wisecrack my general point was that you get the same computer or worse, for more cost, a year later.
ok sure the maximum offered drive was 250GB but they fit a $50 320GB drive don't they. (not $50 updgrade - $50 retail, so you still have the 250 or 160Gb drive to use as an external)
if i bought a similar spec dell laptop for half the price i wouldn't get an extended warranty because if it died i could buy another one and still not spend as much overall.
The chipset and RAM are faster. The GPU is 5 times faster. LCD screen. Its not exactly the same computer.
Its true you can get a notebook from Dell at half the cost. Its not true you can get this notebook from Dell at half the cost.
Do you know anything about cars? Clearly not, because if you did, you would know that the fastest and most reliable cars money can buy right now are badged with Nissan, Dodge, and Chevrolet (the GT-R, the Viper ACR and the Corvette ZR-1) and they cost orders of magnitude less than their equivalent Porsche, Aston Martin, and Ferrari counterparts AND manage to be more economical on fuel and maintenance.
And yet Ferrari still has so many orders that you can't get one new for as many as 4 years and Porsche just had their highest sales year ever with Aston Martin not far behind. The point is, people are willing to pay more for a premium product, performance and features be damned, so if you want to play, you've got to pay. If you can't afford it, get something else or nothing at all. You don't see people whining about not being able to afford an Aston Martin DBS, so why are they whining about this?
ok good point about the cars, but the 'premium' cars you talk about still have very good specs, these macbooks have entry level specs.
sorry dont know what you're talking about with the Viper ACR and the Corvette ZR-1, the rest of the world doesn't import sh*tbox american tractors.
I need suggestions. I've been waiting for 6 months for this update. To me it seems the better value would be to get the "blackbook" from the last line of macbooks for cheaper. Faster processor, more space on the HD, FW ports and for cheaper. Or should I go with the new 13" for $1249 (with educational discount)? I'd also probably upgrade to the 250GB for another $100. Processor speed is negligible for the most part correct? Thoughts? I 100% need a new laptop ASAP though. Please help here!! I am so mad at apple. I sent a complaint on the feedback. Please anybody that thinks screw that I'm just 1 more person it won't make a difference, it takes seconds! We can get a change if we all say something! Apple will open its eyes eventually!
I would not buy the black MacBook over the new one for $100. savings.
New one will be faster due to graphics chip set, penryn CPU, front side buss speed, nicer design and LED-backlit display, 1pound lighter, probably longer battery life, and more.
ok good point about the cars, but the 'premium' cars you talk about still have very good specs, these macbooks have entry level specs.
This is not true. You people need to stop spreading false information. Dell uses the same CPU chips the MacBook is using in its $1000+ notebooks. No notebook under $1000 is using the Macbook chipset or GPU.
A 1066MHz Bus, DDR 3 RAM, 1280x800 LED screen are not entry level.
I need suggestions. I've been waiting for 6 months for this update. To me it seems the better value would be to get the "blackbook" from the last line of macbooks for cheaper. Faster processor, more space on the HD, FW ports and for cheaper. Or should I go with the new 13" for $1249 (with educational discount)? I'd also probably upgrade to the 250GB for another $100. Processor speed is negligible for the most part correct? Thoughts? I 100% need a new laptop ASAP though. Please help here!! I am so mad at apple. I sent a complaint on the feedback. Please anybody that thinks screw that I'm just 1 more person it won't make a difference, it takes seconds! We can get a change if we all say something! Apple will open its eyes eventually!
Depends on what you want most, both are fine machines. Overall the new MacBook will be a faster system. The CPU doesn't matter that much.
The low-end new macbook (or the middle range macbook now) has a 2.0ghz processor for $1350 or so. The OLD mid-range macbook had a 2.4ghz processor for $1250. His statement is therefore completely correct. What exactly are YOU referring to?
Um, read his comments again and then read mine. He clearly is referring to the NEW MB, not the plastic one.
As for a lower clock speed, we all know (well, those of us who aren't completely ignorant) that the Centrino 2 1066 2GHz is faster than the older Santa Rosa at slightly high clock speeds.
I don't understand why BMW doesn't just use Kia components to become more cost competitive. BMW would be way cheaper if they used flimsy, outdated parts and ugly designs. Why don't we also fire BMW's management. Who cares if they are profitable, you and I know better. We can easily outsmart the management of BMW and Apple. Shall we start tomorrow?
So your sarcasm is to indicate your belief that OS X computing should be a luxury and not just for practicality?
