If EDGE is outpacing 3G for you, something's not as it should be.
I have measured the speed of AT&T EDGE in one area to be faster than AT&T HSDPA offered in another area. That is based on map coverage of AT&T's 3G coverage. There could have been technical issues preventing it from being faster.
Right now, when I plug in the AT&T Sierra Wireless 3G USB card I get a rough average of about 1500Kb/s and saw it as high as 1900Mb/s after doing several tests from several sources. I hope this coverage is the norm, not the exception.
Dominance is a-ways ways off. Nokia shipped more than 8 times more smartphones in Q4 '07 than Apple did, RIM, about double.
Nokia has had years to build market momentum and a worldwide sales channel, while Apple has had about 10 months. But I'm certain Apple will indeed dominate the segment within a few years; it has too many weapons that Nokia nor RIM can effectively counter--ie, a world-class software development culture, a world-class media store (how easy is it to rent a movie and watch it on your Nokia or Blackberry??), the potential for deep integration with desktop computers and home networks. etc.
The iPhone has indeed paved the way to world domination, and it sure didn't need 3G to get the ball rolling.
But I'm certain Apple will indeed dominate the segment within a few years
I think so too. The iPhone has pulled a good deal of its customers from the cheap to free, low function phone to the high-end smartphone sector. That is pretty impressive and I think that will be the achilles heal of Nokia's dominance in smartphone sales; pulling replacing a basic cellphone and iPod for an iPhone.
Nokia has had years to build market momentum and a worldwide sales channel, while Apple has had about 10 months. But I'm certain Apple will indeed dominate the segment within a few years; it has too many weapons that Nokia nor RIM can effectively counter--ie, a world-class software development culture, a world-class media store (how easy is it to rent a movie and watch it on your Nokia or Blackberry??), the potential for deep integration with desktop computers and home networks. etc.
The iPhone has indeed paved the way to world domination, and it sure didn't need 3G to get the ball rolling.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......
Please wake me when something interesting is said. Do you really, really think that Nokia is incapable of duplicating what Apple has done?
Let's recap:
1. The iPhone is a 3 year old phone (technologically), with a very nice UI. Drop the UI, you have a Motorola, i.e. POS.
2. The iPhone is more iPod than phone. Try making a VoIP call or exchange vCards, or any biz function.
3. iTunes is what is the driver here. A comparable store offered and supported by Nokia would be hard to dismiss and Nokia already has about a gazillion more customers and deeper pockets than Apple, and well, Nokia is a company of mobile telephony experts. There is nothing from a technological standpoint that Apple can do that Nokia can't.
4. Nokia is pretty good at adapting and selling products that people want, hence their market domination.
These are just a few points. I have been traveling all day and could not be bothered to list more. I am quite sure you get meaning.
I think so too. The iPhone has pulled a good deal of its customers from the cheap to free, low function phone to the high-end smartphone sector. That is pretty impressive and I think that will be the achilles heal of Nokia's dominance in smartphone sales; pulling replacing a basic cellphone and iPod for an iPhone.
This is where you and the other gentleman are mistaken (my opinion). It is my assumption that you and he have never used or even held a high end Nokia phone. Right now, the N82 simply blows the iPhone away in terms of technology. This is why the iPhone sales in Europe are flat. Europeans think the iPhone is nice but for the money, they get more bang for the buck (or Euro). Many see the iPhone as a nice iPod that has some basic telephony functions.
Tried to edit my prior post but for some reason it would not let me so sorry for creating an additional post.
Go to: http://europe.nokia.com/products and have a quick look at any E or N series phone and compare them to the iPhone in terms of specifications and functionality.
While in Germany for the past week, I was using my iPhone and my N82. Many to most thought the iPhone was nice but most felt the N82 offered more value for the money. The ability to add software at will, or to swap a battery, 3G (oh no, not that), a real GPS, expandable memory, etc... While they all loved the TS UI of the iPhone, they were content with the navigation of the N82.
Please wake me when something interesting is said. Do you really, really think that Nokia is incapable of duplicating what Apple has done?
[...]
These are just a few points. I have been traveling all day and could not be bothered to list more. I am quite sure you get meaning.
There are capacitance multi-touch phones on the market with more on the horizon, but Apple is in a unique position of having a UI and underlying OS that dominates the mobile market. While the iPhone is oddly missing some basic functionality in the HW and SW, the OS is such a powerful factor that no one has come close to duplicating, only mimicking the UI on a few screens.
