"All that said, I truly wish Apple would tone down its arrogance."
My widget says that being arrogant is having an exaggerated sense of one's own abilities or importance.
I bring this up only because I've grown weary of Apple and Steve Job's specifically being labeled as "arrogant". I've been using Macs and PC's for 23 years and it's my belief that Apple has no clue whatsoever as to how good they really are. Their products have been one of the few rays of light in the sometimes living hell we call technology. Given the power of the technology employed their ease of use is under and not overstated. Consider the integration of iTunes, the iTunes store and the iPod. It's like Bill Gates said at the D4 conference; "Apples ability to develop new and compelling products is almost magical". (or something to that effect)
If Apple had bothered to produce a video tape player you can bet there wouldn't have been all those incorrect times flashing all over the world.
Nope...not arrogant...competent. Is that what pisses off all the pundits? Competence? Seems a sad state of affairs to me.
"All that said, I truly wish Apple would tone down its arrogance."
My widget says that being arrogant is having an exaggerated sense of one's own abilities or importance.
I bring this up only because I've grown weary of Apple and Steve Job's specifically being labeled as "arrogant". I've been using Macs and PC's for 23 years and it's my belief that Apple has no clue whatsoever as to how good they really are. Their products have been one of the few rays of light in the sometimes living hell we call technology. Given the power of the technology employed their ease of use is under and not overstated. Consider the integration of iTunes, the iTunes store and the iPod. It's like Bill Gates said at the D4 conference; "Apples ability to develop new and compelling products is almost magical". (or something to that effect)
If Apple had bothered to produce a video tape player you can bet there wouldn't have been all those incorrect times flashing all over the world.
Nope...not arrogant...competent. Is that what pisses off all the pundits? Competence? Seems a sad state of affairs to me.
I don't know about your widget, but a site that I use all the time -- thesaurus.com (which has a great dictionary section too, btw) -- says it all for me:
Look, I am the biggest Apple and SJ fan (altho, I may not sound that way 110% of the time). But, there are times when, at least out of some modicum of intellectual honesty, one has to call a spade a spade.
Looks like Orange dont want 2 year contracts. It must be over pricing.
I don't think any of the carriers in Europe would even dare offer 2 year contracts. 18months max.
I'd be careful with what this analyst has said. Orange and Vodafone in particular usually insist that phones have their software installed. Orange completely screwed the SE P990i launch last year with it's buggy software which took up too much RAM, replaced the front screen with their corporate Orange icons and removed features like the RSS reader. Vodafone usually inflicts 'Vodafone Live!' on their phones. Both of them have recently started disabling features on Nokia's phones such as disabling VOIP on the N/E series phones. That's a fairly new trend and not a good one.
It may not be Apple making demands here, it may be Apple refusing to let the phone companies mess with the iPhone software or features.
On the other hand, if Apple are talking to Vodafone and Orange, the two demands that they should be making other than "Don't mess with teh iPhone software" is for the carriers to implement Visual Voicemail and that they have to sell it with a decent data plan or it will tank.
IMHO the only carrier in the UK where the iPhone makes sense is T-Mobile because they're the only ones with a cheap data plan.
It might seem bizarre that Europe's phone carriers aren't bending over backwards for Apple but when you've got Nokia N95s, SE W910/960/P1i and even the Moto Z8 in your list of available phones that fit your market better, why add a 2G phone with a shit camera and no money grabbing 3G services?
I recall that a few weeks ago, on the topic of how sophisticated the iPhone is, you sounded like the arbiter of Europe vs. USA's technological savvy-ness. The latter, you claimed (I am paraphrasing) are tech luddites. (I am happy to locate that comment and cut-and-paste if you wish).
If your claim is that the Europeans' idea of a non-'shit camera' (sic) is found on a mobile phone (yeah, you can forget the recent N95 and equivalents that almost no one owns yet), then, either you have a pretty piss-poor view of your compatriots' tech savvy-ness, or you are somewhat clueless in indulging in such sweeping judgments.
I recall that a few weeks ago, on the topic of how sophisticated the iPhone is, you sounded like the arbiter of Europe vs. USA's technological savvy-ness. The latter, you claimed (I am paraphrasing) are tech luddites. (I am happy to locate that comment and cut-and-paste if you wish).
If your claim is that the Europeans' idea of a non-'shit camera' (sic) is found on a mobile phone (yeah, you can forget the recent N95 and equivalents that almost no one owns yet), then, either you have a pretty piss-poor view of your compatriots' tech savvy-ness, or you are somewhat clueless in indulging in such sweeping judgments.
