Samsung, and others have done very well here. Nokia's products fail to interest N American purchasers, who don't in general, like the pokey phones that Europeans buy, but whose features aren't even used much over there. Like Japanese phones made for that market. They have all of these features and services, but not that many actually use them.
You have a pretty good point but I also attribute this to the fact that the US market is currently not as sophisticated as Europe and Japan.
This one statement alone is why I like to discuss with you. You do not drink too much of the kool aid and rarely do you go into cheer leading mode. However to some here, your state would be considered heresy as they truly believe Symbian will go away and Apple will dominate the entire Smartphone ( the iPhone is not a smartphone) market.
I think you are reading too far into the article. I don't think Daniel was saying Symbian is going out of business. He was showing through sales numbers that it's importance in the smartphone market is shrinking.
He's also pointing out from past experience of rewritting an OS can take a long time. By that point everyone else will have progressed.
You have a pretty good point but I also attribute this to the fact that the US market is currently not as sophisticated as Europe and Japan.
I don't think that's true at all. The US market has chosen not to use all of those features. Studies have shown most people in Japan and Europe don't even use all the phones features.
I think Mel's point is that the iPhone emphasizing the features most used will make it a universal success around the world.
I don't think that's true at all. The US market has chosen not to use all of those features. Studies have shown most people in Japan and Europe don't even use all the phones features.
I think Mel's point is that the iPhone emphasizing the features most used will make it a universal success around the world.
When you can buy a house or apartment on your phone I will agree with you. Can you purchase train tickets, concert tickets, or something as small as a Pepsi on your phone?
The problem with the phones are not the features but the knowledge to use them. I have friends there that have these super high-powered phones and have no idea how to use them, but explain the features to them and they suddenly have more features and power at their finger tips. In short I disagree with you. I would contend that the average European, or Japanese is more cell tech-savvy than the average American cell phone user. It is a matter of education. The iPhone has the ability to allow the US markets to play catch-up.
When you can buy a house or apartment on your phone I will agree with you. Can you purchase train tickets, concert tickets, or something as small as a Pepsi on your phone?
Yes you can purchase tickets and what not from your phone. Using e-commerce via website and credit card number.
Quote:
The problem with the phones are not the features but the knowledge to use them. I have friends there that have these super high-powered phones and have no idea how to use them, but explain the features to them and they suddenly have more features and power at their finger tips. In short I disagree with you. I would contend that the average European, or Japanese is more cell tech-savvy than the average American cell phone user. It is a matter of education. The iPhone has the ability to allow the US markets to play catch-up.
You cannot think beyond these features being high brow sophistication and see the reality of their necesity or practicality.
Their are features that we don't care about. US carriers offer mobile broadcast television. Few people want to pay for that.
Their are features that aren't very practical in the US. Being able to scan a bar code and buy things with your phone is one of them. We already have problems with electronic theft and identity fraud. The security of such a system seems so weak that I doubt we will ever adopt such a system.
Yes you can purchase tickets and what not from your phone. Using e-commerce via website and credit card number.
A ticket is not a house or apartment. These are sophiticated services that are common place here and other European countries, not to mention used by other countries.
Quote:
You cannot think beyond these features being high brow sophistication and see the reality of their necesity or practicality.
Their are features that we don't care about. US carriers offer mobile broadcast television. Few people want to pay for that.
By your reasoning, if they are not used in the US, then they are not important. Very myopic and typical.
Quote:
Their are features that aren't very practical in the US. Being able to scan a bar code and buy things with your phone is one of them. We already have problems with electronic theft and identity fraud. The security of such a system seems so weak that I doubt we will ever adopt such a system.
This is laughable. So, once again, if the US does not deem it noteworthy, it is not worth doing. You don't see this as being very sophomoric?
Only in a war time or danger environment. The only thing dangerous up here are the drunks who offer you their hooch, Finnish women *(can be very dangerous if you know what I mean), reindeer meat, and Finnish coffee (they put this mocha crap in it).
Didn't you say you would be going to the land of sun and sand soon?
