Smarmy and supercilious? Me? Try this small sampling from the thread (trust me, I am only cutting-and-pasting):
-----
"And I bet you just luv AT&Fee"
"Do you plan on having children?" (I'll bet you'll pretend you don't recognize that one).
"The only morons are those who insists on exclusiveness of a hand-built European luxury car --- when robots in Japan can build a car that will have much better quality than any humans can."
"Here's an idea. Try getting a life."
------
Do you want me to go on?
I love it- anyone who states anything other than glowing descriptive about the iPhone has according to you- too much time on their hands. Yet you can cut and paste from not only this thread but dig up quotes from all the other threads endlessly.
AT&T never officially released its Christmas iPhone sales. Its subscriber base increased by 2.7 million for a record breaking single quarter increase.
The number of unlocked iPhones are only an estimate. And that estimate was only for a quarter not half.
AT&T has nearly 10 million more subscribers than Verizon.
This is just completely wrong.
AT&T is not in the business of selling cell phones --- they are in the business of selling cell phone services. Out of 2.7 million net adds, AT&T had 1.2 million retail postpaid net adds, 750K retail prepaid net adds and 750K wholesale MVNO prepaid net adds (Tracfone). Out of the 900K iphone activations in the quarter, 40% came from new subscribers --- which means 13.3% of the 2.7 million net adds came from the iphone.
Out of 2 million net adds, Verizon Wireless had 1.6 million retail postpaid net adds, 300K retail prepaid net adds and 100K wholesale MVNO prepaid net adds (GM OnStar, Helio).
In terms of retail subscriber base --- Verizon Wireless has more subscribers than AT&T. AT&T only beats Verizon in total number --- because of Tracfone's 9.5 million subscribers.
Tracfone saved AT&T's ass in the last 2 years --- nothing to do with the iphone.
The iPhone is not a flop in Europe. The iPhone has generated over a billion euros in sales in a few months time. In case you didn't know its difficult to make a billion euros from a product.
Apple's revenue sharing isn't entirely different from how most phones are sold. Apple takes payments over time instead of one payment as most phone manufacturers do.
You really have not been paying attention. Every mobile phone manufacturer is making touch screen phones. There are more now than their have ever been. The internal storage of phones is also increasing.
I hate the word "fanboy" but it applies to you. Anyone that does not sing the praises of Apple and "he who must not be named" a.k.a Steve Jobs (oppsss. named him), is immediately a hater or basher or Windows lover. You and those of your ilk tend to live in a Apple shaped, myopic world where all is wonderful. The real world is not like this. If I pay money for a product, I feel I have the right to criticize it.
Get a grip, man.
Before hurling epithets, why don't you take a fleeting look at the history of my posts, just the blurbs that appear as headlines and inform yourself..... nah, you are too busy wasting your time venting about things you don't like/own.
I love it- anyone who states anything other than glowing descriptive about the iPhone has according to you- too much time on their hands. Yet you can cut and paste from not only this thread but dig up quotes from all the other threads endlessly.
Oh, I do have time on my hand for defending things I like and own, and work for me.
Before hurling epithets, why don't you take a fleeting look at the history of my posts, just the blurbs that appear as headlines and inform yourself..... nah, you are too busy wasting your time venting about things you don't like/own.
If you spent more tie reading post then following the crowd you would see that i do own the products I criticize. I happen to live in the real world and not Steve Jobs pants. The points I made about the iPhone came from the very article that started this thread and from various news sources, sooooooo until you begin to have a clue what you are talking about, Foxtrot Oscar.
The LG Voyager was 6 months behind the iphone launch. Verizon didn't spend a dime on their Voyager. No people were lining up for the Voyager.
Verizon sold 1.1 million Voyagers in 4.5 months --- no bad for something that is not as polished as the iphone.
So you show an article showing Nokia missing it's targets, seeing a global slowdown, and their stock getting hit. Again how many Voyaguers have been sold to date, 1.1 million, so they haven't sold more than Apple.
So you show an article showing Nokia missing it's targets, seeing a global slowdown, and their stock getting hit. Again how many Voyaguers have been sold to date, 1.1 million, so they haven't sold more than Apple.