Actually, I didn't miss those! (They're really quite butt-ugly, but I suppose that is a matter of personal aesthetic preference.) And, like the iPhone, they have not been made available yet. Unlike the iPhone, they're all expected to be available only much later this year.
Technologically, if you are (or someone you know is) in the market for a decent digital camera, you may want to graduate from mobile phones and check out some fairly inexpensive double-digit MP models that have been recently introduced, e.g. the 12.1 or 10.5 MP from: http://exilim.casio.com/ (the latter can be had for the equivalent of about GBP125 in the US).
Actually, I didn't miss those! (They're really quite butt-ugly, but I suppose that is a matter of personal aesthetic preference.)
I think that's actually more a continental thing although I'm with you on SE's buttons on some of the new phones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
And, like the iPhone, they have not been made available yet. Unlike the iPhone, they're all expected to be available only much later this year.
They'll be out before the iPhone in Europe. See the thread title. The 3.2mp K800 has been out a couple of years now. Wifi and 3G phones 3-4 years at least. Someone mentioned earlier the iPhone changes the game whilst clearly, technically it's old technology on the hardware front. It's all about the software as far as I'm concerned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Technologically, if you are (or someone you know is) in the market for a decent digital camera, you may want to graduate from mobile phones and check out some fairly inexpensive double-digit MP models that have been recently introduced, e.g. the 12.1 or 10.5 MP from: http://exilim.casio.com/ (the latter can be had for the equivalent of about GBP125 in the US).
A Casio? No bloody way. Calculators yes, cameras, no.
The point I'm making is people aren't graduating from phones to cameras, they're doing the reverse now that phones are good enough for many people. If you go to a wedding or something like that here in the UK, I'd say 70% of people are snapping on phones, not cameras.
And then they're MMSing the pictures to their friends over 3G. Hmmm.
T-Mobile is actually the one US carrier that has openly embraced and supported Wifi (due to their Hotspots service) and has more Wifi enabled handsets than anyone. They also have the least crippled phone/devices of the big four IMHO. Now Verizon on the other hand limits just about *everything* you can do with your own phone, with Sprint being a close second.
No, Sprint is actually pretty good. I can use my Treo as a modem for a portable, if I wanted to. There are other services that I could use as well.
But, it's up to the cell companies to use their networks as they see fit.
I'm talking about designing the actual phone. Phone makers need to submit their phones to carriers for approval, and carriers tell them what features they want the phone to have ect. and so forth. For example, this is one reason why you would never see wifi in a phone, because carriers want you to pay for a data plan.
Okay, in the tradition of wild iPhone speculation... What if the new iPhone were to use the newly announced Kodak camera phone sensor that is supposed to be so sensitive to light that you don't need flash?
Kodak stock just hit a 52 week high??? Coincidence? I don't think so. And Steve Jobs has been awfully quiet on the camera capability.
Oh, yea and will it record full motion video? How about recording HD 720p 30 frame HD video. That would be sweet.
Come on, you don't really think the world's coolest new phone will have just a mere mortal camera in it, do you?
Okay, in the tradition of wild iPhone speculation... What if the new iPhone were to use the newly announced Kodak camera phone sensor that is supposed to be so sensitive to light that you don't need flash?
Kodak stock just hit a 52 week high??? Coincidence? I don't think so. And Steve Jobs has been awfully quiet on the camera capability.
Oh, yea and will it record full motion video? How about recording HD 720p 30 frame HD video. That would be sweet.
Come on, you don't really think the world's coolest new phone will have just a mere mortal camera in it, do you?
Hmmmmmmm.
Oh, please!
If any of that were true, Jobs would have jumped on announcing it.
does retail only mean apple becoming a virtual operator or simply selling iphones on no network for you to put your own sim in?
orange are a lousy operator by all accounts so as long as its not exclusively apples and oranges it should be ok.
if it was Voda or T Mobile I'd be happy. Used to support O2 util in typical british business man short signted ness they sold out. - and yes i am british, and i notice how the best run biritsh companies have foreign ceo's
Agreed Orange/Hutchinson/Three sucks bollocks big time.
Retail means full unlocked, I gather. If that happens you can see a FUCKLOAD (since everyone is swearing on this thread, heh) of grey imports into Asia from Europe. And back into USA (possibly).
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
I don't understand why, in the first place, Apple needs a telecom service partner in Europe. It's not like the US, where the service providers are gatekeepers between the handset provider and the customer. I always figured that, in Europe, someone who is interested could just buy one retail (and unlocked), and take it to any provider to get a service (unless there is a discount, which Apple does not seem to want to agree to).
