Apple orders aluminum 13-inch MacBook shells, 3G iPhone chips

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  • Reply 121 of 149
    matt_smatt_s Posts: 299member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Apple's designs have evolved over the years. That's a good thing. Those old designs all had some problem that people complained about, or would break, or would be flimsey, and so on.



    With the aluminum enclosures, Apple has elimunated these problems with a design that does look very good, and somewhat timeless.The only problem has been the wireless range, but, as i've said, that's been improved several times.



    Not only is this design elderly, it's also chintzy. Paint rubs off, wrist rests wear, covers scratch. It's never been a great laptop design in terms of quality, reliability or usability, and it's time to retire it.



    Quote:

    I also asked you to give some idea of what you think Apple should be doing to both improve the case, and make it look better to your eyes, but you haven't done that.



    Sorry I didn't snap-to to fulfill your demands. But I've done this over and over again, read above if you still want to know.



    Quote:

    While I would like Apple to continue being known for great design, I want that design to mean something. Change for changes sake, which you are demanding is always a bad thing.



    I have no idea what you mean. It's time for a change, period.



    Quote:

    If that's your only reason, it isn't enough. You shold be impressing your coworkers with how well the machine works, not how cool the new design is.



    Sorry but that's not correct. It's my money and my reasons are enough, period.



    Quote:

    Buy an Air. That looks different. Silver and all.



    MBA is worthless to me. I need a travel laptop. MBA is for people who fly first class only, or like Steve, have a corporate jet. I don't have that luxury, unfortunately, so I need a workman-like laptop, something with a replaceable battery.
  • Reply 122 of 149
    matt_smatt_s Posts: 299member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sennen View Post


    as someone who still has a running pismo at home, i much prefer the ports being at the back of the machine rather than on the side, and whilst not backlit the keys feel better under-finger.



    You know what, I remember my Wall Street, my Lombard & my Pismo machines and you're right, ports are more convenient on the back for long term use. It keeps the cables out of the way, and if you use a dock, it's not in your way, eating up desk space where you'd be working.



    However, if you just want to plug in a USB drive, having the ports on the side makes it a little more convenient.



    Personally, I can use it either way, as long as there are an adequate number of IO. I think the MBA with it's one lone USB port is a bad joke.



    If Apple added upgraded graphics to the BlackBook, and removed the DVD drive to reduce weight, it would be the ideal Macintosh portable, maybe the best ever made. I would not want to be forced back into a metal laptop again, and have my WiFi range reduced, I've just gotten too spoiled
  • Reply 123 of 149
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,195moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by matt_s View Post


    If Apple added upgraded graphics to the BlackBook, and removed the DVD drive to reduce weight, it would be the ideal Macintosh portable, maybe the best ever made. I would not want to be forced back into a metal laptop again, and have my WiFi range reduced, I've just gotten too spoiled



    Yeah the DVD drive really takes up a huge amount of space in a 13" laptop. I'm not sure I'd like to see it removed though unless there was an adequate replacement. I guess the bus-powered USB drive they have would do though.



    If removing the optical drive means including better graphics chips and more USB ports, I'm all for it. But metal is still the way forward, the Macbook is the only product they have left that's plastic.



    The keys are an issue though. If they have colored MBs, how do they color the keys? They'll have to be painted plastic, which isn't good or solid metal, which will be expensive.



    If they get white and black anodised aluminium, that would work with the keyboards they have now and still maintain a degree of separation from the MBPs and they could backlight the black keyboard to help justify the premium.
  • Reply 124 of 149
    matt_smatt_s Posts: 299member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    Yeah the DVD drive really takes up a huge amount of space in a 13" laptop. I'm not sure I'd like to see it removed though unless there was an adequate replacement. I guess the bus-powered USB drive they have would do though.



    I had an external LaCie FireWire DVD player/burner years ago, and it worked great. Much faster throughput than USB. An external 1394 Super Drive for $179 is all you'd need - or better, a BluRay burner & player + Super Drive. I have never used the DVD drive in my BlackBook while traveling... ever. I'm just carrying around dead weight for no apparent reason.



    Quote:

    If removing the optical drive means including better graphics chips and more USB ports, I'm all for it. But metal is still the way forward, the Macbook is the only product they have left that's plastic.



