Apple orders aluminum 13-inch MacBook shells, 3G iPhone chips

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  • Reply 101 of 149
    matt_smatt_s Posts: 299member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mzaslove View Post


    My bad... for some reason I thought you were calling for more than that. (Though now that you mention it a full-on football laptop would be great to bring to the beach and double to play a game of catch with when not working... or that Frisbee-shaped one. I kid... I kid....)



    The football design is only good until you bull your way into the end zone and inadvertently spike your laptop in celebration, thereby losing Gig's of key files!!!
  • Reply 102 of 149
    mzaslovemzaslove Posts: 519member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by matt_s View Post


    The football design is only good until you bull your way into the end zone and inadvertently spike your laptop in celebration, thereby losing Gig's of key files!!!



    I don't know... SSD, no optical drive, no moving parts, extra rugged case design... it could work! (Okay, we've now officially gotten too silly. I'm done.)
  • Reply 103 of 149
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,472member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by matt_s View Post


    I apologize if I sounded condescending, that was not what I intended. I just get tired when folks give Apple a free pass when they've plainly sat back on their laurels. They made a great design but that was 6, 7, 8 years ago. Enough is enough. Get on with it!



    It's not unreasonable to like the idea of something new. It's the way you are insisting.



    Quote:

    Am I the only one who finds it strange that the company noted for their industrial design dishes out the same laptop design year after year after year? How is this innovative design practice? Don't confuse features with design.



    It seems as though you are, here at least.



    You are confusing looks with design. Have you heard of "form follows function?" Once you reach a form that seems ideal for the function, it's very difficult to improve it. I haven't seen any practical idea on this front from you.



    [quote]

    If you like it - fine - no worries. Buy it, enjoy it. But that still doesn't halt the undeniable fact that the Aluminum PowerBook I bought in 2003 looks pretty much exactly like the Aluminum laptop I bought in 2004, the Aluminum laptop I bought in 2006, and all the Aluminum laptops they've introduced since then. It just goes on and on.



    Doesn't anyone except me and a few others here think this is stagnant design practice? I mean, even if you love the look, you must admit it's the same look year after year after year after year after year. Ya might think that's good but still, it's the same damn warmed-over thing all the time.[quote]



    I thought you said you weren't looking for allies? Why does it matter that a very good design doesn't change?



    Quote:

    Can't they think of anything different? They're slogan was "Think Different." Maybe they need to change that to "Think Same."



    That's all I'm saying.



    Think different can also mean not always bowing to peope who say to change looks for no good reason, and staying with what is best. That would certainly be thinking different.
  • Reply 104 of 149
    matt_smatt_s Posts: 299member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Think different can also mean not always bowing to peope who say to change looks for no good reason, and staying with what is best. That would certainly be thinking different.



    If Apple's going to be known for their great design and fashion, then I believe they should continue in that tradition.



    If not, then eventually, they will not be known for that. All things change (except, of course, Mac laptop looks).



    And I disagree with you, there are good reasons to change the look of your product line, otherwise, we'd all be using Intel laptops that looked just like 1400's or Pismo's.



    Apple used to change their laptop looks, and then, just stopped. But they didn't stop for a year or two - they stopped for 7 or 8 years! In the electronics industry, that's almost geological time! \



    I miss those days of new art, new fashion, fresh looks, wowing my co-workers with the latest, coolest new laptops on the market. No matter what is said or how it's argued or debated, the ancient look of Apple's laptop line grows older every day, and I remain weary of the silvery design. Think Same!
  • Reply 105 of 149
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by matt_s View Post


    If Apple's going to be known for their great design and fashion, then I believe they should continue in that tradition.



    If not, then eventually, they will not be known for that. All things change (except, of course, Mac laptop looks).



    And I disagree with you, there are good reasons to change the look of your product line, otherwise, we'd all be using Intel laptops that looked just like 1400's or Pismo's.



    Apple used to change their laptop looks, and then, just stopped. But they didn't stop for a year or two - they stopped for 7 or 8 years! In the electronics industry, that's almost geological time! \



    I miss those days of new art, new fashion, fresh looks, wowing my co-workers with the latest, coolest new laptops on the market. No matter what is said or how it's argued or debated, the ancient look of Apple's laptop line grows older every day, and I remain weary of the silvery design. Think Same!



