The article forgets to mention the much debated notion here on AppleInsider that all the low French and European iPhone sales are due to them being purchased here in NYC due to the exchange rate difference. They need to factor all those missing AT&T phones into the picture.
Remember: The French and europeans plan their vacations around buying an iPhone!
1. I phone is still on track or slightly behind Apple's target based on the last official conference at Apple's headquarters.
2. Slowing sales of I phones is caused by rumors and reports of the new 3G I phone coming soon.
That's all, and Apple has enough time to make up the numbers by the end of the year.
3. Most cell phone companies are rushing and few have already introduced their version of a look a like Iphone which translates to the success of the Apple I phone.Would not make sense to copy Apple's product unless the competition sees the product as a threat, would you?
4. Apple has only made 1 phone and set a goal of taking 1% market share from the competitors.
What happens if Apple releases several types of phones similar to the way they have the I pod
types of choices. We will find out and bet on their success, because not a single company saw it coming when the Ipods were released over 5 years ago.
5. If Iphone was not a success the stock would not be at the current price which is over $160.
It would be below $100 a share if the phone was a failure. Analysts, critics and millions of investors keep an eye specifacally on the phone sales before they look at the Macs and Ipods sales.
:When is the last time the media was there or people stood in line for days to buy Nokia, Blackberry, Samsung, or others...... Not bad, Apple.
For a company that never made a cell phone before.
Whatever dude... Do you think anyone is going to line up for the 3g iPhone? Doubt it. You got sucked in by the hype buddy - No one believes the hype this time round.
I think a big factor behind the iPhone's flop in Europe is that people actually read newspapers there and they heard what Jobs was doing to the carriers with the whole revenue sharing hoo haa. The chutzpah of that guy is unbelievable. I would never buy an iPhone, mainly for that very reason - Apple has to learn some respect. If I think a company is a pack of wankers, then I am not going to buy their product am I? I couldn't give a rats arse how good the product is. (by the way, I dont think they are a patch on Nokias)
So much for a game changing phone. Yes, Nokia is producing a touch screen phone, thats about the only big thing to have come out of this. Is Symbian still powering Nokia Phones. Yes it is. Have phone manufacturers rushed headlong into producing touch screen phones? Not really. Nothing much has changed with the major manufacturers. The iPhone just doesn't sell that well, for business use it is a fundamentally flawed device. Major companies still use the Blackberry for everything.
Whatever dude... Do you think anyone is going to line up for the 3g iPhone? ... You got sucked in by the hype buddy - No one believes the hype .... I would never buy an iPhone.... Apple has to learn some respect. I couldn't give a rats arse how good the product is.....
Oh boy. Another one with time one his hands that supposedly has no interest in the iPhone! These guys keep proving my point... (and, Jules, in case you're wondering what I am referring to, check out #78 above).
The iPhone failing in Europe so spectacularly has put a big on my face - love it!
You are playing pretty fast and loose with the facts to prove this point. You highlight certain facts and completely ignore others that don’t support your assertion.
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1) AT&T's activation numbers stalled in the christmas quarter
AT&T never officially released its Christmas iPhone sales. Its subscriber base increased by 2.7 million for a record breaking single quarter increase.
Quote:
2) American sales numbers are not really American when 1/2 of them are shipped overseas.
The number of unlocked iPhones are only an estimate. And that estimate was only for a quarter not half.
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3) Verizon Wireless did absolulely nothing to counter the iphone and still gets better postpaid net adds than AT&T since the iphone was launched.
AT&T has nearly 10 million more subscribers than Verizon.
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Verizon beating the crap out of AT&T means everything --- and I didn't mean selling phones --- I meant the number of subscribers signing 2 years contracts with Verizon. It showed the rest of the world that you can survive without the iphone exclusive.
This is just completely wrong.
Quote:
These people are so satisfied with the iphone that 1/3 of the users have to carry a second phone.
This is nothing new. People have been carrying two phones long before the iPhone existed. Most of the time its because one is a business phone and the other is a personal phone. These people have little choice in their business phone. But they can choose their personal phone.
The other way to look at this is that there is such demand for the iPhone people are willing to carry two smartphones.
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Verizon sold 1.1 million Voyagers in 4.5 months --- no bad for something that is not as polished as the iphone.
Verizon gives the Voyager away with a cheaper contract. Of course its going to sell more units. That’s simple economics.
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But just for fun. European sales of N95 - 7m in under 12 months, iPhone 330,000. Thats only 21:1 I was wrong then.
You cannot compare the N95 and the iPhone in this way. The business models and sales prices are completely different.
The N95 is sold on nearly every carrier in every industrialized nation. Its given away free with a cheaper contract. The N95 should sell more than the iPhone. This proves nothing.