    I don't want metal if I can get something else. I don't want my WiFi signal trimmed again. I've grown too spoiled with my plastic MacBook. My wife's MBP 15" - 8 months old - can't see half the networks I can, and I can sit on the deck and play backgammon on Fibs (with 3 airport bars)... while her MBP can't get a signal. Please, Apple, please don't make me give up my WiFi signal again!!!! However, if I get screwed & it's metal now, I hope at least it's not more silver sameness.



    Quote:

    The keys are an issue though. If they have colored MBs, how do they color the keys? They'll have to be painted plastic, which isn't good or solid metal, which will be expensive.



    Simple: mold colored plastic or just go with black keyboards. The painted silver ones on those chintzy Al laptops have their paint peel off all the time anyway. I'd use solid plastic with color adders in the mold. Painting is the cheap and crappy way to do things.



    Quote:

    If they get white and black anodised aluminium, that would work with the keyboards they have now and still maintain a degree of separation from the MBPs and they could backlight the black keyboard to help justify the premium.



    Don't care, really. Never used the lighted keyboard on my last 3 Pro's, don't miss it. All I want is better graphics and lighter weight. Seriously, I don't think Apple has ever considered the MacBook as a travel companion but it could be easily modified to be one of the best road warrior machines on the market.



    It would not steal sales from the Air, because that unit is not designed for travel, it's designed for uh, uh, thinness, I guess. It's designed specifically for people who don't have much vertical space to spare, evidently. But it's definitely not a travel machine.
  • Reply 125 of 149
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,338member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by matt_s View Post


    Not only is this design elderly, it's also chintzy. Paint rubs off, wrist rests wear, covers scratch. It's never been a great laptop design in terms of quality, reliability or usability, and it's time to retire it.



    Are we talking about the same thing? There isn't any paint. It's anodized aluminum.



    Quote:

    Sorry I didn't snap-to to fulfill your demands. But I've done this over and over again, read above if you still want to know.



    Well, I see you've finally responded on that to someone else.



    Quote:

    I have no idea what you mean. It's time for a change, period.



    That's the problem. It's not time for a change?period. That's one of the sillist things to say.



    Change just to change?



    Quote:

    Sorry but that's not correct. It's my money and my reasons are enough, period.



    It is your money, and you should spend it the way you want.



    But, as you chose to make this into a public complaint, it's no longer just your business. You've made it all of our business.



    Quote:

    MBA is worthless to me. I need a travel laptop. MBA is for people who fly first class only, or like Steve, have a corporate jet. I don't have that luxury, unfortunately, so I need a workman-like laptop, something with a replaceable battery.



    It was a figurative statement. You've given little for your needs to change, other than for fashion, so I brought that up.
  • Reply 126 of 149
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,338member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    Yeah the DVD drive really takes up a huge amount of space in a 13" laptop. I'm not sure I'd like to see it removed though unless there was an adequate replacement. I guess the bus-powered USB drive they have would do though.



    If removing the optical drive means including better graphics chips and more USB ports, I'm all for it. But metal is still the way forward, the Macbook is the only product they have left that's plastic.



    The keys are an issue though. If they have colored MBs, how do they color the keys? They'll have to be painted plastic, which isn't good or solid metal, which will be expensive.



    If they get white and black anodised aluminium, that would work with the keyboards they have now and still maintain a degree of separation from the MBPs and they could backlight the black keyboard to help justify the premium.



    While anodized aluminum is rare, and very expensive. It also marks easily.
  • Reply 127 of 149
    gongon Posts: 2,437member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    While anodized aluminum is rare, and very expensive. It also marks easily.



    A hard anodized aluminum flashlight doesn't scratch even when putting it in a pocket with keys.
  • Reply 128 of 149
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,338member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gon View Post


    A hard anodized aluminum flashlight doesn't scratch even when putting it in a pocket with keys.



    White anodizing does mark, as I've said. Most anodizing is not "hard". That's a term reserved for anodizing used for tools, and other surfaces getting severe use. Most anodizing is much thinner.



    While the anodized surface can be up to 73 in Rockwell hardness, the soft aluminum substrate indents, damaging the surface.