Are you talking about build quality or features? Feature wise the N78 completely out specs the iPhone, as do the other phones mentioned there. In fact, so does just about every phone there from the E65 forward, and the N95 forward.
No, it seems to be built well. The way it functions seems to be a throwback. I'm tired about hearing about all the "features" some of these phones have. Who cares? I mean, really, who cares?
You have a pretty good point but I also attribute this to the fact that the US market is currently not as sophisticated as Europe and Japan.
I know that Europeans like to THINK they are sophisticated, but these clumsy phones prove that they are not. They just want to buy phones with features that they don't use, but can talk about.
The same thing is true n Japan, where we see articles, as well as posters here saying that most of the features are never used.
We need a full year of sales to tell what the story is really about. Our arguments now don't have any long term data to back them up either way.
No, it seems to be built well. The way it functions seems to be a throwback. I'm tired about hearing about all the "features" some of these phones have. Who cares? I mean, really, who cares?
Features don't make a product advanced.
Features do not make a product not advanced as well. For all of its bluster, the iPhone technology is not groundbreaking. For the most part it has been around in some form or another, however the way Apple put these technologies together is what is making the difference.
I know that Europeans like to THINK they are sophisticated, but these clumsy phones prove that they are not. They just want to buy phones with features that they don't use, but can talk about.
The same thing is true n Japan, where we see articles, as well as posters here saying that most of the features are never used.
We need a full year of sales to tell what the story is really about. Our arguments now don't have any long term data to back them up either way.
I will agree with your last statement 10000%. I still think that features unexplained are features viewed as not needed. I showed a co-worker that they could have Skype on their N78 but not on their iPhone and they say the ability to have VoIP via 3G or WiFI as a valuable feature that they did not know about. While Symbian may be clunky, I see it as being in the position to expand now that it has gone Open Source and Nokia will have controlling authority.
A ticket is not a house or apartment. These are sophiticated services that are common place here and other European countries, not to mention used by other countries.
By your reasoning, if they are not used in the US, then they are not important. Very myopic and typical.
This is laughable. So, once again, if the US does not deem it noteworthy, it is not worth doing. You don't see this as being very sophomoric?
It works the other way too. Just because some things can be done, doesn't make it worth while. Why do I want to buy something with my phone anyway? I have a credit card that can be used just as easily. It's just a matter of the vendors putting the equipment out. I buy my subway metro cards with my credit card from a machine. I can buy tickets to several railways the same way.
What's the advantage exactly of doing it with the phone, though I can do so through their websites from my phone, as Teno pointed out. I've bought many concert tickets that way from my computer, and I can do it from the phone if I wanted to.
...however the way Apple put these technologies together is what is making the difference.
That's the entire point that I've been trying to make. It's not the parts, it's the gestalt.
Technology by itself means nothing. WHO understands how that technology can be used is important. Jobs seems to know that.
Dropping some features that most people don't use is a very difficult thing to do correctly.
As I've said to you earlier, there are phones for everyone. Some people will like lots of little buttons with three or four levels of menus to get at some feature that most people will shrug at, and they should be allowed to have that.
But I'm willing to bet that most people will rather not have those features at all if their phone is easier to use, and has other features that mean more to them. The iPhone strikes a nerve most everywhere it's sold, because it does what many people want to do most, and it does it very well.
If anyone thinks that the iPhone is a finished product, I have to tell them that it's very unlikely. Apple will have OS 3, then OS 4 etc. They will also improve the physical parts, making the battery last longer, adding features as they see a way to do it so that they are easy, and even fun to use, etc.
That's why I think that you are barking up the wrong tree. Other manufacturers are on their forth, fifth, and even seventh generation smartphones (despite that you seem to think, wrongly, that this is not a smartphone), while Apple just started their second.
It works the other way too. Just because some things can be done, doesn't make it worth while. Why do I want to buy something with my phone anyway? I have a credit card that can be used just as easily. It's just a matter of the vendors putting the equipment out. I buy my subway metro cards with my credit card from a machine. I can buy tickets to several railways the same way.