Of course it is wider, It's using a 13" screen. I said that this is the most complete successor to the 12" Powerbook Apple has made so far. The old MacBooks were larger and heavier with no real graphics card and the Air is positioned for a different market. This is aluminum with a discreet graphics card (albeit with shared memory) and it weighs well under 5lbs. It doesn't have an expresscard slot, but neither did the 12" Powerbook. Until today, I was prepared to go out and buy a Sony 13" notebook because nothing Apple made appealed to me. This does virtually everything I want (well, I wanted BluRay, but I can wait for that) at over a grand less.
The new MB is certainly much more enticing than Sony SZ models and CHEAPER too. Some people (not you, obviously) don't seem to notice this and want to compare cheaply made 15" Acer laptops to the new MB (completely absurd comparison).
My statement about the 12" PowerBook is in reference to those who desire its size. The 12" never had a backlit keyboard, and its GPU was nothing special. In fact, for some things, even the X3100 on the old MacBook is superior.
the missing firewire port is really annoying. it's not just because of cameras..
there are a ton of djs, electronic musicians that use a macbook because of it's size. infact i think that almost all acts that I've seen in the last 3 years had one on stage, but without firewire you can't connect most external soundcards (which you need for djing and performing).
It's really weird that I can't get a mac now. The Pro is too big for my needs and the without firewire I just can't connect my soundcard.
very weird move apple... and I've sort of already gotten over the glossy screen issue
Yeah, it was dumb move to leave out firewire. I too need small form factor and would have liked the assurance of firewire. Apple is smoking bad weed these days with all their product decisions. So really what is the point of the macbook air apart from using it to be a snob? If it were smaller like 8-10 inch screen, i'd get it it would be the awsomest netbook. Speaking of which steve thinks netbook is a fad, Blu-ray is a bag of hurt, HDMI does not support HD resolution (hello its the connector of choice for HD) and tablets are not on their mind. I'm not buying a new mac until they add blu-ray. Was hoping for a netbook guess i'm going to have to hackintosh it. With the ipod touch/iphone they should have BT stereo headphone support, support for their apple radio remote and cut and paste by now. What's with that Nike crap?
With no HDMI, means a mac mini media server is out. Their implementation of DVI is also not standard so trying to connect a mac mini to an AVR with HDMI inputs (using an adapter) does not work without moding the cable. It works as a direct connection to a TV but for some reason does not work through an AVR/Pre/Pro like the integra 9.9.
Also there is no displayport to composite cable which is the first time they don't have one. This is an important cable for me as i use it to hook the laptop to the TV in the hotel room when i travel. This way i can watch my shows or movies or listen to music using the in room tv. I wonder if i connected a DP to DVI adapter to a DVI to composite adapter if it would work.
Also what with silver? Its such a distracting color. Which is why all good tv's use black. Compare it on an silver and black ipod. You focus more on the subject matter then the screen. They tried surrounding the screen with a black border but its still distracting. Silver is the new beige. I would have preferred black aluminum. or better yet black carbon fiber. PCs are starting to get really fashionable. At this point i might even consider a Voodoo Envy 133 and hackintosh it.
Steve said that this would be the best year ever, its so far has been the worst. I've been a fanboy for 25 years but nothing apple has put out in the last 2 years compels me to spend my money. Its all half baked or genius but doesn't live up its its potential.
I wonder what lame, craptacular or half baked product they will announce at Macworld in Jan. Hell has frozen over for me when i say Apple really disgusts me at this point.
Imagine how well these new MB's would have sold if they had added an expresscard slot (so we could get firewire, eSata, etc..) or just kept a firewire port AND also started at $999.
It has nothing to do with cost, if other companies can include expresscard and firewire in laptops for $599, Apple could at $999. Hell, even at $1299 that would have at least been worth it. Apple really screwed the pooch with this one.
Actually, if complainers like you would just do some research, you would notice that there is no 13" notebook on the market with the MB's features (non-plastic, el cheapo case) and specs for anywhere near $599. You are comparing Turion/Pentium 4 Dual-Core/Old 667MHz bus Core 2 CPU 15" PC laptops to the MB, and this is not a fair comparison.
The new MB is in competition with the M1330 XPS and Sony SZ models, and the MB is actually much cheaper than the Sony SZ.
This is not true. You people need to stop spreading false information. Dell uses the same CPU chips the MacBook is using in its $1000+ notebooks. No notebook under $1000 is using the Macbook chipset or GPU.
A 1066MHz Bus, DDR 3 RAM, 1280x800 LED screen are not entry level.
Thanks, TenoBell. It's nice to see some posters who actually are aware of the facts and don't just make them up.
