The undeniable truth of the matter is that throwing money into advertising is all Microsoft CAN do to improve Vista. Anyone involved in coding and product design knows all too well that the more people and resources one heaves at any project, the more complex and labyrinthine it becomes. That is, if 200 people working on a project takes 4 years to complete, putting 400 people on it will take 6 to 8. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.
The Mythical Man-Month: Essays on Software Engineering is a book on software project management by Fred Brooks, whose central theme is that "Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later." This idea is known as Brooks's law.
Remember that kid who got so mad that he took the ball you were playing with home?
I think that as Apple gets bigger, it should be careful not to piss Ballmer off too much. They really could put a serious dent in Apple's sales by stopping developing Office for the Mac.
It has been threatened before in their relationship.
I think Apple could survive without Microsoft Office, but it could put a damper on Apple's push into the corporate world; however, with Mac sales on the rise I do not see Microsoft shutting down production of Office:mac.
I think that as Apple gets bigger, it should be careful not to piss Ballmer off too much. They really could put a serious dent in Apple's sales by stopping developing Office for the Mac.
It has been threatened before in their relationship.
It's a Catch-22 for Microsoft: As Apple threatens its Windows profits, the profits from Office:Mac grow ... and become more important. I think it may already be too late for Mr. Ballmer to take that kind of drastic retaliation.
Don't you think that the adverts perpetuate the myth that Apple users are a bunch of floppy-haired, vitriolic, smug wankers? Some of us fall into that category but not everyone.
Only if you misinterpret the ads to be a Mac user vs a PC user. It's "I'm a Mac" and "I'm a PC". Not "I'm a Mac user" and "I'm a PC user". That's why you never see a Mac or PC in the ads. The two actors are the Mac and PC.
It's a Mac that is personified as being hip and cool. Not the the user. Place a Mac next to a PC and people that are familiar with the ads will immediately recognize which one is Long and which one is Hodgman.
That's why the Microsoft ad with all the different PC users was also a failure for Microsoft. They don't get it. They probably never will. The Apple ads isn't about the users, it's about the computers itself.
The problem is that its mac vs pc. There ads dont just attack vista . They attack pc hardware also like camer support and things like this.
I feel these ads should be stopped. They are bashing all pc users (some of these ads include linux also) and is slowly giving apple this unwanted image.
AAPL and MSFT are behaving like candidates for elective office from two different
parties. They spend more time attacking their opponents than promoting their
own ideas (products). I'm getting tired of it in both arenas.
Interesting. I'm not the least bit tired of it, and can not wait to see more. I remember well when MS somehow slithered away from the lawsuit Apple filed back in the 80s for infringement of UI.
F--k Microsoft, may they go the way of Bear Stearns.
They have built an industry on stolen technology and now it comes back to haunt them.
I have never really understood it because Apple and Microsoft really do not compete directly.
1. Microsoft primary objective is to sell software. Most will say Apples primary objective is to sell hardware.
2. Apple is in the smartphone arena, Microsoft is not.
3. Microsoft is in the gaming console arena, Apple is not.
4. Apple creates a DVR type product. Microsoft does not.
5. iPod and Zune, okay that is about the only thing. Which isnt all that major. Which Apple dominates so why waste the money.
6. Any software Microsoft does create they dominate the market, OS and Office suites a good example. Doesn't matter who is better they are both dominated by MS. Yet again why waste money where you dominate.
I seriously doubt these ads do anything except waste money that can be better spent creating new products.
They are ads that appeal to the base, which both companies have already.
The Apple ads focus consumer frustration to something concrete. Often times, consumers have never even considered buying a Mac simply because they've been viewed as an unimportant small part of the computer market. The ads (and making outstanding products) have drastically changed this perception. Public perception is important, and this is something Microsoft has never really understood. They have brilliant programmers and engineers working for them, but they don't know how to market from a position of being the "underdog". MS has just always been the "default" operating system provider for cheap PCs.
"At the end of the day" (one of the most overused phrases in recent memory) it comes down to individuals choosing to spend the money on a product they want and like. The fact that each company employs thousands has nothing to do with consumer decisions.
