Symbian's smartphone's sales aren't rising with the market. That's clear. Even though you hate mrketshare numbers, that's too bad, because it does give up important information., and it's down to about 45% for smartphones.
Leaving market share aside for the moment.
Symbian's phone sales have risen 5% which I suspect isn't that far off track for the market rate in the markets they compete in. In general, the phone market is DOWN not up.
They don't really sell any phones in the USA but most of the smartphone market growth is in the USA with the iPhone at the expense of non-smartphones, not at the expense of Symbian. The USA has discovered smartphones a few years after they've plateaued elsewhere. That was my gripe with Daniel's analysis.
Symbian's problems are because they don't have any new product out. Nothing new this year at all. And then they've got a transition to Open Source to go through. It'll be tough for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
That. of course, affects the actual numbers as well. It also tells us that many others don't agree with your accessment of the phones. I'm pretty sure that in a year, their marketshare will be 40%, or less. They've only done well with smartphones because there wasn't another compelling product out there. Not too many people really like phones with a lot of hard to bother with features. The iPods have proved that.
Totally agree with you there about market share although I think it's largely Symbian's and Nokia/SE's fault that their product is so shoddy not that the Jesus phone is showing the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
While Ballmer jumps up and down fuming " developers, developers, developers...", it's really "GUI, GUI, GUI..."
And that's one major area in which Apple wins consistently.
I agree but for some of us, a good looking face is not the only think that attracts us to a product.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Those charts would show those Apple sections in almost all regions now. That would include all the regions in which Apple didn't compete in over the past year. That means a competitor that Nokia didn't have.
So the ones Daniel did put in were meaningless flim-flammery.
I'm really getting to the point that I'm getting really narked off with AppleInsider. If I wanted to read Roughly Drafted, I'd go there. Why repeat it here?
You can't simply believe that phones are sold in sequentially based in IMEI numbers without any significant gap, you can't be THAT stupid......
I don't know enough about IMEI numbers but it did occur to me that they were presuming both that the IMEI was sequentially allocated and only to Apple phones. Could there be a gap in the allocation or even a big block of IMEI numbers that went to say LG?
Work out your stats for the USA and the rest of the world, not combined. I suspect when you do, you'll find out that Symbian grew in line with the markets it competes in whereas Apple grew in line with the markets it competes in and the growth for Apple has come from growth in addition to the underlying trend. The USA and the rest of the World are two entirely separate markets when it comes to phone preferences.
But all this blinkered Apple loving, inch-deep analysis and slagging off the competition is making us appear like as RichL posted "vitriolic retards". Symbian is shipping 20 million phones a quarter - it's not going away fast. Some balance perhaps?
Work out your stats for the USA and the rest of the world, not combined. I suspect when you do, you'll find out that Symbian grew in line with the markets it competes in whereas Apple grew in line with the markets it competes in and the growth for Apple has come from growth in addition to the underlying trend. The USA and the rest of the World are two entirely separate markets when it comes to phone preferences.
But all this blinkered Apple loving, inch-deep analysis and slagging off the competition is making us appear like as RichL posted "vitriolic retards". Symbian is shipping 20 million phones a quarter - it's not going away fast. Some balance perhaps?
You don't really expect objectivity from him do you? I recall when he tried to pass off one of his "factual" articles to iLounge and Jeremy Horowitz ate his lunch. For the most part, anything written by Daniel is subject in my book and usually proves to be about 50-50 in factual content. While the other mods here have earned respect for the work they do, I find it hart to take anything Daniel says serious.
I don't know enough about IMEI numbers but it did occur to me that they were presuming both that the IMEI was sequentially allocated and only to Apple phones. Could there be a gap in the allocation or even a big block of IMEI numbers that went to say LG?
No, the numbers identified do go to Apple.
It can tell you what manufacturing run they are on. (how many total)
It doesn't tell you if there are large blocks that are sitting somewhere.