There are capacitance multi-touch phones on the market with more on the horizon, but Apple is in a unique position of having a UI and underlying OS that dominates the mobile market. While the iPhone is oddly missing some basic functionality in the HW and SW, the OS is such a powerful factor that no one has come close to duplicating, only mimicking the UI on a few screens.
Don't get me wrong here. I like my iPhone and chances are I will get a 3G version as well. As you pointed out the underlying OS is the real deal maker here. It is fast, stable, and if Apple really wants to be open as they say, provides a great platform to build upon. After being in the telecom game on both sides, software development sector and operator side, I have seen all the hottest, latest and greatest. The so-called "Brand-X" killers come and go, and they never pan out or deliver the knock out blow. Nokia will lose some market share initially to Apple but Nokia is smart and innovative. I have seen their new phone (NDA so no details) but it will be nice and compete with the iPhone. Many of the same iPhone users in Europe carry two phones. This alone should speak volumes that the iPhone is lacking. Apple had better bring its A game.
Nokia will lose some market share initially to Apple but Nokia is smart and innovative.
I think the iPhone is pulling in mainly new blood into the smartphone market, so I suspect that Nokia's year-over-year unit sale percentage will grow at about the same rate, if not more, than it is now.
It's the by percentage comparison of smartphone unit sales among the industry that Nokia will lose share that will not be recovered. But that is to be expected. It's like Apple's increasing Mac marketshare, though PC unit sales are still gaining momentum yer-over-year.
I think I'm coming down with something as I don't feel I am communicating well today. Can you get SARS from Americanized Chinese food?
Nokia has had years to build market momentum and a worldwide sales channel, while Apple has had about 10 months. But I'm certain Apple will indeed dominate the segment within a few years; it has too many weapons that Nokia nor RIM can effectively counter--ie, a world-class software development culture, a world-class media store (how easy is it to rent a movie and watch it on your Nokia or Blackberry??), the potential for deep integration with desktop computers and home networks. etc.
I dunno... both sides have their advantages. Apple's software is great, but Nokia has 40 percent of the worldwide cellphone market, which is close to half a BILLION cellphones sold every year.
I think at some point Nokia and Apple will be like Coke and Pepsi in the cellphone market, but I'd never predict that one will 'dominate' the other. And I'm a pretty huge Apple fan.
Quote:
The iPhone has indeed paved the way to world domination, and it sure didn't need 3G to get the ball rolling.
No, but it'll need 3G to roll the ball over the next major hills, which would be the Asian launch, and finally doing well in Europe.
sapporobaby, you're judging the iPhone on version 1, a product that has been out a whole ten months. Nokia has been in the mobile phone business for how long?
No offense, but you really come off like a very clever Nokia troll. I'm thinking you work for Nokia but still talk about an iPhone in your posts so you don't seem biased. But you still come off that way.
Of course, this debate will be rendered moot very soon. When iPhone version 2 is released it is going to dominate everyone, including Nokia. Maybe Nokia can make a half-way decent iPhone knock-off so they don't lose TOO much business. You know, so you still have a job and all.
No offense, but you really come off like a very clever Nokia troll. I'm thinking you work for Nokia but still talk about an iPhone in your posts so you don't seem biased. But you still come off that way :
I don't agree with his conservative assessment of the worldwide adoption of a 3G iPhone with v2.0 firmware, but there is nothing trollish about his posts. He is clearly not trying to incite an aggravated response in anyone.
I don't doubt that the iPhone will have a much, much faster year-over-year growth than either RiM, Nokia or WinMobile devices, but that isn't saying much considering what we know will be coming to the iPhone with 3G, 3rd-party apps and Exchange support. Apple will break records in growth in this area, but Nokia's smartphones will still outsell the iPhone in unit sales for some time.
I'm not even convinced that Apple will outsell RiM's smartphones for at first two quarters. One thing that is certain is that even if Apple becomes the number one selling smartphone Nokia will still be there making money hand-over-fist.
sapporobaby, you're judging the iPhone on version 1, a product that has been out a whole ten months. Nokia has been in the mobile phone business for how long?
No offense, but you really come off like a very clever Nokia troll. I'm thinking you work for Nokia but still talk about an iPhone in your posts so you don't seem biased. But you still come off that way.