People, stop trying to compare 15-16-17 inch PC notebooks priced at $600 with the 13" MB. There is no comparison. Aside from the LED screen (and its size), the CPUs are not the same, nor are the GPUs, chipsets, features, and most importantly, the OS!
I'm not being an Apple fanboy. These are just the facts. Compare apples to apples (sorry for the pun), not apples to oranges.
I do agree with some of the complaints about Apple's going too far high-end. Apple should have released a "lesser" version of the new MB for $1000-11000.
I've thought about this FireWire issue, and come up with a couple of sane explanation on WHYYY THE H@LL FireWire is left out on the consumer notebook.
- Apple has recognized that users with FireWire peripherals are users that will more likely spend more money on their computer. All FireWire peripherals cost a little more than its USB counterpart. So they want us to buy the premium product, so that they can sell the consumer product at a lower price to even more people, and the pro model to even more people, and earn a bigger buck all together.
- Apple marketed the FireWire for consumers in the beginning of the DV camera era. Now they realized that these new video cameras coming up all shoot on SD cards in h264. So future consumers don't need FireWire anymore for video, which was probably the number one use of FireWire amongst consumers (I'm just guessing here.)
(Odd in this context though is that you can buy the cheapest (old design) MacBook in plastic white for $999, and it includes FireWire...)
I would have considered both the Air and the MacBook had they sported FireWire. Now I'm left with only one choice, MacBook Pro. Apple simply tells me what to do, and I don't get to make the choice myself. I don't like it. (And no, the white plastic MacBook isn't an option.)
My statement about the 12" PowerBook is in reference to those who desire its size. The 12" never had a backlit keyboard, and its GPU was nothing special. In fact, for some things, even the X3100 on the old MacBook is superior.
Yes the 12" PB was essentially an aluminum clad iBook,
I've thought about this FireWire issue, and come up with a couple of sane explanation on WHYYY THE H@LL FireWire is left out on the consumer notebook.
Ten years ago when Intel refused to support FireWire in its chipsets, that pretty much put FireWire on the path to a slow death.
50% of new Mac buyers are coming from the PC. They are mostly buying the MacBook. The overwhelming majority of these people have never used FireWire and will never make common use of it.
Yes the 12" PB was essentially an aluminum clad iBook,
At the time, I chose the 12" PB because of its DVI. Its slightly smaller size and aluminum case were bonuses over the iBook, but I personally needed DVI.
Comments
wisecrack my general point was that you get the same computer or worse, for more cost, a year later.
ok sure the maximum offered drive was 250GB but they fit a $50 320GB drive don't they. (not $50 updgrade - $50 retail, so you still have the 250 or 160Gb drive to use as an external)
if i bought a similar spec dell laptop for half the price i wouldn't get an extended warranty because if it died i could buy another one and still not spend as much overall.
The chipset and RAM are faster. The GPU is 5 times faster. LCD screen. Its not exactly the same computer.
Its true you can get a notebook from Dell at half the cost. Its not true you can get this notebook from Dell at half the cost.
The chipset and RAM are faster. The GPU is 5 times faster. LCD screen. Its not exactly the same computer.
Its true you can get a notebook from Dell at half the cost. Its not true you can get this notebook from Dell at half the cost.
Amen, crackbook. Well said!!! Check it out at your local Apple Store before you decide!
Do you know anything about cars? Clearly not, because if you did, you would know that the fastest and most reliable cars money can buy right now are badged with Nissan, Dodge, and Chevrolet (the GT-R, the Viper ACR and the Corvette ZR-1) and they cost orders of magnitude less than their equivalent Porsche, Aston Martin, and Ferrari counterparts AND manage to be more economical on fuel and maintenance.
And yet Ferrari still has so many orders that you can't get one new for as many as 4 years and Porsche just had their highest sales year ever with Aston Martin not far behind. The point is, people are willing to pay more for a premium product, performance and features be damned, so if you want to play, you've got to pay. If you can't afford it, get something else or nothing at all. You don't see people whining about not being able to afford an Aston Martin DBS, so why are they whining about this?
ok good point about the cars, but the 'premium' cars you talk about still have very good specs, these macbooks have entry level specs.
sorry dont know what you're talking about with the Viper ACR and the Corvette ZR-1, the rest of the world doesn't import sh*tbox american tractors.
New one will be faster due to graphics chip set, penryn CPU, front side buss speed, nicer design and LED-backlit display, 1pound lighter, probably longer battery life, and more.
Look at it in an Apple Store tomorrow.
Good Luck!
Thanks for making my mind up Apple, I'll spend the money on something else...
ok good point about the cars, but the 'premium' cars you talk about still have very good specs, these macbooks have entry level specs.