It also doesn't tell you how many are allocated to testing, marketing, or refurbishing to sit in stores when you walk in and trade your dead iPhone for a working model.
Presumably leading to launches in multiple countries, there were hundreds of thousands of phones sitting on pallets.
It's a fun exercise to track the numbers, it doesn't tell you what you often read printed.
I beg to differ here. Have you compared the specs of the N78 to the iPhone or even to the N95, or N82?
For the most part they share many, many features. The N78 is in no way moderately a medium level phone. It can compete with the iPhone on most levels and holds its own against its Nokia brand rivals.
Go to www.nokia.co.uk and select the Find Products link. Do a comparison. The phones that I listed here were all previous phones that I owned and I can say as a USER of these phones that the N78 is not slacking in anyway.
I have, and it sure does look like it to me. Holding it in the hand, as I've done, gives the feel of a throwback .
Agreed. I too am an Apple fan. I am trying to figure out how to justify a new iPod, while having an iPhone. There are some really good people on here that can see both sides of the coin. Pretty much any time I see a "Prince" article, I just move on and don't bother to read it. You can sum it up as: Apple good, everything else bad.
To make matters worse, Nokia will launch its new Tube soon. How will I afford that?
Symbian's phone sales have risen 5% which I suspect isn't that far off track for the market rate in the markets they compete in. In general, the phone market is DOWN not up.
I had the numbers in a link, but now I can't find it. Smartphone sales are up about 35%. But not for Nokia. I'm not interested in all the other low end phones, as those are not what we're talking about here, and their percentage of the market is already shrinking, as predicted.
Quote:
They don't really sell any phones in the USA but most of the smartphone market growth is in the USA with the iPhone at the expense of non-smartphones, not at the expense of Symbian. The USA has discovered smartphones a few years after they've plateaued elsewhere. That was my gripe with Daniel's analysis.
They tried to sell phones here, but they weren't successful.
Quote:
Symbian's problems are because they don't have any new product out. Nothing new this year at all. And then they've got a transition to Open Source to go through. It'll be tough for them.
It isn't just new product that matters though. It's relevent product. The market is changing from the do it all with many buttons and menus phones to more usable phones. Most phone manufacturers are trying to get on that bandwagon now that Apple has led the way.
They may not have new product, because they may have shelved some of what they were going to produce, and are scrambling to produce something closer to the iPhone, as other manufacturers are doing.
Nokia has bought the rest of Symbian to control its development all by itself. The open sourcing it is an attempt to make it matter, as it seems to be losing marketshare. Nokia is hoping more manufacturers will use it to compete with their new competitors, but I don't think they will succeed. Symbian has its own problems.
Quote:
Totally agree with you there about market share although I think it's largely Symbian's and Nokia/SE's fault that their product is so shoddy not that the Jesus phone is showing the way.
Of course it's their fault, though I thought you loved their phones. I know you loved the N95.
I just wish you would stop calling the iPhone the "Jesus" phone. It doesn't help the debate. I certainly don't think the iPhone is perfect, as you must know if you've read my posts on the subject.
But Apple does have the concept right. Miost people simply don't use most of the features in other top phones. Apple is appealing to those for whom those features are a waste, and would prefer features that are more meaningful to them.
Everybody can be served here. Apple isn't going to sell 100% of the smartphones in the market. They don't need to, to be very successful.
If Apple can somehow get 15 to 20% of the world market for smartphones, a possibility, then they can be seen as having succeeded in a market in which they were novices, and in which were told they had little chance.
That would be enough. When you consider that the market for smartphones will eventually take over from the general cell market, this means a lot. I remember when Samsung had but 3% of the cell market. If they could do it, so can someone else. I also remember when the cell market was owned by Motorola, and no one thought it would ever be lost by them. That also shows that Nokia had better be very careful. They have it all to lose, and it can surely happen.