Of course, this debate will be rendered moot very soon. When iPhone version 2 is released it is going to dominate everyone, including Nokia. Maybe Nokia can make a half-way decent iPhone knock-off so they don't lose TOO much business. You know, so you still have a job and all.
I am here to educate you.
Class in session. As I have stated several times throughout this thread and forum, I work for the US State Department but am currently living in Europe on assignment. Get a passport and travel before making a blanket assessment about someone. Anyway, I have had the advantage of working in the telecoms industry on the operator and software developer side (this was mentioned in this very thread). I will include pictures next time. I have also had the pleasure of using almost every smartphone/mobile phone device type since the middle 90's when Nokia came out with the original Communicator, Ericsson with the R380, various Psion devices, and so on. I would say this makes me more than "clever" but knowledgeable and able to speak with some confidence about a subject I am quite familiar with. What's your excuse?
It seems that anytime, anyone does not tow the "Apple, Apple uber alles", party line this person is either biased, Apple haters, stupid in some cases, etc.....
Sorry, but that is clearly not true. 3G is faster that wifi in many many instances.
With wifi you are only sharing whatever bandwidth is available from the access point. If you have 10 people sharing 1MB of bandwidth then your wifi connection could theoretically be only 100k or less. You go to a busy Starbucks and how many people might there be online? And how much bandwidth does Starbucks have going back to the carrier? I presume they do not give all of their bandwidth to customers and would keep a proportion of it for their own internal use too?
The internet is almost always shared bandwidth. It's shared with DSL at the CO & its uplink, it's shared on cable because of the cable, it's shared on cellular because you're sharing the antenna as well as its upstream link. You don't get dedicated bandwidth unless you really pay dearly for it.
I don't know what bandwidth Starbuck's would use, but I don't think it's a whole lot.
It seems that anytime, anyone does not tow the "Apple, Apple uber alles", party line this person is either biased, Apple haters, stupid in some cases, etc.....
You forgot "troll". That one often gets tossed in one's face by someone if you don't automatically agree that Apple is always right and is on the glide path to total, undisputed rule over whatever product segment they're currently entering. It's the AI forums way.
I'm a pretty huge Apple fan, having owned Macs all the way back to the SE/30, I'm currently typing this message on my gfriend's MacBook (my ancient iBook is a bit slow, but I still use it) while waiting to go the gym where I'll be using my iPod during my workout. But, if I disagree with Apple on anything, somehow I'm suspect, at least in certain ppl's minds.
The internet is almost always shared bandwidth. It's shared with DSL at the CO & its uplink, it's shared on cable because of the cable, it's shared on cellular because you're sharing the antenna as well as its upstream link. You don't get dedicated bandwidth unless you really pay dearly for it.
I don't know what bandwidth Starbuck's would use, but I don't think it's a whole lot.
Pretty much spot on. Mobile data uses timeslots and such but for the most part it is all shared. I get a dedicated speed based on the amount that I am willing to pay, but this is solely based on the network coverage. Even with HSDPA, wifi smokes most mobile data connections. Even in downtown Helsinki with is blanketed it with wifi, and connected users, wifi is still faster in most cases.
You forgot "troll". That one often gets tossed in one's face by someone if you don't automatically agree that Apple is always right and is on the glide path to total, undisputed rule over whatever product segment they're currently entering. It's the AI forums way.
I'm a pretty huge Apple fan, having owned Macs all the way back to the SE/30, I'm currently typing this message on my gfriend's MacBook (my ancient iBook is a bit slow, but I still use it) while waiting to go the gym where I'll be using my iPod during my workout. But, if I disagree with Apple on anything, somehow I'm suspect, at least in certain ppl's minds.
It's kinda funny, when you think about it.
.
Yes, I did forget troll. Thanks for the update TBaggins. I will add this to the list.
Funny thing, as I head into my livingroom to watch some shows on my ATV, that I downloaded from iTunes, that reside on my MBP 17 inch, which happen to be on my iPod Touch and iPhone, which have access to songs on my other Macbook G4, I wonder if I am doing the right thing by trying to think different. Maybe I should become one of the "sheeple" and let "He who must not be named" do all of my thinking for me. It seems that more than most here are happy to not have a single isolated thought outside of the Third Apple Reich.
Comments
If EDGE is outpacing 3G for you, something's not as it should be.
I have measured the speed of AT&T EDGE in one area to be faster than AT&T HSDPA offered in another area. That is based on map coverage of AT&T's 3G coverage. There could have been technical issues preventing it from being faster.