That's the point. Rarely do I have cash and almost as much, I use my credit card less and less. I can simply pay from the phone. Here, the banking system and mobile phone systems are in tandem. They are designed to all purchases, reservations, etc... without having to pull out a credit card or laptop.
Quote:
What's the advantage exactly of doing it with the phone, though I can do so through their websites from my phone, as Teno pointed out. I've bought many concert tickets that way from my computer, and I can do it from the phone if I wanted to.
As I am away from my computer often, my phone now acts as my virtual wallet, but as I also mentioned, we purchased one of our properties while sitting in a movie theater using a mobile phone. I have not used the US banking system via telephone that much, so maybe you can elaborate as to its functionality but here, as well as a few other countries I have been in, the banking and mobile systems provide a greater air of payment mobility.
I will agree with your last statement 10000%. I still think that features unexplained are features viewed as not needed. I showed a co-worker that they could have Skype on their N78 but not on their iPhone and they say the ability to have VoIP via 3G or WiFI as a valuable feature that they did not know about. While Symbian may be clunky, I see it as being in the position to expand now that it has gone Open Source and Nokia will have controlling authority.
Not having Skype on the iPhone has nothing to do with the phone. It's the contract that denies it. You can't blame Apple, and the product for that. As we've recently seen, the same is true for tethering. The phone can easily do it, but the contract says no.
We'll see what happens as time goes on.
I think features that need someone else to explain them are poorly thought out features, and that the manufacturer should be held up as being poor at designing the phone.
Symbian is not only clunky, its considered to be done in such a way as to be very difficult to bring to to the required level. I'm not so sure this is really going to help.
As long as Nokia has real control, as it seems it will, it's not going to be a true open source project. As we saw with Sun and Java, until the company gives it up entirely, the open source community will balk. I doubt that Nokia is really serious about this being open source. It looks as though they want it both ways.
Don't forget also, that they did this only because they see it losing out in the long term, and they thought this might slow that down, or boost it back up. I doubt it will work.
That's the point. Rarely do I have cash and almost as much, I use my credit card less and less. I can simply pay from the phone. Here, the banking system and mobile phone systems are in tandem. They are designed to all purchases, reservations, etc... without having to pull out a credit card or laptop.
I see no advantage to pulling out a phone rather than a credit card. The money comes from the same place. They are equal in convenience.
Quote:
As I am away from my computer often, my phone now acts as my virtual wallet, but as I also mentioned, we purchased one of our properties while sitting in a movie theater using a mobile phone. I have not used the US banking system via telephone that much, so maybe you can elaborate as to its functionality but here, as well as a few other countries I have been in, the banking and mobile systems provide a greater air of payment mobility.
One of the last things I'm going to do is buy a house from a phone. There are some things that are too important to do without being there at the transaction.
But, we already pointed out, that if there is a website, it can be done from an iPhone in most cases already. Some of these companies are developing mobile sites for this purpose, and some have already. If people want to do something, it will be available at some point.
I've already bid on, bought things on eBay, and paid for them from my Paypal account from the iPhone apps. I did one earlier tonight.
I can make payments to AmEx, my utilities, and other bills through my phone if I want to.
The point is that you don't need specialized hardware on the phone to do this, or even specialized software.
That's the beauty of the iPhone. It's made the internet so much easier to use, that we can easily do things with it that most of the phones you're talking about can do with great difficulty, if at all. Therefore, they have specialized way of doing it. It's really old ideas. It came before an easy phone like the iPhone, with the enhanced data and internet capabilities came about. It wasn't even thought of. Like the French systems that were at one point thought to be so modern, and entrenched, that they would never be upended. But, where are they now? Gone. Just completely gone, as though they never were.
The generalized way it can be done on the iPhone is so much more elegant. In the long run, most, or all of what you do now, will be done with the iPhone as well, if people decide they need to do it.
