For instance, in the iPhone forum, there are more than few people who's entire oeuvre consists of repeated reminders that the iPhone is actually a terrible, crippled piece of shit that only sells in the numbers it does because Apple sheeple are easily swayed by shiny things.
Until they buy one and become so obsessed with it they use it to shove it up their (@#*
Even though, in this instance, Mel is so [I]completely and egregiously wrong it should disqualify him from being allowed the company of his fellow men.
I appreciate the assumption on your part that I have "fellow men".
My mileage here, both in what I've seen and in what I've directly experienced, definitely varies from that.
Often you can have a thoughtful criticism, and still be attacked for it. When I first started posting here, I was often called a troll. I still get dismissed occasionally for being 'anti-Apple' or some amusing variation thereof on occasion. And I think I've been treated mildly compared to some.
There is definitely some 'groupthink' at AI, but you can fight your way through it by having a tough-enough skin. Doesn't mean that it still doesn't suck, tho'.
...
He's talking about the mods, those terrible people such as myself, who remove posts at the slightest whim, and threaten people every time we get criticized, or the site is criticized.
He's talking about the mods, those terrible people such as myself, who remove posts at the slightest whim, and threaten people every time we get criticized, or the site is criticized.
Oh, wait, that isn't done here!
Nope, that would be MacRumors, where even the word "hell" will get you and your family banned for life.
He's talking about the mods, those terrible people such as myself, who remove posts at the slightest whim, and threaten people every time we get criticized, or the site is criticized.
Oh, wait, that isn't done here!
There is a middle ground between being a Nazi, and doing too little.
In any case, I worry less about the mods and more about the posters when it comes to AI. But mods can certainly affect the posters to an extent.
Or completely, if one wants to go to the HoFo 'lockdown' model, where a sneeze gets you banned. I don't dig that.
Funny thing is, posters at HoFo defend that model to the death, and call you a troll for not liking it.
I think some of the hostility and dismissiveness comes from the perceptions/attitudes of the posters who respond that way. Too many of them tend to mistake honest critiques for attacks or trolling.
That said, there are a few ppl who are out to troll. But I do wish ppl were better about distinguishing between the trolls and the honest critics.
As far as trolling goes, I've found that there are a bunch of people who are trolling. Some of them can get converted by the simple fact of accusing them of it. It's amazing that many trolls don't seem to understand that they are recognized as such, and when they are, they become embarrassed, and attempt to show they aren't. I've seen it happen more than once, which is why I have no problem outing what I think to be one.
Trolls usually have a simple format. Say something that will get people angry. Hint (or say outright) that people who like, or don't like whatever it is, are fanboys. Say nothing in depth. Refuse to directly answer replies that have logical arguments or facts. Repeat with little variance the original statement(s).
When I see that happen, as I did recently, I always assume it's trolling.
My philosophy on Apple over the past few years is this:
Whether Jobs is brilliant, or just lucky, he's made mostly very good decisions. Most other CEO's from other companies in the industry, brilliant or not, haven't.
Apple has mostly made higher quality products, while most competitors haven't.
Apple has mostly made products that people want, where most competitors haven't.
Apple has mostly seen where things are going, where most competitors haven't.
Apple has managed their finances better than most of their competitors.
Apple's marketing has been better than most of the marketing of their competitors.
Apple has screwed up, but less than most of their competitors.
That covers most of it.
There's plenty to like there in Apple, but there's also enough they've done to disagree with and grumble about.
I do all of that.
As Apple is successful, mostly I find things to agree with. But I also find things to disagree with.
At all times I try to remember that Apple is a company that must think about the company first, and that whatever they do, its not because they are some mythical benevolent godfather, but a company that must care about existing, growing, and being profitable, and that everything else follows from that.
That means that there will always be some group that is not happy with something they may have done, but whose desires simply doesn't fall into the company's plans.
It's always interesting to see that some newbie who doesn't know the senior members of the site, is willing to label us as fanboys based on a single discussion over a single issue.
As far as trolling goes, I've found that there are a bunch of people who are trolling. Some of them can get converted by the simple fact of accusing them of it. It's amazing that many trolls don't seem to understand that they are recognized as such, and when they are, they become embarrassed, and attempt to show they aren't. I've seen it happen more than once, which is why I have no problem outing what I think to be one.