Of course, the iphone sales is higher.
But that's not the main point. The main point is that other carriers will see that Verizon has done ZERO advertising blitz, had not lowered monthly plan prices, gets to keep 100% of the revenue --- and the iphone activation is only slightly higher by a hair.
Whatever dude... Do you think anyone is going to line up for the 3g iPhone? Doubt it. You got sucked in by the hype buddy - No one believes the hype this time round.
I think a big factor behind the iPhone's flop in Europe is that people actually read newspapers there and they heard what Jobs was doing to the carriers with the whole revenue sharing hoo haa. The chutzpah of that guy is unbelievable. I would never buy an iPhone, mainly for that very reason - Apple has to learn some respect. If I think a company is a pack of wankers, then I am not going to buy their product am I? I couldn't give a rats arse how good the product is. (by the way, I dont think they are a patch on Nokias)
So much for a game changing phone. Yes, Nokia is producing a touch screen phone, thats about the only big thing to have come out of this. Is Symbian still powering Nokia Phones. Yes it is. Have phone manufacturers rushed headlong into producing touch screen phones? Not really. Nothing much has changed with the major manufacturers. The iPhone just doesn't sell that well, for business use it is a fundamentally flawed device. Major companies still use the Blackberry for everything.
What other phone in France is offered on one carrier, at a premium price, on a premium contract, and far outsells the iPhone? At the current costs Apple may have not expected to sell much more than 850 a day.
The problem with this is that it uses one narrow measurement to determine success or failure. In real life business does not work that way. Dell sells 10 times more computers than Apple. While Apple is far more profitable and is growing faster. Just because you sell more does not mean your business is profitable or viable.
The iPhone could be selling 2 million units a quarter while Nokia is selling 50 million smartphones a quarter. The iPhone could be making as much profit for Apple as Nokia's entire smartphone lines combined. Apple is at the beginning of building the iPhone platform and has plenty of time.
Every mobile carrier that subsidizes phones for contract buys the phone from the manufacturer. The money they pay to the manufacturer is an expense that comes out of their profits. Instead of taking one payment Apple is taking payments over 24 months. Its basically the same either way.
Yes we are hearing that China Mobile is hesitant to deal with the iPhone because of the revenue sharing. At the same time both parties acknowledge that negotiations have not even begun. Apple could certainly propose do it the other way and have China Mobile pay the equivalent of 24 months of revenue in one payment up front.
Nicely said, look at Dell, they sell more computers than Apple but yet they are cutting jobs.
But that's not the main point. The main point is that other carriers will see that Verizon has done ZERO advertising blitz, had not lowered monthly plan prices, gets to keep 100% of the revenue --- and the iphone activation is only slightly higher by a hair.
Last time I checked 4 million and 1.1 million are not even remotely close. iphone is also the most used phone for browsing the internet in the States and 2nd in the world despite with only 4 million units out there. Was the Voyaguer even a blip on the radar in terms of internet usage, iphone is leading in consumer satisfactory, we love our iphones, amd it shows in all the studies being released, consumers are using their iphones to watch media, listen to songs, than any other phone, anyways you slice it, the iphone is a game changer.
If you spent more tie reading post then following the crowd you would see that i do own the products I criticize. I happen to live in the real world and not Steve Jobs pants. The points I made about the iPhone came from the very article that started this thread and from various news sources, sooooooo until you begin to have a clue what you are talking about, Foxtrot Oscar.
Yeah exactly... the title of this thread was "France's Orange may be next to cut iPhone price, eat losses - reports" Good starter for a bit of debate I thought.
Instead some people need to go getting all emotional and start carrying on about something that leaves everyone else scratching their heads.
And if I get a bit vitriolic about Apple, I'm in good company - Europe is a big place and I think they agree. And I dont think I am going to far by saying that a lot of that belief is catalysed by Apple's unfathomable arrogance with major mobile operators. So much so that many of them have Apple to sod off. Thats my major beef with them, its very widely publicised and most Europeans who are likely buyers of this device are aware of Apples approach to selling it.