I think not having a partner may become more of an issue a couple of years down the road. However, if and when its numbers grow, the service providers will find it in their interest to deal with Apple.
All that said, I truly wish Apple would tone down its arrogance. That is the kind of thing that could truly destroy the company in the long run, regardless of how cool it is (or thinks it is). This attitude -- often attributed to US companies -- simply does not fly in Europe and Asia. (If they can't tone it down, they shouldn't even bother trying to enter those markets).
Fair points. If Apple had rubbish products then their arrogance would cripple them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmig
If we were talking about actual end users, then I would agree. But we're talking about telecom companies, which - if they're anything like the companies in the US (Verizon, AT&T, Sprint) - are unbelievably arrogant and treat their customers like complete sh*t...basically give them garbage service and tell them they should feel lucky to even have that.
However arrogant Apple may be in its treatment of the telecoms, it can't possibly be as arrogant as they actually deserve.
Bingo. Telcos and Movie/TV/Music companies are the worst of the worst, IMO.
I hope Apple gives (or continues to give) all of them a swift kick up the shaft.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenatek
The biggest problem with Canada is the cost of Data transfer. One of the main features of the phone will be useless unless we get some reasonable data transfer rates here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the cool gut
++
I haven't upgraded my Blackberry in 4 fucking years, because the new ones really don't offer anything extra. Cell phone development is fucking rediculous, and it's all because the Carriers tell the handset makers what to do. The iPhone has changed the game, and now handset makers are going to need more leeway to compete, so of course the carriers are going to have a hissy fit.
In a lot of countries the bloody data costs is a real shafter (my favourite word today, can you tell? )
making a multi function device is all about compromise
you aren't gonna get the best camera or video capabilities - you might not get the best web browsing experience - you might not get all the features of a regular phone - you might not get all the best in music and media playing capabilities - you might not get the best keyboard or UI
but the closest to the right mix you get then the better the product will be
there are some technological shortcoming when it comes to certain features like the camera when compared to other phones. But these other phones' main feature is having a really good camera. Apple went for a mainstream device that's good enough for most people. Remember photos need to be sent and stored...
this brings me to mms - this is one of those features which phone carriers introduce to try and get more coin from their customers. After a few fiddles and excitement the novelty wears off and it's rarely used esp when compared to txt SMS and regular phone. Personally i prefer transferring pictures to my comp via bluetooth then mailing them.
Apple's Iphone has excellent email and web abilities which will make up for mms - more people out there have email than mms...
3G - again another technology which carriers are desperate to sell to make more money but in truth at the moment lacks any sort of great incentive for consumers. A device like the iphone would drive sales for the 3g operators.
and yes europe is a different beast with different laws and a different mindset. Prepaid top up card systems are the preferred method of the average consumer but let's admit it - this phone isn't for the average consumer (yet). Most businessmen and persons who can pony up the cash will have contracts or will be willing to get a contract. I think the ost apple could do would be to offer exclusivity but I'm not sure bout the ue regulations in this regard. They found issues with itunes and the ipod...
might be time for apple to use some of its cash and buy up a european telco...
Ditto. I hope the same thing happens in asia. I haven't owned a phone with a contract for years.
But the biggest issue really is: It needs 3G and it needs MMS support. Until that happeneds it won't sell in Europe or Asia.
Agreed! Loads of people I know use MMS in the UK and more importantly, not just young people. I can't see how excluding 3G/MMS is going to help Apple over here because this technology is ubiquitous and taken for granted by many people.
This should be interesting on a broader mega-scale. Europe (and the rest of the world) enjoyng the recent cuff of American hiccups and until now there has not been a recent paradigm of sufficient scale to simplify the line of demarcation between Yankee know-how and the "come-uppance" factor relished by her foes.
Now we have Apple, an unbelievably arrogant (read that American) company who dares to come onto foreign soil and strike the former posture of the Ugly American visiting overseas, insisting everyone speak English.
I had to chuckle at the words ". . . no matter how 'hot' the product" - as if Sony or Erikson or anyone else could leap frog Apple (read that American) technology and offer a reasonable alternative.
No, I am afraid these so-called European operators are about to get a good dose of the very thing they and their ilk have never understood - hegemony has its good aspects as well as its bad. And it takes a good businessman to know the difference and capitalize on the oportunity when his competition is still saying how Apple's demands "simply cannot be justified."
Its either this or just another example where the rest of the world will bite off its nose to spite its face, being iPhoneless - and we who were born on soil outside the U.S. wil once again have our noses pressed up against the candy store window, telling ourselves that we are doing just fine.
