Apple unveils iPod touch and iTunes Wi-Fi Music Store

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  • Reply 281 of 311
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,573member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Takeo View Post


    What do you mean? Sonos is available now.



    No, I'm obviously talking about the iTouch, which is what you keep pushing for this.
  • Reply 282 of 311
    takeotakeo Posts: 446member
  • Reply 283 of 311
    blipblip Posts: 23member
    I feel almost sorry for Takeo. Are some of you guys trying NOT to understand him? Like only reading every second word and filling in the blanks with your own? What's all the nitpicking about? He was even giving an existing *example* (i.e. the Sonos) of what he wanted to do with the iTouch and gets a
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    No, I'm obviously talking about the iTouch, which is what you keep pushing for this.



    in return. To qoute a certain CEO: "It boggles the mind." [that it's so hard to understand]



    Further, what's so incredibly hard to understand with this concept?



    1. I have a lot of music. Choosing songs etc when away from the computer would be nice but an Apple Remote won't do since forward/back won't suffice when choosing my Jazz playlist or a particular song.



    2. Why would I want a TV when I have a small WiFi-enabled screen in the iPod touch I can bring to whatever room I want? No, really. Why?



    Juding by internet forums/foras where conversations *often* (uttered with some carefulness) resemble spoken language Paul Grice would probably like to revise his maxims for the internet age and check that cooperative principle again.
  • Reply 284 of 311
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,870member
    I like Takeo's ideas. In fact, they've been suggested many times, on this forum no less, in the past. People have been hoping to see something like this for a while.



    I think Apple should do both: enable streaming straight from the iPod, but also enable it to work as a remote control for iTunes running on a Mac or PC. Then you could use PC/Mac + Airport Expresses + iPod touch as a Sonos equivalent, except it would be cheaper and have a cooler remote. Using the iPod just as remote instead of the streaming source would mean the iPod's battery would last longer.
  • Reply 285 of 311
    takeotakeo Posts: 446member
    Thanks guys.



    A few followups from research I've done.



    1. Sonos does not support Fairplay or Apple Lossless files. So anything you bought from the iTunes store won't work (unless you burn a CD and re-rip to get around Fairplay... not an option if you have 1000's of Fairplay songs). The Fairplay thing wouldn't affect me since 99.9% of my music library (close to 4000 songs) is ripped from my own CD's. I ripped it all to Apple Lossless... but I could convert everything (ugh). The reason for this is that Sonos does not use iTunes. It imports all of your music into it's own jukebox software. So you end up with two copies of your music library. This would lead to synchronization nightmares as well as take up twice as much HD space. Not cool at all!!! It's also really expensive. So as cool as Sonos is... the lack of iTunes integration (not to mention the price) is a complete deal killer for me.



    2. I researched a bunch of 3rd party bluetooth options yesterday. A few are just for wireless headphones but Belkin, Griffin and Logitech offer solutions that can hook up to a stereo system. Of those, the Belkin TuneStage II is clearly the best. It's the only one that uses Bluetooth 2.0. As a result, it has greater range (up to 100 ft), virtually no noise (the others all have noticeable noise according to reviews) and almost CD quality sound. The review I found said that 98% of people would not be able to tell the difference between a CD and a TuneStage streamed song.



    So... I either keep waiting for Apple to give us a bluetooth enabled iPod... or I finally buy my first iPod... the 160 GB classic (finally... an iPod big enough to hold my entire library in lossless format!!!!!!) and add the Belkin TuneStage II to it. As for battery life... the TuneStage transmitter uses the iPod for power... but with the new iPod Classic 160 offering 40 hours of playback... I'm not too worried about battery life.
  • Reply 286 of 311
    blipblip Posts: 23member
    One solution for control only is an app like Salling Clicker. Checking their forum it seems others are thinking the same. Works great on both my SE phone and my Dell Axim x50v (BT or WiFi - available for Palm as well), albeit not the "transparent" app as one would *hope* an iTouch dito would turn into (or compared to the Sonos, for that matter). Still, it's quite an amazing little app.



    Edit: I really do hope an iPod touch version will eventually turn up, though. Something like the TuneStage et al at least *feels* as if it would "only" be a piece of software away for the iTouch (If it's using WiFi, that is).
  • Reply 287 of 311
    just a bit offtopic from where the discussion is...

    but possibly way back on topic?