When I first saw the bean counter ad, I have to admit, I did laugh (it was brilliantly acted), but my first thought was the disastrous Leopard release, then I remembered the disastrous iPhone 3G software, which came at the same time as the disastrous rollout of MobileMe.
Then I stopped laughing. If you're wondering what the point of the ads are, then just read the reactions to them here ... you'll get it soon enough.
I mean folk seriously believe that MS cannot afford to spend $300million on advertising and another billion on Vista? Talk about brain-washing.
Vista's problems are mostly exaggerated and those that do exist, really cannot be fixed by throwing money at it. It's biggest problem is of course XP. With the huge majority of Windows software now living in maintenance mode, there is just no good reason to upgrade from an OS that works extremely well, and they will have the same problem with Windows7 (Apple is right about the name change though. Vista has such negative connotations, MS really needs to dump it).
If it were as simple as switching money (and again I'm amazed at the lack of intelligence shown here) then why didn't Apple cut back on the advertising and make a better job of Leopard, MobileMe and the iPhone software, straight off the bat?
Take a good look at the comments round the 'net. The purpose of the ads is not to rag on Microsoft, far from it. They're designed to distract the Mac community from complaining about some of Apple's more bizarre decisions.
'No TDM on the new Macbooks? Slower processor and higher price? - Beat up on MS for a few ads, that'll get the peasants back in line ....'
Horrible to think that Apple regards their own community with such contempt, but look around here ... they understand us down to a tee.
I totally agree. I have had more issues with Leopard then I have with Vista x64. Neither are perfect but at least Vista can hold a solid network connection.
I also believe that many of these ads are just Steve Jobs being upset that when the history books are written he will always go down a the #2 person always behind Bill Gates.
Bill Gates will always be the person everyone talks about and Steve Jobs will always be an after thought.
They have built an industry on stolen technology and now it comes back to haunt them.
Uncreative losers.
I enjoy the ads, but MS isn't alone with stealing ideas and illegal business practices. Apple has plenty of those skeletons in their closet too. And of course both companies look to what best suits their needs, not the consumer, but that is good short-term business.
I'm no M$ apologist, but let me set clarify a few things...
Actually, the Windows Mobile OS (formerly Win CE) is used on a lot of smart phones. That's serious competition with iPhone.
Windows Media Center can do DVR-type stuff, I believe. It's built into Vista Professional, IIRC. Also, I'm pretty sure you can get streaming media (music and tv) via your XBox 360.
Recently a major magazine (sorry, forgot which one) said that the latest Zune is the best hard-drive based portable music player. (I won't be trading my iPods for Zunes though. )
Well, the guys writing Google software would disagree with you that M$ Live Search software dominates over Google's search.
In many cases you are talking about the difference between software driven and hardware driven.
MS creates the software that runs on smartphones, Apple actually creates the hardware. Same with media centers.
Its still the difference between a company that has a primary goal of creating software and one that is currently working on creating new hardware.
They are really different companies and have become even more so over the years.
These ads are all a Steve Jobs ego issue. If there was no link between Jobs and Gates we wouldn't even see this stuff.
Like I said it appeals to the base which both companies already have on their side. No one throws their PC out the window and runs to an Apple store based on these ads.
The ads are a funny sometimes thats about all they are is funny.
I am not really big on the whole lets try and make someone else look bad so we can look good. Apple should make ads based on what their products have to offer. Also Leopard hasn't exactly been bug free. Neither has the iPhone. Maybe the money is better spent working on those issues.
You believe that comment is false? Steve Jobs and Bill Gates in the 70's started out even. Clearly Gates is seen as the pioneer of the computer age. Clearly that eats away at Jobs.
The simple fact that Gates is listed as the wealthest American each year as to eat at him.
Apple attacks MS, Dell and HP all the time yet every year doesn't even come close to thise companies when the Fortune 500 is listed. Apple never breaks the top 100.
To run attack ads on companies that consistantly outperform you is a total joke and only appears to the base. To everyone else he just looks like a idiot.
Honestly how about something different like running a 30-60 sec spot where you actually tell someone what your product has to offer rather then putting someone else down. You know the old line if you don't think you can look good trying making someone else look bad.