Right now, when I plug in the AT&T Sierra Wireless 3G USB card I get a rough average of about 1500Kb/s and saw it as high as 1900Mb/s after doing several tests from several sources. I hope this coverage is the norm, not the exception.
Are you back in Finland? if not, how fast is your 3G right now?
On my iPhone I got SPEED: 112kbps
All time: average 130 kbit
24 hr: average 112
Dominance is a-ways ways off. Nokia shipped more than 8 times more smartphones in Q4 '07 than Apple did, RIM, about double.
Nokia has had years to build market momentum and a worldwide sales channel, while Apple has had about 10 months. But I'm certain Apple will indeed dominate the segment within a few years; it has too many weapons that Nokia nor RIM can effectively counter--ie, a world-class software development culture, a world-class media store (how easy is it to rent a movie and watch it on your Nokia or Blackberry??), the potential for deep integration with desktop computers and home networks. etc.
The iPhone has indeed paved the way to world domination, and it sure didn't need 3G to get the ball rolling.
But I'm certain Apple will indeed dominate the segment within a few years
I think so too. The iPhone has pulled a good deal of its customers from the cheap to free, low function phone to the high-end smartphone sector. That is pretty impressive and I think that will be the achilles heal of Nokia's dominance in smartphone sales; pulling replacing a basic cellphone and iPod for an iPhone.
Nokia has had years to build market momentum and a worldwide sales channel, while Apple has had about 10 months. But I'm certain Apple will indeed dominate the segment within a few years; it has too many weapons that Nokia nor RIM can effectively counter--ie, a world-class software development culture, a world-class media store (how easy is it to rent a movie and watch it on your Nokia or Blackberry??), the potential for deep integration with desktop computers and home networks. etc.
The iPhone has indeed paved the way to world domination, and it sure didn't need 3G to get the ball rolling.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......
Please wake me when something interesting is said. Do you really, really think that Nokia is incapable of duplicating what Apple has done?
Let's recap:
1. The iPhone is a 3 year old phone (technologically), with a very nice UI. Drop the UI, you have a Motorola, i.e. POS.
2. The iPhone is more iPod than phone. Try making a VoIP call or exchange vCards, or any biz function.
3. iTunes is what is the driver here. A comparable store offered and supported by Nokia would be hard to dismiss and Nokia already has about a gazillion more customers and deeper pockets than Apple, and well, Nokia is a company of mobile telephony experts. There is nothing from a technological standpoint that Apple can do that Nokia can't.
4. Nokia is pretty good at adapting and selling products that people want, hence their market domination.
These are just a few points. I have been traveling all day and could not be bothered to list more. I am quite sure you get meaning.
I think so too. The iPhone has pulled a good deal of its customers from the cheap to free, low function phone to the high-end smartphone sector. That is pretty impressive and I think that will be the achilles heal of Nokia's dominance in smartphone sales; pulling replacing a basic cellphone and iPod for an iPhone.
This is where you and the other gentleman are mistaken (my opinion). It is my assumption that you and he have never used or even held a high end Nokia phone. Right now, the N82 simply blows the iPhone away in terms of technology. This is why the iPhone sales in Europe are flat. Europeans think the iPhone is nice but for the money, they get more bang for the buck (or Euro). Many see the iPhone as a nice iPod that has some basic telephony functions.
Go to: http://europe.nokia.com/products and have a quick look at any E or N series phone and compare them to the iPhone in terms of specifications and functionality.
While in Germany for the past week, I was using my iPhone and my N82. Many to most thought the iPhone was nice but most felt the N82 offered more value for the money. The ability to add software at will, or to swap a battery, 3G (oh no, not that), a real GPS, expandable memory, etc... While they all loved the TS UI of the iPhone, they were content with the navigation of the N82.
Please wake me when something interesting is said. Do you really, really think that Nokia is incapable of duplicating what Apple has done?
[...]
These are just a few points. I have been traveling all day and could not be bothered to list more. I am quite sure you get meaning.
There are capacitance multi-touch phones on the market with more on the horizon, but Apple is in a unique position of having a UI and underlying OS that dominates the mobile market. While the iPhone is oddly missing some basic functionality in the HW and SW, the OS is such a powerful factor that no one has come close to duplicating, only mimicking the UI on a few screens.