    I'm almost surprised that Apple didn't make the iPod touch more iPhone like. ie: make it everything except a phone (but also use bluetooth to connect to your mobile phone). That way when at home it could have used wifi, and when out and about it could use your existing mobile phone to connect to the net, or even to make a phone call.



    Such is life
  • Reply 288 of 311
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,870member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Takeo View Post


    A few followups from research I've done.



    I don't think you researched very well:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Takeo View Post


    1. Sonos does not support Fairplay



    True



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Takeo View Post


    or Apple Lossless files.



    Not true. (The Sonos players natively support Apple Lossless, it was added in a firmware update a long time ago).



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Takeo View Post


    So anything you bought from the iTunes store won't work (unless you burn a CD and re-rip to get around Fairplay... not an option if you have 1000's of Fairplay songs).



    Or, if you've got a PC, you could use QT Fair Use to get rid of the DRM.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Takeo View Post


    It imports all of your music into it's own jukebox software. So you end up with two copies of your music library.



    Not true. The Sonos uses SMB networking. So, you just share your Mac drive containing the iTunes music folder using OS X's built-in SMB sharing, and that's it.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Takeo View Post


    It's also really expensive.



    True. I think the biggest drawback is that the system has only one remote (you can use more than one, but the remotes are really expensive). What if you've one person in one room, and someone else in a different room? With only one remote, one of those people isn't going to be able to control their music.



    Have you investigated the Roku SoundBridge? Not as cool as Sonos, but much cheaper.
  • Reply 289 of 311
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,573member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blip View Post


    I feel almost sorry for Takeo. Are some of you guys trying NOT to understand him? Like only reading every second word and filling in the blanks with your own? What's all the nitpicking about? He was even giving an existing *example* (i.e. the Sonos) of what he wanted to do with the iTouch and gets a in return. To qoute a certain CEO: "It boggles the mind." [that it's so hard to understand]



    Further, what's so incredibly hard to understand with this concept?



    1. I have a lot of music. Choosing songs etc when away from the computer would be nice but an Apple Remote won't do since forward/back won't suffice when choosing my Jazz playlist or a particular song.



    2. Why would I want a TV when I have a small WiFi-enabled screen in the iPod touch I can bring to whatever room I want? No, really. Why?



    Juding by internet forums/foras where conversations *often* (uttered with some carefulness) resemble spoken language Paul Grice would probably like to revise his maxims for the internet age and check that cooperative principle again.



    I understand what he's saying.



    But, he didn't say all of that in his first post. He kept adding requirements as the posting went on. So there was plenty of room for confusion as to what he wants, and as to what he imagines he wants.



    There have been whole house music controllers around for a very long time, going back to the '60's. There are several incredible products available now, which use a central repository for all your content, which can be controlled all over the house, and outside as well, even allowing several people to chose different content to play in different places at the same time. But, these systems can be expensive.



    What I'm trying to do is to help understand, for myself, as well as for him, what can ACTUALLY be done, rather than what would be NICE, if it could be done, but can't, at this time.



    Perhaps you didn't read what I said to that effect.



    As he seems to be wedded to the idea that he wants to do this with the iTouch, which, at this time CAN'T do this, I'm trying to see if we can help him find a way to do at least part of it. The Sonos doesn't do it either for him, or none of this would have been asked by him in the first place. At least that's what I can see from his complaints. And yes, they are complaints.



    I've also suggested that it might be possible at some future time, to d this with the iTouch, as third party developers will likely add the functionality.



    But, that still won't solve the storage problem for him. The point being that the iTouch won't be able to do what he want to do with it.



    Is that so hard for you to understand?
  • Reply 290 of 311
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I understand what he's saying.



    ...



    Is that so hard for you to understand?



    I guess we interpreted what was said a bit differently. I felt, for example, that you were going on about the Apple TV - with a TV or monitor, no less - like there was no tomorrow (yes, I might be exaggerating) when, to me, clearly that wasn't the solution that was asked for. As a part of the solution, maybe. What I couldn't figure out was what was so bad (bad, yes, because that's the feeling I got with all the nitpicking retorts, page after page) about his idea when the iPod touch is almost - on paper, at least - ideal for this (a kind of Sonos copycat if you want): either as only a visual aid and remote control for your computer/Apple TV or even, with its own smaller collection, directly streaming to a wireless device connected to the setup of your choice. Complaints or constructive critisism? I just thought it was a nice idea.