Actually, I didn't miss those! (They're really quite butt-ugly, but I suppose that is a matter of personal aesthetic preference.) And, like the iPhone, they have not been made available yet. Unlike the iPhone, they're all expected to be available only much later this year.
Technologically, if you are (or someone you know is) in the market for a decent digital camera, you may want to graduate from mobile phones and check out some fairly inexpensive double-digit MP models that have been recently introduced, e.g. the 12.1 or 10.5 MP from: http://exilim.casio.com/ (the latter can be had for the equivalent of about GBP125 in the US).
Trying to shore up your argument by shifting target to aesthetics wont work.
I disagree with you - comprehensively. I see more and more people using their camera phones, not dedicated cameras. The vast majority of people who take photos take what you would call 'snaps'. Shots that are like a visual diary entry - just look at Flickr - millions, and millions of the things. Only a small % take photos for the sake of image quality or aesthetic. I would include myself in this category so I already own a decent film camera. I don't need a 10+ MP camera - but a go anywhere, always with me, 5MP camera phone has me drooling and makes huge sense. You should be able to get a decent 5x7 print from it!
Serious photographers won't be interested in the Casio you have suggested and snapshooters will see a 5MP camera phone as all they need and oh so handy - as will photographers who want something that's always to hand.
Apples constant refusal to bow to mediocrity is not arrogance, as you have suggested. If the mealy mouthed, face is everything, Asian market can't see that and doesn't appreciate the difference - tough!
But if the iPhone becomes regarded as seriously cool after it's release, the ultra face/hip/cool/techie/status conscious youth of Asia will be all over it like flies on road kill - perceived arrogance or not.
This should be interesting on a broader mega-scale. Europe (and the rest of the world) enjoyng the recent cuff of American hiccups and until now there has not been a recent paradigm of sufficient scale to simplify the line of demarcation between Yankee know-how and the "come-uppance" factor relished by her foes.
Now we have Apple, an unbelievably arrogant (read that American) company who dares to come onto foreign soil and strike the former posture of the Ugly American visiting overseas, insisting everyone speak English.
I had to chuckle at the words ". . . no matter how 'hot' the product" - as if Sony or Erikson or anyone else could leap frog Apple (read that American) technology and offer a reasonable alternative.
No, I am afraid these so-called European operators are about to get a good dose of the very thing they and their ilk have never understood - hegemony has its good aspects as well as its bad. And it takes a good businessman to know the difference and capitalize on the oportunity when his competition is still saying how Apple's demands "simply cannot be justified."
Its either this or just another example where the rest of the world will bite off its nose to spite its face, being iPhoneless - and we who were born on soil outside the U.S. wil once again have our noses pressed up against the candy store window, telling ourselves that we are doing just fine.
Interesting points. In the New Asia I it seems to be now: We just pick and choose what we like from wherever, whatever. It may be some ra-ra-ra US rules Transformers movie, whatever, and then JPop blaring on the speakers at home. All while texting furiously before going into the Cinema on a Samsung, or Nokia, or one of those other Scandinavian things like Sony Ericsson (spelt as such, thank you very much, not Erikson ) ...Then off to school to learn British English, then after that the Internet Cafe for some Counter Strike or maybe a Chinese, Taiwanese or Korean MMORPG.
Serious photographers won't be interested in the Casio you have suggested and snapshooters will see a 5MP camera phone as all they need and oh so handy - as will photographers who want something that's always to hand.
Word. I am so *over* SLR still cameras as a separate thing to lug around. I'd rather a video camera, HD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui
Apples constant refusal to bow to mediocrity is not arrogance, as you have suggested. If the mealy mouthed, face is everything, Asian market can't see that and doesn't appreciate the difference - tough! ...
Asia is a massive and complex place. Tons of people have been asking about the iPhone at our shop. And the sales dudes sold a few MacBookPros to non-video/photo people - more a luxury item kind of thing, agreed... The mentality is changing though, people are sick of the Windows cheapo pile of bollocks and are looking at the Mac, usually from word of mouth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui
But if the iPhone becomes regarded as seriously cool after it's release, the ultra face/hip/cool/techie/status conscious youth of Asia will be all over it like flies on road kill - perceived arrogance or not.
Most definitely. In Asia status symbols are important. Lui V. iPhone. Luckily for us, Apple is something that is both ultracool now, and also, OMFG, really enhancing our lives positively (IMHO at least )
Comments
My widget says that being arrogant is having an exaggerated sense of one's own abilities or importance.
