Good summation . I do about 7 or 8 hours a day in front of a Mac and the 30" ACD plus 23" ADC are wonderful, just wish I could afford the second 30". My point is, if you spend that much time and are in graphics arts you'd be better with a Mac Pro not a laptop. Then get an old MacBook for vacations. If anyone spends 8 or 9 hours in front of it on vacation perhaps not going on vacation would be a good idea to save money?
p.s. Maybe it wouldn't take 9 hours a day with a Mac Pro either
...but I felt like I got hosed by the all-too-soon pink hue that took over my 23" ACD (unfortunately didn't check forums to discover there was an issue until after the Warranty was up (and I couldn't afford AppleCare when I paid the $1995 for it.) I worried that it would happen with the high-dollar 30", and considering the cost, I went looking for a true graphics monitor and found the EIZO line. I hate the 1 video-in connection of the ACDs, and the too-short cables of the ACD power-brick.
Now I work in front of 3 LCDs (the EIZO, the 23" ADC, and a 20" Dell UltraSharp Wide all running from the MacPro -- yeah, I get phosphor tan lines. The MBP gets used on client visits, vacations, running disc maintenance on the other Macs, or watching missed episodes of shows full-screen when positioned in front of my elliptical.
Netbooks are a fad that appeal only to the geeky end of the computer buying public. It will never achieve mass distribution because it as an in-betweener: Too big to carry around in your pocket and too small to do heavy computing work. It's a 'cute', technically fascinating product but almost totally useless for most people. Geeks will buy it because they like looking at, caressing, fiddling with, and showing off new and unique gadgets. The rest of us will notice that netbooks sacrifice both usability and portability and will move on and buy either a smart phone/ipod touch or a laptop.
...but I felt like I got hosed by the all-too-soon pink hue that took over my 23" ACD (unfortunately didn't check forums to discover there was an issue until after the Warranty was up (and I couldn't afford AppleCare when I paid the $1995 for it.) I worried that it would happen with the high-dollar 30", and considering the cost, I went looking for a true graphics monitor and found the EIZO line. I hate the 1 video-in connection of the ACDs, and the too-short cables of the ACD power-brick.
Now I work in front of 3 LCDs (the EIZO, the 23" ADC, and a 20" Dell UltraSharp Wide all running from the MacPro -- yeah, I get phosphor tan lines. The MBP gets used on client visits, vacations, running disc maintenance on the other Macs, or watching missed episodes of shows full-screen when positioned in front of my elliptical.
I may have been lucky, my original 23" developed a line within warranty and was replaced within 36 hours by Apple. It has been flawless ever since. Although next to the 30" it is 15% of the brightness. I have to wind the 30" down to match lol. I am just ticked off I cannot have them each on their own graphics card. I had to give up on one and share the GT8800 between them for FCPro else the preview doesn't show on second monitor. Trolling all Apple support blogs I am not alone in this. I welcome any input here
Netbooks are a fad that appeal only to the geeky end of the computer buying public. It will never achieve mass distribution because it as an in-betweener: Too big to carry around in your pocket and too small to do heavy computing work. It's a 'cute', technically fascinating product but almost totally useless for most people. Geeks will buy it because they like looking at, caressing, fiddling with, and showing off new and unique gadgets. The rest of us will notice that netbooks sacrifice both usability and portability and will move on and buy either a smart phone/ipod touch or a laptop.
I think Steve is on the same page. iPhone on the go does 80% of what I need on the go too. I can guess they will get better and cover the last 20% over the next few years, hopefully software updates mainly too but iPhone 3 must be in the works.
2 of the same topics posted on front page, one after another? Who's running this show Mccain/Palin? Sounds like one side don't have any idea what the other one is doing.
Someone should tell Jobs, that the iphone is sold in about 20x more markets than blackberries also.
Please Blackberries are sold in way more countries than iphone.
Yep, we tried a Windows XP and a Mac low end laptop on a vacation with a slow internet connection recently. The updates, virus checking and so on made the PC unusable. On the Mac we could do all we needed, read mail, reply and check web sites we needed to etc. and be ready to go hiking by the time the PC had restarted after its updates and was still loading mail. The PC was more powerful than the old G4 iBook too. We gave up on the XP machine after a few days.