As I've said, such ppl exist. But many ppl get accused of trolling who aren't trolls at all.
In fact, I seem to remember butting heads with you quite strongly at our first meeting here. No doubt you thought me a troll then. But I ended up not being one. Food for thought, eh?
There is a middle ground between being a Nazi, and doing too little.
In any case, I worry less about the mods and more about the posters when it comes to AI. But mods can certainly affect the posters to an extent.
Or completely, if one wants to go to the HoFo 'lockdown' model, where a sneeze gets you banned. I don't dig that.
Funny thing is, posters at HoFo defend that model to the death, and call you a troll for not liking it.
...
It's a very difficult decision to make.
Over the years, I've been called all sorts of things, including any number of four letter words, or others with the same concept. Never has a mod, to my knowledge, done anything about it, though some people have mailed me privately to ask if they should complain. I've only done so way back, when the statements were so egregious that I had to say something, and that was only to ask to have the person in question watched for a while.
People are funny though. I've responded to some rather stupid and hostile postings, only to have people comment on my response, without making comments on the posts that began it.
I once responded to an insulting post on ARs, and Caesar threatened to ban me for a few days. Seven people came on line to defend my response, and to blame the other poster, but Caesar never acknowledged their defense.
It's all very strange.
The question is just how far it can be allowed to go.
It's easy if someone just blasts out some unacceptable statements about someone, but more often, the tempers rise slowly. Nothing is understood to be amiss until, sometimes, pages later. How does one work with that?
I'd rather see it peter out by itself. As I've been so involved with these things myself here, I don't see it as being a big problem. A warning to calm down seems to be enough most of the time.
As I've said, such ppl exist. But many ppl get accused of trolling who aren't trolls at all.
In fact, I seem to remember butting heads with you quite strongly at our first meeting here. No doubt you thought me a troll then. But I ended up not being one. Food for thought, eh?
...
Butting heads is fine. It's all very boring if we agree on everything. But I never thought you were a troll.
You can usually tell if I do. Firstoff, I will usually ask if the person is trolling, and try to get some more coherent statements out of him. If that doesn't work, then normally, the person IS a troll.
But, as I've said, sometimes you can even get a troll to move away from that.
Butting heads is fine. It's all very boring if we agree on everything. But I never thought you were a troll.
You gave me a very strong impression otherwise.
In any case, notice something? We seem to be talking a great deal of troll witch-hunt here. Also the AI way.
Whether you realize or not Mel, you are of AI on this one. Not sure it's quite so healthy for the community to be worrying so very much about a rather small group of ppl. The obvious trolls always give themselves away, and they don't matter much anyway. "We have met the enemy, and they is dumb."
A more serious issue is AIers fighting amongst themselves over trivialities and banalities, ad nauseum.
Over the years, I've been called all sorts of things, including any number of four letter words, or others with the same concept. Never has a mod, to my knowledge, done anything about it, though some people have mailed me privately to ask if they should complain. I've only done so way back, when the statements were so egregious that I had to say something, and that was only to ask to have the person in question watched for a while.
People are funny though. I've responded to some rather stupid and hostile postings, only to have people comment on my response, without making comments on the posts that began it.
I once responded to an insulting post on ARs, and Caesar threatened to ban me for a few days. Seven people came on line to defend my response, and to blame the other poster, but Caesar never acknowledged their defense.
It's all very strange.
The question is just how far it can be allowed to go.
It's easy if someone just blasts out some unacceptable statements about someone, but more often, the tempers rise slowly. Nothing is understood to be amiss until, sometimes, pages later. How does one work with that?
I'd rather see it peter out by itself. As I've been so involved with these things myself here, I don't see it as being a big problem. A warning to calm down seems to be enough most of the time.
I hear ya. It IS hard. I used to be a mod on the MacNN forums.
I would just say, take it up a notch, be a little bit more activist in intervening in situations before they get nasty, do more to keep things on track. I did so when I was a mod, and it usually turned out for the better.
The one or two times when a bad little boy poster would give me unfair grief over it, he was gang-tackled by the community, essentially. Kind of gratifying to see actually.
Anyways, it's that time again... gotta go. Take care man.