The Apple ads focus consumer frustration to something concrete. Often times, consumers have never even considered buying a Mac simply because they've been viewed as an unimportant small part of the computer market. The ads (and making outstanding products) have drastically changed this perception. Public perception is important, and this is something Microsoft has never really understood. They have brilliant programmers and engineers working for them, but they don't know how to market from a position of being the "underdog". MS has just always been the "default" operating system provider for cheap PCs.
I see what you are saying and I do agree with you. However wouldn't it be more productive to run a spot highlighting how a OSX might benefit the average person looking to by a new system?
Also highlight highlight what Apple is most proud of their hardware design. I live really clsoe to two Apple Stores and I am friends with a few that work at the Mall of Georgia store. Even they stay the ads do nothing because most still think the iMac is only the monitor when the walk into the store.
That tells me that Apple simply is not getting the right message across.
It kind of reminds me of the current election. Obama spends all his time talking bad about McCain and the same on the other side and we never find out what that person actually stands for or supports.
I guess its an approach just not sure the going negative approach is the right one. The ads are funny but im not sure funny gets people in the stores.
I believe what has really helped Apple is opening more retail locations which has allowed consumers to actually get their hands on a system and play around with it.
These ads used to be funny, but they're really starting to get tired. They're really starting to make Apple look like a bully too... "stop hitting yourself... stop hitting yourself!"
Shouldn't they be selling the virtues of their OS rather than making up stuff about the competition?
And in terms of installed base, has already been overtaken several times over by Vista, an operating system that most people here would regard as a much bigger disaster. So what point are you trying to make? Or are you telling me that sales prove the OS was perfect when released?
To be honest common sense should tell folk that Apple will outsell every other launch before it, because there are alot more Apple users than any launch before it. Vista is selling at a much faster rate than XP for the same reason (and I suspect that Microsoft is shifting an awful lot of licenses to Mac users)
Crashing software, phone locking up Poor reception are big problems in my book. A phone that doesn't ... phone. Genius.
I do like the way you use the qualifier 'some' when talking about phones that don't have a real, updateable OS. I suspect that you are fully aware that Symbian is an OS and is updateable and you can write third party apps for it, but to say so would be sacrilege. I won't insult your intelligence by pointing you to the Nokia update site.
Jobs admitting it does not make it a disaster when it was launched. The fact that there are free services out there that have more users and worked right out of the gate, made it all the more annoying.
And there's not really much to dislike about the new interface; it's pretty much the same as the old one which has always been fine with me. The new functionality I don't really use much, but it doesn't get in my way, so again, no big deal.
Well, if you don't like Apple don't waste time with it. Stick to windows and be happy ever after.
Leopard outsold Tiger cause it did went very well thru their customers, that is the difference between Windows folks and Mac ones. We are eager to use New OS cause we know it always runs well and deliver what it promise.
As the iPhone, it use a portable OS X that is updated with any single iPhone firmware.
Regarding Symbian, I don't care any of it achievements. Just look at what kind of products has driven. Google Android has more chance of success than Symbian.
Mobil Me is a paid service and you are free to purchase it or not. Since you know pretty well other services that are free then go with them. I had .Mac when it was free, I had .Mac when started to be a paid service and I still keep using it now it got renamed.
There are many options but not as neat and well integrated, so I am happy with my choice.
The Apple ads focus consumer frustration to something concrete.
Totally agree on the PC frustration factor. Joe the plumber said to me "Hey, you're a computer expert - I got a virus, how do I get rid of it?" Clearly he wouldn't understand an explanation which involved downloading a copy of Ad-Aware, Norton, etc. on a different computer, boot in the safe mode, search through the Registry and so forth, so I just tell regular home users that the easiest way is to just get a Mac. Once you go Mac, you never go back I always say! Invariably they will reply "That's what I've heard."
So I think for the most part we can thank hackers for the recent popularity of Macintosh. Windows isn't all that bad as long as you know how to fix it when it breaks. For the average user that is not usually an option.
Comments
The undeniable truth of the matter is that throwing money into advertising is all Microsoft CAN do to improve Vista. Anyone involved in coding and product design knows all too well that the more people and resources one heaves at any project, the more complex and labyrinthine it becomes. That is, if 200 people working on a project takes 4 years to complete, putting 400 people on it will take 6 to 8. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.