I think a big factor behind the iPhone's flop in Europe is that people actually read newspapers there and they heard what Jobs was doing to the carriers with the whole revenue sharing hoo haa. The chutzpah of that guy is unbelievable. I would never buy an iPhone, mainly for that very reason - Apple has to learn some respect. I couldn't give a rats arse how good the product is. (by the way, I dont think they are a patch on Nokias)
So much for a game changing phone. Yes, Nokia is producing a touch screen phone, thats about the only big thing to have come out of this. Is Symbian still powering Nokia Phones. Yes it is. Have phone manufacturers rushed headlong into producing touch screen phones? Not really. Nothing much has changed with the major manufacturers. The iPhone just doesn't sell that well, for business use it is a fundamentally flawed device. Major companies still use the Blackberry for everything.
This is chock full of inaccuracies.
The iPhone is not a flop in Europe. The iPhone has generated over a billion euros in sales in a few months time. In case you didn't know its difficult to make a billion euros from a product.
Apple's revenue sharing isn't entirely different from how most phones are sold. Apple takes payments over time instead of one payment as most phone manufacturers do.
You really have not been paying attention. Every mobile phone manufacturer is making touch screen phones. There are more now than their have ever been. The internal storage of phones is also increasing.
The iPhone is not a flop in Europe. The iPhone has generated over a billion euros in sales in a few months time. In case you didn't know its difficult to make a billion euros from a product.
Apple's revenue sharing isn't entirely different from how most phones are sold. Apple takes payments over time instead of one payment as most phone manufacturers do.
You really have not been paying attention. Every mobile phone manufacturer is making touch screen phones. There are more now than their have ever been. The internal storage of phones is also increasing.
France sells what was it... 850 a day. Now if that was say the Shetland Islands or Fiji, I would say its selling fairly well. But this is a country of 60000000 people. 850 60000000 850 60000000. Now I'm no market analyst, but I can spot a disaster when I see one. And thats a disaster. This is a consumer product, not an A380.
And for your information Apples revenue sharing IS entirely different from the way every other mobile is sold. Apple tales a share of the what the company takes in. If you dont believe its different, explain why no Chinese operator will deal with Apple. "We dont share revenue. Period" Wang Jianzhou, China Mobile's chairman said. Now if that doesn't imply to you that the model is different, what does?
Oh and more memory being added to phones is an Apple thing? wa?
Oh boy. Another one with time one his hands that supposedly has no interest in the iPhone! These guys keep proving my point... (and, Jules, in case you're wondering what I am referring to, check out #78 above).
Well what do you want then - A great big Apple love party?
The people I had debates with last year about the chances of the iPhone in Europe, where are you all now? I don't suppose there is any chance you will be joining this thread to admit how wrong you were?
Nah! didn't think so, that seems to be the trouble with many of the regulars on here, they will swear blind that Steve Jobs can walk on water and when his feet get a little wet they close their eyes, cover their ears and go "nah nah nah nah nah nah, we never saw that!".
The iPhone v1 was never going to set the world alight in Europe, lack of 3G and MMS was huge but the cost and the deals with carriers was always going to put it on a back foot against the likes of Nokia.
I worked in the UK mobile industry for years and wrote many many posts on this subject, posts that were based on years of experience of this market. But of course some spotty American kid with a 3 year old imac knows better! That has always been the problem with this site.
France sells what was it... 850 a day. Now if that was say the Shetland Islands or Fiji, I would say its selling fairly well. But this is a country of 60000000 people. 850 60000000 850 60000000. Now I'm no market analyst, but I can spot a disaster when I see one. And thats a disaster. This is a consumer product, not an A380.
What exactly are you basing this on?
What other phone in France is offered on one carrier, at a premium price, on a premium contract, and far outsells the iPhone? At the current costs Apple may have not expected to sell much more than 850 a day.
The problem with this is that it uses one narrow measurement to determine success or failure. In real life business does not work that way. Dell sells 10 times more computers than Apple. While Apple is far more profitable and is growing faster. Just because you sell more does not mean your business is profitable or viable.
The iPhone could be selling 2 million units a quarter while Nokia is selling 50 million smartphones a quarter. The iPhone could be making as much profit for Apple as Nokia's entire smartphone lines combined. Apple is at the beginning of building the iPhone platform and has plenty of time.
Quote:
And for your information Apples revenue sharing IS entirely different from the way every other mobile is sold. Apple tales a share of the what the company takes in. If you dont believe its different, explain why no Chinese operator will deal with Apple. "We dont share revenue. Period" Wang Jianzhou, China Mobile's chairman said. Now if that doesn't explain to you that the model is different, what does?
Every mobile carrier that subsidizes phones for contract buys the phone from the manufacturer. The money they pay to the manufacturer is an expense that comes out of their profits. Instead of taking one payment Apple is taking payments over 24 months. Its basically the same either way.
Yes we are hearing that China Mobile is hesitant to deal with the iPhone because of the revenue sharing. At the same time both parties acknowledge that negotiations have not even begun. Apple could certainly propose do it the other way and have China Mobile pay the equivalent of 24 months of revenue in one payment up front.