    Your argument holds no water unless you can provide at least one idea of how this can accomplished outside of all the other things Apple has done to further the line using technology available to us today. Go ahead and use something that is still just a glimmer in a scientists eye at this point. Or are you still holding to your previous argument that you are hear to complain about it but no offer any useful solutions?



    edit: The MBA defied all previous notebook designs with a non-user changeable battery and a lack of an internal optical drive. While the lack of an optical drive is a common on small notebooks with shrunken keyboards, it is not with 13" screens and full sized keyboards.
  • Reply 106 of 149
    matt_smatt_s Posts: 299member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Your argument holds no water unless you can provide at least one idea of how this can accomplished outside of all the other things Apple has done to further the line using technology available to us today. Go ahead and use something that is still just a glimmer in a scientists eye at this point. Or are you still holding to your previous argument that you are hear to complain about it but no offer any useful solutions?



    So, you're saying that Apple's industrial design group is so bereft of ideas that they need me to design their new laptop looks?



    I don't understand what it is you mean here.



    They are the supplier. I am the customer. They design new stuff, I go buy it. We have a synergistic relationship.



    Am I now to design and they are to buy? I do not get your logic.
  • Reply 107 of 149
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by matt_s View Post


    So, you're saying that Apple's industrial design group is so bereft of ideas that they need me to design their new laptop looks?



    Having an idea isn't designing anything. I didn't ask you to come up with any physical limitations and specifications that would make your design work. I asked you tell me what you think needs to be altered; not how this feat is to be achieved.



    You seem to think that they are "sitting on their laurels" then you must have conceived something that could be altered. Personally, I'd like tosee all optical drives removed from notebooks. They have gotten as small as they are going to get and hold very little data compared to modern HDDs but still take up a lot of space and force engineers to design around them.
  • Reply 108 of 149
    matt_smatt_s Posts: 299member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Having an idea isn't designing anything. I didn't ask you to come up with any physical limitations and specifications that would make your design work. I asked you tell me what you think needs to be altered; not how this feat is to be achieved.



    You seem to think that they are "sitting on their laurels" that you must have conceived something that could be altered.



    I've already mentioned these multifarious times in this forum. Here you go again: Change the color. Different colors. Chrome base maybe. Change the finish. Or, leave the base silver, make the top black. Make the base black, change the top. Make the Apple on the cover smaller. Move it up. Move it left. Move it right. Change from high gloss to matte finish. Color the keyboard. Maybe even a black plastic cover and a black aluminum base. Bring out a 12" MBP, resurrecting the same old tooling used before; now it's smaller, lighter. Put a identically colored neoprene edge on the units. Make some of this BTO.



    I'm sure there's a lot of guys here who could spit out changes to looks that they'd buy as well. No one would crack a sweat doing it.



    It's just not that hard modifying the look of such an elderly product line. I'm not an industrial designer, I'm sure those guys that Apple pays hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to can come up with something different after 7-8 years.



    How much time do they need?
  • Reply 109 of 149
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by matt_s View Post


    I've already mentioned these multifarious times in this forum. Here you go again: Change the color. Different colors. Chrome base maybe. Change the finish. Or, leave the base silver, make the top black. Make the base black, change the top. Make the Apple on the cover smaller. Move it up. Move it left. Move it right. Change from high gloss to matte finish. Color the keyboard. Maybe even a black plastic cover and a black aluminum base. Bring out a 12" MBP, resurrecting the same old tooling used before; now it's smaller, lighter. Put a identically colored neoprene edge on the units. Make some of this BTO.



    I'm sure there's a lot of guys here who could spit out changes to looks that they'd buy as well. No one would crack a sweat doing it.



    It's just not that hard modifying the look of such an elderly product line. I'm not an industrial designer, I'm sure those guys that Apple pays hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to can come up with something different after 7-8 years.



    How much time do they need?