The Mythical Man-Month: Essays on Software Engineering is a book on software project management by Fred Brooks, whose central theme is that "Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later." This idea is known as Brooks's law.
Remember that kid who got so mad that he took the ball you were playing with home?
I think that as Apple gets bigger, it should be careful not to piss Ballmer off too much. They really could put a serious dent in Apple's sales by stopping developing Office for the Mac.
It has been threatened before in their relationship.
I think Apple could survive without Microsoft Office, but it could put a damper on Apple's push into the corporate world; however, with Mac sales on the rise I do not see Microsoft shutting down production of Office:mac.
I think that as Apple gets bigger, it should be careful not to piss Ballmer off too much. They really could put a serious dent in Apple's sales by stopping developing Office for the Mac.
It has been threatened before in their relationship.
It's a Catch-22 for Microsoft: As Apple threatens its Windows profits, the profits from Office:Mac grow ... and become more important. I think it may already be too late for Mr. Ballmer to take that kind of drastic retaliation.
Don't you think that the adverts perpetuate the myth that Apple users are a bunch of floppy-haired, vitriolic, smug wankers? Some of us fall into that category but not everyone.
Only if you misinterpret the ads to be a Mac user vs a PC user. It's "I'm a Mac" and "I'm a PC". Not "I'm a Mac user" and "I'm a PC user". That's why you never see a Mac or PC in the ads. The two actors are the Mac and PC.
It's a Mac that is personified as being hip and cool. Not the the user. Place a Mac next to a PC and people that are familiar with the ads will immediately recognize which one is Long and which one is Hodgman.
That's why the Microsoft ad with all the different PC users was also a failure for Microsoft. They don't get it. They probably never will.
I feel these ads should be stopped. They are bashing all pc users (some of these ads include linux also) and is slowly giving apple this unwanted image.
I use at work, MBP, iMac, MacPro, etc.
I own two PC desktop machines at home: 1 Vista, 1 XP. What nightmares.
I now own the 2008 2.0Ghz MacBook. What a dream. The trackpad rules!
Microsoft has already stopped talking about Vista. One day soon it's going to be hard for Apple to keep that particular conversation going.
In the here and now, where most of us live, the ads are very appropriate and hit the mark.
They also can't rely on Microsoft having another Vistaesque PR nightmare.
Does Apple look like it's standing still?
AAPL and MSFT are behaving like candidates for elective office from two different
parties. They spend more time attacking their opponents than promoting their
own ideas (products). I'm getting tired of it in both arenas.
Interesting. I'm not the least bit tired of it, and can not wait to see more. I remember well when MS somehow slithered away from the lawsuit Apple filed back in the 80s for infringement of UI.
F--k Microsoft, may they go the way of Bear Stearns.
They have built an industry on stolen technology and now it comes back to haunt them.
Uncreative losers.
I have never really understood it because Apple and Microsoft really do not compete directly.
1. Microsoft primary objective is to sell software. Most will say Apples primary objective is to sell hardware.
2. Apple is in the smartphone arena, Microsoft is not.
3. Microsoft is in the gaming console arena, Apple is not.
4. Apple creates a DVR type product. Microsoft does not.
5. iPod and Zune, okay that is about the only thing. Which isnt all that major. Which Apple dominates so why waste the money.
6. Any software Microsoft does create they dominate the market, OS and Office suites a good example. Doesn't matter who is better they are both dominated by MS. Yet again why waste money where you dominate.
I seriously doubt these ads do anything except waste money that can be better spent creating new products.
They are ads that appeal to the base, which both companies have already.
The Apple ads focus consumer frustration to something concrete. Often times, consumers have never even considered buying a Mac simply because they've been viewed as an unimportant small part of the computer market. The ads (and making outstanding products) have drastically changed this perception. Public perception is important, and this is something Microsoft has never really understood. They have brilliant programmers and engineers working for them, but they don't know how to market from a position of being the "underdog". MS has just always been the "default" operating system provider for cheap PCs.
So when did "corporation" become a 4 letter word?
"At the end of the day" (one of the most overused phrases in recent memory) it comes down to individuals choosing to spend the money on a product they want and like. The fact that each company employs thousands has nothing to do with consumer decisions.
