Fundamentally, I think that Apple's desktop sales will suffer as long as they don't use desktop chips. The Q6600 and the Q6700 as well as the Q4 Barcelona/Phenom launch will mean that by Jan of 2008, every desktop over about $1000 will be a quad-core or a high-speed (>=2.8 GHz) dual-core. If Apple's still using laptop chips in the Mac Mini and the iMac, then they'll be selling $1200 - $1600 computers with 2.4-2.6 GHz dual-core processors that'll simply get crushed by the competition.
THAT IS SO TRUE!
There are already Q6600 desktops in the $900-$1500 range (bundled with 19 to 22" LCDs) from Acer and HP and certainly others I don't know. Those chips are sick! Inexpensive, powerful, praised by all reviewers. I really hope Apple will make good use of them.
I understand they have this AIO concept so strongly intrenched, and I hope that the new 20/24" iMacs get MacBook Pro-like specs (all of them, Santa Rosa, 2.2/2.4GHz, 2GB RAM, 8600GT GPU, FW400+800, even an Expresscard slot) so they would be more attractive (especially if in the $1299-1999 price range).
But if the Mac mini and the 17' iMac are to be gone, please use what's appropriate to entry level/midrange computers. Given the price of E6000/Q6000 chips and chipsets like the G33, Apple could certainly offer a triplet of models in the $499-1299 range!
Moving the iMacs to those heights and releasing new desktops (with new chips, chipset, enclosure) will certainly affect margins, but that's what they forecated for this quarter, isn't it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur
Hope the new iMacs look as good as the Sony Desktop Vaio All-in-one.
I agree. I also believe Apple has something else planned for desktops, what, I don't know.
My personal thoughts/preference? If the iMac became a lighter-powered convertable. That's right, a desktop-to-portable unit.
There are two ways I could envision this working:
Option A: Give it a "base station" with a nice GPU, HDD, extra RAM, USB ports (for keyboard, mouse and others), optical bay, and a PSU, all sitting on a nice clear acryllic stand. The display detaches (and becomes multi-touch capable (which would obviously not be viable for a 20-24" screen)), the unit complete with mo-board (using integrated graphics), some RAM, 16GB SSD (enough for OSX and some free space), Wi-Fi, and a battery for a good 5 hours of detached life. A good ol' tablet if you will.
Option B: Just a multi-touch detachable display (again, 17" or less), Wi-Fi, and a battery, loaded with enough guts to act as a "remote desktop" interface to the base station.
Out of the two choices, I'd say a bulkier desktop is more likely but I'd love, love, love to have Option B.
mmmmmmmmm detachable display....
Oh, and by the way, I would hunt down and obliterate Johny Ive if he ruined the iMac's keyboard by making it Chicklet-Style. Seriously, there would be a rampage... and then I would buy a 3rd party keyboard.
I've thought about this a little as well. It might make some sense to make the iMac a "portfolio" computer... folds into a compact, easy to carry structure (might even have some hidden when not in use carbon fiber luggage or appliance-like styling touches) that would loosely resemble an artists portfolio case. Perhaps there could be a butterfly cover mechanism on the back of the monitor that would double for keyboard storage... Just thinking out loud.
I've thought about this a little as well. It might make some sense to make the iMac a "portfolio" computer... folds into a compact, easy to carry structure (might even have some hidden when not in use carbon fiber luggage or appliance-like styling touches) that would loosely resemble an artists portfolio case. Perhaps there could be a butterfly cover mechanism on the back of the monitor that would double for keyboard storage... Just thinking out loud.
People really have little need to move their desktops around. Even a 20" iMac is pushing 18 pounds.
So, you want to move it to another room? No problem for the current models.
People really have little need to move their desktops around. Even a 20" iMac is pushing 18 pounds.
So, you want to move it to another room? No problem for the current models.
You want to take it out of the house?
Get a 17" MBP.
If we're going to see a radically new, or at least "evolutionary" iMac next week, I would assume we'll see a thinner and lighter form factor. Also, for me personally, I don't like portables. Having keyboard position permanently tied to the monitor is a pain in the neck, and I don't like the feel of any of the portable keyboards. Call me old school.
If we're going to see a radically new, or at least "evolutionary" iMac next week, I would assume we'll see a thinner and lighter form factor. Also, for me personally, I don't like portables. Having keyboard position permanently tied to the monitor is a pain in the neck, and I don't like the feel of any of the portable keyboards. Call me old school.
I happen to agree with you.
We have four working Macs in the house on the network, and I'm thinking of using another one for shop tasks.