If you look at the numbers, they do NOT look good for Apple - not In Europe, even in America. In my corner of the world, Australia, Telstra hasn't been able to reach an agreement with Apple and they are the only network that can really use the iPhone to its full ability (the only network with EDGE). They have double the coverage of the next operator and one would assume that on the back of these two points Apple would instantly prefer them. Telstra told Apple to piss off.
Same thing with China. China Mobile told them to piss off too. "We do not share revenue. Period"
I wonder how many other operators told Apple the same thing.
All up, I am not so against the device, I mean hell, its not for me anyway, I am a 3g network designer and I use the qualcomm uber brick of a phone that we use to test the network with anyway. So the hardware is of limited interest to me. My other phone is a Nokia. Tried, tested, hammered, submerged, and still works.
Apple is going to have to learn to take a different approach in a market it has very limited experience in if it wants to succeed. Its that simple.
Nicely said, look at Dell, they sell more computers than Apple but yet they are cutting jobs.
Seriously that has a lot more to do with business and consumer sentiment than anything else. In a market downturn companies lay staff off. And what we have at the moment could very easily be construed as a market downturn.
One wouldn't be surprised to see many companies cutting staff.
Seriously that has a lot more to do with business and consumer sentiment than anything else. In a market downturn companies lay staff off. And what we have at the moment could very easily be construed as a market downturn.
One wouldn't be surprised to see many companies cutting staff.
I guess Apple also being more profitable than Dell despite selling less computers than them also doesn't mean much.
Comments
AT&T has nearly 10 million more subscribers than Verizon.
.
And is at the bottom of the barrel in ratings for customer service and signal. More does not necessarily mean better.
Smarmy and supercilious? Me? Try this small sampling from the thread (trust me, I am only cutting-and-pasting):
-----
"And I bet you just luv AT&Fee"
"Do you plan on having children?" (I'll bet you'll pretend you don't recognize that one).
"The only morons are those who insists on exclusiveness of a hand-built European luxury car --- when robots in Japan can build a car that will have much better quality than any humans can."
"Here's an idea. Try getting a life."
------
Do you want me to go on?
I love it- anyone who states anything other than glowing descriptive about the iPhone has according to you- too much time on their hands. Yet you can cut and paste from not only this thread but dig up quotes from all the other threads endlessly.
AT&T never officially released its Christmas iPhone sales. Its subscriber base increased by 2.7 million for a record breaking single quarter increase.
The number of unlocked iPhones are only an estimate. And that estimate was only for a quarter not half.
AT&T has nearly 10 million more subscribers than Verizon.
This is just completely wrong.
AT&T is not in the business of selling cell phones --- they are in the business of selling cell phone services. Out of 2.7 million net adds, AT&T had 1.2 million retail postpaid net adds, 750K retail prepaid net adds and 750K wholesale MVNO prepaid net adds (Tracfone). Out of the 900K iphone activations in the quarter, 40% came from new subscribers --- which means 13.3% of the 2.7 million net adds came from the iphone.
Out of 2 million net adds, Verizon Wireless had 1.6 million retail postpaid net adds, 300K retail prepaid net adds and 100K wholesale MVNO prepaid net adds (GM OnStar, Helio).
In terms of retail subscriber base --- Verizon Wireless has more subscribers than AT&T. AT&T only beats Verizon in total number --- because of Tracfone's 9.5 million subscribers.
Tracfone saved AT&T's ass in the last 2 years --- nothing to do with the iphone.
This is chock full of inaccuracies.
The iPhone is not a flop in Europe. The iPhone has generated over a billion euros in sales in a few months time. In case you didn't know its difficult to make a billion euros from a product.
Apple's revenue sharing isn't entirely different from how most phones are sold. Apple takes payments over time instead of one payment as most phone manufacturers do.
You really have not been paying attention. Every mobile phone manufacturer is making touch screen phones. There are more now than their have ever been. The internal storage of phones is also increasing.
350K units in Europe x $450 = $160 million.
A great big Apple love party?
Why not? Sounds like fun!