This is not true. You people need to stop spreading false information. Dell uses the same CPU chips the MacBook is using in its $1000+ notebooks. No notebook under $1000 is using the Macbook chipset or GPU.
A 1066MHz Bus, DDR 3 RAM, 1280x800 LED screen are not entry level.
I need suggestions. I've been waiting for 6 months for this update. To me it seems the better value would be to get the "blackbook" from the last line of macbooks for cheaper. Faster processor, more space on the HD, FW ports and for cheaper. Or should I go with the new 13" for $1249 (with educational discount)? I'd also probably upgrade to the 250GB for another $100. Processor speed is negligible for the most part correct? Thoughts? I 100% need a new laptop ASAP though. Please help here!! I am so mad at apple. I sent a complaint on the feedback. Please anybody that thinks screw that I'm just 1 more person it won't make a difference, it takes seconds! We can get a change if we all say something! Apple will open its eyes eventually!
Depends on what you want most, both are fine machines. Overall the new MacBook will be a faster system. The CPU doesn't matter that much.
The low-end new macbook (or the middle range macbook now) has a 2.0ghz processor for $1350 or so. The OLD mid-range macbook had a 2.4ghz processor for $1250. His statement is therefore completely correct. What exactly are YOU referring to?
Um, read his comments again and then read mine. He clearly is referring to the NEW MB, not the plastic one.
As for a lower clock speed, we all know (well, those of us who aren't completely ignorant) that the Centrino 2 1066 2GHz is faster than the older Santa Rosa at slightly high clock speeds.
it's kind of the same C2D processor. So it's a downgrade. No matter if it got a faster graphics chip.
First processor downgrade in history
No, it is not the "same C2D processor." Check again.
I don't understand why BMW doesn't just use Kia components to become more cost competitive. BMW would be way cheaper if they used flimsy, outdated parts and ugly designs. Why don't we also fire BMW's management. Who cares if they are profitable, you and I know better. We can easily outsmart the management of BMW and Apple. Shall we start tomorrow?
So your sarcasm is to indicate your belief that OS X computing should be a luxury and not just for practicality?
Of course it is wider, It's using a 13" screen. I said that this is the most complete successor to the 12" Powerbook Apple has made so far. The old MacBooks were larger and heavier with no real graphics card and the Air is positioned for a different market. This is aluminum with a discreet graphics card (albeit with shared memory) and it weighs well under 5lbs. It doesn't have an expresscard slot, but neither did the 12" Powerbook. Until today, I was prepared to go out and buy a Sony 13" notebook because nothing Apple made appealed to me. This does virtually everything I want (well, I wanted BluRay, but I can wait for that) at over a grand less.
The new MB is certainly much more enticing than Sony SZ models and CHEAPER too. Some people (not you, obviously) don't seem to notice this and want to compare cheaply made 15" Acer laptops to the new MB (completely absurd comparison).
My statement about the 12" PowerBook is in reference to those who desire its size. The 12" never had a backlit keyboard, and its GPU was nothing special. In fact, for some things, even the X3100 on the old MacBook is superior.
the missing firewire port is really annoying. it's not just because of cameras..
there are a ton of djs, electronic musicians that use a macbook because of it's size. infact i think that almost all acts that I've seen in the last 3 years had one on stage, but without firewire you can't connect most external soundcards (which you need for djing and performing).
It's really weird that I can't get a mac now. The Pro is too big for my needs and the without firewire I just can't connect my soundcard.
very weird move apple... and I've sort of already gotten over the glossy screen issue
Yeah, it was dumb move to leave out firewire. I too need small form factor and would have liked the assurance of firewire. Apple is smoking bad weed these days with all their product decisions. So really what is the point of the macbook air apart from using it to be a snob? If it were smaller like 8-10 inch screen, i'd get it it would be the awsomest netbook. Speaking of which steve thinks netbook is a fad, Blu-ray is a bag of hurt, HDMI does not support HD resolution (hello its the connector of choice for HD) and tablets are not on their mind. I'm not buying a new mac until they add blu-ray. Was hoping for a netbook guess i'm going to have to hackintosh it. With the ipod touch/iphone they should have BT stereo headphone support, support for their apple radio remote and cut and paste by now. What's with that Nike crap?
With no HDMI, means a mac mini media server is out. Their implementation of DVI is also not standard so trying to connect a mac mini to an AVR with HDMI inputs (using an adapter) does not work without moding the cable. It works as a direct connection to a TV but for some reason does not work through an AVR/Pre/Pro like the integra 9.9.