    So you're only complaint and solution to be satisfied with Apple "Thinking Different" is a colour change? Really? You call a color or sheen to be the "Think Different" design you have been preaching on this thread. EIther way, you finally made a list and here is one of many compnaies that will solve your problem for you:
    As for a 12" MB, that can't happen unless Apple wants to put form over function or defy the market's desire to have new standard of 16:9 screens over 4:3. A 12" display in 16:9 would be too short for viewing text comfortably. It is my opinion that this why the 12" PB has been replaced by a 13" MB/MBA.
  • Reply 110 of 149
    matt_smatt_s Posts: 299member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    So you're only complaint and solution to be satisfied with Apple "Thinking Different" is a colour change? Really? You call a color or sheen to be the "Think Different" design you have been preaching on this thread.



    It's not that hard to change the looks of something. That's exactly what Apple did to the Black MacBook (a very good seller, BTW), it's what they did to the Bronze Keyboard Lombard, it's how they differentiated models of some of the 5000 Series, the original iMac's and a number of other machines. So, it's not "my solution," as you say, instead - it's exactly what Apple themselves have done in the past.



    But now, they've grown so complacent in their design practice, they can't even be bothered to do something as simple as that.



    Again, I ask you: how much time do they need?
  • Reply 111 of 149
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,472member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by matt_s View Post


    If Apple's going to be known for their great design and fashion, then I believe they should continue in that tradition.



    If not, then eventually, they will not be known for that. All things change (except, of course, Mac laptop looks).



    And I disagree with you, there are good reasons to change the look of your product line, otherwise, we'd all be using Intel laptops that looked just like 1400's or Pismo's.



    Apple used to change their laptop looks, and then, just stopped. But they didn't stop for a year or two - they stopped for 7 or 8 years! In the electronics industry, that's almost geological time! \



    I don't agree with this entire proposition. It's also as though you haven't considered anything I've said at all. you're just repeating the same "I want something that looks new!" statement.



    Apple's designs have evolved over the years. That's a good thing. Those old designs all had some problem that people complained about, or would break, or would be flimsey, and so on.



    With the aluminum enclosures, Apple has elimunated these problems with a design that does look very good, and somewhat timeless.The only problem has been the wireless range, but, as i've said, that's been improved several times.



    I also asked you to give some idea of what you think Apple should be doing to both improve the case, and make it look better to your eyes, but you haven't done that.



    While I would like Apple to continue being known for great design, I want that design to mean something. Change for changes sake, which you are demanding is always a bad thing.



    Quote:

    I miss those days of new art, new fashion, fresh looks, wowing my co-workers with the latest, coolest new laptops on the market. No matter what is said or how it's argued or debated, the ancient look of Apple's laptop line grows older every day, and I remain weary of the silvery design. Think Same!



    If that's your only reason, it isn't enough. You shold be impressing your coworkers with how well the machine works, not how cool the new design is.



    Buy an Air. That looks different. Silver and all.
  • Reply 112 of 149
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,472member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by matt_s View Post


    So, you're saying that Apple's industrial design group is so bereft of ideas that they need me to design their new laptop looks?



    I don't understand what it is you mean here.



    They are the supplier. I am the customer. They design new stuff, I go buy it. We have a synergistic relationship.



    Am I now to design and they are to buy? I do not get your logic.



    What we are saying, as you haven't noticed, is that it isn't Apple's design team with the problem, it's you.



    Most people are more concerned withwhat's inside. The outside is there to protect it.



    I'm sure that once Apple develops a new enclosure that will be better than the current one, in their view, they will move to it.



    I hope they don't change their design for no engineering reason.
  • Reply 113 of 149
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,472member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Having an idea isn't designing anything. I didn't ask you to come up with any physical limitations and specifications that would make your design work. I asked you tell me what you think needs to be altered; not how this feat is to be achieved.



    You seem to think that they are "sitting on their laurels" then you must have conceived something that could be altered. Personally, I'd like tosee all optical drives removed from notebooks. They have gotten as small as they are going to get and hold very little data compared to modern HDDs but still take up a lot of space and force engineers to design around them.