Not having Skype on the iPhone has nothing to do with the phone. It's the contract that denies it. You can't blame Apple, and the product for that. As we've recently seen, the same is true for tethering. The phone can easily do it, but the contract says no.
You know this, I know this. A few people in this thread know this but the average person that wants to call his or her kids is looking for a solution. They do not care about the whys of an Apple contract or SDK. They want to call and find a phone that allows this.
Quote:
We'll see what happens as time goes on.
My question is, as unlimited data plans are generally no problem overseas, I do not see why Apple did not look regional and allow things that other phones are allowed to do. I think this is short sighted on their part and very provincial in their planning.
Quote:
I think features that need someone else to explain them are poorly thought out features, and that the manufacturer should be held up as being poor at designing the phone.
Symbian is not only clunky, its considered to be done in such a way as to be very difficult to bring to to the required level. I'm not so sure this is really going to help.
I have to disagree with you here. I have used both phones and can move freely between them both. The biggest thing I see is that many people don't bother to RTFM. Usually feature sets sit in the manual where people sometimes seldom seem to look.
Quote:
As long as Nokia has real control, as it seems it will, it's not going to be a true open source project. As we saw with Sun and Java, until the company gives it up entirely, the open source community will balk. I doubt that Nokia is really serious about this being open source. It looks as though they want it both ways.
Don't forget also, that they did this only because they see it losing out in the long term, and they thought this might slow that down, or boost it back up. I doubt it will work.
I disagree with you here as well. The core business of Nokia is making phones. They will adjust and maintain their share of the smartphone market. Apple will make in roads but this will be spread across the same markets that SE, Samsung, and the others share. Fact remains, there are simply some people that do not like the iPhone. For the enterprise, the iPhone is years behind WinMobile, RIM and Symbian. It will be a hard for Apple to place the iPhone in these markets when you have dedicated OS's designed to meet these enterprise needs. I think Apple will have to adjust their SDK if they want to see real enterprise features on the iPhone.
Comments
Partly due to the fact that Qualcomm sued them and they couldn't sell some of the phones there at one point.
Correct again.
Samsung, and others have done very well here. Nokia's products fail to interest N American purchasers, who don't in general, like the pokey phones that Europeans buy, but whose features aren't even used much over there. Like Japanese phones made for that market. They have all of these features and services, but not that many actually use them.
You have a pretty good point but I also attribute this to the fact that the US market is currently not as sophisticated as Europe and Japan.
This one statement alone is why I like to discuss with you. You do not drink too much of the kool aid and rarely do you go into cheer leading mode. However to some here, your state would be considered heresy as they truly believe Symbian will go away and Apple will dominate the entire Smartphone ( the iPhone is not a smartphone) market.
I think you are reading too far into the article. I don't think Daniel was saying Symbian is going out of business. He was showing through sales numbers that it's importance in the smartphone market is shrinking.
He's also pointing out from past experience of rewritting an OS can take a long time. By that point everyone else will have progressed.
You have a pretty good point but I also attribute this to the fact that the US market is currently not as sophisticated as Europe and Japan.
I don't think that's true at all. The US market has chosen not to use all of those features. Studies have shown most people in Japan and Europe don't even use all the phones features.
I think Mel's point is that the iPhone emphasizing the features most used will make it a universal success around the world.
I don't think that's true at all. The US market has chosen not to use all of those features. Studies have shown most people in Japan and Europe don't even use all the phones features.
I think Mel's point is that the iPhone emphasizing the features most used will make it a universal success around the world.
When you can buy a house or apartment on your phone I will agree with you. Can you purchase train tickets, concert tickets, or something as small as a Pepsi on your phone?
The problem with the phones are not the features but the knowledge to use them. I have friends there that have these super high-powered phones and have no idea how to use them, but explain the features to them and they suddenly have more features and power at their finger tips. In short I disagree with you. I would contend that the average European, or Japanese is more cell tech-savvy than the average American cell phone user. It is a matter of education. The iPhone has the ability to allow the US markets to play catch-up.
When you can buy a house or apartment on your phone I will agree with you. Can you purchase train tickets, concert tickets, or something as small as a Pepsi on your phone?
