X 10.5 he said "ZFS will be the filesystem..." and could have very well meant to say "ZFS will be a filesystem for OS X 10.5 ..."



    Also as far as time machine using ZFS I wouldn't be too sure... It'll be a safe bet that initially TM will work with HFS+ as well as ZFS and thus might not be taking advantage of specific features of ZFS - at least not right away...



    Dave
  • Reply 14 of 156
    pbpb Posts: 4,226member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet



    That likely means that Time Machine is going to be based on ZFS snapshots rather than Journaled HFS+



    I still fail to see in what ways ZFS affects the computing experience in everyday general use.
  • Reply 15 of 156
    irelandireland Posts: 17,424member
    Zi file system!
  • Reply 16 of 156
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 29,915member
    "I'm gonna kill you, Schwartz!" -Steve Jobs
  • Reply 17 of 156
    doroteadorotea Posts: 323member
    I would think that ZFS would allow you to have a virtual filesystem that crosses physical boundaries of hard drives.



    I ran out of space on my main/boot harddrive because of video. With ZFS, I think I should be able to extend the filesystem so that it looks like all my videos are under my own username/home directory but actually are on 2 separate drives.



    Any insights on how ZFS might benefit users?
  • Reply 18 of 156
    shadowshadow Posts: 373member
    Time Machine will definitely work with HFS+, but it requires a second volume to be activated. Besides, it makes a copy of the modified files/sectors, which is slow. ZFS snapshots are not bringing any overhead, it's because of the way the file system works. It can be faster (in some situations - much faster) than HFS even when using a single volume. The trick is clever scheduling of the read/write operations. If you are watching movie, for example, the reading operation will have high priority and there will be no dropouts. For the Mac OS X Server with RAID the performance improvement may be dramatic. It is VERY fast for DB etc. It also has a built-in compression (I guess encryption can be added too), which, unlike some old Windows and mac implementations, further improve the performance on modern CPUs.

    ZFS is VERY reliable. Unlike Journaling on HFS+, there is no performance penalty for increased (actually, much better than in HFS+) reliability.

    If you make a search, you may find stunning performance results. This is not the best one:

    http://www.helios.de/news/news07/zfs.phtml

    In many cases you may think this is impossible because it is beyond the hardware limits of the drive speed/interface bandwidth.

    Microsoft failed to deliver the promised new file system with Vista. And Apple is going to speak very loudly about ZFS benefits.
  • Reply 19 of 156
    project2501project2501 Posts: 433member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dorotea View Post


    I would think that ZFS would allow you to have a virtual filesystem that crosses physical boundaries of hard drives.



    I ran out of space on my main/boot harddrive because of video. With ZFS, I think I should be able to extend the filesystem so that it looks like all my videos are under my own username/home directory but actually are on 2 separate drives.



    Any insights on how ZFS might benefit users?



    You are absolutely correct with your assumption. If you want to read more wikipedia is a good place to start.
  • Reply 20 of 156
    shadowshadow Posts: 373member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dorotea View Post


    I ran out of space on my main/boot harddrive because of video. With ZFS, I think I should be able to extend the filesystem so that it looks like all my videos are under my own username/home directory but actually are on 2 separate drives.



    Exactly, you will be able. This particular feature is not really new for the UNIX world (it was there for ages) but it was never there in Mac OS 9 - X and all flavors of Windows. You should be careful with this however. If you are not using RAID configurations, you should avoid using, for example, 2 filesystems spread around two physical drives each (e.g. for increased performance) if at least one of them could reside on a single drive. You will be in trouble if one of the drives fails, or if you decide to remove it.



    Edit: Project2501 was faster
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