    As far as technology goes we've had the Airport Express for years. The only two things that's been "missing", IMHO, is a visual aid (enter Salling Clicker) for picking music and video streaming (until Apple TV entered the scene). As for myself a version of Salling Clicker for iTouch would be enough but that doesn't mean everyone else wants the same thing. That solution would actually be kind of an "Apple Sonos", if you want. The Salling Clicker solution very much CAN be done, only it's not available for the iTouch. You'd have to resort to your PDA (Palm/PPC) or mobile phone for now.



    As for the device itself doing the streaming from "its own" collection, storage wise, of course you're right but then again he seems fine with the Sonos solution (besides the cost of it all...), hence my hope for the developers of Salling Clicker looking long and hard into the iTouch.



    Anyhow, l won't divulge further into this as it's all turning into semantics and I'll probably just confuse things even more. We all have different needs and have different approaches when we try to find a solution to get there, that much is clear.
  • Reply 291 of 311
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,573member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blip View Post


    I guess we interpreted what was said a bit differently. I felt, for example, that you were going on about the Apple TV - with a TV or monitor, no less - like there was no tomorrow (yes, I might be exaggerating) when, to me, clearly that wasn't the solution that was asked for. As a part of the solution, maybe. What I couldn't figure out was what was so bad (bad, yes, because that's the feeling I got with all the nitpicking retorts, page after page) about his idea when the iPod touch is almost - on paper, at least - ideal for this (a kind of Sonos copycat if you want): either as only a visual aid and remote control for your computer/Apple TV or even, with its own smaller collection, directly streaming to a wireless device connected to the setup of your choice. Complaints or constructive critisism? I just thought it was a nice idea.



    The entire problem here is that he wants the iTouch to do this. But the iTouch can't do this.



    Sometimes we have to make a compromise. If something we want to do can't be done, we must look at other solutions. Sometimes those other solutions are not ideal. But sometimes they are the ONLY solutions.



    The problem we find then, is that those imperfect solutions are the only way to do what we want, even if they don't do it all.



    He first wanted to listen to music in one room, when the computer was in the other, and he didn't want to get up to change something from the other room. That's all we knew. He wanted to do it with the iTouch, but the iTouch can't do it.



    I then asked why the ATv wouldn't serve that function, because that was what it was designed for. I was under the impression that his Tv and audio system were in that same room. Problem solved!



    But, no, it wasn't. He added other requirements each time we posted. You came in at the end of the process.



    Quote:

    As far as technology goes we've had the Airport Express for years. The only two things that's been "missing", IMHO, is a visual aid (enter Salling Clicker) for picking music and video streaming (until Apple TV entered the scene). As for myself a version of Salling Clicker for iTouch would be enough but that doesn't mean everyone else wants the same thing. That solution would actually be kind of an "Apple Sonos", if you want. The Salling Clicker solution very much CAN be done, only it's not available for the iTouch. You'd have to resort to your PDA (Palm/PPC) or mobile phone for now.



    You see, you're now having the same problem with the idea that I was. What he wants to do, can't be done.



    Quote:

    As for the device itself doing the streaming from "its own" collection, storage wise, of course you're right but then again he seems fine with the Sonos solution (besides the cost of it all...), hence my hope for the developers of Salling Clicker looking long and hard into the iTouch.



    He's not fine with the Sonos because it won't work with all of the files.



    Quote:

    Anyhow, l won't divulge further into this as it's all turning into semantics and I'll probably just confuse things even more. We all have different needs and have different approaches when we try to find a solution to get there, that much is clear.



    I'm hoping you see why it was all so confusing.
  • Reply 292 of 311
    the ipod touch rulesss!!!
  • Reply 293 of 311
    takeotakeo Posts: 446member
    Hey melgross... the reason my "needs" seemed to keep changing was because people were throwing in other ideas as the thread went on which gave me other ideas. I'm not sure why everyone seems to care so much.



    Anyway... I may get a 160 GB iPod Classic and a Belkin TuneStage II. Having an iPod big enough to hold all my music and stream it to my stereo was all I ever really wanted. I've been wanting such a solution for years!... long before the iPod Touch was even a glimmer in Steve Jobs eye. The biggest obstacle was always storage space... since I like to keep everything in Lossless format. With that solved... I now just need a streaming solution. It doesn't look like Apple is going to add streaming anytime soon.. but the Belkin product gives me that... so... problem solved.