    I have several Maglights, and they are all scratched from use.
  • Reply 129 of 149
    gongon Posts: 2,437member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    White anodizing does mark, as I've said.



    Ah. You meant "white". You said "while".
    Quote:

    Most anodizing is not "hard". That's a term reserved for anodizing used for tools, and other surfaces getting severe use. Most anodizing is much thinner.



    While the anodized surface can be up to 73 in Rockwell hardness, the soft aluminum substrate indents, damaging the surface.



    I have several Maglights, and they are all scratched from use.



    And I have a Surefire with Type III anodizing. No scratches.
  • Reply 130 of 149
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,338member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gon View Post


    Ah. You meant "white". You said "while".And I have a Surefire with Type III anodizing. No scratches.



    Sorry for the typo. Spellcheck doesn't always help.



    Good for you. Type II simply means a "hard" anodized surface. It's a pretty simple, and basic, process. I even made an anodizing machine for my shop. I've done type I, II, and III, with coloring, and without.



    http://www.walgren.com/anodizing-systems.html
  • Reply 131 of 149
    gongon Posts: 2,437member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Type II simply means a "hard" anodized surface. It's a pretty simple, and basic, process. I even made an anodizing machine for my shop. I've done type I, II, and III, with coloring, and without.



    http://www.walgren.com/anodizing-systems.html



    Nice!



    Anyway, is there some reason Type III should not be used on laptops? Are color options limited?
  • Reply 132 of 149
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,338member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gon View Post


    Nice!



    Anyway, is there some reason Type III should not be used on laptops? Are color options limited?



    Oh no! It should be used there! But, it's more expensive, and I don't know what Apple spec's. I could tell with a scratch test, but most people, for some reason, won't allow that.



    I have almost 20 different dyes here for this purpose.



    Type II and II are best for coloring, because the anodized surface is thicker.



    The way anodizing works is to build up an oxidized surface.



    It's pretty amazing, and lucky, the way this happens. If you look down upon the surface from above with a microscope, it will look like honeycomb. The oxide builds up and down into the surface, with a crystalline structure that is hollow, just like honeycomb.



    Natural color anodizing is just the anodized surface, with the top of the open crystals sealed, with either boiling water, for most home use, or nickel acetate, which I use, and is used in industry, but needs very good ventilation.



    Coloring this just means that before the sealing step, the aluminum is put into a bath of dye, or colorant. It absorbs the dye into the pores of the surface, and is then sealed.



    The thicker coat of the type II and II processes allow thicker layers of dye, and a brighter, more saturated color. As anodizing does wear down over time, the thicker the layer, the longer it will last. But, you can see lighter areas on anodized surfaces caused by something rubbing the surface over time.
  • Reply 133 of 149
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    @ Matt_s



    The first link is an example of a high end addition plating of a MBA from Custom Choopers, a link I supplied to you earlier.
    This link is an interesting story about Jobs opinion of the Segway?then known as Ginger?when Kamden was demoing it for a few big wigs. Has good insight into the how and why of Apple product releases.
  • Reply 134 of 149
    matt_smatt_s Posts: 299member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    The first link is an example of a high end addition plating of a MBA from Custom Choopers, a link I supplied to you earlier.http://www.engadget.com/photos/gold-...ok-air/765949/



    I appreciate it but no thanks, that's not what I'm looking for nor does it interest me. I've been very plain and upfront about what I want, and precisely why I think Apple has been laying down on the job. It's time for Apple to reclaim their supposed design leadership role, and give us something new.



    Otherwise, it's just more of Think Same.
  • Reply 135 of 149
    imik-eimik-e Posts: 9member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by matt_s View Post


    I appreciate it but no thanks, that's not what I'm looking for nor does it interest me. I've been very plain and upfront about what I want, and precisely why I think Apple has been laying down on the job. It's time for Apple to reclaim their supposed design leadership role, and give us something new.



    Otherwise, it's just more of Think Same.



    Dude... what is your problem? If you don' t like the designs then.... go to the dark side and buy an ugly Dell. I don't understand why you're complaining like you don't have a choice. In life everything is either black and white. You either pick black or you pick white. None of us will ever be 100% happy about anything.