I
I hate the word "fanboy" but it applies to you. Anyone that does not sing the praises of Apple and "he who must not be named" a.k.a Steve Jobs (oppsss. named him), is immediately a hater or basher or Windows lover. You and those of your ilk tend to live in a Apple shaped, myopic world where all is wonderful. The real world is not like this. If I pay money for a product, I feel I have the right to criticize it.
Get a grip, man.
Before hurling epithets, why don't you take a fleeting look at the history of my posts, just the blurbs that appear as headlines and inform yourself..... nah, you are too busy wasting your time venting about things you don't like/own.
I love it- anyone who states anything other than glowing descriptive about the iPhone has according to you- too much time on their hands. Yet you can cut and paste from not only this thread but dig up quotes from all the other threads endlessly.
Oh, I do have time on my hand for defending things I like and own, and work for me.
Get a grip, man.
Before hurling epithets, why don't you take a fleeting look at the history of my posts, just the blurbs that appear as headlines and inform yourself..... nah, you are too busy wasting your time venting about things you don't like/own.
If you spent more tie reading post then following the crowd you would see that i do own the products I criticize. I happen to live in the real world and not Steve Jobs pants. The points I made about the iPhone came from the very article that started this thread and from various news sources, sooooooo until you begin to have a clue what you are talking about, Foxtrot Oscar.
Then the only reason why iphone outsold the voyager was that Apple desperately wanted some sales figures and drop the price by 200 dollars.
Okay Apple got desperate and dropped the price, just tell us how much Voyageurs have been sold, so far we know Apple has sold 4 million iphones.
And I bet you just luv AT&Fee
Sure do.
And Nokia is getting kicked around by LG.
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/...1-24592004.htm
The LG Voyager was 6 months behind the iphone launch. Verizon didn't spend a dime on their Voyager. No people were lining up for the Voyager.
Verizon sold 1.1 million Voyagers in 4.5 months --- no bad for something that is not as polished as the iphone.
So you show an article showing Nokia missing it's targets, seeing a global slowdown, and their stock getting hit. Again how many Voyaguers have been sold to date, 1.1 million, so they haven't sold more than Apple.
So you show an article showing Nokia missing it's targets, seeing a global slowdown, and their stock getting hit. Again how many Voyaguers have been sold to date, 1.1 million, so they haven't sold more than Apple.
Of course, the iphone sales is higher.
But that's not the main point. The main point is that other carriers will see that Verizon has done ZERO advertising blitz, had not lowered monthly plan prices, gets to keep 100% of the revenue --- and the iphone activation is only slightly higher by a hair.
Whatever dude... Do you think anyone is going to line up for the 3g iPhone? Doubt it. You got sucked in by the hype buddy - No one believes the hype this time round.
I think a big factor behind the iPhone's flop in Europe is that people actually read newspapers there and they heard what Jobs was doing to the carriers with the whole revenue sharing hoo haa. The chutzpah of that guy is unbelievable. I would never buy an iPhone, mainly for that very reason - Apple has to learn some respect. If I think a company is a pack of wankers, then I am not going to buy their product am I? I couldn't give a rats arse how good the product is. (by the way, I dont think they are a patch on Nokias)
So much for a game changing phone. Yes, Nokia is producing a touch screen phone, thats about the only big thing to have come out of this. Is Symbian still powering Nokia Phones. Yes it is. Have phone manufacturers rushed headlong into producing touch screen phones? Not really. Nothing much has changed with the major manufacturers. The iPhone just doesn't sell that well, for business use it is a fundamentally flawed device. Major companies still use the Blackberry for everything.
So now American's don't read newspapers ?
All you've got to do is take a look at:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/07/h...ge-nokias-n95/
and your statement is more true than you could possibly imagine.
The N95 sounds like a complete disaster!
So you mean no phone is perfect, not even the N95, who would have thought.
What exactly are you basing this on?
What other phone in France is offered on one carrier, at a premium price, on a premium contract, and far outsells the iPhone? At the current costs Apple may have not expected to sell much more than 850 a day.
The problem with this is that it uses one narrow measurement to determine success or failure. In real life business does not work that way. Dell sells 10 times more computers than Apple. While Apple is far more profitable and is growing faster. Just because you sell more does not mean your business is profitable or viable.