The iPhone v1 was never going to set the world alight in Europe, lack of 3G and MMS was huge but the cost and the deals with carriers was always going to put it on a back foot against the likes of Nokia.
I think its early to say for sure. Sony/Ericson has had a slide in sales.
Much of these sales numbers are played for sensationalism. But divorce the actual profitability of each business model. Apple has certainly made a lot of money from European iPhone sales. O2 has been happy and reported healthy profits from its iPhone sales. Ultimately that is what matters most.
I'm amused that they slap an enormous price on it and then wonder why it doesn't sell well.
Sure someone can say "this amount of people bought it at this price and we made a profit so it must not be too expensive" but I'm just not convinced the price is hitting the right spot on the supply/demand graph.
I hope Apple take the message on board and aren't banking solely on 3G making all the issues go away. I'm confident they'll work something out.
Hate to break it to you.. but Apple has something on the horizon also.. and i bet it'll be to the market before your Nokia surprise.
You have proven consistently that you can't break anything to anyone unless you consider how exponentially stupid you seem to get with post after post. Your record for ignorance in jeopardy by you and you alone. It is not my Nokia surprise but that of Nokia's. Wait, you just broke your own record again.
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Who are these mystery people that carry around another cell phone alongside their IPHONE? And for what logical reason? The N82 you refer to looks nice.. but it looks like my canon digital camera interface... which isn't the most intuitive by any means. It retails for $629 and isn't supported or offered for sale on any US networks. The only features it offers that best the IPHONE are a better camera definitely and the GPS. But apple has visual voicemail, multi-touch, bigger screen, and is slimmer... I'll trade camera and gps for better interface and better design any day. Just personal taste...
The N82 released a black version that was only avail in the US. Once again you have a problem knowing what is released and what isn't. Make the Internet your best friend and stop guessing. Also get a spec sheet and compare the N82 features to the iPhone and see what's missing. One word: DOH!!!!!
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I work in the entertainment industry... so the IPHONE is FAR ahead of any phone in meeting my daily needs. I need to send quicktimes to clients from my mac on a daily basis. Most of the executive producers are out and about and check the quicktimes on the go. Not to mention the multimedia features are excellent for displaying my reel ect.
I guess circus clown is still entertainment. Try sending a file from your iPhone. Ohhhh, that's right, you can't. How about making a VoIP call. Ooooppssss.... You can't.
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I want a phone that syncs and works well with my mac at home and at work... I'd imagine posters on Apple Insider would want the same... but i guess you guys all use PC's... in that case keep your windows mobile phones, makes sense why you prefer them.
Well, you broke your record again. You made an assumption. I own nothing but Macs, however I have had the pleasure of having truly high end, unlocked phones where I can install what I want to suit my needs. If you had read on instead of jumping in hip deep in crap, you would have seen that I mentioned having an iPhone. It must really suck being you?
Heh heh, fascinating to read all the back-and-forth. I can understand the people who like the iPhone singing its praises and defending it. What I can't understand is why those who can't stand this thing (and presumably, therefore don't own it) waste their time venting their spleen. Don't you guys have something else to do - like, don't you have a job or life or something? (Esp. that guy who was dispensing advice to someone to get out of his mother's basement, etc).
I wrote the basement comment and it still stands. I like the iPhone for what it does. Play media well. As a phone, it is pretty terrible unless you want to simply call, or send one SMS at a time to individuals. It is woefully underwhelming as a phone. Apple could have done better. They should have hired some Nokia or SE guys to give them a hand in developing a phone rather than developing an iPod then sticking in a phone.
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Please know that this is truly an honest question: Why are you wasting so much of your time over something you do not own and hence really shouldn't matter a great deal from the standpoint of your existence?
I hate the word "fanboy" but it applies to you. Anyone that does not sing the praises of Apple and "he who must not be named" a.k.a Steve Jobs (oppsss. named him), is immediately a hater or basher or Windows lover. You and those of your ilk tend to live in a Apple shaped, myopic world where all is wonderful. The real world is not like this. If I pay money for a product, I feel I have the right to criticize it.
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Some of you sound bitter,* like you've either been laid off by phone companies or got dissed by Apple's SDK folks or..... whatever......
I work for the State Department, so you don't have to worry about my job.
What other phone in France is offered on one carrier, at a premium price, on a premium contract, and far outsells the iPhone? At the current costs Apple may have not expected to sell much more than 850 a day.
Yeah and Apple's going to be making a pile of cash on that one. Apple are in the business of seeling phones and making money. 1) They are selling bugger all phones and 2) They wont be making any money out of it.
The problem with this is that it uses one narrow measurement to determine success or failure. In real life business does not work that way. Dell sells 10 times more computers than Apple. While Apple is far more profitable and is growing faster. Just because you sell more does not mean your business is profitable or viable.
The iPhone could be selling 2 million units a quarter while Nokia is selling 50 million smartphones a quarter. The iPhone could be making as much profit for Apple as Nokia's entire smartphone lines combined. Apple is at the beginning of building the iPhone platform and has plenty of time.