Maybe you should learn a little about XP then. It isn't that hard to have a stable XP installation, and you don't need all these tools that Mac people claim you need, I have no more issues from my XP machine that I would from any my Mac's
2 of the same topics posted on front page, one after another? Who's running this show Mccain/Palin? Sounds like one side don't have any idea what the other one is doing.
Someone should tell Jobs, that the iphone is sold in about 20x more markets than blackberries also.
Well yea, but it's easier to change the language and keyboard setup when it's in the screen... Or am I the only one who got that... It's all in the SOFTWARE! But that's what Steve has been saying for years.
Maybe you should learn a little about XP then. It isn't that hard to have a stable XP installation, and you don't need all these tools that Mac people claim you need, I have no more issues from my XP machine that I would from any my Mac's
It's most likely the AV software. Some are really good about giving you freedom then there's symactec who likes to be like a big brother over everything. XP is stable but far from OS X. There's just soo much more than has to run in the background to use it the same way you use a Mac so it will inevitably be slower even with better specs.
The next Intel Atom release model 330 will probably bring Apple around to the netbooks. That's a dual core 32bit 1.6-2.0ghz cpu with a 533fsb. No it's no Centrino but at 1/4 the speed it uses 1/10th the power. Then you also have the DC 2.0 PPC with x86 instruction set company they bought... That too would easily fit into a netbook class.
Or you can create a netbook that docks the iPhone into the trackpad area. This then uses the iPhone as the computer and the screen as a trackpad. Sell it as a $399 option and those 10million iphone users can have a Netbook with internet EVERYWHERE and still keep things in sync. That's how you Apple a market.
XP is indeed stable. It can run for days with no problem. It's also old and clunky. And you can't run it without anti-virus, anti-spyware, and various maintenance apps from Symantec and so forth. If you do, within six months to a year the computer will be filled with junk.
If your time costs money, XP will cost you money. It will also cost you because of the utilities you need to add to it (I call it the Norton tax). The overall experience is just less pleasant, and the built-in software is much poorer. Plus you can't get iWork for a PC. Only Office, and it costs more too.
I agree about the glossy screens, but the PC world is all glossy these days as well. I think this is an industry-wide trend. I hope Apple reconsiders, at least for it's pro stuff, but I'm not expecting that to happen soon.
That is not entirely correct. True you need an antivirus and FireWall of some sort. But you can start getting these things as pretty decent OpenSource stuff to. What strikes me though is that if you dont have the 80$ bucks or so for Kaspersky - well you would not be able to afford a Mac either.
Office for Home and Students has a RRP of 149$. Ok it is dearer then iWork - but I bet you some money taht quite some people still have Office on their Mac. Force of habit...
Alternatively you could actually get an eee PC with Linux and OpenOffice too...even cheaper
It's most likely the AV software. Some are really good about giving you freedom then there's symactec who likes to be like a big brother over everything. XP is stable but far from OS X. There's just soo much more than has to run in the background to use it the same way you use a Mac so it will inevitably be slower even with better specs.
You can't blame XP because Symantec can't write software, and I'm not sure what you mean about "you have to run so much more in the background", can you name the software you have to run?
Demand for a netbook is split between those who want a dirt-cheap laptop and those who are drawn to the mobility. Apple's going to respond to those who want more mobility just as they did with the Air, even though sub-notebooks weren't a huge slice of the market either.
A 10" product in the $900 range seems inevitable. The effective price-hike on the macbook seems to have made the way clear.
Also: the current state of the tablet market is more a reflection of the products on offer, rather than the merits of the form factor. Apple's already made a good tablet. The biggest technical barrier to growing it to 10" is just software: they'd need to make touch versions of alot more software.
And what market segment would this be aimed at? I just can't see it. I mean, if you can't stick it in your pocket, why not get an Air or a MacBook?
"That would be 'What is the on-the-go everyday user market', Alex..."
As for the size, I have no problem fitting a standard steno pad into many of the pockets on my clothing. Back pockets of jeans, inside pockets of jackets, outside pockets of blazers...
And there are a good number of folks these days who carry some type of bag around with them wherever they go, a steno pad sized 10" Apple netbook/tablet would slide into these just fine.
I for one would welcome a device that lets me carry around my email accounts, the internet & assorted iLife/iWork projects in a package no larger than a standard steno pad (only thicker), yet allow me to connect to a larger screen & full size input devices while at home.
For all those who start going on about how that is the (eventual) role of the iPhone, NO!