I bring this up only because I've grown weary of Apple and Steve Job's specifically being labeled as "arrogant". I've been using Macs and PC's for 23 years and it's my belief that Apple has no clue whatsoever as to how good they really are. Their products have been one of the few rays of light in the sometimes living hell we call technology. Given the power of the technology employed their ease of use is under and not overstated. Consider the integration of iTunes, the iTunes store and the iPod. It's like Bill Gates said at the D4 conference; "Apples ability to develop new and compelling products is almost magical". (or something to that effect)
If Apple had bothered to produce a video tape player you can bet there wouldn't have been all those incorrect times flashing all over the world.
Nope...not arrogant...competent. Is that what pisses off all the pundits? Competence? Seems a sad state of affairs to me.
"All that said, I truly wish Apple would tone down its arrogance."
My widget says that being arrogant is having an exaggerated sense of one's own abilities or importance.
I bring this up only because I've grown weary of Apple and Steve Job's specifically being labeled as "arrogant". I've been using Macs and PC's for 23 years and it's my belief that Apple has no clue whatsoever as to how good they really are. Their products have been one of the few rays of light in the sometimes living hell we call technology. Given the power of the technology employed their ease of use is under and not overstated. Consider the integration of iTunes, the iTunes store and the iPod. It's like Bill Gates said at the D4 conference; "Apples ability to develop new and compelling products is almost magical". (or something to that effect)
If Apple had bothered to produce a video tape player you can bet there wouldn't have been all those incorrect times flashing all over the world.
Nope...not arrogant...competent. Is that what pisses off all the pundits? Competence? Seems a sad state of affairs to me.
I don't know about your widget, but a site that I use all the time -- thesaurus.com (which has a great dictionary section too, btw) -- says it all for me:
--------------
Main Entry: \t arrogant
Part of Speech: \tadjective
Definition: \t egotistic
Synonyms: aloof, assuming, audacious, autocratic, biggety*, bossy, bragging, cavalier, cheeky, cocky, cold shoulder, conceited, contemptuous, cool*, disdainful, domineering, ego trip, egotistic, haughty, high-handed, imperious, insolent, know-it-all*, lordly, overbearing, peremptory, pompous, presumptuous, pretentious, proud, puffed up*, scornful, self-important, smarty, smug, sniffy*, snippy*, snooty*, snotty*, stuck up*, supercilious, superior, swaggering, uppity*, vain
Antonyms: \thumble, modest, self-effacing, unconceited
Source: \tRoget's New Millennium? Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.3.1) Copyright © 2007 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.
* = informal or slang
--------------
Look, I am the biggest Apple and SJ fan (altho, I may not sound that way 110% of the time). But, there are times when, at least out of some modicum of intellectual honesty, one has to call a spade a spade.
Looks like Orange dont want 2 year contracts. It must be over pricing.
I don't think any of the carriers in Europe would even dare offer 2 year contracts. 18months max.
I'd be careful with what this analyst has said. Orange and Vodafone in particular usually insist that phones have their software installed. Orange completely screwed the SE P990i launch last year with it's buggy software which took up too much RAM, replaced the front screen with their corporate Orange icons and removed features like the RSS reader. Vodafone usually inflicts 'Vodafone Live!' on their phones. Both of them have recently started disabling features on Nokia's phones such as disabling VOIP on the N/E series phones. That's a fairly new trend and not a good one.
It may not be Apple making demands here, it may be Apple refusing to let the phone companies mess with the iPhone software or features.
On the other hand, if Apple are talking to Vodafone and Orange, the two demands that they should be making other than "Don't mess with teh iPhone software" is for the carriers to implement Visual Voicemail and that they have to sell it with a decent data plan or it will tank.
IMHO the only carrier in the UK where the iPhone makes sense is T-Mobile because they're the only ones with a cheap data plan.
It might seem bizarre that Europe's phone carriers aren't bending over backwards for Apple but when you've got Nokia N95s, SE W910/960/P1i and even the Moto Z8 in your list of available phones that fit your market better, why add a 2G phone with a shit camera and no money grabbing 3G services?
.....why add a 2G phone with a shit camera ......
I recall that a few weeks ago, on the topic of how sophisticated the iPhone is, you sounded like the arbiter of Europe vs. USA's technological savvy-ness. The latter, you claimed (I am paraphrasing) are tech luddites. (I am happy to locate that comment and cut-and-paste if you wish).
If your claim is that the Europeans' idea of a non-'shit camera' (sic) is found on a mobile phone (yeah, you can forget the recent N95 and equivalents that almost no one owns yet), then, either you have a pretty piss-poor view of your compatriots' tech savvy-ness, or you are somewhat clueless in indulging in such sweeping judgments.