    I would like to know what his ideas are. I'm curious as to what he thinks new cases should look like, as he doesn't like these anymore.
  • Reply 114 of 149
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,472member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by matt_s View Post


    I've already mentioned these multifarious times in this forum. Here you go again: Change the color. Different colors. Chrome base maybe. Change the finish. Or, leave the base silver, make the top black. Make the base black, change the top. Make the Apple on the cover smaller. Move it up. Move it left. Move it right. Change from high gloss to matte finish. Color the keyboard. Maybe even a black plastic cover and a black aluminum base. Bring out a 12" MBP, resurrecting the same old tooling used before; now it's smaller, lighter. Put a identically colored neoprene edge on the units. Make some of this BTO.



    I'm sure there's a lot of guys here who could spit out changes to looks that they'd buy as well. No one would crack a sweat doing it.



    It's just not that hard modifying the look of such an elderly product line. I'm not an industrial designer, I'm sure those guys that Apple pays hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to can come up with something different after 7-8 years.



    How much time do they need?



    Sounds tacky. Good thing you don't work there.



    I hope Apple ended those idea paths after the clamshell iBooks of multicolored fame, as well as the tie dyed iMac.
  • Reply 115 of 149
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Sounds tacky. Good thing you don't work there.



    I hope Apple ended those idea paths after the clamshell iBooks of multicolored fame, as well as the tie dyed iMac.



    I agree. A QWERTY keyboard and display need to be rectangle for optimal efficiency and usability so I never liked the clamshell style iBooks because it seemed to take away from having a larger screen in a smaller package. People complain that the borders on MB/MBP/MBA displays are still too large.



    To each their own, at least he has plenty of ways to make his MBP a different colour.







    PS: I think as Apple goes green they will make the next MB out of aluminium and will use colours that match the iPod Nanos.
  • Reply 116 of 149
    matt_smatt_s Posts: 299member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    PS: I think as Apple goes green they will make the next MB out of aluminium and will use colours that match the iPod Nanos.



    That would be a change at least, updating the elderly to something new.



    And why not, OS X Finder looks just like iTunes now, the iMac looks like a gigantic iPod, so why not make the MBP look just like an overgrown iPhone?



    At least it would be something different, finally!
  • Reply 117 of 149
    Apple needs to keep the styling on the MBP simple, if anything smooth it out still further. I also like the idea of tweaking the keyboard. The current MBP keyboard is slightly too soft for my liking, although I do slightly prefer the shape of the keys to the chiclets, a little more forgiving.



    Also the lid on the MBP needs to open wider. It is not as comfortable to use as a MacBook simply because of how narrowly the lid opens. This is like a throwback to early laptops.



    But most importantly they need to make the computer more durable and easier to work on. Paint rubs off keys. Not good. Displays go blank with firmware updates. Not good. Changing a hard drive requires dealing with 30 screws. Not good and not like the MacBook, which may be the easiest computer ever to change a hard drive on, unless you count the MacPro.



    I also want Apple to continue pushing toward making the computer as quiet and as cool running as possible. They more they move in that direction the more they have a desktop replacement on their hands. Given that they don't see fit to do an affordable and reasonably powerful headless machine like the PowerMac line, it looks like this is the direction they're going -- having the laptop occupy that middle line as the desktop replacement.



    I want a laptop that I can use on the desktop with a secondary monitor, in a two display setup (one on the laptop, one on the secondary one), with serious applications like Photoshop, without a lot of overheating and without a lot of fan noise making me think it's going to burn up.



    I don't think with current chip technology that I am asking too much. It's just that my PowerMac is crying out for replacement. It's too noisy and too slow. And my MacBook does not quite deliver the goods on Photoshop.
  • Reply 118 of 149
    dhagan4755dhagan4755 Posts: 2,148member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by photoeditor View Post


    Also the lid on the MBP needs to open wider. It is not as comfortable to use as a MacBook simply because of how narrowly the lid opens.



    This is a good point! And one of my frustrations with the current MBP design.
  • Reply 119 of 149
    matt_smatt_s Posts: 299member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by photoeditor View Post


    Apple needs to keep the styling on the MBP simple, if anything smooth it out still further. I also like the idea of tweaking the keyboard. The current MBP keyboard is slightly too soft for my liking, although I do slightly prefer the shape of the keys to the chiclets, a little more forgiving.