I don't want to squint at a tiny screen, I don't want to try and interact with data on a tiny interface. That may be fine for the younger folks here, but some of us have old eyes, and need bigger screens to see what we are doing!
And for those that respond 'just buy an Air or a MacBook", too large...
I also think, no matter what he says, Jobs HAS to be looking into the netbook market. I would bet it burns his ass to see various netbooks on the web that are hacked to run OS X, especially the new Dell.
The Trifecta of Apple goodness, as defined by MacRonin...?!?
I also seems a little skewed in that a new iPhone was released in June yet the Blackberry Storm is not being released until next month.
Right wasn't it supposed to be the Bold to come and knock off the iPhone but now we should wait for the Storm. Funny how when the iPhone came out people said it would fail because of its touchscreen and companies like RIM but its taken Apple's entry into the game from them to release the Storm and what do you know they are also releasing their own app store, I wonder where they got that idea from.
Maybe you should learn a little about XP then. It isn't that hard to have a stable XP installation, and you don't need all these tools that Mac people claim you need, I have no more issues from my XP machine that I would from any my Mac's
OH I do! In spades. I haven't done anything I wouldn't have on a Mac but I swear I have spent so much more time trying to fix the damn thing it isn't funny. I run XP in VMWare on my iMac now and that is problem free - but then I only run one single app on it, and a web server. Oh, and antivirus. I don't know what happened to my PC laptop - I de-fragged it, tried to clean it out, ran anti-spyware software, anti virus software and various specialized tools when it once got infected. I finally had to buy AdAware to remove it. Now it works but I save often as it occasionally goes to blue screen for no known reason. Oh, and it takes an eon to start up! So when I say it now works it is not really true because I hardly ever use it anymore.
Don't be so sure what Steve is saying is what the future holds. After all, he is saying it publicly. I personally wouldn't be surprised if Steve was not heavily downplaying the Apple TV thing by consistently calling it a hobby. Same as he did with iTunes and the music industry. As record has it, he told the large music labels that were resistant to trying his plan "Apple is so small..... what could it hurt to try it?" The living room is, and has been, the biggest historical influence on modern culture. The computer is the more recent candidate for our time and affection and the two shall meet! A hobby is something you tinker with, with a bigger dream in mind. I think he is trying to buy time under the radar with this "hobby" nonsense. I hope they get the time they need to get it right.
No they are not sold in even half as many countries as iphones
Have anything to back that up, Blackberries which have been on the market for many years before the iPhone is sold in less markets than the iPhone, right.
Maybe you should learn a little about XP then. It isn't that hard to have a stable XP installation, and you don't need all these tools that Mac people claim you need, I have no more issues from my XP machine that I would from any my Mac's
Same experience here. Mac and Windows both runs great for me. The only crashes I had recently is Firefox on Windows and iPhoto on my Mac.
Comments
Good summation . I do about 7 or 8 hours a day in front of a Mac and the 30" ACD plus 23" ADC are wonderful, just wish I could afford the second 30". My point is, if you spend that much time and are in graphics arts you'd be better with a Mac Pro not a laptop. Then get an old MacBook for vacations. If anyone spends 8 or 9 hours in front of it on vacation perhaps not going on vacation would be a good idea to save money?
p.s. Maybe it wouldn't take 9 hours a day with a Mac Pro either
...but I felt like I got hosed by the all-too-soon pink hue that took over my 23" ACD (unfortunately didn't check forums to discover there was an issue until after the Warranty was up (and I couldn't afford AppleCare when I paid the $1995 for it.) I worried that it would happen with the high-dollar 30", and considering the cost, I went looking for a true graphics monitor and found the EIZO line. I hate the 1 video-in connection of the ACDs, and the too-short cables of the ACD power-brick.
Now I work in front of 3 LCDs (the EIZO, the 23" ADC, and a 20" Dell UltraSharp Wide all running from the MacPro -- yeah, I get phosphor tan lines. The MBP gets used on client visits, vacations, running disc maintenance on the other Macs, or watching missed episodes of shows full-screen when positioned in front of my elliptical.
...but I felt like I got hosed by the all-too-soon pink hue that took over my 23" ACD (unfortunately didn't check forums to discover there was an issue until after the Warranty was up (and I couldn't afford AppleCare when I paid the $1995 for it.) I worried that it would happen with the high-dollar 30", and considering the cost, I went looking for a true graphics monitor and found the EIZO line. I hate the 1 video-in connection of the ACDs, and the too-short cables of the ACD power-brick.