    Anyway, maybe we can go back to talking about the iPod Touch? Sorry to get things so off topic.
  • Reply 294 of 311
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,573member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Takeo View Post


    Hey melgross... the reason my "needs" seemed to keep changing was because people were throwing in other ideas as the thread went on which gave me other ideas. I'm not sure why everyone seems to care so much.



    Anyway... I may get a 160 GB iPod Classic and a Belkin TuneStage II. Having an iPod big enough to hold all my music and stream it to my stereo was all I ever really wanted. I've been wanting such a solution for years!... long before the iPod Touch was even a glimmer in Steve Jobs eye. The biggest obstacle was always storage space... since I like to keep everything in Lossless format. With that solved... I now just need a streaming solution. It doesn't look like Apple is going to add streaming anytime soon.. but the Belkin product gives me that... so... problem solved.



    Anyway, maybe we can go back to talking about the iPod Touch? Sorry to get things so off topic.



    We care!



    Hey we had a great time with it. Don't be sorry. It got us up and jumping.





  • Reply 295 of 311
    I know Steve said by the end September and that the Apple Online Store says "by September 28th," but do we have anything else to go on but that? That makes it seem like they'll ship literally as soon as they can. Is there any idea when they'll hit Apple Retail Stores? Or have some already?
  • Reply 296 of 311
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    What I'm trying to do is to help understand, for myself, as well as for him, what can ACTUALLY be done, rather than what would be NICE, if it could be done, but can't, at this time.



    ...



    As he seems to be wedded to the idea that he wants to do this with the iTouch, which, at this time CAN'T do this, I'm trying to see if we can help him find a way to do at least part of it.



    ...



    The entire problem here is that he wants the iTouch to do this. But the iTouch can't do this.



    ...



    He first wanted to listen to music in one room, when the computer was in the other, and he didn't want to get up to change something from the other room. That's all we knew. He wanted to do it with the iTouch, but the iTouch can't do it.



    ...

    You see, you're now having the same problem with the idea that I was. What he wants to do, can't be done.




    Seems more like what you're trying to do is rain on his parade rather than actually help him accomplish/understand his goal.



    The iPod Touch as a function of having Safari and 802.11 can do what he wants to do. He can do a Sonos like system with a Mac, AirTunes (Airport Express) and anything that controls iTunes via a web page (WebRemote, CoverBuddy, PatioTunes, etc)



    Here's something that even allows streaming from an iPhone and would likely work with the iPod Touch.



    http://blog.dottunes.net/blogarticle...24F6EED3E550E2



    Previous notes indicate that it works with AirTunes.



    http://digg.com/apple/New_iTunes_Air...Remote_Control



    Here is a comparison of Sonos with the CoverBuddy+AirTunes setup.



    http://geekwithfamily.com/2006/08/15...c-store-songs/



    Since CoverBuddy has a web interface the odds are it works out of box with the iPod Touch.



    To quote Buzz Lightyear: CAN!



    Vinea
  • Reply 297 of 311
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,573member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    Seems more like what you're trying to do is rain on his parade rather than actually help him accomplish/understand his goal.



    I have to say that you are good at one thing particularly, misunderstanding others' motives. At least you're consistent at it.



    Quote:

    The iPod Touch as a function of having Safari and 802.11 can do what he wants to do. He can do a Sonos like system with a Mac, AirTunes (Airport Express) and anything that controls iTunes via a web page (WebRemote, CoverBuddy, PatioTunes, etc)





    Here's something that even allows streaming from an iPhone and would likely work with the iPod Touch.



    http://blog.dottunes.net/blogarticle...24F6EED3E550E2



    Previous notes indicate that it works with AirTunes.



    http://digg.com/apple/New_iTunes_Air...Remote_Control[/quote]



    You know that both items above are the same?



    Quote:

    Here is a comparison of Sonos with the CoverBuddy+AirTunes setup.



    http://geekwithfamily.com/2006/08/15...c-store-songs/



    Since CoverBuddy has a web interface the odds are it works out of box with the iPod Touch.



    It says the PSP. We don't know if it works with the iTouch yet, or how well. There wasn't much info there.
  • Reply 298 of 311
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I have to say that you are good at one thing particularly, misunderstanding others' motives. At least you're consistent at it.



    Misunderstanding your negativity? You said it can't be done a half dozen times.



    Why continue to be negative after I showed that you COULD do it from any web browser? Any subsequent discussion of Sonos like capability should have been an easy google for "AirTunes Web control"



    Boom...CoverBuddy.