    I thoroughly agree. I like the keyboard on my BlackBook much more than the one on my wife's new MBP 15". I've gotten really quick on the "chiclets," as you call them (great name), and the more I use this keyboard, the more I appreciate it.



    Quote:

    Also the lid on the MBP needs to open wider. It is not as comfortable to use as a MacBook simply because of how narrowly the lid opens. This is like a throwback to early laptops.



    I couldn't travel with my Al MBP 15" any longer, I just got so tired carrying it thru airports, and it just doesn't fit well on a seat back tray. It's also super delicate, and is not a good travel companion. If my BlackBook had an improved graphics subsystem, it would be the finest laptop I've ever owned. It gets nearly 50% more wireless range than my wife's MBP. It's remarkably durable, has been all over the globe and until I installed 10.5.x, had never crashed or frozen. I've dropped it down a flight of concrete stairs at JFK airport; inadvertently sat on it on a sofa in a Paris hotel; dumped coffee on the keyboard in Melbourne, and, spilled a big dark beer on it in a bar in Petaluma. It just keeps cranking along, despite the abuse, and my powerful fat fingers clanging on the keyboard day and night.



    Quote:

    But most importantly they need to make the computer more durable and easier to work on. Paint rubs off keys. Not good. Displays go blank with firmware updates. Not good. Changing a hard drive requires dealing with 30 screws. Not good and not like the MacBook, which may be the easiest computer ever to change a hard drive on, unless you count the MacPro.



    Paint wearing off happened to all of the Al PB G4 & Intel Al MBP's I've owned, and, paint on the keys is starting to wear off on my wife's 8 month old MBP. Scratches appear on the cover. Wear on the wrist rest areas by the mouse pad. This is simply unacceptable, especially after 7-8 years of Apple shipping the same design, and especially for a machine that cost just north of $3,000. And correct-o-mundo on the HDD changing, adding RAM & a new hard drive in my BlackBook was the easiest thing ever. I was stunned how simple it was.



    Quote:

    I want a laptop that I can use on the desktop with a secondary monitor, in a two display setup (one on the laptop, one on the secondary one), with serious applications like Photoshop, without a lot of overheating and without a lot of fan noise making me think it's going to burn up.



    Our needs are much different. I want a laptop that's a joy to travel with. My perfect laptop would be this current BlackBook without an internal DVD drive and an improved graphics subsystem. I don't miss the lighted keyboard at all. 1394b is nice but not worth schlepping the extra pounds across the globe. I prefer the smaller footprint of the 13" book, and the lighter weight.



    Improved graphics - more powerful - would enable me to connect to a wider variety of display peripherals for presentations. Sometimes, the BlackBook just doesn't have enough oomph to drive certain displays, or projectors.



    The new MBA is worthless to me as a travel unit, since there's no way to swap out the battery (or less importantly, connect to a wired network while having a USB software application dongle in it's one lone port). It's the battery that's the killer decider, tho; that and the fact it almost looks exactly like every other Mac laptop since before there was dirt. It would be great if Apple introduced a true road warrior machine, travel-friendly.



    And of course, if they'd just tweak the old design a bit, refresh the color or something...
  • Reply 120 of 149
    sennensennen Posts: 1,465member
    good posts, photoeditor and the last one matt - this kind of discussion is more meaningful than calling for change for change's sake.



    as someone who still has a running pismo at home, i much prefer the ports being at the back of the machine rather than on the side, and whilst not backlit the keys feel better under-finger.



    with the number of iterations and refinement of the PB/MPB design it will be interesting to see where the changes are made when the re-design eventually comes. it would be a challenging project, i think.



    on a superficial level i feel the current design is getting 'tired' (though less superficially regarding the keyboard) and that even a simple black option would be a positive - though would have made sense when black MBs and black ipods first were released rather than as a last gasp. end-of-the-line gimmick which it would appear as now.



    again, addressing things superficially there are many options as someone mentioned before about covers, cases, case mods. i am thinking of getting something from here: http://www.gelaskins.com/
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