When I first saw the bean counter ad, I have to admit, I did laugh (it was brilliantly acted), but my first thought was the disastrous Leopard release, then I remembered the disastrous iPhone 3G software, which came at the same time as the disastrous rollout of MobileMe.
Then I stopped laughing. If you're wondering what the point of the ads are, then just read the reactions to them here ... you'll get it soon enough.
I mean folk seriously believe that MS cannot afford to spend $300million on advertising and another billion on Vista? Talk about brain-washing.
Vista's problems are mostly exaggerated and those that do exist, really cannot be fixed by throwing money at it. It's biggest problem is of course XP. With the huge majority of Windows software now living in maintenance mode, there is just no good reason to upgrade from an OS that works extremely well, and they will have the same problem with Windows7 (Apple is right about the name change though. Vista has such negative connotations, MS really needs to dump it).
If it were as simple as switching money (and again I'm amazed at the lack of intelligence shown here) then why didn't Apple cut back on the advertising and make a better job of Leopard, MobileMe and the iPhone software, straight off the bat?
Take a good look at the comments round the 'net. The purpose of the ads is not to rag on Microsoft, far from it. They're designed to distract the Mac community from complaining about some of Apple's more bizarre decisions.
'No TDM on the new Macbooks? Slower processor and higher price? - Beat up on MS for a few ads, that'll get the peasants back in line ....'
Horrible to think that Apple regards their own community with such contempt, but look around here ... they understand us down to a tee.
I totally agree. I have had more issues with Leopard then I have with Vista x64. Neither are perfect but at least Vista can hold a solid network connection.
I also believe that many of these ads are just Steve Jobs being upset that when the history books are written he will always go down a the #2 person always behind Bill Gates.
Bill Gates will always be the person everyone talks about and Steve Jobs will always be an after thought.
They have built an industry on stolen technology and now it comes back to haunt them.
Uncreative losers.
I enjoy the ads, but MS isn't alone with stealing ideas and illegal business practices. Apple has plenty of those skeletons in their closet too. And of course both companies look to what best suits their needs, not the consumer, but that is good short-term business.
Bill Gates will always be the person everyone talks about and Steve Jobs will always be an after thought.
Are you just begging to get smacked in the head?
"At the end of the day" (one of the most overused phrases in recent memory)...
I'm gonna have to go with "Joe the plumber".
I'm no M$ apologist, but let me set clarify a few things...
Actually, the Windows Mobile OS (formerly Win CE) is used on a lot of smart phones. That's serious competition with iPhone.
Windows Media Center can do DVR-type stuff, I believe. It's built into Vista Professional, IIRC. Also, I'm pretty sure you can get streaming media (music and tv) via your XBox 360.
Recently a major magazine (sorry, forgot which one) said that the latest Zune is the best hard-drive based portable music player. (I won't be trading my iPods for Zunes though.
Well, the guys writing Google software would disagree with you that M$ Live Search software dominates over Google's search.
In many cases you are talking about the difference between software driven and hardware driven.
MS creates the software that runs on smartphones, Apple actually creates the hardware. Same with media centers.
Its still the difference between a company that has a primary goal of creating software and one that is currently working on creating new hardware.
They are really different companies and have become even more so over the years.
These ads are all a Steve Jobs ego issue. If there was no link between Jobs and Gates we wouldn't even see this stuff.
Like I said it appeals to the base which both companies already have on their side. No one throws their PC out the window and runs to an Apple store based on these ads.
The ads are a funny sometimes thats about all they are is funny.
I am not really big on the whole lets try and make someone else look bad so we can look good. Apple should make ads based on what their products have to offer. Also Leopard hasn't exactly been bug free. Neither has the iPhone. Maybe the money is better spent working on those issues.
Are you just begging to get smacked in the head?
You believe that comment is false? Steve Jobs and Bill Gates in the 70's started out even. Clearly Gates is seen as the pioneer of the computer age. Clearly that eats away at Jobs.
The simple fact that Gates is listed as the wealthest American each year as to eat at him.
Apple attacks MS, Dell and HP all the time yet every year doesn't even come close to thise companies when the Fortune 500 is listed. Apple never breaks the top 100.