Quote:
I agree but for some of us, a good looking face is not the only think that attracts us to a product.
You're minimizing what it represents, and you know that you are. A pretty face is just the opening gambit. It's what inside that matters too, and what makes the pretty face possible. So far, I've made it a point to try to play with as many new competitors to the iPhone as I can get my hands on as they come out (not too many yet). While others have a pretty face as well, theres nothing behind it. They still use phone OS's, which despite being prettified, are still fairly simple when compared to the iPhone OS. They have nowhere to go in the future. Most can barely handle the new interfaces they've been given. After that, they fade. They have to be totally re-written from the ground up.
We'll see how many other phones are capable of full OS upgrades as the iPhone is, and how many manufactures are willing to give up phone sales in order to offer it.
Quote:
So the ones Daniel did put in were meaningless flim-flammery.
No. They are correct as far as they go. They are just old. New figures would show the iPhone to have much wider sales and distribution.
If Apple is selling as many as it seems they are, they will take a respectable percentage of total sales this quarter. When they are on sale in all 70 countries by the end of the year, their sales will be much higher still. If they manage to sell as many as some are predicting, not an impossibility it seems, they will have had a meteoric rise. It's no wonder other companies are busily revising their lines.
Quote:
I'm really getting to the point that I'm getting really narked off with AppleInsider. If I wanted to read Roughly Drafted, I'd go there. Why repeat it here?
I really don't find the article that far off though. Some cheerleading, to be sure, but he could be right too. If you would rather have gloomy assessments of Apple's products, go read some Windows fanboi sites, or perhaps some Linux sites.
I've also had my argument with Daniel. While he's often right in general, he goes overboard, and foregts things, as well as minimizing others.
From reading each post I think there is some confusion in each argument. From what I understand Daniel is more specifically talking about Symbian's ability to compete in the smartphone market. I've seen various other places where developers have written about the differences between developing for Symbian and developing for the iPhone. Largely they mostly give praise to the iPhone development structure, and don't see as much of a future in the current Symbian development structure.
Everyone has been printing money in the cell phone industry? Really? Most manufacturers have pulled out or are facing very tough times. And most of the carriers have crippling amounts of debt. There's actually very few companies making healthy profits in the cell phone industry. Just ask Motorola or Sony Ericsson.
Could you be more specific as to who is doing so badly. Here in the US all the major carriers are profitable, save for Sprint. Which is largely because of their own mismanagement and poor customer service.
Mostly all of the mobile manufacturers are doing well, save for Motorola. Largely attributed to mismanagment and lack of innovation in a competitive market. Sony/Ericson has had a slowdown but are not in serious trouble.
Quote:
If you're selling 1 unit a year and you start selling 2 a year, your growth looks fantastic. It's very easy for a company selling relatively low volume to post very attractive growth figures whilst its much harder for the bigger boys.
What often gets lost in this type of argument is the growth between low cost phones and high end premium phones. The iPhone growth is not as steep as low cost phones. But it's growth equals much more profi as a high end product.
Quote:
Windows Mobile favourites HTC always posts wonderful growth figures and yet they're still no-where close to the top five manufacturers.
Has Windows Mobile been able to sustain similar growth as the iPhone has achieved?
Quote:
I assume you're basing your archaic "fact" on your own personal knowledge of the operating system?
I've seen other developers suggest that Symian will have to be completely rewritten. Which will take some time.
Partly due to the fact that Qualcomm sued them and they couldn't sell some of the phones there at one point.
That was later.
It reminds me of Fiat. They could never sell many cars here, and so they pulled out, twice. When it was said that they never sold many cars here, their supporters said that that was because they weren't officially selling cars here, and that in order to buy one, you had to go outside of regular channels. It would have to be pointed out to them that that was because Fiat COULDN'T sell enough cars here to be credible in the first place.
Not that Symbian pulled out officially, but after a while of doing poorly, they ceased making much effort.