    Why don't you compare today's macbook with the macbook from a decade ago? Huge difference. If I were you, I would be happy with a computer that just works. Hey! At least you have a mac and it just works right?



    I don't know if anyone should actually feel sorry for you because you don't like Apple's laptop designs. I feel sorry for millions of PC users who have thousands of thing to complain about-- technical things. I don't think I've ever met a PC users who complain about ugly laptop designs or desktop computer designs. They just want a computer just works that works, and PC doesn't work like it's supposed to. Whatever laptop you have, it just works right? Then get over your hatred for aluminum.
  • Reply 136 of 149
    matt_smatt_s Posts: 299member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iMik-e View Post


    Dude... what is your problem? If you don' t like the designs then.... go to the dark side and buy an ugly Dell. I don't understand why you're complaining like you don't have a choice. In life everything is either black and white. You either pick black or you pick white. None of us will ever be 100% happy about anything.



    Why don't you compare today's macbook with the macbook from a decade ago? Huge difference. If I were you, I would be happy with a computer that just works. Hey! At least you have a mac and it just works right?



    I don't know if anyone should actually feel sorry for you because you don't like Apple's laptop designs. I feel sorry for millions of PC users who have thousands of thing to complain about-- technical things. I don't think I've ever met a PC users who complain about ugly laptop designs or desktop computer designs. They just want a computer just works that works, and PC doesn't work like it's supposed to. Whatever laptop you have, it just works right? Then get over your hatred for aluminum.



    OMG, you're so remarkably strange. Dude, why would I buy a Dell?



    You're talking to a guy who has purchased well over 400 total laptops from Apple since my first 165. You've bought what, 5? 10? 20? C'mon. You don't even belong in this conversation, and yet you're giving me shit about buying a Dell. How dare you, punk?



    Why do you give Apple a free pass when they stopped designing laptops 6-7-8 years ago?



    You don't know if you should feel sorry or not for me? Oh my heavens, my heart is broken. I'm crying now. Sob sob. How old are you,really?



    Get real, dude. Apple stopped doing shit and I'm taking them to the woodshed about it. Tough poopy you don't like it but you cannot deny the singular fact that the elderly Aluminum laptop you can buy today looks eerily like the same aluminum laptop you used to own in 2003.



    BOR - - ING!



    Year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year Apple dishes out the same boring crap all the time. How can you NOT BE SICK OF THIS SHIT??????? How? How is this possible? Where did we get off the highway, man?



    What's up dude? Are you sleeping or dead?????? No, I forgot, you're just happy with a computer that works. As I've said before in this forum, that's awesome that you don't expect much from Apple, because then you'll never be disappointed.



    But young goofball, tell me, please, how is this good? How is this good for you and me and our long term desire to continue to buy Mac laptops? You're looking at today, not tomorrow.



    Let's either get on with the new or just admit to ourselves we're stuck in a multiple year deep rut of zero design and we should all lay down, sigh to ourselves and Think Same.



    The new Apple slogan: THINK SAME. That's what we're now all about, man.
  • Reply 137 of 149
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by matt_s View Post


    OMG, you're so remarkably strange. Dude, why would I buy a Dell?



    You're talking to a guy who has purchased well over 400 total laptops from Apple since my first 165. You've bought what, 5? 10? 20? C'mon. You don't even belong in this conversation, and yet you're giving me shit about buying a Dell. How dare you, punk?



    Why do you give Apple a free pass when they stopped designing laptops 6-7-8 years ago?



    You don't know if you should feel sorry or not for me? Oh my heavens, my heart is broken. I'm crying now. Sob sob. How old are you,really?



    Get real, dude. Apple stopped doing shit and I'm taking them to the woodshed about it. Tough poopy you don't like it but you cannot deny the singular fact that the elderly Aluminum laptop you can buy today looks eerily like the same aluminum laptop you used to own in 2003.



    BOR - - ING!



    Year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year Apple dishes out the same boring crap all the time. How can you NOT BE SICK OF THIS SHIT??????? How? How is this possible? Where did we get off the highway, man?



    What's up dude? Are you sleeping or dead?????? No, I forgot, you're just happy with a computer that works. As I've said before in this forum, that's awesome that you don't expect much from Apple, because then you'll never be disappointed.