To run attack ads on companies that consistantly outperform you is a total joke and only appears to the base. To everyone else he just looks like a idiot.
Honestly how about something different like running a 30-60 sec spot where you actually tell someone what your product has to offer rather then putting someone else down. You know the old line if you don't think you can look good trying making someone else look bad.
Thats all Apple does.
The Apple ads focus consumer frustration to something concrete. Often times, consumers have never even considered buying a Mac simply because they've been viewed as an unimportant small part of the computer market. The ads (and making outstanding products) have drastically changed this perception. Public perception is important, and this is something Microsoft has never really understood. They have brilliant programmers and engineers working for them, but they don't know how to market from a position of being the "underdog". MS has just always been the "default" operating system provider for cheap PCs.
I see what you are saying and I do agree with you. However wouldn't it be more productive to run a spot highlighting how a OSX might benefit the average person looking to by a new system?
Also highlight highlight what Apple is most proud of their hardware design. I live really clsoe to two Apple Stores and I am friends with a few that work at the Mall of Georgia store. Even they stay the ads do nothing because most still think the iMac is only the monitor when the walk into the store.
That tells me that Apple simply is not getting the right message across.
It kind of reminds me of the current election. Obama spends all his time talking bad about McCain and the same on the other side and we never find out what that person actually stands for or supports.
I guess its an approach just not sure the going negative approach is the right one. The ads are funny but im not sure funny gets people in the stores.
I believe what has really helped Apple is opening more retail locations which has allowed consumers to actually get their hands on a system and play around with it.
Shouldn't they be selling the virtues of their OS rather than making up stuff about the competition?
And in terms of installed base, has already been overtaken several times over by Vista, an operating system that most people here would regard as a much bigger disaster. So what point are you trying to make? Or are you telling me that sales prove the OS was perfect when released?
To be honest common sense should tell folk that Apple will outsell every other launch before it, because there are alot more Apple users than any launch before it. Vista is selling at a much faster rate than XP for the same reason (and I suspect that Microsoft is shifting an awful lot of licenses to Mac users)
Crashing software, phone locking up Poor reception are big problems in my book. A phone that doesn't ... phone. Genius.
I do like the way you use the qualifier 'some' when talking about phones that don't have a real, updateable OS. I suspect that you are fully aware that Symbian is an OS and is updateable and you can write third party apps for it, but to say so would be sacrilege. I won't insult your intelligence by pointing you to the Nokia update site.
Jobs admitting it does not make it a disaster when it was launched. The fact that there are free services out there that have more users and worked right out of the gate, made it all the more annoying.
And there's not really much to dislike about the new interface; it's pretty much the same as the old one which has always been fine with me. The new functionality I don't really use much, but it doesn't get in my way, so again, no big deal.
Well, if you don't like Apple don't waste time with it. Stick to windows and be happy ever after.
Leopard outsold Tiger cause it did went very well thru their customers, that is the difference between Windows folks and Mac ones. We are eager to use New OS cause we know it always runs well and deliver what it promise.
As the iPhone, it use a portable OS X that is updated with any single iPhone firmware.
Regarding Symbian, I don't care any of it achievements. Just look at what kind of products has driven. Google Android has more chance of success than Symbian.
Mobil Me is a paid service and you are free to purchase it or not. Since you know pretty well other services that are free then go with them. I had .Mac when it was free, I had .Mac when started to be a paid service and I still keep using it now it got renamed.
There are many options but not as neat and well integrated, so I am happy with my choice.
The Apple ads focus consumer frustration to something concrete.
Totally agree on the PC frustration factor. Joe the plumber said to me "Hey, you're a computer expert - I got a virus, how do I get rid of it?" Clearly he wouldn't understand an explanation which involved downloading a copy of Ad-Aware, Norton, etc. on a different computer, boot in the safe mode, search through the Registry and so forth, so I just tell regular home users that the easiest way is to just get a Mac. Once you go Mac, you never go back I always say! Invariably they will reply "That's what I've heard."
So I think for the most part we can thank hackers for the recent popularity of Macintosh. Windows isn't all that bad as long as you know how to fix it when it breaks. For the average user that is not usually an option.