Also there is no displayport to composite cable which is the first time they don't have one. This is an important cable for me as i use it to hook the laptop to the TV in the hotel room when i travel. This way i can watch my shows or movies or listen to music using the in room tv. I wonder if i connected a DP to DVI adapter to a DVI to composite adapter if it would work.
Also what with silver? Its such a distracting color. Which is why all good tv's use black. Compare it on an silver and black ipod. You focus more on the subject matter then the screen. They tried surrounding the screen with a black border but its still distracting. Silver is the new beige. I would have preferred black aluminum. or better yet black carbon fiber. PCs are starting to get really fashionable. At this point i might even consider a Voodoo Envy 133 and hackintosh it.
Steve said that this would be the best year ever, its so far has been the worst. I've been a fanboy for 25 years but nothing apple has put out in the last 2 years compels me to spend my money. Its all half baked or genius but doesn't live up its its potential.
I wonder what lame, craptacular or half baked product they will announce at Macworld in Jan. Hell has frozen over for me when i say Apple really disgusts me at this point.
Imagine how well these new MB's would have sold if they had added an expresscard slot (so we could get firewire, eSata, etc..) or just kept a firewire port AND also started at $999.
It has nothing to do with cost, if other companies can include expresscard and firewire in laptops for $599, Apple could at $999. Hell, even at $1299 that would have at least been worth it. Apple really screwed the pooch with this one.
Please send comments to http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbook.html and let them know just how dissapointed we are.
Actually, if complainers like you would just do some research, you would notice that there is no 13" notebook on the market with the MB's features (non-plastic, el cheapo case) and specs for anywhere near $599. You are comparing Turion/Pentium 4 Dual-Core/Old 667MHz bus Core 2 CPU 15" PC laptops to the MB, and this is not a fair comparison.
The new MB is in competition with the M1330 XPS and Sony SZ models, and the MB is actually much cheaper than the Sony SZ.
This is not true. You people need to stop spreading false information. Dell uses the same CPU chips the MacBook is using in its $1000+ notebooks. No notebook under $1000 is using the Macbook chipset or GPU.
A 1066MHz Bus, DDR 3 RAM, 1280x800 LED screen are not entry level.
Thanks, TenoBell. It's nice to see some posters who actually are aware of the facts and don't just make them up.
People, stop trying to compare 15-16-17 inch PC notebooks priced at $600 with the 13" MB. There is no comparison. Aside from the LED screen (and its size), the CPUs are not the same, nor are the GPUs, chipsets, features, and most importantly, the OS!
I'm not being an Apple fanboy. These are just the facts. Compare apples to apples (sorry for the pun), not apples to oranges.
I do agree with some of the complaints about Apple's going too far high-end. Apple should have released a "lesser" version of the new MB for $1000-11000.
- Apple has recognized that users with FireWire peripherals are users that will more likely spend more money on their computer. All FireWire peripherals cost a little more than its USB counterpart. So they want us to buy the premium product, so that they can sell the consumer product at a lower price to even more people, and the pro model to even more people, and earn a bigger buck all together.
- Apple marketed the FireWire for consumers in the beginning of the DV camera era. Now they realized that these new video cameras coming up all shoot on SD cards in h264. So future consumers don't need FireWire anymore for video, which was probably the number one use of FireWire amongst consumers (I'm just guessing here.)
(Odd in this context though is that you can buy the cheapest (old design) MacBook in plastic white for $999, and it includes FireWire...)
I would have considered both the Air and the MacBook had they sported FireWire. Now I'm left with only one choice, MacBook Pro. Apple simply tells me what to do, and I don't get to make the choice myself. I don't like it. (And no, the white plastic MacBook isn't an option.)
The new laptops look smashing though
My statement about the 12" PowerBook is in reference to those who desire its size. The 12" never had a backlit keyboard, and its GPU was nothing special. In fact, for some things, even the X3100 on the old MacBook is superior.
Yes the 12" PB was essentially an aluminum clad iBook,
I've thought about this FireWire issue, and come up with a couple of sane explanation on WHYYY THE H@LL FireWire is left out on the consumer notebook.
Ten years ago when Intel refused to support FireWire in its chipsets, that pretty much put FireWire on the path to a slow death.
50% of new Mac buyers are coming from the PC. They are mostly buying the MacBook. The overwhelming majority of these people have never used FireWire and will never make common use of it.
Yes the 12" PB was essentially an aluminum clad iBook,
At the time, I chose the 12" PB because of its DVI. Its slightly smaller size and aluminum case were bonuses over the iBook, but I personally needed DVI.