Jobs responds to outrage over MacBook's missing FireWire

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  • Reply 41 of 1665
    dreyfus2dreyfus2 Posts: 1,072member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    I've captured 50Mbps DVC-Pro HD across USB. It does work.



    From a camera (which camera) or just transferring data off memory (P2 or similar) - the latter is not capturing? I highly doubt that. I get occasional audio sync errors capturing DVCPRO HD even using FW400... (but I am talking 1080p here)... Only when using a FW800 disk on a second bus it does work at all.
  • Reply 42 of 1665
    jasenj1jasenj1 Posts: 923member
    Removing FireWire gives consumers and manufacturers even less incentive to use it. Humorously enough, FireWire is still on the plastic MacBook. So it is on the lowest priced machine, but not on the "new" entry level machine.



    I think it is a mistake, but not one that will really hurt Apple in the long run.



    - Jasen.
  • Reply 43 of 1665
    eulereuler Posts: 81member
    Steve may be right that most recent HD camcorders are USB 2.0, but:

    1. Do most people have HD camcorders? I don't. I have a SD panasonic camcorder...

    2. Does this really change the price of the computer that much? Really, would this have cost them more than a couple bucks to add?

    3. Is Firewire Obsolete? I dont think so...
  • Reply 44 of 1665
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post


    From a camera (which camera) or just transferring data off memory (P2 or similar) - the latter is not capturing? I highly doubt that. I get occasional audio sync errors capturing DVCPRO HD even using FW400... (but I am talking 1080p here)... Only when using a FW800 disk on a second bus it does work at all.



    From P2. You are right its not capturing in the same sense as real time video tape. But the industry is moving toward solid state storage anyway.
  • Reply 45 of 1665
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by OriginalMacRat View Post


    Steve Jobs has finally lost it. (Well, actually he's been a bit loopy for the past year.)



    Time for him to go.



    Dude, you lost it time for you to go!



    #1, Apple made a good point on the decision that I support! I'm using the Mac Mini now and I have never used the Firewire since I bought it. I support the decision.



    #2, If you was truly serious with audio and or video editing then buy a MacBook Pro if you can't then finance it and if you can't do that then save your money.



    #3, If you can't respect Apple's decision then you can go to Windows!
  • Reply 46 of 1665
    iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,824member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by corinhorn View Post


    All that I know for sure is I will not spend one bloody dime on an Apple notebook until FireWire is back on the MacBook. I'm not going to spend an extra $500 to get the MacBook Pro.



    I've been a Mac user for 10 years, and for the first time ever I am considering buying a Dell.



    Your response I feel, is perfectly understandable.
  • Reply 47 of 1665
    welshdogwelshdog Posts: 1,902member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    It retains clear advantages over USB 2.0 among higher performance hard drives, but in that market, FireWire is now competing against eSATA, which developed from ATA cabling.



    eSATA does not compete with Firewire on Macs for most people. It is not hot pluggable on Macs or on the vast majority of PCs without a lot of effort. You have to restart your computer to mount an eSATA drive. Wow that is so convenient. I also find the eSATA connectors to be very flimsy. Firewire connectors might not be perfect, but they are better than eSATA.



    We use Firewire every dang day where I work and it is faster than USB. eSATA is fast but a pain to deal with. Firewire wins. And Target Mode rules.
  • Reply 48 of 1665
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,428member
    Come one folks



    A USB only laptop for $1300? Half the keynote was about the manufacturing process. It used to be Mac users demanded a superior computing platform.



    FW provides more device power

    FW is bi-directional in reading and writing

    FW protects streams better

    FW is peer to peer

    FW is faster



    Yet we've become the same PC sheep that we once ridiculed.



    We're not asking things of Apple.



    Why can't we have a choice between Matte and Glossy?

    Why can't we have ExpressCard slots in ALL portables?

    Why can't we have docks?



    Why does Apple think they know everything?
  • Reply 49 of 1665
    my 2 year old sony hdr-hc1 HDV cam is firewire only... so his steveness is not well informed....
  • Reply 50 of 1665
    g3prog3pro Posts: 669member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Yet we've become the same PC sheep that we once ridiculed.



    Exactly.



    Why Apple would suddenly screw over everyone with devices (me included) that Apple themselves made mainstream on the Mac is beyond me. Apple deserves to be ridiculed for these kinds of decisions. There is no way I am going to buy anything from Apple until they change their mind over this idiotic decision.
  • Reply 51 of 1665
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    People keep thinking that Firewire is some one trick pony.





    Video- Yes many of the "current" camcorders are moving to USB transfer. Who here can tell me exactly how the process of transporting clips into iMovie works? Is it even standardized?



    AVCHD works fine in iMovie, FCE and FCS. The commands you use are slightly different in the FC programs. Yes, I've tried it using SD cards from my HF10 (AVCHD standard) on the latest versions all three programs.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    Case in point: try syncing a movie to your iPhone and be prepared for a long wait. The first time I did this I thought something must be wrong, but no.



    The storage chips are probably the limiting factor here.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by euler View Post


    Steve may be right that most recent HD camcorders are USB 2.0, but:

    1. Do most people have HD camcorders? I don't. I have a SD panasonic camcorder...

    2. Does this really change the price of the computer that much? Really, would this have cost them more than a couple bucks to add?