But, carrying around an iMac, even if it does weigh a pound or two less than the current ones, isn't much of an option for those who really do need portable computing. It's tough to use without a wall outlet.
I'd like a true ultra portable to carry around for use when I'm going somewhere, or sitting in the park relaxing, or some such activity.
You THINK you wouldn't mind. What you would do with a 16 pound 20" machine is an entirely different thing.
Don't count on the multi-Touch yet. I'd like to see it, but I don't see it right now, though it would be great if it did appear.
You're probably right on the weight although I can tell you from experience I can haul more than a MBP around. The client I am thinking about has a short walk from car to office. For other clients, maybe with the money saved over a MBP, I could buy the Apple" hand truck" whenever it comes out
Agreed on the mutli-touch. Just throwing in a little wishful thinking there.
They're going to announce the discontinuation of the Mac Mini.
However the recently leaked photos of the thin keyboard are not for the iMac but for a new Mac Pro Cube, basically a Mac Pro but without the expandability and inside a small six-inch cube, powerful enough for gaming and just in time for back-to-school, with a $699 pricetag.
You're probably right on the weight although I can tell you from experience I can haul more than a MBP around. The client I am thinking about has a short walk from car to office. For other clients, maybe with the money saved over a MBP, I could buy the Apple" hand truck" whenever it comes out
Agreed on the mutli-touch. Just throwing in a little wishful thinking there.
My anti-gravity plate is a much better idea, and is also much closer to production.
Keep dreaming iNtel. I think the only $999 model will be the old iMac design with a combo drive, and the other two or three models will be the new design in 20 or 24 inches sizes all with Superdrives.
Boredom probably. I'd rather just make a cup of tea wait until Tuesday myself
I like reading predictions. It's a good gauge between what people want in a Mac, and what they think Apple will actually release. It's like a half n half. Half what they want, and half what they think. Mine always are. If I could design my dream Mac Pro, spec wise, it would be far beyond what I actually think Apple will release, but it would be on par, option wise, with an Alienware, or BOXX chassis.
I like reading predictions. It's a good gauge between what people want in a Mac, and what they think Apple will actually release. It's like a half n half. Half what they want, and half what they think. Mine always are. If I could design my dream Mac Pro, spec wise, it would be far beyond what I actually think Apple will release, but it would be on par, option wise, with an Alienware, or BOXX chassis.
And would cost much more, which is why you will never see it. The Alienware and BOXX designs that have the "extra's cost much more than the Mac Pro. I looked.
But, it does get tiring to see these posts with a half dozen listings of "who cares" guesses.
It's another thing when someone posts several ideas for one machine.
And would cost much more, which is why you will never see it. The Alienware and BOXX designs that have the "extra's cost much more than the Mac Pro. I looked.
But, it does get tiring to see these posts with a half dozen listings of "who cares" guesses.
It's another thing when someone posts several ideas for one machine.
I don't mean all that stuff that Alienware has on their site, but the stuff that has been industry standard for 3, 4 years that Apple still doesn't have. Like 2x full speed 16x PCI-E lanes, and better graphics card options. That's all I can think of. I am so far behind because Apple has been so far behind for so long I don't even know what technologies the industry, and consumers are all hyped about any more.
Comments
Fundamentally, I think that Apple's desktop sales will suffer as long as they don't use desktop chips. The Q6600 and the Q6700 as well as the Q4 Barcelona/Phenom launch will mean that by Jan of 2008, every desktop over about $1000 will be a quad-core or a high-speed (>=2.8 GHz) dual-core. If Apple's still using laptop chips in the Mac Mini and the iMac, then they'll be selling $1200 - $1600 computers with 2.4-2.6 GHz dual-core processors that'll simply get crushed by the competition.
THAT IS SO TRUE!
There are already Q6600 desktops in the $900-$1500 range (bundled with 19 to 22" LCDs) from Acer and HP and certainly others I don't know. Those chips are sick! Inexpensive, powerful, praised by all reviewers. I really hope Apple will make good use of them.
I understand they have this AIO concept so strongly intrenched, and I hope that the new 20/24" iMacs get MacBook Pro-like specs (all of them, Santa Rosa, 2.2/2.4GHz, 2GB RAM, 8600GT GPU, FW400+800, even an Expresscard slot) so they would be more attractive (especially if in the $1299-1999 price range).
But if the Mac mini and the 17' iMac are to be gone, please use what's appropriate to entry level/midrange computers. Given the price of E6000/Q6000 chips and chipsets like the G33, Apple could certainly offer a triplet of models in the $499-1299 range!