As far as trolling goes, I've found that there are a bunch of people who are trolling. Some of them can get converted by the simple fact of accusing them of it. It's amazing that many trolls don't seem to understand that they are recognized as such, and when they are, they become embarrassed, and attempt to show they aren't. I've seen it happen more than once, which is why I have no problem outing what I think to be one.
Trolls usually have a simple format. Say something that will get people angry. Hint (or say outright) that people who like, or don't like whatever it is, are fanboys. Say nothing in depth. Refuse to directly answer replies that have logical arguments or facts. Repeat with little variance the original statement(s).
When I see that happen, as I did recently, I always assume it's trolling.
My philosophy on Apple over the past few years is this:
Whether Jobs is brilliant, or just lucky, he's made mostly very good decisions. Most other CEO's from other companies in the industry, brilliant or not, haven't.
Apple has mostly made higher quality products, while most competitors haven't.
Apple has mostly made products that people want, where most competitors haven't.
Apple has mostly seen where things are going, where most competitors haven't.
Apple has managed their finances better than most of their competitors.
Apple's marketing has been better than most of the marketing of their competitors.
Apple has screwed up, but less than most of their competitors.
That covers most of it.
There's plenty to like there in Apple, but there's also enough they've done to disagree with and grumble about.
I do all of that.
As Apple is successful, mostly I find things to agree with. But I also find things to disagree with.
At all times I try to remember that Apple is a company that must think about the company first, and that whatever they do, its not because they are some mythical benevolent godfather, but a company that must care about existing, growing, and being profitable, and that everything else follows from that.
That means that there will always be some group that is not happy with something they may have done, but whose desires simply doesn't fall into the company's plans.
It's always interesting to see that some newbie who doesn't know the senior members of the site, is willing to label us as fanboys based on a single discussion over a single issue.
I have said the exact same thing as you on other forums and I was banned permanently by a bunch of mac haters.
I haven't said anything to rile people up. All I have posted is backed up by FACTS from reputable websites reporting on the news. I also tried to keep the emotion out of it... no such luck. I was called koolaid drinker, steve job's pet, apple fanboi, steve jobs himself, etc, in short I was flamed to a crisp.
People who choose to believe that windows vista is not a pile of crap will continue to do so.
People who do not understand that mac software is not about the looks, it about doing things more efficiently, will continue to believe the former.
People who thing macs are overpriced will not budge, even though I have repeatedly demonstrated that the much larger productivity that comes from using a mac will pay itself in no time.
People just don't understand that substituting their computers will macs, cable tv with apple tv, clunky backup systems with time machine, and phones with the iphone, will improve their quality of life 10-fold by doing more with less time so you can spend more time with family and friends, you know stuff that matters, instead of installing 100 third party software to do what a mac does out of the box or cleaning the latest trojan attack.
These are sad times. To me it is like during medieval times when the vast majority of Europe still believed that the word of god was all there was. Science existed but it was confined to a tiny minority who had brilliant and corageous minds. Time will come when humanity will see the light and everybody will convert from darkness (Windows) to the light (Macs).
In addition, there's an even more specific segment that seems to be really popular: touchscreen smartphones. And with the G1 not being much to talk about while the BlackBerry Storm continues to take on a lot of bad press, Apple is in a terribly good position.
It is not just touchscreen. Palm Treo line has touch screens on most of their models for years, and many Pocket PC phones have touch screen as well. It is not even about features - people ARE complaining about missing ones. It is design of software and hardware, and their integration... plus, of course, the image factor and brand loyalty.
Apple is in the sweet spot right now. If they make, say, bottle opener, I bet huge majority of Mac/iPod/iPhone users will get one... just because it is Apple. Other brands simply don't command such loyalty, and that is - from my point of view - the biggest achievement Jobs managed to pull out.
Apple is in the sweet spot right now. If they make, say, bottle opener, I bet huge majority of Mac/iPod/iPhone users will get one... just because it is Apple. Other brands simply don't command such loyalty, and that is - from my point of view - the biggest achievement Jobs managed to pull out.
The interesting thing is that many people who don't own an Apple product will buy it.