It reminds me of Fiat. They could never sell many cars here, and so they pulled out, twice. When it was said that they never sold many cars here, their supporters said that that was because they weren't officially selling cars here, and that in order to buy one, you had to go outside of regular channels. It would have to be pointed out to them that that was because Fiat COULDN'T sell enough cars here to be credible in the first place.
Not that Symbian pulled out officially, but after a while of doing poorly, they ceased making much effort.
Everyone here will say that the iPhone hasn't done well due to it being Nokias home ground, basically the same thing happened in the US. They primarly purchased US, or North American products, Blackberry, Motorola, Qualcomm, Windows Mobile
Everyone here will say that the iPhone hasn't done well due to it being Nokias home ground, basically the same thing happened in the US. They primarly purchased US, or North American products, Blackberry, Motorola, Qualcomm, Windows Mobile
Samsung, and others have done very well here. Nokia's products fail to interest N American purchasers, who don't in general, like the pokey phones that Europeans buy, but whose features aren't even used much over there. Like Japanese phones made for that market. They have all of these features and services, but not that many actually use them.
Only in a war time or danger environment. The only thing dangerous up here are the drunks who offer you their hooch, Finnish women *(can be very dangerous if you know what I mean), reindeer meat, and Finnish coffee (they put this mocha crap in it).
I have, and it sure does look like it to me. Holding it in the hand, as I've done, gives the feel of a throwback .
Are you talking about build quality or features? Feature wise the N78 completely out specs the iPhone, as do the other phones mentioned there. In fact, so does just about every phone there from the E65 forward, and the N95 forward.
Everybody can be served here. Apple isn't going to sell 100% of the smartphones in the market. They don't need to, to be very successful.
This one statement alone is why I like to discuss with you. You do not drink too much of the kool aid and rarely do you go into cheer leading mode. However to some here, your state would be considered heresy as they truly believe Symbian will go away and Apple will dominate the entire Smartphone ( the iPhone is not a smartphone) market.
Comments
Symbian's smartphone's sales aren't rising with the market. That's clear. Even though you hate mrketshare numbers, that's too bad, because it does give up important information., and it's down to about 45% for smartphones.
Leaving market share aside for the moment.
Symbian's phone sales have risen 5% which I suspect isn't that far off track for the market rate in the markets they compete in. In general, the phone market is DOWN not up.
They don't really sell any phones in the USA but most of the smartphone market growth is in the USA with the iPhone at the expense of non-smartphones, not at the expense of Symbian. The USA has discovered smartphones a few years after they've plateaued elsewhere. That was my gripe with Daniel's analysis.
Symbian's problems are because they don't have any new product out. Nothing new this year at all. And then they've got a transition to Open Source to go through. It'll be tough for them.
That. of course, affects the actual numbers as well. It also tells us that many others don't agree with your accessment of the phones. I'm pretty sure that in a year, their marketshare will be 40%, or less. They've only done well with smartphones because there wasn't another compelling product out there. Not too many people really like phones with a lot of hard to bother with features. The iPods have proved that.
Totally agree with you there about market share although I think it's largely Symbian's and Nokia/SE's fault that their product is so shoddy not that the Jesus phone is showing the way.
While Ballmer jumps up and down fuming " developers, developers, developers...", it's really "GUI, GUI, GUI..."
And that's one major area in which Apple wins consistently.
I agree but for some of us, a good looking face is not the only think that attracts us to a product.
Those charts would show those Apple sections in almost all regions now. That would include all the regions in which Apple didn't compete in over the past year. That means a competitor that Nokia didn't have.
So the ones Daniel did put in were meaningless flim-flammery.
I'm really getting to the point that I'm getting really narked off with AppleInsider. If I wanted to read Roughly Drafted, I'd go there. Why repeat it here?
You can't simply believe that phones are sold in sequentially based in IMEI numbers without any significant gap, you can't be THAT stupid......