I'll bet you an A380 that they change their business model sometime very soon. So much for niche products that make them loads of cash - they are dumping stock in Germany. 99 Euros gets you an iPhone these days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell
Every mobile carrier that subsidizes phones for contract buys the phone from the manufacturer. The money they pay to the manufacturer is an expense that comes out of their profits. Instead of taking one payment Apple is taking payments over 24 months. Its basically the same either way.
Yes we are hearing that China Mobile is hesitant to deal with the iPhone because of the revenue sharing. At the same time both parties acknowledge that negotiations have not even begun. Apple could certainly propose do it the other way and have China Mobile pay the equivalent of 24 months of revenue in one payment up front.
I wont bother with this one sorry. Try doing a bit more reading. Preferrably wiith both eyes open. But at least one.
Yeah and Apple's going to be making a pile of cash on that one. Apple are in the business of seeling phones and making money. 1) They are selling bugger all phones and 2) There wont be making any money out of it.
The problem with this is that it uses one narrow measurement to determine success or failure. In real life business does not work that way. Dell sells 10 times more computers than Apple. While Apple is far more profitable and is growing faster. Just because you sell more does not mean your business is profitable or viable.
The iPhone could be selling 2 million units a quarter while Nokia is selling 50 million smartphones a quarter. The iPhone could be making as much profit for Apple as Nokia's entire smartphone lines combined. Apple is at the beginning of building the iPhone platform and has plenty of time.
I'll bet you an A380 that they change their business model sometime very soon. So much for niche products that make them loads of cash - they are dumping stock in Germany. 99 Euros gets you an iPhone these days.
I wont bother with this one sorry. Try doing a bit more reading. Preferrably wiith both eyes open. But at least one.[/QUOTE]
Nice one Jules. As an American currently living in Europe, then on to somewhere else, I can say that many to most Americans need to get a passport and get out of the country and realize that abroad is not actually Canada or Mexico. This debate on the iPhone is proof positive of this. Apple thought they could bring that old and out dated model to Europe and people would fall for it. It was tried with branding and that died. People buy the phones and unbrand them as fast as they can get their phone recognized by their PC or Mac. Finland told Apple to go shove the iPhone. The operators here laughed at the 3 year old technology that was being pawned off as innovating and revolutionary. Touch screens how been around for quite a while, so to the European masses, the iPhone was nothing new. Now, the iPod Touch was something different. I would like to see the sales numbers for these.
I'll bet you an A380 that they change their business model sometime very soon. So much for niche products that make them loads of cash - they are dumping stock in Germany. 99 Euros gets you an iPhone these days.
I wont bother with this one sorry. Try doing a bit more reading. Preferrably wiith both eyes open. But at least one.
Nice one Jules. As an American currently living in Europe, then on to somewhere else, I can say that many to most Americans need to get a passport and get out of the country and realize that abroad is not actually Canada or Mexico. This debate on the iPhone is proof positive of this. Apple thought they could bring that old and out dated model to Europe and people would fall for it. It was tried with branding and that died. People buy the phones and unbrand them as fast as they can get their phone recognized by their PC or Mac. Finland told Apple to go shove the iPhone. The operators here laughed at the 3 year old technology that was being pawned off as innovating and revolutionary. Touch screens how been around for quite a while, so to the European masses, the iPhone was nothing new. Now, the iPod Touch was something different. I would like to see the sales numbers for these.
You have a point there. Before anyone says I am an Apple basher I own two Macs and an iPod Touch. I love that gadget. The sound only comes out of one channel most of the time and Apple refuses to honor any warranty here in the Ukraine, which pisses me off, but the iPod Touch is very much in a class of its own. Sure, it's similar to the iPhone but its where Apple bascially got everything completely right the first time round. And there's no revenue sharing model to deal with
And I'm a Kiwi living in the Ukraine... beat that...
You have a point there. Before anyone says I am an Apple basher I own two Macs and an iPod Touch. I love that gadget. The sound only comes out of one channel most of the time and Apple refuses to honor any warranty here in the Ukraine, which pisses me off, but the iPod Touch is very much in a class of its own. Sure, it's similar to the iPhone but its where Apple bascially got everything completely right the first time round. And there's no revenue sharing model to deal with
And I'm a Kiwi living in the Ukraine... beat that...
You might have me beat. I am an american living in Finland at the moment.
Oh boy. Another one with time one his hands that supposedly has no interest in the iPhone! These guys keep proving my point... (and, Jules, in case you're wondering what I am referring to, check out #78 above).
Dude - you have no point other than expressing your own self-righteousness in owning an iPhone. You've contributed absolutely ziltch to this thread and are one of the ones on here previously that kept driving your ridiculous point that the French and Europeans plan their vacations to America in order to buy iPhones. This whole thread is about how the French and Europeans have no interest in the iPhone. So sorry you can't accept the story of the thread.