There are capacitance multi-touch phones on the market with more on the horizon, but Apple is in a unique position of having a UI and underlying OS that dominates the mobile market. While the iPhone is oddly missing some basic functionality in the HW and SW, the OS is such a powerful factor that no one has come close to duplicating, only mimicking the UI on a few screens.
Don't get me wrong here. I like my iPhone and chances are I will get a 3G version as well. As you pointed out the underlying OS is the real deal maker here. It is fast, stable, and if Apple really wants to be open as they say, provides a great platform to build upon. After being in the telecom game on both sides, software development sector and operator side, I have seen all the hottest, latest and greatest. The so-called "Brand-X" killers come and go, and they never pan out or deliver the knock out blow. Nokia will lose some market share initially to Apple but Nokia is smart and innovative. I have seen their new phone (NDA so no details) but it will be nice and compete with the iPhone. Many of the same iPhone users in Europe carry two phones. This alone should speak volumes that the iPhone is lacking. Apple had better bring its A game.
Nokia will lose some market share initially to Apple but Nokia is smart and innovative.
I think the iPhone is pulling in mainly new blood into the smartphone market, so I suspect that Nokia's year-over-year unit sale percentage will grow at about the same rate, if not more, than it is now.
It's the by percentage comparison of smartphone unit sales among the industry that Nokia will lose share that will not be recovered. But that is to be expected. It's like Apple's increasing Mac marketshare, though PC unit sales are still gaining momentum yer-over-year.
I think I'm coming down with something as I don't feel I am communicating well today. Can you get SARS from Americanized Chinese food?
Cna you get SARS from Americanized Chinese food?
Not sure but I know I need to get my butt in bed. The sun is coming up here in Helsinki and it is only 0437. Shit.
Get well, till laters.
Nokia has had years to build market momentum and a worldwide sales channel, while Apple has had about 10 months. But I'm certain Apple will indeed dominate the segment within a few years; it has too many weapons that Nokia nor RIM can effectively counter--ie, a world-class software development culture, a world-class media store (how easy is it to rent a movie and watch it on your Nokia or Blackberry??), the potential for deep integration with desktop computers and home networks. etc.
I dunno... both sides have their advantages. Apple's software is great, but Nokia has 40 percent of the worldwide cellphone market, which is close to half a BILLION cellphones sold every year.
I think at some point Nokia and Apple will be like Coke and Pepsi in the cellphone market, but I'd never predict that one will 'dominate' the other. And I'm a pretty huge Apple fan.
The iPhone has indeed paved the way to world domination, and it sure didn't need 3G to get the ball rolling.
No, but it'll need 3G to roll the ball over the next major hills, which would be the Asian launch, and finally doing well in Europe.
.
No offense, but you really come off like a very clever Nokia troll. I'm thinking you work for Nokia but still talk about an iPhone in your posts so you don't seem biased. But you still come off that way.
Of course, this debate will be rendered moot very soon. When iPhone version 2 is released it is going to dominate everyone, including Nokia. Maybe Nokia can make a half-way decent iPhone knock-off so they don't lose TOO much business. You know, so you still have a job and all.
No offense, but you really come off like a very clever Nokia troll. I'm thinking you work for Nokia but still talk about an iPhone in your posts so you don't seem biased. But you still come off that way
I don't agree with his conservative assessment of the worldwide adoption of a 3G iPhone with v2.0 firmware, but there is nothing trollish about his posts. He is clearly not trying to incite an aggravated response in anyone.
I don't doubt that the iPhone will have a much, much faster year-over-year growth than either RiM, Nokia or WinMobile devices, but that isn't saying much considering what we know will be coming to the iPhone with 3G, 3rd-party apps and Exchange support. Apple will break records in growth in this area, but Nokia's smartphones will still outsell the iPhone in unit sales for some time.
I'm not even convinced that Apple will outsell RiM's smartphones for at first two quarters. One thing that is certain is that even if Apple becomes the number one selling smartphone Nokia will still be there making money hand-over-fist.
sapporobaby, you're judging the iPhone on version 1, a product that has been out a whole ten months. Nokia has been in the mobile phone business for how long?
No offense, but you really come off like a very clever Nokia troll. I'm thinking you work for Nokia but still talk about an iPhone in your posts so you don't seem biased. But you still come off that way.
Of course, this debate will be rendered moot very soon. When iPhone version 2 is released it is going to dominate everyone, including Nokia. Maybe Nokia can make a half-way decent iPhone knock-off so they don't lose TOO much business. You know, so you still have a job and all.