    So why continue with the negativity EVEN IN THIS POST? You want to not admit that you were wrong so bad that you're still willing to rain on his day in the face of multiple web based solutions that does what he wants to do?



    Quote:

    You know that both items above are the same?



    Yes, that is why I said "Previous notes indicate that it works with AirTunes". I included that because the current focus is on iPhone streaming and doesn't talk about its AirTunes control functionality.



    Their web page kinda sucks (info wise...a screen shot would be nice guys) but the product looks intriguing. The streaming part also helps him with the limited space on the iPod touch. If he can stream his library to his iPod Touch like they can do for the iPhone then he's got all the storage he needs as long as he has a network link.



    Boom.



    Quote:

    It says the PSP. We don't know if it works with the iTouch yet, or how well. There wasn't much info there.



    It's a web based system if you actually bother to look at the thing rather than continue to be a nay-sayer. The guy has a 5 part series on how he built his system and there's a link to the CoverBuddy site as well.



    But here you go Mr Doubter:



    Quote:

    So I remembered something the other day.



    I have coverbuddy and an airport express. I used to use my PSP for fun to control my music, but I don't always have my PSP near me, charged and hooked up to the wireless network.



    iPhone to the rescue. Since it auto-joins known networks and I always have it charged, boom instant apartment changing itunes without a laptop on my lap.



    If you want to do this, make sure you poke a hole in your firewall for port 9994.



    Yay! iPhone.



    http://www.joedunn.com/?q=node/80



    CAN!



    Vinea
  • Reply 299 of 311
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,573member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    Misunderstanding your negativity? You said it can't be done a half dozen times.



    Why continue to be negative after I showed that you COULD do it from any web browser? Any subsequent discussion of Sonos like capability should have been an easy google for "AirTunes Web control"



    Boom...CoverBuddy.



    So why continue with the negativity EVEN IN THIS POST? You want to not admit that you were wrong so bad that you're still willing to rain on his day in the face of multiple web based solutions that does what he wants to do?







    Yes, that is why I said "Previous notes indicate that it works with AirTunes". I included that because the current focus is on iPhone streaming and doesn't talk about its AirTunes control functionality.



    Their web page kinda sucks (info wise...a screen shot would be nice guys) but the product looks intriguing. The streaming part also helps him with the limited space on the iPod touch. If he can stream his library to his iPod Touch like they can do for the iPhone then he's got all the storage he needs as long as he has a network link.



    Boom.







    It's a web based system if you actually bother to look at the thing rather than continue to be a nay-sayer. The guy has a 5 part series on how he built his system and there's a link to the CoverBuddy site as well.



    But here you go Mr Doubter:







    http://www.joedunn.com/?q=node/80



    CAN!



    Vinea



    It's your nastiness in assuming that I'm trying to "rain on his parade", which is ridiculous.



    You could instead, just say that you found some products that look to do what he wants to do. You didn't even have to respond to me, as you love to do, you would have done us all a service if you simply responded to his last post, since he's the one you're supposedly trying to help, rather than actually not caring about him at all, but are more interested in doing what you can to try to show me up instead. Though you're usually wrong.



    This time you found some interesting stuff. Good for you! You've finally done something useful.
  • Reply 300 of 311
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    It's your nastiness in assuming that I'm trying to "rain on his parade", which is ridiculous.



    LOL. "Rain on his parade" is not a motive it's the outcome. Your motive is your own although I did venture a guess on why.



    Quote:

    You could instead, just say that you found some products that look to do what he wants to do.



    I did that several posts ago with the link to a free PHP control program.



    Quote:

    You didn't even have to respond to me, as you love to do, you would have done us all a service if you simply responded to his last post, since he's the one you're supposedly trying to help, rather than actually not caring about him at all, but are more interested in doing what you can to try to show me up instead. Though you're usually wrong.



    I wouldn't have bothered addressing you at all except for your negativity with Blip. The Can't, Can't, Can't started to bug me. Who made you the final arbiter on what the iPod Touch can and cannot do? It wasn't a matter of showing you up as much as correcting disinformation.



    As far as caring...jeez, this is an internet forum. At least I cared enough to do a 2 second search before pontificating that something can or cannot be done.



    Quote:

    This time you found some interesting stuff. Good for you! You've finally done something useful.



    You're too funny Mel. Just like the useless stuff on NANDs which you steadfastly argued would never drop in price this year? Ooops.



    You know that the forum has an ignore feature. You never have to read a thing I write ever again. Buh bye!



    Vinea
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