Moving the iMacs to those heights and releasing new desktops (with new chips, chipset, enclosure) will certainly affect margins, but that's what they forecated for this quarter, isn't it?
Hope the new iMacs look as good as the Sony Desktop Vaio All-in-one
I hope they look better.
I agree. I also believe Apple has something else planned for desktops, what, I don't know.
My personal thoughts/preference? If the iMac became a lighter-powered convertable. That's right, a desktop-to-portable unit.
There are two ways I could envision this working:
Option A: Give it a "base station" with a nice GPU, HDD, extra RAM, USB ports (for keyboard, mouse and others), optical bay, and a PSU, all sitting on a nice clear acryllic stand. The display detaches (and becomes multi-touch capable (which would obviously not be viable for a 20-24" screen)), the unit complete with mo-board (using integrated graphics), some RAM, 16GB SSD (enough for OSX and some free space), Wi-Fi, and a battery for a good 5 hours of detached life. A good ol' tablet if you will.
Option B: Just a multi-touch detachable display (again, 17" or less), Wi-Fi, and a battery, loaded with enough guts to act as a "remote desktop" interface to the base station.
Out of the two choices, I'd say a bulkier desktop is more likely but I'd love, love, love to have Option B.
mmmmmmmmm detachable display....
Oh, and by the way, I would hunt down and obliterate Johny Ive if he ruined the iMac's keyboard by making it Chicklet-Style. Seriously, there would be a rampage... and then I would buy a 3rd party keyboard.
-Clive
I've thought about this a little as well. It might make some sense to make the iMac a "portfolio" computer... folds into a compact, easy to carry structure (might even have some hidden when not in use carbon fiber luggage or appliance-like styling touches) that would loosely resemble an artists portfolio case. Perhaps there could be a butterfly cover mechanism on the back of the monitor that would double for keyboard storage... Just thinking out loud.
People really have little need to move their desktops around. Even a 20" iMac is pushing 18 pounds.
So, you want to move it to another room? No problem for the current models.
You want to take it out of the house?
Get a 17" MBP.
People really have little need to move their desktops around. Even a 20" iMac is pushing 18 pounds.
So, you want to move it to another room? No problem for the current models.
You want to take it out of the house?
Get a 17" MBP.
If we're going to see a radically new, or at least "evolutionary" iMac next week, I would assume we'll see a thinner and lighter form factor. Also, for me personally, I don't like portables. Having keyboard position permanently tied to the monitor is a pain in the neck, and I don't like the feel of any of the portable keyboards. Call me old school.
People really have little need to move their desktops around. Even a 20" iMac is pushing 18 pounds.
So, you want to move it to another room? No problem for the current models.
You want to take it out of the house?
Get a 17" MBP.
I don't know. A thinner iMac, smaller keyboard, MUCH cheaper than MBP. I could get use to lugging that to a client's office.
.. And if they did have a touch screen I wouldn't have to get so mad when the client puts his greasy fingers on the screen.
If we're going to see a radically new, or at least "evolutionary" iMac next week, I would assume we'll see a thinner and lighter form factor. Also, for me personally, I don't like portables. Having keyboard position permanently tied to the monitor is a pain in the neck, and I don't like the feel of any of the portable keyboards. Call me old school.
I happen to agree with you.
We have four working Macs in the house on the network, and I'm thinking of using another one for shop tasks.
But, carrying around an iMac, even if it does weigh a pound or two less than the current ones, isn't much of an option for those who really do need portable computing. It's tough to use without a wall outlet.
I'd like a true ultra portable to carry around for use when I'm going somewhere, or sitting in the park relaxing, or some such activity.
I don't know. A thinner iMac, smaller keyboard, MUCH cheaper than MBP. I could get use to lugging that to a client's office.
.. And if they did have a touch screen I wouldn't have to get so mad when the client puts his greasy fingers on the screen.
You THINK you wouldn't mind. What you would do with a 16 pound 20" machine is an entirely different thing.
Don't count on the multi-Touch yet. I'd like to see it, but I don't see it right now, though it would be great if it did appear.
You THINK you wouldn't mind. What you would do with a 16 pound 20" machine is an entirely different thing.
Don't count on the multi-Touch yet. I'd like to see it, but I don't see it right now, though it would be great if it did appear.
You're probably right on the weight although I can tell you from experience I can haul more than a MBP around. The client I am thinking about has a short walk from car to office. For other clients, maybe with the money saved over a MBP, I could buy the Apple" hand truck" whenever it comes out
Agreed on the mutli-touch. Just throwing in a little wishful thinking there.