    But young goofball, tell me, please, how is this good? How is this good for you and me and our long term desire to continue to buy Mac laptops? You're looking at today, not tomorrow.



    Let's either get on with the new or just admit to ourselves we're stuck in a multiple year deep rut of zero design and we should all lay down, sigh to ourselves and Think Same.



    The new Apple slogan: THINK SAME. That's what we're now all about, man.



    I bet a doctor could prescribe you something nice.
  • Reply 138 of 149
    imik-eimik-e Posts: 9member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by matt_s View Post


    OMG, you're so remarkably strange. Dude, why would I buy a Dell?



    You're talking to a guy who has purchased well over 400 total laptops from Apple since my first 165. You've bought what, 5? 10? 20? C'mon. You don't even belong in this conversation, and yet you're giving me shit about buying a Dell. How dare you, punk?



    Why do you give Apple a free pass when they stopped designing laptops 6-7-8 years ago?



    You don't know if you should feel sorry or not for me? Oh my heavens, my heart is broken. I'm crying now. Sob sob. How old are you,really?



    Get real, dude. Apple stopped doing shit and I'm taking them to the woodshed about it. Tough poopy you don't like it but you cannot deny the singular fact that the elderly Aluminum laptop you can buy today looks eerily like the same aluminum laptop you used to own in 2003.



    BOR - - ING!



    Year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year Apple dishes out the same boring crap all the time. How can you NOT BE SICK OF THIS SHIT??????? How? How is this possible? Where did we get off the highway, man?



    What's up dude? Are you sleeping or dead?????? No, I forgot, you're just happy with a computer that works. As I've said before in this forum, that's awesome that you don't expect much from Apple, because then you'll never be disappointed.



    But young goofball, tell me, please, how is this good? How is this good for you and me and our long term desire to continue to buy Mac laptops? You're looking at today, not tomorrow.



    Let's either get on with the new or just admit to ourselves we're stuck in a multiple year deep rut of zero design and we should all lay down, sigh to ourselves and Think Same.



    The new Apple slogan: THINK SAME. That's what we're now all about, man.



    Apple's slogan: Think Different. Your Slogan: I'm A Bit*h!



    So your're all sarcastic about crying????? Dude I think you ARE crying.



    You complain about Apple's....um... how did that go.... oh, boring designs.... how did that go again... oh, Year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year.



    Guess what dude... you complain thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread .



    It's hard for anyone around here to understand why you think Apple's designs are boring. I think most of us can agree that your threads are boring also. If you don't like your aluminum laptop then smack yourself in the face with it. Apple's sales number is the perfect reason why we shouldn't listen to whiners like you. It's real simple... if you don't like the product, don't buy it. One less guy not buying Apple's laptop won't hurt their sales. Obviously you've got too much time on your hands, coming here and complain when you could've spray painted your laptop a thousand different colors. My advice to you... quit buying too many laptops, save your money and get yourself a psychiatrist.



    I hope Apple keeps pissi*g you off.
  • Reply 139 of 149
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,338member
    Matt seems to be very shallow. He just cares about looks. He doesn't really listen to any of the reasons we present. He says, sure, but?they have to look different.



    That's all it comes down to. I'm finding it more difficult every post to believe his statements on how many Mac's he's bought, and am beginning to wonder if he's just a troll.
  • Reply 140 of 149
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,667member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    ........

    The thicker coat of the type II and II processes allow thicker layers of dye, and a brighter, more saturated color. As anodizing does wear down over time, the thicker the layer, the longer it will last. But, you can see lighter areas on anodized surfaces caused by something rubbing the surface over time.



    Hi Melgross;



    It is obvious from this post that you have done a bit of anodizing but one thing comes up with respect to things like covers on an iPhone. That issue is the thickness of the base material, would you not run the risk of making thin materials brittle if attempting to anodizing the part heavily?



    This is just anecdotal but when working with thin anodized pats I often find that they have a brittle quality to them. I always thought this was the result of not enough base material being left with respect to the hardened anodized surface.



    Anyways Aluminum does seem to be a fad with Apple so I don't expect it to go away anytime soon. Personally I prefer plastic. Especially something like injection molded Ultem.



    Dave
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