I am here to educate you.
Class in session. As I have stated several times throughout this thread and forum, I work for the US State Department but am currently living in Europe on assignment. Get a passport and travel before making a blanket assessment about someone. Anyway, I have had the advantage of working in the telecoms industry on the operator and software developer side (this was mentioned in this very thread). I will include pictures next time. I have also had the pleasure of using almost every smartphone/mobile phone device type since the middle 90's when Nokia came out with the original Communicator, Ericsson with the R380, various Psion devices, and so on. I would say this makes me more than "clever" but knowledgeable and able to speak with some confidence about a subject I am quite familiar with. What's your excuse?
It seems that anytime, anyone does not tow the "Apple, Apple uber alles", party line this person is either biased, Apple haters, stupid in some cases, etc.....
@solipsism,
You are correct. Hope you are feeling better.
Yeah. Almost everywhere! . . . Almost.
3G Coverage Maps for Verizon, Cingular, and Sprint:
http://www.morethanpoints.com/articl...lar-and-sprint
That's a US map, not the UK
Sorry, but that is clearly not true. 3G is faster that wifi in many many instances.
With wifi you are only sharing whatever bandwidth is available from the access point. If you have 10 people sharing 1MB of bandwidth then your wifi connection could theoretically be only 100k or less. You go to a busy Starbucks and how many people might there be online? And how much bandwidth does Starbucks have going back to the carrier? I presume they do not give all of their bandwidth to customers and would keep a proportion of it for their own internal use too?
The internet is almost always shared bandwidth. It's shared with DSL at the CO & its uplink, it's shared on cable because of the cable, it's shared on cellular because you're sharing the antenna as well as its upstream link. You don't get dedicated bandwidth unless you really pay dearly for it.
I don't know what bandwidth Starbuck's would use, but I don't think it's a whole lot.
It seems that anytime, anyone does not tow the "Apple, Apple uber alles", party line this person is either biased, Apple haters, stupid in some cases, etc.....
You forgot "troll". That one often gets tossed in one's face by someone if you don't automatically agree that Apple is always right and is on the glide path to total, undisputed rule over whatever product segment they're currently entering. It's the AI forums way.
I'm a pretty huge Apple fan, having owned Macs all the way back to the SE/30, I'm currently typing this message on my gfriend's MacBook (my ancient iBook is a bit slow, but I still use it) while waiting to go the gym where I'll be using my iPod during my workout. But, if I disagree with Apple on anything, somehow I'm suspect, at least in certain ppl's minds.
It's kinda funny, when you think about it:
NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!
.
The internet is almost always shared bandwidth. It's shared with DSL at the CO & its uplink, it's shared on cable because of the cable, it's shared on cellular because you're sharing the antenna as well as its upstream link. You don't get dedicated bandwidth unless you really pay dearly for it.
I don't know what bandwidth Starbuck's would use, but I don't think it's a whole lot.
Pretty much spot on. Mobile data uses timeslots and such but for the most part it is all shared. I get a dedicated speed based on the amount that I am willing to pay, but this is solely based on the network coverage. Even with HSDPA, wifi smokes most mobile data connections. Even in downtown Helsinki with is blanketed it with wifi, and connected users, wifi is still faster in most cases.
You forgot "troll". That one often gets tossed in one's face by someone if you don't automatically agree that Apple is always right and is on the glide path to total, undisputed rule over whatever product segment they're currently entering. It's the AI forums way.
I'm a pretty huge Apple fan, having owned Macs all the way back to the SE/30, I'm currently typing this message on my gfriend's MacBook (my ancient iBook is a bit slow, but I still use it) while waiting to go the gym where I'll be using my iPod during my workout. But, if I disagree with Apple on anything, somehow I'm suspect, at least in certain ppl's minds.
It's kinda funny, when you think about it.
.
Yes, I did forget troll. Thanks for the update TBaggins. I will add this to the list.
Funny thing, as I head into my livingroom to watch some shows on my ATV, that I downloaded from iTunes, that reside on my MBP 17 inch, which happen to be on my iPod Touch and iPhone, which have access to songs on my other Macbook G4, I wonder if I am doing the right thing by trying to think different. Maybe I should become one of the "sheeple" and let "He who must not be named" do all of my thinking for me. It seems that more than most here are happy to not have a single isolated thought outside of the Third Apple Reich.
Oh well, back to the AI super hug-fest.