The iPhone could be selling 2 million units a quarter while Nokia is selling 50 million smartphones a quarter. The iPhone could be making as much profit for Apple as Nokia's entire smartphone lines combined. Apple is at the beginning of building the iPhone platform and has plenty of time.
Every mobile carrier that subsidizes phones for contract buys the phone from the manufacturer. The money they pay to the manufacturer is an expense that comes out of their profits. Instead of taking one payment Apple is taking payments over 24 months. Its basically the same either way.
Yes we are hearing that China Mobile is hesitant to deal with the iPhone because of the revenue sharing. At the same time both parties acknowledge that negotiations have not even begun. Apple could certainly propose do it the other way and have China Mobile pay the equivalent of 24 months of revenue in one payment up front.
Nicely said, look at Dell, they sell more computers than Apple but yet they are cutting jobs.
And is at the bottom of the barrel in ratings for customer service and signal. More does not necessarily mean better.
So Verizon is not "kicking" AT&T like was said earlier on.
Of course, the iphone sales is higher.
But that's not the main point. The main point is that other carriers will see that Verizon has done ZERO advertising blitz, had not lowered monthly plan prices, gets to keep 100% of the revenue --- and the iphone activation is only slightly higher by a hair.
Last time I checked 4 million and 1.1 million are not even remotely close. iphone is also the most used phone for browsing the internet in the States and 2nd in the world despite with only 4 million units out there. Was the Voyaguer even a blip on the radar in terms of internet usage, iphone is leading in consumer satisfactory, we love our iphones, amd it shows in all the studies being released, consumers are using their iphones to watch media, listen to songs, than any other phone, anyways you slice it, the iphone is a game changer.
If you spent more tie reading post then following the crowd you would see that i do own the products I criticize. I happen to live in the real world and not Steve Jobs pants. The points I made about the iPhone came from the very article that started this thread and from various news sources, sooooooo until you begin to have a clue what you are talking about, Foxtrot Oscar.
Yeah exactly... the title of this thread was "France's Orange may be next to cut iPhone price, eat losses - reports" Good starter for a bit of debate I thought.
Instead some people need to go getting all emotional and start carrying on about something that leaves everyone else scratching their heads.
And if I get a bit vitriolic about Apple, I'm in good company - Europe is a big place and I think they agree. And I dont think I am going to far by saying that a lot of that belief is catalysed by Apple's unfathomable arrogance with major mobile operators. So much so that many of them have Apple to sod off. Thats my major beef with them, its very widely publicised and most Europeans who are likely buyers of this device are aware of Apples approach to selling it.
If you look at the numbers, they do NOT look good for Apple - not In Europe, even in America. In my corner of the world, Australia, Telstra hasn't been able to reach an agreement with Apple and they are the only network that can really use the iPhone to its full ability (the only network with EDGE). They have double the coverage of the next operator and one would assume that on the back of these two points Apple would instantly prefer them. Telstra told Apple to piss off.
Same thing with China. China Mobile told them to piss off too. "We do not share revenue. Period"
I wonder how many other operators told Apple the same thing.
All up, I am not so against the device, I mean hell, its not for me anyway, I am a 3g network designer and I use the qualcomm uber brick of a phone that we use to test the network with anyway. So the hardware is of limited interest to me. My other phone is a Nokia. Tried, tested, hammered, submerged, and still works.
Apple is going to have to learn to take a different approach in a market it has very limited experience in if it wants to succeed. Its that simple.
Nicely said, look at Dell, they sell more computers than Apple but yet they are cutting jobs.
Seriously that has a lot more to do with business and consumer sentiment than anything else. In a market downturn companies lay staff off. And what we have at the moment could very easily be construed as a market downturn.
One wouldn't be surprised to see many companies cutting staff.
Seriously that has a lot more to do with business and consumer sentiment than anything else. In a market downturn companies lay staff off. And what we have at the moment could very easily be construed as a market downturn.
One wouldn't be surprised to see many companies cutting staff.
I guess Apple also being more profitable than Dell despite selling less computers than them also doesn't mean much.