I don't know enough about IMEI numbers but it did occur to me that they were presuming both that the IMEI was sequentially allocated and only to Apple phones. Could there be a gap in the allocation or even a big block of IMEI numbers that went to say LG?
It's kind of simple really.
Work out your stats for the USA and the rest of the world, not combined. I suspect when you do, you'll find out that Symbian grew in line with the markets it competes in whereas Apple grew in line with the markets it competes in and the growth for Apple has come from growth in addition to the underlying trend. The USA and the rest of the World are two entirely separate markets when it comes to phone preferences.
But all this blinkered Apple loving, inch-deep analysis and slagging off the competition is making us appear like as RichL posted "vitriolic retards". Symbian is shipping 20 million phones a quarter - it's not going away fast. Some balance perhaps?
Daniel,
It's kind of simple really.
Work out your stats for the USA and the rest of the world, not combined. I suspect when you do, you'll find out that Symbian grew in line with the markets it competes in whereas Apple grew in line with the markets it competes in and the growth for Apple has come from growth in addition to the underlying trend. The USA and the rest of the World are two entirely separate markets when it comes to phone preferences.
But all this blinkered Apple loving, inch-deep analysis and slagging off the competition is making us appear like as RichL posted "vitriolic retards". Symbian is shipping 20 million phones a quarter - it's not going away fast. Some balance perhaps?
You don't really expect objectivity from him do you? I recall when he tried to pass off one of his "factual" articles to iLounge and Jeremy Horowitz ate his lunch. For the most part, anything written by Daniel is subject in my book and usually proves to be about 50-50 in factual content. While the other mods here have earned respect for the work they do, I find it hart to take anything Daniel says serious.
I don't know enough about IMEI numbers but it did occur to me that they were presuming both that the IMEI was sequentially allocated and only to Apple phones. Could there be a gap in the allocation or even a big block of IMEI numbers that went to say LG?
No, the numbers identified do go to Apple.
It can tell you what manufacturing run they are on. (how many total)
It doesn't tell you if there are large blocks that are sitting somewhere.
It also doesn't tell you how many are allocated to testing, marketing, or refurbishing to sit in stores when you walk in and trade your dead iPhone for a working model.
Presumably leading to launches in multiple countries, there were hundreds of thousands of phones sitting on pallets.
It's a fun exercise to track the numbers, it doesn't tell you what you often read printed.
I beg to differ here. Have you compared the specs of the N78 to the iPhone or even to the N95, or N82?
For the most part they share many, many features. The N78 is in no way moderately a medium level phone. It can compete with the iPhone on most levels and holds its own against its Nokia brand rivals.
Go to www.nokia.co.uk and select the Find Products link. Do a comparison. The phones that I listed here were all previous phones that I owned and I can say as a USER of these phones that the N78 is not slacking in anyway.
I have, and it sure does look like it to me. Holding it in the hand, as I've done, gives the feel of a throwback .
Agreed. I too am an Apple fan. I am trying to figure out how to justify a new iPod, while having an iPhone.
To make matters worse, Nokia will launch its new Tube soon. How will I afford that?
Use your Danger pay.
Leaving market share aside for the moment.
Symbian's phone sales have risen 5% which I suspect isn't that far off track for the market rate in the markets they compete in. In general, the phone market is DOWN not up.
I had the numbers in a link, but now I can't find it. Smartphone sales are up about 35%. But not for Nokia. I'm not interested in all the other low end phones, as those are not what we're talking about here, and their percentage of the market is already shrinking, as predicted.
They don't really sell any phones in the USA but most of the smartphone market growth is in the USA with the iPhone at the expense of non-smartphones, not at the expense of Symbian. The USA has discovered smartphones a few years after they've plateaued elsewhere. That was my gripe with Daniel's analysis.
They tried to sell phones here, but they weren't successful.
Symbian's problems are because they don't have any new product out. Nothing new this year at all. And then they've got a transition to Open Source to go through. It'll be tough for them.