It is not just touchscreen. Palm Treo line has touch screens on most of their models for years, and many Pocket PC phones have touch screen as well. It is not even about features - people ARE complaining about missing ones. It is design of software and hardware, and their integration... plus, of course, the image factor and brand loyalty.
Apple is in the sweet spot right now. If they make, say, bottle opener, I bet huge majority of Mac/iPod/iPhone users will get one... just because it is Apple. Other brands simply don't command such loyalty, and that is - from my point of view - the biggest achievement Jobs managed to pull out.
That's a good point. I should have said capacitance, MultiTouch touchscreen smartphone segment. On that level, Apple stands alone (as far as I know).
Maybe they don't work well because they are just using the standard bluetooth headset profile, not a2dp?
You are fine to live in your little dream world of your perfect device, I don't mind, if you want to think you have bluetooth device, that is fine by me.
Maybe they don't work well because they are just using the standard bluetooth headset profile, not a2dp?
You are fine to live in your little dream world of your perfect device, I don't mind, if you want to think you have bluetooth device, that is fine by me.
You're impossible to deal with.
Now you talk about a "perfect device" when no one means that at all, which you very well know.
But you want to up the ante so to speak.
If you can't get your way, then you change it.
Not good debating technique.
That's why it really does look as though you are trolling.
Now you talk about a "perfect device" when no one means that at all, which you very well know.
But you want to up the ante so to speak.
If you can't get your way, then you change it.
Not good debating technique.
That's why it really does look as though you are trolling.
You can think that all you want, you gave me a definition that you were happy with, I could still prove that the device doesn't meet that definition, and you still will not accept it. If you want to continue living in a fantasy world, you are more than welcome.
I haven't mentioned a "perfect device" as you put it, you are the one that brings that continues to bring that up.
Comments
For instance, in the iPhone forum, there are more than few people who's entire oeuvre consists of repeated reminders that the iPhone is actually a terrible, crippled piece of shit that only sells in the numbers it does because Apple sheeple are easily swayed by shiny things.
Until they buy one and become so obsessed with it they use it to shove it up their (@#*
Even though, in this instance, Mel is so [I]completely and egregiously wrong it should disqualify him from being allowed the company of his fellow men.
I appreciate the assumption on your part that I have "fellow men".
My mileage here, both in what I've seen and in what I've directly experienced, definitely varies from that.
Often you can have a thoughtful criticism, and still be attacked for it. When I first started posting here, I was often called a troll. I still get dismissed occasionally for being 'anti-Apple' or some amusing variation thereof on occasion. And I think I've been treated mildly compared to some.
There is definitely some 'groupthink' at AI, but you can fight your way through it by having a tough-enough skin. Doesn't mean that it still doesn't suck, tho'.
...
He's talking about the mods, those terrible people such as myself, who remove posts at the slightest whim, and threaten people every time we get criticized, or the site is criticized.
Oh, wait, that isn't done here!
He's talking about the mods, those terrible people such as myself, who remove posts at the slightest whim, and threaten people every time we get criticized, or the site is criticized.
Oh, wait, that isn't done here!
Nope, that would be MacRumors, where even the word "hell" will get you and your family banned for life.
He's talking about the mods, those terrible people such as myself, who remove posts at the slightest whim, and threaten people every time we get criticized, or the site is criticized.
Oh, wait, that isn't done here!
There is a middle ground between being a Nazi, and doing too little.
In any case, I worry less about the mods and more about the posters when it comes to AI. But mods can certainly affect the posters to an extent.
Or completely, if one wants to go to the HoFo 'lockdown' model, where a sneeze gets you banned. I don't dig that.
Funny thing is, posters at HoFo defend that model to the death, and call you a troll for not liking it.
...
I think some of the hostility and dismissiveness comes from the perceptions/attitudes of the posters who respond that way. Too many of them tend to mistake honest critiques for attacks or trolling.
That said, there are a few ppl who are out to troll. But I do wish ppl were better about distinguishing between the trolls and the honest critics.
As far as trolling goes, I've found that there are a bunch of people who are trolling. Some of them can get converted by the simple fact of accusing them of it. It's amazing that many trolls don't seem to understand that they are recognized as such, and when they are, they become embarrassed, and attempt to show they aren't. I've seen it happen more than once, which is why I have no problem outing what I think to be one.