Comments
The article forgets to mention the much debated notion here on AppleInsider that all the low French and European iPhone sales are due to them being purchased here in NYC due to the exchange rate difference. They need to factor all those missing AT&T phones into the picture.
Remember: The French and europeans plan their vacations around buying an iPhone!
Dream on
1. I phone is still on track or slightly behind Apple's target based on the last official conference at Apple's headquarters.
2. Slowing sales of I phones is caused by rumors and reports of the new 3G I phone coming soon.
That's all, and Apple has enough time to make up the numbers by the end of the year.
3. Most cell phone companies are rushing and few have already introduced their version of a look a like Iphone which translates to the success of the Apple I phone.Would not make sense to copy Apple's product unless the competition sees the product as a threat, would you?
4. Apple has only made 1 phone and set a goal of taking 1% market share from the competitors.
What happens if Apple releases several types of phones similar to the way they have the I pod
types of choices. We will find out and bet on their success, because not a single company saw it coming when the Ipods were released over 5 years ago.
5. If Iphone was not a success the stock would not be at the current price which is over $160.
It would be below $100 a share if the phone was a failure. Analysts, critics and millions of investors keep an eye specifacally on the phone sales before they look at the Macs and Ipods sales.
For a company that never made a cell phone before.
Whatever dude... Do you think anyone is going to line up for the 3g iPhone? Doubt it. You got sucked in by the hype buddy - No one believes the hype this time round.
I think a big factor behind the iPhone's flop in Europe is that people actually read newspapers there and they heard what Jobs was doing to the carriers with the whole revenue sharing hoo haa. The chutzpah of that guy is unbelievable. I would never buy an iPhone, mainly for that very reason - Apple has to learn some respect. If I think a company is a pack of wankers, then I am not going to buy their product am I? I couldn't give a rats arse how good the product is. (by the way, I dont think they are a patch on Nokias)
So much for a game changing phone. Yes, Nokia is producing a touch screen phone, thats about the only big thing to have come out of this. Is Symbian still powering Nokia Phones. Yes it is. Have phone manufacturers rushed headlong into producing touch screen phones? Not really. Nothing much has changed with the major manufacturers. The iPhone just doesn't sell that well, for business use it is a fundamentally flawed device. Major companies still use the Blackberry for everything.
Whatever dude... Do you think anyone is going to line up for the 3g iPhone? ... You got sucked in by the hype buddy - No one believes the hype .... I would never buy an iPhone.... Apple has to learn some respect. I couldn't give a rats arse how good the product is.....
Oh boy. Another one with time one his hands that supposedly has no interest in the iPhone! These guys keep proving my point... (and, Jules, in case you're wondering what I am referring to, check out #78 above).
The iPhone failing in Europe so spectacularly has put a big on my face - love it!
You are playing pretty fast and loose with the facts to prove this point. You highlight certain facts and completely ignore others that don’t support your assertion.
1) AT&T's activation numbers stalled in the christmas quarter
AT&T never officially released its Christmas iPhone sales. Its subscriber base increased by 2.7 million for a record breaking single quarter increase.
2) American sales numbers are not really American when 1/2 of them are shipped overseas.
The number of unlocked iPhones are only an estimate. And that estimate was only for a quarter not half.
3) Verizon Wireless did absolulely nothing to counter the iphone and still gets better postpaid net adds than AT&T since the iphone was launched.
AT&T has nearly 10 million more subscribers than Verizon.
Verizon beating the crap out of AT&T means everything --- and I didn't mean selling phones --- I meant the number of subscribers signing 2 years contracts with Verizon. It showed the rest of the world that you can survive without the iphone exclusive.
This is just completely wrong.
These people are so satisfied with the iphone that 1/3 of the users have to carry a second phone.
This is nothing new. People have been carrying two phones long before the iPhone existed. Most of the time its because one is a business phone and the other is a personal phone. These people have little choice in their business phone. But they can choose their personal phone.
The other way to look at this is that there is such demand for the iPhone people are willing to carry two smartphones.
Verizon sold 1.1 million Voyagers in 4.5 months --- no bad for something that is not as polished as the iphone.
Verizon gives the Voyager away with a cheaper contract. Of course its going to sell more units. That’s simple economics.
But just for fun. European sales of N95 - 7m in under 12 months, iPhone 330,000. Thats only 21:1 I was wrong then.
You cannot compare the N95 and the iPhone in this way. The business models and sales prices are completely different.
The N95 is sold on nearly every carrier in every industrialized nation. Its given away free with a cheaper contract. The N95 should sell more than the iPhone. This proves nothing.
I think a big factor behind the iPhone's flop in Europe is that people actually read newspapers there and they heard what Jobs was doing to the carriers with the whole revenue sharing hoo haa. The chutzpah of that guy is unbelievable. I would never buy an iPhone, mainly for that very reason - Apple has to learn some respect. I couldn't give a rats arse how good the product is. (by the way, I dont think they are a patch on Nokias)
So much for a game changing phone. Yes, Nokia is producing a touch screen phone, thats about the only big thing to have come out of this. Is Symbian still powering Nokia Phones. Yes it is. Have phone manufacturers rushed headlong into producing touch screen phones? Not really. Nothing much has changed with the major manufacturers. The iPhone just doesn't sell that well, for business use it is a fundamentally flawed device. Major companies still use the Blackberry for everything.