I recall that a few weeks ago, on the topic of how sophisticated the iPhone is, you sounded like the arbiter of Europe vs. USA's technological savvy-ness. The latter, you claimed (I am paraphrasing) are tech luddites. (I am happy to locate that comment and cut-and-paste if you wish).
If your claim is that the Europeans' idea of a non-'shit camera' (sic) is found on a mobile phone (yeah, you can forget the recent N95 and equivalents that almost no one owns yet), then, either you have a pretty piss-poor view of your compatriots' tech savvy-ness, or you are somewhat clueless in indulging in such sweeping judgments.
Did you miss these a couple of days ago... ?
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/0...hers-official/
That's the back of the mid range K850. MID RANGE!
Did you miss these a couple of days ago... ?
Actually, I didn't miss those! (They're really quite butt-ugly, but I suppose that is a matter of personal aesthetic preference.) And, like the iPhone, they have not been made available yet. Unlike the iPhone, they're all expected to be available only much later this year.
Technologically, if you are (or someone you know is) in the market for a decent digital camera, you may want to graduate from mobile phones and check out some fairly inexpensive double-digit MP models that have been recently introduced, e.g. the 12.1 or 10.5 MP from: http://exilim.casio.com/ (the latter can be had for the equivalent of about GBP125 in the US).
Actually, I didn't miss those! (They're really quite butt-ugly, but I suppose that is a matter of personal aesthetic preference.)
I think that's actually more a continental thing although I'm with you on SE's buttons on some of the new phones.
And, like the iPhone, they have not been made available yet. Unlike the iPhone, they're all expected to be available only much later this year.
They'll be out before the iPhone in Europe. See the thread title. The 3.2mp K800 has been out a couple of years now. Wifi and 3G phones 3-4 years at least. Someone mentioned earlier the iPhone changes the game whilst clearly, technically it's old technology on the hardware front. It's all about the software as far as I'm concerned.
Technologically, if you are (or someone you know is) in the market for a decent digital camera, you may want to graduate from mobile phones and check out some fairly inexpensive double-digit MP models that have been recently introduced, e.g. the 12.1 or 10.5 MP from: http://exilim.casio.com/ (the latter can be had for the equivalent of about GBP125 in the US).
A Casio? No bloody way. Calculators yes, cameras, no.
The point I'm making is people aren't graduating from phones to cameras, they're doing the reverse now that phones are good enough for many people. If you go to a wedding or something like that here in the UK, I'd say 70% of people are snapping on phones, not cameras.
And then they're MMSing the pictures to their friends over 3G. Hmmm.
T-Mobile is actually the one US carrier that has openly embraced and supported Wifi (due to their Hotspots service) and has more Wifi enabled handsets than anyone. They also have the least crippled phone/devices of the big four IMHO. Now Verizon on the other hand limits just about *everything* you can do with your own phone, with Sprint being a close second.
No, Sprint is actually pretty good. I can use my Treo as a modem for a portable, if I wanted to. There are other services that I could use as well.
But, it's up to the cell companies to use their networks as they see fit.
It's not so simple.
I'm talking about designing the actual phone. Phone makers need to submit their phones to carriers for approval, and carriers tell them what features they want the phone to have ect. and so forth. For example, this is one reason why you would never see wifi in a phone, because carriers want you to pay for a data plan.
Then why is there a bunch of phones with WiFi?
LOL, you beat me to it.
Damnit! You BOTH beat me to it. Too bad I didn't see your posts before I responded.
Kodak stock just hit a 52 week high??? Coincidence? I don't think so. And Steve Jobs has been awfully quiet on the camera capability.
Oh, yea and will it record full motion video? How about recording HD 720p 30 frame HD video. That would be sweet.
Come on, you don't really think the world's coolest new phone will have just a mere mortal camera in it, do you?
Hmmmmmmm.
Okay, in the tradition of wild iPhone speculation... What if the new iPhone were to use the newly announced Kodak camera phone sensor that is supposed to be so sensitive to light that you don't need flash?
Kodak stock just hit a 52 week high??? Coincidence? I don't think so. And Steve Jobs has been awfully quiet on the camera capability.
Oh, yea and will it record full motion video? How about recording HD 720p 30 frame HD video. That would be sweet.
Come on, you don't really think the world's coolest new phone will have just a mere mortal camera in it, do you?
Hmmmmmmm.
Oh, please!
If any of that were true, Jobs would have jumped on announcing it.
does retail only mean apple becoming a virtual operator or simply selling iphones on no network for you to put your own sim in?
orange are a lousy operator by all accounts so as long as its not exclusively apples and oranges it should be ok.
if it was Voda or T Mobile I'd be happy. Used to support O2 util in typical british business man short signted ness they sold out. - and yes i am british, and i notice how the best run biritsh companies have foreign ceo's
Agreed Orange/Hutchinson/Three sucks bollocks big time.