Trolls usually have a simple format. Say something that will get people angry. Hint (or say outright) that people who like, or don't like whatever it is, are fanboys. Say nothing in depth. Refuse to directly answer replies that have logical arguments or facts. Repeat with little variance the original statement(s).
When I see that happen, as I did recently, I always assume it's trolling.
My philosophy on Apple over the past few years is this:
Whether Jobs is brilliant, or just lucky, he's made mostly very good decisions. Most other CEO's from other companies in the industry, brilliant or not, haven't.
Apple has mostly made higher quality products, while most competitors haven't.
Apple has mostly made products that people want, where most competitors haven't.
Apple has mostly seen where things are going, where most competitors haven't.
Apple has managed their finances better than most of their competitors.
Apple's marketing has been better than most of the marketing of their competitors.
Apple has screwed up, but less than most of their competitors.
That covers most of it.
There's plenty to like there in Apple, but there's also enough they've done to disagree with and grumble about.
I do all of that.
As Apple is successful, mostly I find things to agree with. But I also find things to disagree with.
At all times I try to remember that Apple is a company that must think about the company first, and that whatever they do, its not because they are some mythical benevolent godfather, but a company that must care about existing, growing, and being profitable, and that everything else follows from that.
That means that there will always be some group that is not happy with something they may have done, but whose desires simply doesn't fall into the company's plans.
It's always interesting to see that some newbie who doesn't know the senior members of the site, is willing to label us as fanboys based on a single discussion over a single issue.
As far as trolling goes, I've found that there are a bunch of people who are trolling. Some of them can get converted by the simple fact of accusing them of it. It's amazing that many trolls don't seem to understand that they are recognized as such, and when they are, they become embarrassed, and attempt to show they aren't. I've seen it happen more than once, which is why I have no problem outing what I think to be one.
As I've said, such ppl exist. But many ppl get accused of trolling who aren't trolls at all.
In fact, I seem to remember butting heads with you quite strongly at our first meeting here. No doubt you thought me a troll then. But I ended up not being one. Food for thought, eh?
...
There is a middle ground between being a Nazi, and doing too little.
In any case, I worry less about the mods and more about the posters when it comes to AI. But mods can certainly affect the posters to an extent.
Or completely, if one wants to go to the HoFo 'lockdown' model, where a sneeze gets you banned. I don't dig that.
Funny thing is, posters at HoFo defend that model to the death, and call you a troll for not liking it.
...
It's a very difficult decision to make.
Over the years, I've been called all sorts of things, including any number of four letter words, or others with the same concept. Never has a mod, to my knowledge, done anything about it, though some people have mailed me privately to ask if they should complain. I've only done so way back, when the statements were so egregious that I had to say something, and that was only to ask to have the person in question watched for a while.
People are funny though. I've responded to some rather stupid and hostile postings, only to have people comment on my response, without making comments on the posts that began it.
I once responded to an insulting post on ARs, and Caesar threatened to ban me for a few days. Seven people came on line to defend my response, and to blame the other poster, but Caesar never acknowledged their defense.
It's all very strange.
The question is just how far it can be allowed to go.
It's easy if someone just blasts out some unacceptable statements about someone, but more often, the tempers rise slowly. Nothing is understood to be amiss until, sometimes, pages later. How does one work with that?
I'd rather see it peter out by itself. As I've been so involved with these things myself here, I don't see it as being a big problem. A warning to calm down seems to be enough most of the time.
As I've said, such ppl exist. But many ppl get accused of trolling who aren't trolls at all.
In fact, I seem to remember butting heads with you quite strongly at our first meeting here. No doubt you thought me a troll then. But I ended up not being one. Food for thought, eh?
...
Butting heads is fine. It's all very boring if we agree on everything. But I never thought you were a troll.
You can usually tell if I do. Firstoff, I will usually ask if the person is trolling, and try to get some more coherent statements out of him. If that doesn't work, then normally, the person IS a troll.
But, as I've said, sometimes you can even get a troll to move away from that.
Butting heads is fine. It's all very boring if we agree on everything. But I never thought you were a troll.
You gave me a very strong impression otherwise.
In any case, notice something? We seem to be talking a great deal of troll witch-hunt here. Also the AI way.