This is chock full of inaccuracies.
The iPhone is not a flop in Europe. The iPhone has generated over a billion euros in sales in a few months time. In case you didn't know its difficult to make a billion euros from a product.
Apple's revenue sharing isn't entirely different from how most phones are sold. Apple takes payments over time instead of one payment as most phone manufacturers do.
You really have not been paying attention. Every mobile phone manufacturer is making touch screen phones. There are more now than their have ever been. The internal storage of phones is also increasing.
You cannot compare the N95 and the iPhone........
All you've got to do is take a look at:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/07/h...ge-nokias-n95/
and your statement is more true than you could possibly imagine.
The N95 sounds like a complete disaster!
This is chock full of inaccuracies.
The iPhone is not a flop in Europe. The iPhone has generated over a billion euros in sales in a few months time. In case you didn't know its difficult to make a billion euros from a product.
Apple's revenue sharing isn't entirely different from how most phones are sold. Apple takes payments over time instead of one payment as most phone manufacturers do.
You really have not been paying attention. Every mobile phone manufacturer is making touch screen phones. There are more now than their have ever been. The internal storage of phones is also increasing.
France sells what was it... 850 a day. Now if that was say the Shetland Islands or Fiji, I would say its selling fairly well. But this is a country of 60000000 people. 850 60000000 850 60000000. Now I'm no market analyst, but I can spot a disaster when I see one. And thats a disaster. This is a consumer product, not an A380.
And for your information Apples revenue sharing IS entirely different from the way every other mobile is sold. Apple tales a share of the what the company takes in. If you dont believe its different, explain why no Chinese operator will deal with Apple. "We dont share revenue. Period" Wang Jianzhou, China Mobile's chairman said. Now if that doesn't imply to you that the model is different, what does?
Oh and more memory being added to phones is an Apple thing? wa?
Oh boy. Another one with time one his hands that supposedly has no interest in the iPhone! These guys keep proving my point... (and, Jules, in case you're wondering what I am referring to, check out #78 above).
Well what do you want then - A great big Apple love party?
Nah! didn't think so, that seems to be the trouble with many of the regulars on here, they will swear blind that Steve Jobs can walk on water and when his feet get a little wet they close their eyes, cover their ears and go "nah nah nah nah nah nah, we never saw that!".
The iPhone v1 was never going to set the world alight in Europe, lack of 3G and MMS was huge but the cost and the deals with carriers was always going to put it on a back foot against the likes of Nokia.
I worked in the UK mobile industry for years and wrote many many posts on this subject, posts that were based on years of experience of this market. But of course some spotty American kid with a 3 year old imac knows better! That has always been the problem with this site.
Nice to be right though! ;-)
France sells what was it... 850 a day. Now if that was say the Shetland Islands or Fiji, I would say its selling fairly well. But this is a country of 60000000 people. 850 60000000 850 60000000. Now I'm no market analyst, but I can spot a disaster when I see one. And thats a disaster. This is a consumer product, not an A380.
What exactly are you basing this on?
What other phone in France is offered on one carrier, at a premium price, on a premium contract, and far outsells the iPhone? At the current costs Apple may have not expected to sell much more than 850 a day.
The problem with this is that it uses one narrow measurement to determine success or failure. In real life business does not work that way. Dell sells 10 times more computers than Apple. While Apple is far more profitable and is growing faster. Just because you sell more does not mean your business is profitable or viable.
The iPhone could be selling 2 million units a quarter while Nokia is selling 50 million smartphones a quarter. The iPhone could be making as much profit for Apple as Nokia's entire smartphone lines combined. Apple is at the beginning of building the iPhone platform and has plenty of time.
And for your information Apples revenue sharing IS entirely different from the way every other mobile is sold. Apple tales a share of the what the company takes in. If you dont believe its different, explain why no Chinese operator will deal with Apple. "We dont share revenue. Period" Wang Jianzhou, China Mobile's chairman said. Now if that doesn't explain to you that the model is different, what does?
Every mobile carrier that subsidizes phones for contract buys the phone from the manufacturer. The money they pay to the manufacturer is an expense that comes out of their profits. Instead of taking one payment Apple is taking payments over 24 months. Its basically the same either way.
Yes we are hearing that China Mobile is hesitant to deal with the iPhone because of the revenue sharing. At the same time both parties acknowledge that negotiations have not even begun. Apple could certainly propose do it the other way and have China Mobile pay the equivalent of 24 months of revenue in one payment up front.
The iPhone v1 was never going to set the world alight in Europe, lack of 3G and MMS was huge but the cost and the deals with carriers was always going to put it on a back foot against the likes of Nokia.