    3. Is Firewire Obsolete? I dont think so...



    It's not necessarily about the cost, but of the supposed compromises with respect to the space it takes on the edge, there's only so much space there. I think it also requires a PHY chip of some sort that needs to be accommodated. those circuit boards are packed pretty tightly.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WelshDog View Post


    eSATA does not compete with Firewire on Macs for most people. It is not hot pluggable on Macs or on the vast majority of PCs without a lot of effort. You have to restart your computer to mount an eSATA drive. Wow that is so convenient.



    This is not true. I have a Firmtek eSATA card and eSATA 4 drive cage and it is hot-pluggable under OS X. It is a supported on the card, I've done it and it works fine. I think it's a limitation of whatever adapter card you're using. The ports inside a Mac Pro don't support hot plugging.
  • Reply 52 of 1665
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LE Studios View Post


    If you can't respect Apple's decision then you can go to Windows



    Apple is already going to Windows.
  • Reply 53 of 1665
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,428member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LE Studios View Post


    Dude, you lost it time for you to go!



    #1, Apple made a good point on the decision that I support! I'm using the Mac Mini now and I have never used the Firewire since I bought it. I support the decision.



    #2, If you was truly serious with audio and or video editing then buy a MacBook Pro if you can't then finance it and if you can't do that then save your money.



    #3, If you can't respect Apple's decision then you can go to Windows!



    #4, If you have problems with any of the above then by default shut your hole!





    1. Perhaps you were just unaware of the benefits of Firewire.

    2. Correlating "serious" with spending more money is fallacious.

    3. We know this

    4. Wow. Gestapo style "if you don't like it shut up" nice.



    You guys are acting as if it's just consumers who are jaded about Apple hardware (that isn't a phone or mp3 player). The Press is getting tired of Apple "special" events only to walk out bored. When they walk in and get the Jobs Spin they know they've been had.



    These laptops are BORING
  • Reply 54 of 1665
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by g3pro View Post


    Exactly.



    Why Apple would suddenly screw over everyone with devices (me included) that Apple themselves made mainstream on the Mac is beyond me. Apple deserves to be ridiculed for these kinds of decisions. There is no way I am going to buy anything from Apple until they change their mind over this idiotic decision.



    Yes. Apple's design choices have been a bit erratic lately.
  • Reply 55 of 1665
    bwikbwik Posts: 565member
    Steve is alive???
  • Reply 56 of 1665
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by OriginalMacRat View Post


    Apple is already going to Windows.



    Who knew John C. Dvorak was posting here?!
  • Reply 57 of 1665
    iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,824member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Come one folks



    A USB only laptop for $1300? Half the keynote was about the manufacturing process. It used to be Mac users demanded a superior computing platform.



    FW provides more device power

    FW is bi-directional in reading and writing

    FW protects streams better

    FW is peer to peer

    FW is faster



    Yet we've become the same PC sheep that we once ridiculed.



    We're not asking things of Apple.



    Why can't we have a choice between Matte and Glossy?

    Why can't we have ExpressCard slots in ALL portables?

    Why can't we have docks?



    Why does Apple think they know everything?



    You might well ask!
  • Reply 58 of 1665
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by g3pro View Post


    Exactly.



    Why Apple would suddenly screw over everyone with devices (me included) that Apple themselves made mainstream on the Mac is beyond me. Apple deserves to be ridiculed for these kinds of decisions. There is no way I am going to buy anything from Apple until they change their mind over this idiotic decision.





    I did not know that Apple took away the FireWire port that used to be in your Macbook!!! They're really screwing over people, aren't they?





    Oh, you're talking about a laptop you haven't bought yet? Then why not go to



    http://store.apple.com/us/browse/hom...ls?mco=MTE3NzE



    and pick up a Macbook with FW400 that was top of the line till 2 days ago? That should last you another couple of years before it's obsolete, by which time this will be a total non-issue. Unless, of course, your definition of "screwing over" people means "Apple won't give me what *I* want! It's all about ME ME ME!"
  • Reply 59 of 1665
    dreyfus2dreyfus2 Posts: 1,072member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    From P2. You are right its not capturing in the same sense as real time video tape. But the industry is moving toward solid state storage anyway.



    I see. Well that is really just data transfer and it would even work via USB 1.1 because the speed is completely irrelevant for data integrity, with SD capturing realtime is mandatory.



    Yes the industry is moving to solid storage (without solving the backup / storage problem at reasonable cost like tapes did), just it is not there yet. OS X / iMovie / FCE only support a handful of non-tape devices and not even all manufacturers do provide QT-plugins to make the conversion painless. P2 will most definitely remain out of the reach of most mere mortals for years to come and non-pros (the majority of MacBook customers) will not want to go through error-prone multi-step conversion routines (explain to the average Joe the Plumber how to convert anamorphic AVCHD from an unsupported camera to something iMovie can edit by making manually settings in ffmpeg... I do this frequently and have to look it up once in a while). I think Apple's move was premature and there is a big difference between premature and innovative. Look at Vista to see how people react to vanishing compatibility issues.
  • Reply 60 of 1665
    My Canon HG10 transfers HD video via USB just fine.
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