Retail means full unlocked, I gather. If that happens you can see a FUCKLOAD (since everyone is swearing on this thread, heh) of grey imports into Asia from Europe. And back into USA (possibly).
I don't understand why, in the first place, Apple needs a telecom service partner in Europe. It's not like the US, where the service providers are gatekeepers between the handset provider and the customer. I always figured that, in Europe, someone who is interested could just buy one retail (and unlocked), and take it to any provider to get a service (unless there is a discount, which Apple does not seem to want to agree to).
I think not having a partner may become more of an issue a couple of years down the road. However, if and when its numbers grow, the service providers will find it in their interest to deal with Apple.
All that said, I truly wish Apple would tone down its arrogance. That is the kind of thing that could truly destroy the company in the long run, regardless of how cool it is (or thinks it is). This attitude -- often attributed to US companies -- simply does not fly in Europe and Asia. (If they can't tone it down, they shouldn't even bother trying to enter those markets).
Fair points. If Apple had rubbish products then their arrogance would cripple them.
If we were talking about actual end users, then I would agree. But we're talking about telecom companies, which - if they're anything like the companies in the US (Verizon, AT&T, Sprint) - are unbelievably arrogant and treat their customers like complete sh*t...basically give them garbage service and tell them they should feel lucky to even have that.
However arrogant Apple may be in its treatment of the telecoms, it can't possibly be as arrogant as they actually deserve.
Bingo. Telcos and Movie/TV/Music companies are the worst of the worst, IMO.
I hope Apple gives (or continues to give) all of them a swift kick up the shaft.
The biggest problem with Canada is the cost of Data transfer. One of the main features of the phone will be useless unless we get some reasonable data transfer rates here.
++
I haven't upgraded my Blackberry in 4 fucking years, because the new ones really don't offer anything extra. Cell phone development is fucking rediculous, and it's all because the Carriers tell the handset makers what to do. The iPhone has changed the game, and now handset makers are going to need more leeway to compete, so of course the carriers are going to have a hissy fit.
In a lot of countries the bloody data costs is a real shafter (my favourite word today, can you tell?
Did you miss these a couple of days ago... ?
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/0...hers-official/
........
That's the back of the mid range K850. MID RANGE!
Sexaay, but I am over still cameras.
This canon HDV looks like it will RAWK.
http://www.videomaker.com/article/13252/
you aren't gonna get the best camera or video capabilities - you might not get the best web browsing experience - you might not get all the features of a regular phone - you might not get all the best in music and media playing capabilities - you might not get the best keyboard or UI
but the closest to the right mix you get then the better the product will be
there are some technological shortcoming when it comes to certain features like the camera when compared to other phones. But these other phones' main feature is having a really good camera. Apple went for a mainstream device that's good enough for most people. Remember photos need to be sent and stored...
this brings me to mms - this is one of those features which phone carriers introduce to try and get more coin from their customers. After a few fiddles and excitement the novelty wears off and it's rarely used esp when compared to txt SMS and regular phone. Personally i prefer transferring pictures to my comp via bluetooth then mailing them.
Apple's Iphone has excellent email and web abilities which will make up for mms - more people out there have email than mms...
3G - again another technology which carriers are desperate to sell to make more money but in truth at the moment lacks any sort of great incentive for consumers. A device like the iphone would drive sales for the 3g operators.
and yes europe is a different beast with different laws and a different mindset. Prepaid top up card systems are the preferred method of the average consumer but let's admit it - this phone isn't for the average consumer (yet). Most businessmen and persons who can pony up the cash will have contracts or will be willing to get a contract. I think the ost apple could do would be to offer exclusivity but I'm not sure bout the ue regulations in this regard. They found issues with itunes and the ipod...
might be time for apple to use some of its cash and buy up a european telco...
[/end mindless drivel]
Ditto. I hope the same thing happens in asia. I haven't owned a phone with a contract for years.
But the biggest issue really is: It needs 3G and it needs MMS support. Until that happeneds it won't sell in Europe or Asia.
Agreed! Loads of people I know use MMS in the UK and more importantly, not just young people. I can't see how excluding 3G/MMS is going to help Apple over here because this technology is ubiquitous and taken for granted by many people.
Now we have Apple, an unbelievably arrogant (read that American) company who dares to come onto foreign soil and strike the former posture of the Ugly American visiting overseas, insisting everyone speak English.
I had to chuckle at the words ". . . no matter how 'hot' the product" - as if Sony or Erikson or anyone else could leap frog Apple (read that American) technology and offer a reasonable alternative.
