Apple doesn't understand that Europe & America are two diffirent merkets.
For example, here in Belgium operators can't sell a phone and a SIM (postpaid/prepaid) together. So you have to buy a phone as "bulk" and buy prepaidcards or subscribe to a postpaid contract.
The only thing they can do is put there name on the box of new phones. Like Mobistar (Orange Belgium) has phones boxed with "MobistarCollection" on it, The phone has settings for the operator preloaded but there's no SIM in the box.
So what will Apple do in Belgium?
And you reach this conclusion based on what information? You really think that Apple, given the size and investment in this project, isn't aware of these things? This information is not really that hard to come by.
There is NO reliable information out there about how the iPhone will be released in Europe. Speculation about it is one thing but why do people insists on making conclusory statements - "Apple Doesn't understand the Europe & America are two different markets." - based on no information.
May I ask what features Carriers are blocking. I'm a Cingular customer, and I've never had any problems. I have heard that tmobile cripples bluetooth and wifi.
T-Mobile is actually the one US carrier that has openly embraced and supported Wifi (due to their Hotspots service) and has more Wifi enabled handsets than anyone. They also have the least crippled phone/devices of the big four IMHO. Now Verizon on the other hand limits just about *everything* you can do with your own phone, with Sprint being a close second.
I don't understand why, in the first place, Apple needs a telecom service partner in Europe. It's not like the US, where the service providers are gatekeepers between the handset provider and the customer. I always figured that, in Europe, someone who is interested could just buy one retail (and unlocked), and take it to any provider to get a service (unless there is a discount, which Apple does not seem to want to agree to).
I think Apple wants a Telecom in Europe so they are not forced to sell their phones unlocked for any reason. If they were forced to do business the normal way in europe and sell unlocked phones that use SIM cards...then I (in the US) could buy an unlocked phone from Europe (like i already do) and just put my T-Mobile sim card in it.
Personally I am really hoping this happens cuz I love T-Mobile and have never had any problems. I dont want to switch to AT&Crap.
The iPhone hasn't changed anything, except now its not the carriers holding back your abilities, it'll be apple. They're the ones trying to tell the carriers what to do, what to allow and not allow.
Of course it hasn't changed anything, its not been released yet.
Oh wait, it already has changed things. Just look at the 'iPhone Killers' being put forward????
I know that my toughts are based on rumors, but facts are:
1. There is no one big European operator, who has networks in all country's
2. Bundeling phones is not everywhere allowed.
3. UMTS/HSDPA is already rolled out in lot's of country's
No disagreement on those facts - but how do they drive the conclusion that "Apple doesn't understand that Europe & America are two diffirent merkets."?
Other facts to add:
1. Apple has been working iTunes agreements across the world.
2. Apple sells computers and iPods across the world.
May I ask what features Carriers are blocking. I'm a Cingular customer, and I've never had any problems. I have heard that tmobile cripples bluetooth and wifi.
I'm talking about designing the actual phone. Phone makers need to submit their phones to carriers for approval, and carriers tell them what features they want the phone to have ect. and so forth. For example, this is one reason why you would never see wifi in a phone, because carriers want you to pay for a data plan.
The iPhone hasn't changed anything, except now its not the carriers holding back your abilities, it'll be apple. They're the ones trying to tell the carriers what to do, what to allow and not allow.
The iPhone has turned the development of phones completely on it's head. The inclusion of Wifi is a perfect example.
does retail only mean apple becoming a virtual operator or simply selling iphones on no network for you to put your own sim in?
Retail only means handset only, you would be required to source your own SIM and contract.
Quote:
orange are a lousy operator by all accounts so as long as its not exclusively apples and oranges it should be ok.
By all accounts? By who's accounts? Actually Orange ranked highest in the latest consumer satisfaction survey. They tend to have a good rapport with their customers and a faithful following.
I think Apple wants a Telecom in Europe so they are not forced to sell their phones unlocked for any reason. If they were forced to do business the normal way in europe and sell unlocked phones that use SIM cards...then I (in the US) could buy an unlocked phone from Europe (like i already do) and just put my T-Mobile sim card in it.