I think its early to say for sure. Sony/Ericson has had a slide in sales.
Much of these sales numbers are played for sensationalism. But divorce the actual profitability of each business model. Apple has certainly made a lot of money from European iPhone sales. O2 has been happy and reported healthy profits from its iPhone sales. Ultimately that is what matters most.
The iPhone is not a failure by any stretch of the imagination.
People really don't have to line up overnight, but they will sell like hotcakes.
I know someone who is buying 4 for their family when they come out.
Look at the big picture, they are slyly trying to clear the channels.
Sure someone can say "this amount of people bought it at this price and we made a profit so it must not be too expensive" but I'm just not convinced the price is hitting the right spot on the supply/demand graph.
I hope Apple take the message on board and aren't banking solely on 3G making all the issues go away. I'm confident they'll work something out.
Hate to break it to you.. but Apple has something on the horizon also.. and i bet it'll be to the market before your Nokia surprise.
You have proven consistently that you can't break anything to anyone unless you consider how exponentially stupid you seem to get with post after post. Your record for ignorance in jeopardy by you and you alone. It is not my Nokia surprise but that of Nokia's. Wait, you just broke your own record again.
Who are these mystery people that carry around another cell phone alongside their IPHONE? And for what logical reason? The N82 you refer to looks nice.. but it looks like my canon digital camera interface... which isn't the most intuitive by any means. It retails for $629 and isn't supported or offered for sale on any US networks. The only features it offers that best the IPHONE are a better camera definitely and the GPS. But apple has visual voicemail, multi-touch, bigger screen, and is slimmer... I'll trade camera and gps for better interface and better design any day. Just personal taste...
The N82 released a black version that was only avail in the US. Once again you have a problem knowing what is released and what isn't. Make the Internet your best friend and stop guessing. Also get a spec sheet and compare the N82 features to the iPhone and see what's missing. One word: DOH!!!!!
I work in the entertainment industry... so the IPHONE is FAR ahead of any phone in meeting my daily needs. I need to send quicktimes to clients from my mac on a daily basis. Most of the executive producers are out and about and check the quicktimes on the go. Not to mention the multimedia features are excellent for displaying my reel ect.
I guess circus clown is still entertainment. Try sending a file from your iPhone. Ohhhh, that's right, you can't. How about making a VoIP call. Ooooppssss.... You can't.
I want a phone that syncs and works well with my mac at home and at work... I'd imagine posters on Apple Insider would want the same... but i guess you guys all use PC's... in that case keep your windows mobile phones, makes sense why you prefer them.
Well, you broke your record again. You made an assumption. I own nothing but Macs, however I have had the pleasure of having truly high end, unlocked phones where I can install what I want to suit my needs. If you had read on instead of jumping in hip deep in crap, you would have seen that I mentioned having an iPhone. It must really suck being you?
Heh heh, fascinating to read all the back-and-forth. I can understand the people who like the iPhone singing its praises and defending it. What I can't understand is why those who can't stand this thing (and presumably, therefore don't own it) waste their time venting their spleen. Don't you guys have something else to do - like, don't you have a job or life or something? (Esp. that guy who was dispensing advice to someone to get out of his mother's basement, etc).
I wrote the basement comment and it still stands. I like the iPhone for what it does. Play media well. As a phone, it is pretty terrible unless you want to simply call, or send one SMS at a time to individuals. It is woefully underwhelming as a phone. Apple could have done better. They should have hired some Nokia or SE guys to give them a hand in developing a phone rather than developing an iPod then sticking in a phone.
Please know that this is truly an honest question: Why are you wasting so much of your time over something you do not own and hence really shouldn't matter a great deal from the standpoint of your existence?
I hate the word "fanboy" but it applies to you. Anyone that does not sing the praises of Apple and "he who must not be named" a.k.a Steve Jobs (oppsss. named him), is immediately a hater or basher or Windows lover. You and those of your ilk tend to live in a Apple shaped, myopic world where all is wonderful. The real world is not like this. If I pay money for a product, I feel I have the right to criticize it.
Some of you sound bitter,* like you've either been laid off by phone companies or got dissed by Apple's SDK folks or..... whatever......
I work for the State Department, so you don't have to worry about my job.
*Don't intend to sound Obama-esque.
You sound under informed.
What exactly are you basing this on?
What other phone in France is offered on one carrier, at a premium price, on a premium contract, and far outsells the iPhone? At the current costs Apple may have not expected to sell much more than 850 a day.
Yeah and Apple's going to be making a pile of cash on that one. Apple are in the business of seeling phones and making money. 1) They are selling bugger all phones and 2) They wont be making any money out of it.
The problem with this is that it uses one narrow measurement to determine success or failure. In real life business does not work that way. Dell sells 10 times more computers than Apple. While Apple is far more profitable and is growing faster. Just because you sell more does not mean your business is profitable or viable.
The iPhone could be selling 2 million units a quarter while Nokia is selling 50 million smartphones a quarter. The iPhone could be making as much profit for Apple as Nokia's entire smartphone lines combined. Apple is at the beginning of building the iPhone platform and has plenty of time.