No, I am afraid these so-called European operators are about to get a good dose of the very thing they and their ilk have never understood - hegemony has its good aspects as well as its bad. And it takes a good businessman to know the difference and capitalize on the oportunity when his competition is still saying how Apple's demands "simply cannot be justified."
Its either this or just another example where the rest of the world will bite off its nose to spite its face, being iPhoneless - and we who were born on soil outside the U.S. wil once again have our noses pressed up against the candy store window, telling ourselves that we are doing just fine.
Actually, I didn't miss those! (They're really quite butt-ugly, but I suppose that is a matter of personal aesthetic preference.) And, like the iPhone, they have not been made available yet. Unlike the iPhone, they're all expected to be available only much later this year.
Technologically, if you are (or someone you know is) in the market for a decent digital camera, you may want to graduate from mobile phones and check out some fairly inexpensive double-digit MP models that have been recently introduced, e.g. the 12.1 or 10.5 MP from: http://exilim.casio.com/ (the latter can be had for the equivalent of about GBP125 in the US).
Trying to shore up your argument by shifting target to aesthetics wont work.
I disagree with you - comprehensively. I see more and more people using their camera phones, not dedicated cameras. The vast majority of people who take photos take what you would call 'snaps'. Shots that are like a visual diary entry - just look at Flickr - millions, and millions of the things. Only a small % take photos for the sake of image quality or aesthetic. I would include myself in this category so I already own a decent film camera. I don't need a 10+ MP camera - but a go anywhere, always with me, 5MP camera phone has me drooling and makes huge sense. You should be able to get a decent 5x7 print from it!
Serious photographers won't be interested in the Casio you have suggested and snapshooters will see a 5MP camera phone as all they need and oh so handy - as will photographers who want something that's always to hand.
Apples constant refusal to bow to mediocrity is not arrogance, as you have suggested. If the mealy mouthed, face is everything, Asian market can't see that and doesn't appreciate the difference - tough!
But if the iPhone becomes regarded as seriously cool after it's release, the ultra face/hip/cool/techie/status conscious youth of Asia will be all over it like flies on road kill - perceived arrogance or not.
This should be interesting on a broader mega-scale. Europe (and the rest of the world) enjoyng the recent cuff of American hiccups and until now there has not been a recent paradigm of sufficient scale to simplify the line of demarcation between Yankee know-how and the "come-uppance" factor relished by her foes.
Now we have Apple, an unbelievably arrogant (read that American) company who dares to come onto foreign soil and strike the former posture of the Ugly American visiting overseas, insisting everyone speak English.
I had to chuckle at the words ". . . no matter how 'hot' the product" - as if Sony or Erikson or anyone else could leap frog Apple (read that American) technology and offer a reasonable alternative.
No, I am afraid these so-called European operators are about to get a good dose of the very thing they and their ilk have never understood - hegemony has its good aspects as well as its bad. And it takes a good businessman to know the difference and capitalize on the oportunity when his competition is still saying how Apple's demands "simply cannot be justified."
Its either this or just another example where the rest of the world will bite off its nose to spite its face, being iPhoneless - and we who were born on soil outside the U.S. wil once again have our noses pressed up against the candy store window, telling ourselves that we are doing just fine.
Interesting points. In the New Asia I it seems to be now: We just pick and choose what we like from wherever, whatever. It may be some ra-ra-ra US rules Transformers movie, whatever, and then JPop blaring on the speakers at home. All while texting furiously before going into the Cinema on a Samsung, or Nokia, or one of those other Scandinavian things like Sony Ericsson (spelt as such, thank you very much, not Erikson
Serious photographers won't be interested in the Casio you have suggested and snapshooters will see a 5MP camera phone as all they need and oh so handy - as will photographers who want something that's always to hand.
Word. I am so *over* SLR still cameras as a separate thing to lug around. I'd rather a video camera, HD.
Apples constant refusal to bow to mediocrity is not arrogance, as you have suggested. If the mealy mouthed, face is everything, Asian market can't see that and doesn't appreciate the difference - tough! ...
Asia is a massive and complex place. Tons of people have been asking about the iPhone at our shop. And the sales dudes sold a few MacBookPros to non-video/photo people - more a luxury item kind of thing, agreed... The mentality is changing though, people are sick of the Windows cheapo pile of bollocks and are looking at the Mac, usually from word of mouth.
But if the iPhone becomes regarded as seriously cool after it's release, the ultra face/hip/cool/techie/status conscious youth of Asia will be all over it like flies on road kill - perceived arrogance or not.
Most definitely.