Personally I am really hoping this happens cuz I love T-Mobile and have never had any problems. I dont want to switch to AT&Crap.
But: (1) if there is a SIM tray that slides out (as some people have speculated), (2) since there is no price advantage to buying the iPhone with or w/o ATT, and (3) if visual voicemail is not an issue (based on what GQB pointed out above), couldn't you just order the handset from the Apple online store and put in a T-Mobile (or any other) SIM card?
Now Verizon on the other hand limits just about *everything* you can do with your own phone, with Sprint being a close second.
Yeah VZW is the worst. They cripple critical features (e.g. Bluetooth) and dictate that all phones must run their own crappy custom software interface. How would you like it if Comcast said that in order to use their broadband service, you had to buy a computer through them, and that computer had to run a custom Comcast version of Windows 95?
I think this is great news and truly hope Apple doesn't succeed in find a European partner.
As long as the iPhone is contract only there is no prospect I would ever consider acquiring one as pre-paid is the only economic option for me. So Apple selling them retail over here is a good thing IMO. The other thing is that if they do, I could buy iPhones and sell them to people in the US via eBay who don't want a contract or Cingular - ha ha! (only kidding in case you are humor impaired)
Before you point out the visual voice mail wouldn't work in the US other than on a contract with Cingular or in Europe if they don't get a partner - I realise that and couldn't care less, personally. Not a feature of interest to me.
Comments
Apple doesn't understand that Europe & America are two diffirent merkets.
For example, here in Belgium operators can't sell a phone and a SIM (postpaid/prepaid) together. So you have to buy a phone as "bulk" and buy prepaidcards or subscribe to a postpaid contract.
The only thing they can do is put there name on the box of new phones. Like Mobistar (Orange Belgium) has phones boxed with "MobistarCollection" on it, The phone has settings for the operator preloaded but there's no SIM in the box.
So what will Apple do in Belgium?
And you reach this conclusion based on what information? You really think that Apple, given the size and investment in this project, isn't aware of these things? This information is not really that hard to come by.
There is NO reliable information out there about how the iPhone will be released in Europe. Speculation about it is one thing but why do people insists on making conclusory statements - "Apple Doesn't understand the Europe & America are two different markets." - based on no information.
This is portentous rubbish.
Ooh.... impressive word. Why use a simple word when a vainglorious one will suffice!
Yes it is. How do you know who's trying to screw who.
Exactly
I know that my toughts are based on rumors, but facts are:
1. There is no one big European operator, who has networks in all country's
2. Bundeling phones is not everywhere allowed.
3. UMTS/HSDPA is already rolled out in lot's of country's
May I ask what features Carriers are blocking. I'm a Cingular customer, and I've never had any problems. I have heard that tmobile cripples bluetooth and wifi.
T-Mobile is actually the one US carrier that has openly embraced and supported Wifi (due to their Hotspots service) and has more Wifi enabled handsets than anyone. They also have the least crippled phone/devices of the big four IMHO. Now Verizon on the other hand limits just about *everything* you can do with your own phone, with Sprint being a close second.
@physguy
I know that my toughts are based on rumors, but facts are:
1. There is no one big European operator, who has networks in all country's
2. Bundeling phones is not everywhere allowed.
3. UMTS/HSDPA is already rolled out in lot's of country's
I know all that. But what makes you think Apple doesn't?
I don't understand why, in the first place, Apple needs a telecom service partner in Europe. It's not like the US, where the service providers are gatekeepers between the handset provider and the customer. I always figured that, in Europe, someone who is interested could just buy one retail (and unlocked), and take it to any provider to get a service (unless there is a discount, which Apple does not seem to want to agree to).
I think Apple wants a Telecom in Europe so they are not forced to sell their phones unlocked for any reason. If they were forced to do business the normal way in europe and sell unlocked phones that use SIM cards...then I (in the US) could buy an unlocked phone from Europe (like i already do) and just put my T-Mobile sim card in it.
Personally I am really hoping this happens cuz I love T-Mobile and have never had any problems. I dont want to switch to AT&Crap.
The iPhone hasn't changed anything, except now its not the carriers holding back your abilities, it'll be apple. They're the ones trying to tell the carriers what to do, what to allow and not allow.