It isn't just new product that matters though. It's relevent product. The market is changing from the do it all with many buttons and menus phones to more usable phones. Most phone manufacturers are trying to get on that bandwagon now that Apple has led the way.
They may not have new product, because they may have shelved some of what they were going to produce, and are scrambling to produce something closer to the iPhone, as other manufacturers are doing.
Nokia has bought the rest of Symbian to control its development all by itself. The open sourcing it is an attempt to make it matter, as it seems to be losing marketshare. Nokia is hoping more manufacturers will use it to compete with their new competitors, but I don't think they will succeed. Symbian has its own problems.
Totally agree with you there about market share although I think it's largely Symbian's and Nokia/SE's fault that their product is so shoddy not that the Jesus phone is showing the way.
Of course it's their fault, though I thought you loved their phones. I know you loved the N95.
I just wish you would stop calling the iPhone the "Jesus" phone. It doesn't help the debate. I certainly don't think the iPhone is perfect, as you must know if you've read my posts on the subject.
But Apple does have the concept right. Miost people simply don't use most of the features in other top phones. Apple is appealing to those for whom those features are a waste, and would prefer features that are more meaningful to them.
Everybody can be served here. Apple isn't going to sell 100% of the smartphones in the market. They don't need to, to be very successful.
If Apple can somehow get 15 to 20% of the world market for smartphones, a possibility, then they can be seen as having succeeded in a market in which they were novices, and in which were told they had little chance.
That would be enough. When you consider that the market for smartphones will eventually take over from the general cell market, this means a lot. I remember when Samsung had but 3% of the cell market. If they could do it, so can someone else. I also remember when the cell market was owned by Motorola, and no one thought it would ever be lost by them. That also shows that Nokia had better be very careful. They have it all to lose, and it can surely happen.
I agree but for some of us, a good looking face is not the only think that attracts us to a product.
You're minimizing what it represents, and you know that you are. A pretty face is just the opening gambit. It's what inside that matters too, and what makes the pretty face possible. So far, I've made it a point to try to play with as many new competitors to the iPhone as I can get my hands on as they come out (not too many yet). While others have a pretty face as well, theres nothing behind it. They still use phone OS's, which despite being prettified, are still fairly simple when compared to the iPhone OS. They have nowhere to go in the future. Most can barely handle the new interfaces they've been given. After that, they fade. They have to be totally re-written from the ground up.
We'll see how many other phones are capable of full OS upgrades as the iPhone is, and how many manufactures are willing to give up phone sales in order to offer it.
So the ones Daniel did put in were meaningless flim-flammery.
No. They are correct as far as they go. They are just old. New figures would show the iPhone to have much wider sales and distribution.
If Apple is selling as many as it seems they are, they will take a respectable percentage of total sales this quarter. When they are on sale in all 70 countries by the end of the year, their sales will be much higher still. If they manage to sell as many as some are predicting, not an impossibility it seems, they will have had a meteoric rise. It's no wonder other companies are busily revising their lines.
I'm really getting to the point that I'm getting really narked off with AppleInsider. If I wanted to read Roughly Drafted, I'd go there. Why repeat it here?
I really don't find the article that far off though. Some cheerleading, to be sure, but he could be right too. If you would rather have gloomy assessments of Apple's products, go read some Windows fanboi sites, or perhaps some Linux sites.
I've also had my argument with Daniel. While he's often right in general, he goes overboard, and foregts things, as well as minimizing others.
But, that's his job.
They tried to sell phones here, but they weren't successful.
Partly due to the fact that Qualcomm sued them and they couldn't sell some of the phones there at one point.
Everyone has been printing money in the cell phone industry? Really? Most manufacturers have pulled out or are facing very tough times. And most of the carriers have crippling amounts of debt. There's actually very few companies making healthy profits in the cell phone industry. Just ask Motorola or Sony Ericsson.