Yes you can purchase tickets and what not from your phone. Using e-commerce via website and credit card number.
The problem with the phones are not the features but the knowledge to use them. I have friends there that have these super high-powered phones and have no idea how to use them, but explain the features to them and they suddenly have more features and power at their finger tips. In short I disagree with you. I would contend that the average European, or Japanese is more cell tech-savvy than the average American cell phone user. It is a matter of education. The iPhone has the ability to allow the US markets to play catch-up.
You cannot think beyond these features being high brow sophistication and see the reality of their necesity or practicality.
Their are features that we don't care about. US carriers offer mobile broadcast television. Few people want to pay for that.
Their are features that aren't very practical in the US. Being able to scan a bar code and buy things with your phone is one of them. We already have problems with electronic theft and identity fraud. The security of such a system seems so weak that I doubt we will ever adopt such a system.
Yes you can purchase tickets and what not from your phone. Using e-commerce via website and credit card number.
A ticket is not a house or apartment. These are sophiticated services that are common place here and other European countries, not to mention used by other countries.
You cannot think beyond these features being high brow sophistication and see the reality of their necesity or practicality.
Their are features that we don't care about. US carriers offer mobile broadcast television. Few people want to pay for that.
By your reasoning, if they are not used in the US, then they are not important. Very myopic and typical.
Their are features that aren't very practical in the US. Being able to scan a bar code and buy things with your phone is one of them. We already have problems with electronic theft and identity fraud. The security of such a system seems so weak that I doubt we will ever adopt such a system.
This is laughable. So, once again, if the US does not deem it noteworthy, it is not worth doing. You don't see this as being very sophomoric?
Only in a war time or danger environment. The only thing dangerous up here are the drunks who offer you their hooch, Finnish women *(can be very dangerous if you know what I mean), reindeer meat, and Finnish coffee (they put this mocha crap in it).
Didn't you say you would be going to the land of sun and sand soon?
Are you talking about build quality or features? Feature wise the N78 completely out specs the iPhone, as do the other phones mentioned there. In fact, so does just about every phone there from the E65 forward, and the N95 forward.
No, it seems to be built well. The way it functions seems to be a throwback. I'm tired about hearing about all the "features" some of these phones have. Who cares? I mean, really, who cares?
Features don't make a product advanced.
Correct again.
That's not correct. Their phones stopped being significant here years ago.
You have a pretty good point but I also attribute this to the fact that the US market is currently not as sophisticated as Europe and Japan.
I know that Europeans like to THINK they are sophisticated, but these clumsy phones prove that they are not. They just want to buy phones with features that they don't use, but can talk about.
The same thing is true n Japan, where we see articles, as well as posters here saying that most of the features are never used.
We need a full year of sales to tell what the story is really about. Our arguments now don't have any long term data to back them up either way.
Didn't you say you would be going to the land of sun and sand soon?
I work for the govt. You know. Hurry up and wait. Might divert to Germany first. Who knows?
No, it seems to be built well. The way it functions seems to be a throwback. I'm tired about hearing about all the "features" some of these phones have. Who cares? I mean, really, who cares?
Features don't make a product advanced.
Features do not make a product not advanced as well. For all of its bluster, the iPhone technology is not groundbreaking. For the most part it has been around in some form or another, however the way Apple put these technologies together is what is making the difference.
I know that Europeans like to THINK they are sophisticated, but these clumsy phones prove that they are not. They just want to buy phones with features that they don't use, but can talk about.
The same thing is true n Japan, where we see articles, as well as posters here saying that most of the features are never used.
We need a full year of sales to tell what the story is really about. Our arguments now don't have any long term data to back them up either way.
I will agree with your last statement 10000%. I still think that features unexplained are features viewed as not needed. I showed a co-worker that they could have Skype on their N78 but not on their iPhone and they say the ability to have VoIP via 3G or WiFI as a valuable feature that they did not know about. While Symbian may be clunky, I see it as being in the position to expand now that it has gone Open Source and Nokia will have controlling authority.