Now I work in front of 3 LCDs (the EIZO, the 23" ADC, and a 20" Dell UltraSharp Wide all running from the MacPro -- yeah, I get phosphor tan lines. The MBP gets used on client visits, vacations, running disc maintenance on the other Macs, or watching missed episodes of shows full-screen when positioned in front of my elliptical.
I may have been lucky, my original 23" developed a line within warranty and was replaced within 36 hours by Apple. It has been flawless ever since. Although next to the 30" it is 15% of the brightness. I have to wind the 30" down to match lol. I am just ticked off I cannot have them each on their own graphics card. I had to give up on one and share the GT8800 between them for FCPro else the preview doesn't show on second monitor. Trolling all Apple support blogs I am not alone in this. I welcome any input here
Netbooks are a fad that appeal only to the geeky end of the computer buying public. It will never achieve mass distribution because it as an in-betweener: Too big to carry around in your pocket and too small to do heavy computing work. It's a 'cute', technically fascinating product but almost totally useless for most people. Geeks will buy it because they like looking at, caressing, fiddling with, and showing off new and unique gadgets. The rest of us will notice that netbooks sacrifice both usability and portability and will move on and buy either a smart phone/ipod touch or a laptop.
I think Steve is on the same page. iPhone on the go does 80% of what I need on the go too. I can guess they will get better and cover the last 20% over the next few years, hopefully software updates mainly too but iPhone 3 must be in the works.
2 of the same topics posted on front page, one after another? Who's running this show Mccain/Palin? Sounds like one side don't have any idea what the other one is doing.
Someone should tell Jobs, that the iphone is sold in about 20x more markets than blackberries also.
Please Blackberries are sold in way more countries than iphone.
Please Blackberries are sold in way more countries than iphone.
I also seems a little skewed in that a new iPhone was released in June yet the Blackberry Storm is not being released until next month.
Yep, we tried a Windows XP and a Mac low end laptop on a vacation with a slow internet connection recently. The updates, virus checking and so on made the PC unusable. On the Mac we could do all we needed, read mail, reply and check web sites we needed to etc. and be ready to go hiking by the time the PC had restarted after its updates and was still loading mail. The PC was more powerful than the old G4 iBook too. We gave up on the XP machine after a few days.
Maybe you should learn a little about XP then. It isn't that hard to have a stable XP installation, and you don't need all these tools that Mac people claim you need, I have no more issues from my XP machine that I would from any my Mac's
2 of the same topics posted on front page, one after another? Who's running this show Mccain/Palin? Sounds like one side don't have any idea what the other one is doing.
Someone should tell Jobs, that the iphone is sold in about 20x more markets than blackberries also.
Well yea, but it's easier to change the language and keyboard setup when it's in the screen... Or am I the only one who got that... It's all in the SOFTWARE! But that's what Steve has been saying for years.
Maybe you should learn a little about XP then. It isn't that hard to have a stable XP installation, and you don't need all these tools that Mac people claim you need, I have no more issues from my XP machine that I would from any my Mac's
It's most likely the AV software. Some are really good about giving you freedom then there's symactec who likes to be like a big brother over everything. XP is stable but far from OS X. There's just soo much more than has to run in the background to use it the same way you use a Mac so it will inevitably be slower even with better specs.
Or you can create a netbook that docks the iPhone into the trackpad area. This then uses the iPhone as the computer and the screen as a trackpad. Sell it as a $399 option and those 10million iphone users can have a Netbook with internet EVERYWHERE and still keep things in sync. That's how you Apple a market.
XP is indeed stable. It can run for days with no problem. It's also old and clunky. And you can't run it without anti-virus, anti-spyware, and various maintenance apps from Symantec and so forth. If you do, within six months to a year the computer will be filled with junk.
If your time costs money, XP will cost you money. It will also cost you because of the utilities you need to add to it (I call it the Norton tax). The overall experience is just less pleasant, and the built-in software is much poorer. Plus you can't get iWork for a PC. Only Office, and it costs more too.
I agree about the glossy screens, but the PC world is all glossy these days as well. I think this is an industry-wide trend. I hope Apple reconsiders, at least for it's pro stuff, but I'm not expecting that to happen soon.
That is not entirely correct. True you need an antivirus and FireWall of some sort. But you can start getting these things as pretty decent OpenSource stuff to. What strikes me though is that if you dont have the 80$ bucks or so for Kaspersky - well you would not be able to afford a Mac either.