Could you be more specific as to who is doing so badly. Here in the US all the major carriers are profitable, save for Sprint. Which is largely because of their own mismanagement and poor customer service.
Mostly all of the mobile manufacturers are doing well, save for Motorola. Largely attributed to mismanagment and lack of innovation in a competitive market. Sony/Ericson has had a slowdown but are not in serious trouble.
If you're selling 1 unit a year and you start selling 2 a year, your growth looks fantastic. It's very easy for a company selling relatively low volume to post very attractive growth figures whilst its much harder for the bigger boys.
What often gets lost in this type of argument is the growth between low cost phones and high end premium phones. The iPhone growth is not as steep as low cost phones. But it's growth equals much more profi as a high end product.
Windows Mobile favourites HTC always posts wonderful growth figures and yet they're still no-where close to the top five manufacturers.
Has Windows Mobile been able to sustain similar growth as the iPhone has achieved?
I assume you're basing your archaic "fact" on your own personal knowledge of the operating system?
I've seen other developers suggest that Symian will have to be completely rewritten. Which will take some time.
Partly due to the fact that Qualcomm sued them and they couldn't sell some of the phones there at one point.
That was later.
It reminds me of Fiat. They could never sell many cars here, and so they pulled out, twice. When it was said that they never sold many cars here, their supporters said that that was because they weren't officially selling cars here, and that in order to buy one, you had to go outside of regular channels. It would have to be pointed out to them that that was because Fiat COULDN'T sell enough cars here to be credible in the first place.
Not that Symbian pulled out officially, but after a while of doing poorly, they ceased making much effort.
That was later.
It reminds me of Fiat. They could never sell many cars here, and so they pulled out, twice. When it was said that they never sold many cars here, their supporters said that that was because they weren't officially selling cars here, and that in order to buy one, you had to go outside of regular channels. It would have to be pointed out to them that that was because Fiat COULDN'T sell enough cars here to be credible in the first place.
Not that Symbian pulled out officially, but after a while of doing poorly, they ceased making much effort.
Everyone here will say that the iPhone hasn't done well due to it being Nokias home ground, basically the same thing happened in the US. They primarly purchased US, or North American products, Blackberry, Motorola, Qualcomm, Windows Mobile
Sony/Ericson has had a slowdown but are not in serious trouble.
Sony/Ericsson is doing very poorly.
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and-...uts-2000-Jobs/
Everyone here will say that the iPhone hasn't done well due to it being Nokias home ground, basically the same thing happened in the US. They primarly purchased US, or North American products, Blackberry, Motorola, Qualcomm, Windows Mobile
Samsung, and others have done very well here. Nokia's products fail to interest N American purchasers, who don't in general, like the pokey phones that Europeans buy, but whose features aren't even used much over there. Like Japanese phones made for that market. They have all of these features and services, but not that many actually use them.
Sony/Ericsson is doing very poorly.
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and-...uts-2000-Jobs/
Oh, OK I hadn't seen that.
Use your Danger pay.
Only in a war time or danger environment. The only thing dangerous up here are the drunks who offer you their hooch, Finnish women *(can be very dangerous if you know what I mean), reindeer meat, and Finnish coffee (they put this mocha crap in it).
I have, and it sure does look like it to me. Holding it in the hand, as I've done, gives the feel of a throwback .
Are you talking about build quality or features? Feature wise the N78 completely out specs the iPhone, as do the other phones mentioned there. In fact, so does just about every phone there from the E65 forward, and the N95 forward.
Everybody can be served here. Apple isn't going to sell 100% of the smartphones in the market. They don't need to, to be very successful.
This one statement alone is why I like to discuss with you. You do not drink too much of the kool aid and rarely do you go into cheer leading mode. However to some here, your state would be considered heresy as they truly believe Symbian will go away and Apple will dominate the entire Smartphone ( the iPhone is not a smartphone) market.