Whether you realize or not Mel, you are of AI on this one. Not sure it's quite so healthy for the community to be worrying so very much about a rather small group of ppl. The obvious trolls always give themselves away, and they don't matter much anyway. "We have met the enemy, and they is dumb."
A more serious issue is AIers fighting amongst themselves over trivialities and banalities, ad nauseum.
...
It's a very difficult decision to make.
Over the years, I've been called all sorts of things, including any number of four letter words, or others with the same concept. Never has a mod, to my knowledge, done anything about it, though some people have mailed me privately to ask if they should complain. I've only done so way back, when the statements were so egregious that I had to say something, and that was only to ask to have the person in question watched for a while.
People are funny though. I've responded to some rather stupid and hostile postings, only to have people comment on my response, without making comments on the posts that began it.
I once responded to an insulting post on ARs, and Caesar threatened to ban me for a few days. Seven people came on line to defend my response, and to blame the other poster, but Caesar never acknowledged their defense.
It's all very strange.
The question is just how far it can be allowed to go.
It's easy if someone just blasts out some unacceptable statements about someone, but more often, the tempers rise slowly. Nothing is understood to be amiss until, sometimes, pages later. How does one work with that?
I'd rather see it peter out by itself. As I've been so involved with these things myself here, I don't see it as being a big problem. A warning to calm down seems to be enough most of the time.
I hear ya. It IS hard. I used to be a mod on the MacNN forums.
I would just say, take it up a notch, be a little bit more activist in intervening in situations before they get nasty, do more to keep things on track. I did so when I was a mod, and it usually turned out for the better.
The one or two times when a bad little boy poster would give me unfair grief over it, he was gang-tackled by the community, essentially. Kind of gratifying to see actually.
Anyways, it's that time again... gotta go. Take care man.
...
As far as trolling goes, I've found that there are a bunch of people who are trolling. Some of them can get converted by the simple fact of accusing them of it. It's amazing that many trolls don't seem to understand that they are recognized as such, and when they are, they become embarrassed, and attempt to show they aren't. I've seen it happen more than once, which is why I have no problem outing what I think to be one.
Trolls usually have a simple format. Say something that will get people angry. Hint (or say outright) that people who like, or don't like whatever it is, are fanboys. Say nothing in depth. Refuse to directly answer replies that have logical arguments or facts. Repeat with little variance the original statement(s).
When I see that happen, as I did recently, I always assume it's trolling.
My philosophy on Apple over the past few years is this:
Whether Jobs is brilliant, or just lucky, he's made mostly very good decisions. Most other CEO's from other companies in the industry, brilliant or not, haven't.
Apple has mostly made higher quality products, while most competitors haven't.
Apple has mostly made products that people want, where most competitors haven't.
Apple has mostly seen where things are going, where most competitors haven't.
Apple has managed their finances better than most of their competitors.
Apple's marketing has been better than most of the marketing of their competitors.
Apple has screwed up, but less than most of their competitors.
That covers most of it.
There's plenty to like there in Apple, but there's also enough they've done to disagree with and grumble about.
I do all of that.
As Apple is successful, mostly I find things to agree with. But I also find things to disagree with.
At all times I try to remember that Apple is a company that must think about the company first, and that whatever they do, its not because they are some mythical benevolent godfather, but a company that must care about existing, growing, and being profitable, and that everything else follows from that.
That means that there will always be some group that is not happy with something they may have done, but whose desires simply doesn't fall into the company's plans.
It's always interesting to see that some newbie who doesn't know the senior members of the site, is willing to label us as fanboys based on a single discussion over a single issue.
I have said the exact same thing as you on other forums and I was banned permanently by a bunch of mac haters.
I haven't said anything to rile people up. All I have posted is backed up by FACTS from reputable websites reporting on the news. I also tried to keep the emotion out of it... no such luck. I was called koolaid drinker, steve job's pet, apple fanboi, steve jobs himself, etc, in short I was flamed to a crisp.
People who choose to believe that windows vista is not a pile of crap will continue to do so.
People who do not understand that mac software is not about the looks, it about doing things more efficiently, will continue to believe the former.
People who thing macs are overpriced will not budge, even though I have repeatedly demonstrated that the much larger productivity that comes from using a mac will pay itself in no time.