I'll bet you an A380 that they change their business model sometime very soon. So much for niche products that make them loads of cash - they are dumping stock in Germany. 99 Euros gets you an iPhone these days.
Every mobile carrier that subsidizes phones for contract buys the phone from the manufacturer. The money they pay to the manufacturer is an expense that comes out of their profits. Instead of taking one payment Apple is taking payments over 24 months. Its basically the same either way.
Yes we are hearing that China Mobile is hesitant to deal with the iPhone because of the revenue sharing. At the same time both parties acknowledge that negotiations have not even begun. Apple could certainly propose do it the other way and have China Mobile pay the equivalent of 24 months of revenue in one payment up front.
I wont bother with this one sorry. Try doing a bit more reading. Preferrably wiith both eyes open. But at least one.
Yeah and Apple's going to be making a pile of cash on that one. Apple are in the business of seeling phones and making money. 1) They are selling bugger all phones and 2) There wont be making any money out of it.
The problem with this is that it uses one narrow measurement to determine success or failure. In real life business does not work that way. Dell sells 10 times more computers than Apple. While Apple is far more profitable and is growing faster. Just because you sell more does not mean your business is profitable or viable.
The iPhone could be selling 2 million units a quarter while Nokia is selling 50 million smartphones a quarter. The iPhone could be making as much profit for Apple as Nokia's entire smartphone lines combined. Apple is at the beginning of building the iPhone platform and has plenty of time.
I'll bet you an A380 that they change their business model sometime very soon. So much for niche products that make them loads of cash - they are dumping stock in Germany. 99 Euros gets you an iPhone these days.
I wont bother with this one sorry. Try doing a bit more reading. Preferrably wiith both eyes open. But at least one.[/QUOTE]
Nice one Jules. As an American currently living in Europe, then on to somewhere else, I can say that many to most Americans need to get a passport and get out of the country and realize that abroad is not actually Canada or Mexico. This debate on the iPhone is proof positive of this. Apple thought they could bring that old and out dated model to Europe and people would fall for it. It was tried with branding and that died. People buy the phones and unbrand them as fast as they can get their phone recognized by their PC or Mac. Finland told Apple to go shove the iPhone. The operators here laughed at the 3 year old technology that was being pawned off as innovating and revolutionary. Touch screens how been around for quite a while, so to the European masses, the iPhone was nothing new. Now, the iPod Touch was something different. I would like to see the sales numbers for these.
I'll bet you an A380 that they change their business model sometime very soon. So much for niche products that make them loads of cash - they are dumping stock in Germany. 99 Euros gets you an iPhone these days.
I wont bother with this one sorry. Try doing a bit more reading. Preferrably wiith both eyes open. But at least one.
Nice one Jules. As an American currently living in Europe, then on to somewhere else, I can say that many to most Americans need to get a passport and get out of the country and realize that abroad is not actually Canada or Mexico. This debate on the iPhone is proof positive of this. Apple thought they could bring that old and out dated model to Europe and people would fall for it. It was tried with branding and that died. People buy the phones and unbrand them as fast as they can get their phone recognized by their PC or Mac. Finland told Apple to go shove the iPhone. The operators here laughed at the 3 year old technology that was being pawned off as innovating and revolutionary. Touch screens how been around for quite a while, so to the European masses, the iPhone was nothing new. Now, the iPod Touch was something different. I would like to see the sales numbers for these.
You have a point there. Before anyone says I am an Apple basher I own two Macs and an iPod Touch. I love that gadget. The sound only comes out of one channel most of the time and Apple refuses to honor any warranty here in the Ukraine, which pisses me off, but the iPod Touch is very much in a class of its own. Sure, it's similar to the iPhone but its where Apple bascially got everything completely right the first time round. And there's no revenue sharing model to deal with
And I'm a Kiwi living in the Ukraine... beat that...
You have a point there. Before anyone says I am an Apple basher I own two Macs and an iPod Touch. I love that gadget. The sound only comes out of one channel most of the time and Apple refuses to honor any warranty here in the Ukraine, which pisses me off, but the iPod Touch is very much in a class of its own. Sure, it's similar to the iPhone but its where Apple bascially got everything completely right the first time round. And there's no revenue sharing model to deal with
And I'm a Kiwi living in the Ukraine... beat that...
You might have me beat. I am an american living in Finland at the moment.
Oh boy. Another one with time one his hands that supposedly has no interest in the iPhone! These guys keep proving my point... (and, Jules, in case you're wondering what I am referring to, check out #78 above).
Dude - you have no point other than expressing your own self-righteousness in owning an iPhone. You've contributed absolutely ziltch to this thread and are one of the ones on here previously that kept driving your ridiculous point that the French and Europeans plan their vacations to America in order to buy iPhones. This whole thread is about how the French and Europeans have no interest in the iPhone. So sorry you can't accept the story of the thread.