A ticket is not a house or apartment. These are sophiticated services that are common place here and other European countries, not to mention used by other countries.
By your reasoning, if they are not used in the US, then they are not important. Very myopic and typical.
This is laughable. So, once again, if the US does not deem it noteworthy, it is not worth doing. You don't see this as being very sophomoric?
It works the other way too. Just because some things can be done, doesn't make it worth while. Why do I want to buy something with my phone anyway? I have a credit card that can be used just as easily. It's just a matter of the vendors putting the equipment out. I buy my subway metro cards with my credit card from a machine. I can buy tickets to several railways the same way.
What's the advantage exactly of doing it with the phone, though I can do so through their websites from my phone, as Teno pointed out. I've bought many concert tickets that way from my computer, and I can do it from the phone if I wanted to.
...however the way Apple put these technologies together is what is making the difference.
That's the entire point that I've been trying to make. It's not the parts, it's the gestalt.
Technology by itself means nothing. WHO understands how that technology can be used is important. Jobs seems to know that.
Dropping some features that most people don't use is a very difficult thing to do correctly.
As I've said to you earlier, there are phones for everyone. Some people will like lots of little buttons with three or four levels of menus to get at some feature that most people will shrug at, and they should be allowed to have that.
But I'm willing to bet that most people will rather not have those features at all if their phone is easier to use, and has other features that mean more to them. The iPhone strikes a nerve most everywhere it's sold, because it does what many people want to do most, and it does it very well.
If anyone thinks that the iPhone is a finished product, I have to tell them that it's very unlikely. Apple will have OS 3, then OS 4 etc. They will also improve the physical parts, making the battery last longer, adding features as they see a way to do it so that they are easy, and even fun to use, etc.
That's why I think that you are barking up the wrong tree. Other manufacturers are on their forth, fifth, and even seventh generation smartphones (despite that you seem to think, wrongly, that this is not a smartphone), while Apple just started their second.
It works the other way too. Just because some things can be done, doesn't make it worth while. Why do I want to buy something with my phone anyway? I have a credit card that can be used just as easily. It's just a matter of the vendors putting the equipment out. I buy my subway metro cards with my credit card from a machine. I can buy tickets to several railways the same way.
That's the point. Rarely do I have cash and almost as much, I use my credit card less and less. I can simply pay from the phone. Here, the banking system and mobile phone systems are in tandem. They are designed to all purchases, reservations, etc... without having to pull out a credit card or laptop.
What's the advantage exactly of doing it with the phone, though I can do so through their websites from my phone, as Teno pointed out. I've bought many concert tickets that way from my computer, and I can do it from the phone if I wanted to.
As I am away from my computer often, my phone now acts as my virtual wallet, but as I also mentioned, we purchased one of our properties while sitting in a movie theater using a mobile phone. I have not used the US banking system via telephone that much, so maybe you can elaborate as to its functionality but here, as well as a few other countries I have been in, the banking and mobile systems provide a greater air of payment mobility.
I will agree with your last statement 10000%. I still think that features unexplained are features viewed as not needed. I showed a co-worker that they could have Skype on their N78 but not on their iPhone and they say the ability to have VoIP via 3G or WiFI as a valuable feature that they did not know about. While Symbian may be clunky, I see it as being in the position to expand now that it has gone Open Source and Nokia will have controlling authority.
Not having Skype on the iPhone has nothing to do with the phone. It's the contract that denies it. You can't blame Apple, and the product for that. As we've recently seen, the same is true for tethering. The phone can easily do it, but the contract says no.
We'll see what happens as time goes on.
I think features that need someone else to explain them are poorly thought out features, and that the manufacturer should be held up as being poor at designing the phone.
Symbian is not only clunky, its considered to be done in such a way as to be very difficult to bring to to the required level. I'm not so sure this is really going to help.
As long as Nokia has real control, as it seems it will, it's not going to be a true open source project. As we saw with Sun and Java, until the company gives it up entirely, the open source community will balk. I doubt that Nokia is really serious about this being open source. It looks as though they want it both ways.