People just don't understand that substituting their computers will macs, cable tv with apple tv, clunky backup systems with time machine, and phones with the iphone, will improve their quality of life 10-fold by doing more with less time so you can spend more time with family and friends, you know stuff that matters, instead of installing 100 third party software to do what a mac does out of the box or cleaning the latest trojan attack.
These are sad times. To me it is like during medieval times when the vast majority of Europe still believed that the word of god was all there was. Science existed but it was confined to a tiny minority who had brilliant and corageous minds. Time will come when humanity will see the light and everybody will convert from darkness (Windows) to the light (Macs).
In addition, there's an even more specific segment that seems to be really popular: touchscreen smartphones. And with the G1 not being much to talk about while the BlackBerry Storm continues to take on a lot of bad press, Apple is in a terribly good position.
It is not just touchscreen. Palm Treo line has touch screens on most of their models for years, and many Pocket PC phones have touch screen as well. It is not even about features - people ARE complaining about missing ones. It is design of software and hardware, and their integration... plus, of course, the image factor and brand loyalty.
Apple is in the sweet spot right now. If they make, say, bottle opener, I bet huge majority of Mac/iPod/iPhone users will get one... just because it is Apple. Other brands simply don't command such loyalty, and that is - from my point of view - the biggest achievement Jobs managed to pull out.
Apple is in the sweet spot right now. If they make, say, bottle opener, I bet huge majority of Mac/iPod/iPhone users will get one... just because it is Apple. Other brands simply don't command such loyalty, and that is - from my point of view - the biggest achievement Jobs managed to pull out.
The interesting thing is that many people who don't own an Apple product will buy it.
It is not just touchscreen. Palm Treo line has touch screens on most of their models for years, and many Pocket PC phones have touch screen as well.
Don't forget that not there are different touchscreen technologies. I think Apple is the sole owner and the only one using capacitance touchscreens.
It is not just touchscreen. Palm Treo line has touch screens on most of their models for years, and many Pocket PC phones have touch screen as well. It is not even about features - people ARE complaining about missing ones. It is design of software and hardware, and their integration... plus, of course, the image factor and brand loyalty.
Apple is in the sweet spot right now. If they make, say, bottle opener, I bet huge majority of Mac/iPod/iPhone users will get one... just because it is Apple. Other brands simply don't command such loyalty, and that is - from my point of view - the biggest achievement Jobs managed to pull out.
That's a good point. I should have said capacitance, MultiTouch touchscreen smartphone segment.
The feature is Bluetooth. It has Bluetooth.
As Hill60 has said, stereo Bluetooth headphones don't work well. You may get luck, sometimes, but likely you will not.
http://www.mobileburn.com/story.jsp?Id=2770
Maybe they don't work well because they are just using the standard bluetooth headset profile, not a2dp?
You are fine to live in your little dream world of your perfect device, I don't mind, if you want to think you have bluetooth device, that is fine by me.
Where are cell phones headed? This link has been posted elsewhere, but it's worth viewing in the context of this thread.
http://fora.tv/2008/07/07/Walt_Mossb...the_Cell_Phone
Quotes:
"The iPhone is the first hand-held computer that happens to make voice calls."
Maybe Walt should adjust his quote, I have a hand held computer that is able to make voice calls, and it came out before the iPhone did.
Maybe they don't work well because they are just using the standard bluetooth headset profile, not a2dp?
You are fine to live in your little dream world of your perfect device, I don't mind, if you want to think you have bluetooth device, that is fine by me.
You're impossible to deal with.
Now you talk about a "perfect device" when no one means that at all, which you very well know.
But you want to up the ante so to speak.
If you can't get your way, then you change it.
Not good debating technique.
That's why it really does look as though you are trolling.
You're impossible to deal with.
Now you talk about a "perfect device" when no one means that at all, which you very well know.
But you want to up the ante so to speak.
If you can't get your way, then you change it.
Not good debating technique.
That's why it really does look as though you are trolling.
You can think that all you want, you gave me a definition that you were happy with, I could still prove that the device doesn't meet that definition, and you still will not accept it. If you want to continue living in a fantasy world, you are more than welcome.
I haven't mentioned a "perfect device" as you put it, you are the one that brings that continues to bring that up.