Of course it hasn't changed anything, its not been released yet.
Oh wait, it already has changed things. Just look at the 'iPhone Killers' being put forward????
@physguy
I know that my toughts are based on rumors, but facts are:
1. There is no one big European operator, who has networks in all country's
2. Bundeling phones is not everywhere allowed.
3. UMTS/HSDPA is already rolled out in lot's of country's
No disagreement on those facts - but how do they drive the conclusion that "Apple doesn't understand that Europe & America are two diffirent merkets."?
Other facts to add:
1. Apple has been working iTunes agreements across the world.
2. Apple sells computers and iPods across the world.
3. Apple is in business to make a profit.
May I ask what features Carriers are blocking. I'm a Cingular customer, and I've never had any problems. I have heard that tmobile cripples bluetooth and wifi.
I'm talking about designing the actual phone. Phone makers need to submit their phones to carriers for approval, and carriers tell them what features they want the phone to have ect. and so forth. For example, this is one reason why you would never see wifi in a phone, because carriers want you to pay for a data plan.
The iPhone hasn't changed anything, except now its not the carriers holding back your abilities, it'll be apple. They're the ones trying to tell the carriers what to do, what to allow and not allow.
The iPhone has turned the development of phones completely on it's head. The inclusion of Wifi is a perfect example.
does retail only mean apple becoming a virtual operator or simply selling iphones on no network for you to put your own sim in?
Retail only means handset only, you would be required to source your own SIM and contract.
orange are a lousy operator by all accounts so as long as its not exclusively apples and oranges it should be ok.
By all accounts? By who's accounts? Actually Orange ranked highest in the latest consumer satisfaction survey. They tend to have a good rapport with their customers and a faithful following.
The iPhone has turned the development of phones completely on it's head. The inclusion of Wifi is a perfect example.
Umm there are plenty of phones with WiFi! Where have you been the past 2 years?
Umm there are plenty of phones with WiFi! Where have you been the past 2 years?
I think Apple wants a Telecom in Europe so they are not forced to sell their phones unlocked for any reason. If they were forced to do business the normal way in europe and sell unlocked phones that use SIM cards...then I (in the US) could buy an unlocked phone from Europe (like i already do) and just put my T-Mobile sim card in it.
Personally I am really hoping this happens cuz I love T-Mobile and have never had any problems. I dont want to switch to AT&Crap.
But: (1) if there is a SIM tray that slides out (as some people have speculated), (2) since there is no price advantage to buying the iPhone with or w/o ATT, and (3) if visual voicemail is not an issue (based on what GQB pointed out above), couldn't you just order the handset from the Apple online store and put in a T-Mobile (or any other) SIM card?
Umm there are plenty of phones with WiFi! Where have you been the past 2 years?
And you can use it to browse the internet? Mother fucker. Nevermind what I said.
Now Verizon on the other hand limits just about *everything* you can do with your own phone, with Sprint being a close second.
Yeah VZW is the worst. They cripple critical features (e.g. Bluetooth) and dictate that all phones must run their own crappy custom software interface. How would you like it if Comcast said that in order to use their broadband service, you had to buy a computer through them, and that computer had to run a custom Comcast version of Windows 95?
Dont know about you guys but a 2 year contract is for mugs. Especially as the successor to the iphone could be out before your 2 years are up.
As long as the iPhone is contract only there is no prospect I would ever consider acquiring one as pre-paid is the only economic option for me. So Apple selling them retail over here is a good thing IMO. The other thing is that if they do, I could buy iPhones and sell them to people in the US via eBay who don't want a contract or Cingular - ha ha! (only kidding in case you are humor impaired)
Before you point out the visual voice mail wouldn't work in the US other than on a contract with Cingular or in Europe if they don't get a partner - I realise that and couldn't care less, personally. Not a feature of interest to me.
I think this is great news and truly hope Apple doesn't succeed in find a European partner.
Ditto. I hope the same thing happens in asia. I haven't owned a phone with a contract for years.
But the biggest issue really is: It needs 3G and it needs MMS support. Until that happeneds it won't sell in Europe or Asia.