Office for Home and Students has a RRP of 149$. Ok it is dearer then iWork - but I bet you some money taht quite some people still have Office on their Mac. Force of habit...
Alternatively you could actually get an eee PC with Linux and OpenOffice too...even cheaper
It's most likely the AV software. Some are really good about giving you freedom then there's symactec who likes to be like a big brother over everything. XP is stable but far from OS X. There's just soo much more than has to run in the background to use it the same way you use a Mac so it will inevitably be slower even with better specs.
You can't blame XP because Symantec can't write software, and I'm not sure what you mean about "you have to run so much more in the background", can you name the software you have to run?
A 10" product in the $900 range seems inevitable. The effective price-hike on the macbook seems to have made the way clear.
Also: the current state of the tablet market is more a reflection of the products on offer, rather than the merits of the form factor. Apple's already made a good tablet. The biggest technical barrier to growing it to 10" is just software: they'd need to make touch versions of alot more software.
And what market segment would this be aimed at? I just can't see it. I mean, if you can't stick it in your pocket, why not get an Air or a MacBook?
"That would be 'What is the on-the-go everyday user market', Alex..."
As for the size, I have no problem fitting a standard steno pad into many of the pockets on my clothing. Back pockets of jeans, inside pockets of jackets, outside pockets of blazers...
And there are a good number of folks these days who carry some type of bag around with them wherever they go, a steno pad sized 10" Apple netbook/tablet would slide into these just fine.
I for one would welcome a device that lets me carry around my email accounts, the internet & assorted iLife/iWork projects in a package no larger than a standard steno pad (only thicker), yet allow me to connect to a larger screen & full size input devices while at home.
For all those who start going on about how that is the (eventual) role of the iPhone, NO!
I don't want to squint at a tiny screen, I don't want to try and interact with data on a tiny interface. That may be fine for the younger folks here, but some of us have old eyes, and need bigger screens to see what we are doing!
And for those that respond 'just buy an Air or a MacBook", too large...
I also think, no matter what he says, Jobs HAS to be looking into the netbook market. I would bet it burns his ass to see various netbooks on the web that are hacked to run OS X, especially the new Dell.
The Trifecta of Apple goodness, as defined by MacRonin...?!?
iPhone nano
MacBook/Air uni-body derived 10" convertible laptop/tablet
Mac mini (nano?) turned home server/media center
Add a 60" flat-panel HDTV monitor & a surround sound system, good to go!
I also seems a little skewed in that a new iPhone was released in June yet the Blackberry Storm is not being released until next month.
Right wasn't it supposed to be the Bold to come and knock off the iPhone but now we should wait for the Storm. Funny how when the iPhone came out people said it would fail because of its touchscreen and companies like RIM but its taken Apple's entry into the game from them to release the Storm and what do you know they are also releasing their own app store, I wonder where they got that idea from.
Maybe you should learn a little about XP then. It isn't that hard to have a stable XP installation, and you don't need all these tools that Mac people claim you need, I have no more issues from my XP machine that I would from any my Mac's
OH I do! In spades. I haven't done anything I wouldn't have on a Mac but I swear I have spent so much more time trying to fix the damn thing it isn't funny. I run XP in VMWare on my iMac now and that is problem free - but then I only run one single app on it, and a web server. Oh, and antivirus. I don't know what happened to my PC laptop - I de-fragged it, tried to clean it out, ran anti-spyware software, anti virus software and various specialized tools when it once got infected. I finally had to buy AdAware to remove it. Now it works but I save often as it occasionally goes to blue screen for no known reason. Oh, and it takes an eon to start up! So when I say it now works it is not really true because I hardly ever use it anymore.
More Kool Aid please..... make mine a double
Please Blackberries are sold in way more countries than iphone.
No they are not sold in even half as many countries as iphones
No they are not sold in even half as many countries as iphones
Have anything to back that up, Blackberries which have been on the market for many years before the iPhone is sold in less markets than the iPhone, right.
Maybe you should learn a little about XP then. It isn't that hard to have a stable XP installation, and you don't need all these tools that Mac people claim you need, I have no more issues from my XP machine that I would from any my Mac's
Same experience here. Mac and Windows both runs great for me. The only crashes I had recently is Firefox on Windows and iPhoto on my Mac.