Don't forget also, that they did this only because they see it losing out in the long term, and they thought this might slow that down, or boost it back up. I doubt it will work.
That's the point. Rarely do I have cash and almost as much, I use my credit card less and less. I can simply pay from the phone. Here, the banking system and mobile phone systems are in tandem. They are designed to all purchases, reservations, etc... without having to pull out a credit card or laptop.
I see no advantage to pulling out a phone rather than a credit card. The money comes from the same place. They are equal in convenience.
As I am away from my computer often, my phone now acts as my virtual wallet, but as I also mentioned, we purchased one of our properties while sitting in a movie theater using a mobile phone. I have not used the US banking system via telephone that much, so maybe you can elaborate as to its functionality but here, as well as a few other countries I have been in, the banking and mobile systems provide a greater air of payment mobility.
One of the last things I'm going to do is buy a house from a phone. There are some things that are too important to do without being there at the transaction.
But, we already pointed out, that if there is a website, it can be done from an iPhone in most cases already. Some of these companies are developing mobile sites for this purpose, and some have already. If people want to do something, it will be available at some point.
I've already bid on, bought things on eBay, and paid for them from my Paypal account from the iPhone apps. I did one earlier tonight.
I can make payments to AmEx, my utilities, and other bills through my phone if I want to.
The point is that you don't need specialized hardware on the phone to do this, or even specialized software.
That's the beauty of the iPhone. It's made the internet so much easier to use, that we can easily do things with it that most of the phones you're talking about can do with great difficulty, if at all. Therefore, they have specialized way of doing it. It's really old ideas. It came before an easy phone like the iPhone, with the enhanced data and internet capabilities came about. It wasn't even thought of. Like the French systems that were at one point thought to be so modern, and entrenched, that they would never be upended. But, where are they now? Gone. Just completely gone, as though they never were.
The generalized way it can be done on the iPhone is so much more elegant. In the long run, most, or all of what you do now, will be done with the iPhone as well, if people decide they need to do it.
Not having Skype on the iPhone has nothing to do with the phone. It's the contract that denies it. You can't blame Apple, and the product for that. As we've recently seen, the same is true for tethering. The phone can easily do it, but the contract says no.
You know this, I know this. A few people in this thread know this but the average person that wants to call his or her kids is looking for a solution. They do not care about the whys of an Apple contract or SDK. They want to call and find a phone that allows this.
We'll see what happens as time goes on.
My question is, as unlimited data plans are generally no problem overseas, I do not see why Apple did not look regional and allow things that other phones are allowed to do. I think this is short sighted on their part and very provincial in their planning.
I think features that need someone else to explain them are poorly thought out features, and that the manufacturer should be held up as being poor at designing the phone.
Symbian is not only clunky, its considered to be done in such a way as to be very difficult to bring to to the required level. I'm not so sure this is really going to help.
I have to disagree with you here. I have used both phones and can move freely between them both. The biggest thing I see is that many people don't bother to RTFM. Usually feature sets sit in the manual where people sometimes seldom seem to look.
As long as Nokia has real control, as it seems it will, it's not going to be a true open source project. As we saw with Sun and Java, until the company gives it up entirely, the open source community will balk. I doubt that Nokia is really serious about this being open source. It looks as though they want it both ways.
Don't forget also, that they did this only because they see it losing out in the long term, and they thought this might slow that down, or boost it back up. I doubt it will work.
I disagree with you here as well. The core business of Nokia is making phones. They will adjust and maintain their share of the smartphone market. Apple will make in roads but this will be spread across the same markets that SE, Samsung, and the others share. Fact remains, there are simply some people that do not like the iPhone. For the enterprise, the iPhone is years behind WinMobile, RIM and Symbian. It will be a hard for Apple to place the iPhone in these markets when you have dedicated OS's designed to meet these enterprise needs. I think Apple will have to adjust their SDK if they want to see real enterprise features on the iPhone.