They're going to announce the discontinuation of the Mac Mini.
However the recently leaked photos of the thin keyboard are not for the iMac but for a new Mac Pro Cube, basically a Mac Pro but without the expandability and inside a small six-inch cube, powerful enough for gaming and just in time for back-to-school, with a $699 pricetag.
So in other words, its just a renamed Mac mini.
At any rate... I'm ready to make the leap into Intel... so I'll most likely get the new iMac.
Wait until iTuesday®
You're probably right on the weight although I can tell you from experience I can haul more than a MBP around. The client I am thinking about has a short walk from car to office. For other clients, maybe with the money saved over a MBP, I could buy the Apple" hand truck" whenever it comes out
Agreed on the mutli-touch. Just throwing in a little wishful thinking there.
My anti-gravity plate is a much better idea, and is also much closer to production.
-New iMacs
With new aluminum case, 1.3 MP iSight, slimmer profile without the "Jay Leno chin"
Four models:
$999
20" display
2.0 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo (Santa Rosa)
1 GB RAM
200 GB HD
Combo drive
Intel GMA3000 graphics
$1299
20" display
2.2 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2 GB RAM
200 GB HD
SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce 8600
$1499
24" display
2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2 GB RAM
400 GB HD
SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce 8600
$1999
24" display
2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4 GB RAM
750 GB HD
Blu-ray Disc drive
NVIDIA GeForce 8600
All models come with new slim aluminum keyboard and new, more clog-resistant aluminum Mighty Mouse
-12" MacBook Pro:
The world's slimmest, lightest full-featured notebook
One model:
1.6 GHz low-voltage Intel Core 2 Duo (Santa Rosa)
2 GB RAM
100 GB hard drive
SuperDrive
Intel GMA3000 graphics
12" LED-backlit widescreen
0.9" thick and under 3 pounds
$1799
My bets:
-New iMacs
With new aluminum case, 1.3 MP iSight, slimmer profile without the "Jay Leno chin"
Four models:
$999
20" display
2.0 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo (Santa Rosa)
1 GB RAM
200 GB HD
Combo drive
Intel GMA3000 graphics
$1299
20" display
2.2 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2 GB RAM
200 GB HD
SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce 8600
$1499
24" display
2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2 GB RAM
400 GB HD
SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce 8600
$1999
24" display
2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4 GB RAM
750 GB HD
Blu-ray Disc drive
NVIDIA GeForce 8600
All models come with new slim aluminum keyboard and new, more clog-resistant aluminum Mighty Mouse
-12" MacBook Pro:
The world's slimmest, lightest full-featured notebook
One model:
1.6 GHz low-voltage Intel Core 2 Duo (Santa Rosa)
2 GB RAM
100 GB hard drive
SuperDrive
Intel GMA3000 graphics
12" LED-backlit widescreen
0.9" thick and under 3 pounds
$1799
Why do people bother to do this?
Why do people bother to do this?
Boredom probably. I'd rather just make a cup of tea wait until Tuesday myself
Boredom probably. I'd rather just make a cup of tea wait until Tuesday myself
I like reading predictions. It's a good gauge between what people want in a Mac, and what they think Apple will actually release. It's like a half n half. Half what they want, and half what they think. Mine always are. If I could design my dream Mac Pro, spec wise, it would be far beyond what I actually think Apple will release, but it would be on par, option wise, with an Alienware, or BOXX chassis.
I like reading predictions. It's a good gauge between what people want in a Mac, and what they think Apple will actually release. It's like a half n half. Half what they want, and half what they think. Mine always are. If I could design my dream Mac Pro, spec wise, it would be far beyond what I actually think Apple will release, but it would be on par, option wise, with an Alienware, or BOXX chassis.
And would cost much more, which is why you will never see it. The Alienware and BOXX designs that have the "extra's cost much more than the Mac Pro. I looked.
But, it does get tiring to see these posts with a half dozen listings of "who cares" guesses.
It's another thing when someone posts several ideas for one machine.
And would cost much more, which is why you will never see it. The Alienware and BOXX designs that have the "extra's cost much more than the Mac Pro. I looked.
But, it does get tiring to see these posts with a half dozen listings of "who cares" guesses.
It's another thing when someone posts several ideas for one machine.
I don't mean all that stuff that Alienware has on their site, but the stuff that has been industry standard for 3, 4 years that Apple still doesn't have. Like 2x full speed 16x PCI-E lanes, and better graphics card options. That's all I can think of. I am so far behind because Apple has been so far behind for so long I don't even know what technologies the industry, and consumers are all hyped about any more.