"A short while"? You mean, the lifetime of your average cellphone? It's a "short while" kind of market, when it comes to features. You might not care about the now, but many others do.
No MMS might not be a big deal in 2015. Right now, for many, it is. I don't think there's a way to argue around that, except to say that, for you, it's okay.
And that's fine. What about all the people who are not you?
...
Two years, or so, is a short while.
I'm not denying that many people currently use MMS. I didn't dispute any of the numbers, did I?
What I'm saying is that there's a difference between using what's available, because its available, and using it because you think it's the best way to do it.
It's why most people here on this site are using Macs. Windows is surely the safer bet because vastly more people, companies, and governments use it, true?
But, the Mac is gaining marketshare at a fairly rapid pace, and has been.
Of course, overcoming the investments made in hardware and software, as well as knowledge of the OS and such, make it much more difficult to move from one computer platform to another than it is from one phone platform (if you can call most phones a "platform at all) to another.
So the Mac may never take over from Windows. But looking at e-mail on phones is very different. Every phone platform is now understanding just how many people want good, easy e-mail, and they are beginning to provide it.
After a while, companies will be able to put it on phones that aren't very "smart". It will be everywhere.
"For years, tech critics like me have occasionally endured abuse from the Cult of Mac. If you write anything that even hints at a less-than-perfect Apple effort (like my reviews of, for example, the original Apple TV, iMovie '08 or MobileMe), the backlash is swift, vitriolic and heated. We're talking insults, vulgarities and even threats. I've always thought that that vocal sub-population of Mac fans make up the world's most watchful, most hostile grass-roots lobbying arm.
But now I see that I was wrong. There's an even nastier one: the BlackBerry nuts."
Do people like MMS because they like MMS? No, they like MMS because it allows them to send pictures to friends. Email provides the same functionality...only free. Providing official support for MMS would have been redundant when email works just as well, if not better. Obviously, Apple didn't cut a very crucial feature, otherwise...the iPhone wouldn't be selling like gangbusters!
No offense taken. I have a long string of innovative and forward thinking achievements thanks.
There are many people on this forum who are not short of a few dollar, I think they come here for fun.
Yup, I'm here for fun! And watching this exchange has been fun!
My 2 cents: MMS is already huge today, is still growing globally, and is a key source of carrier revenue (so very much encouraged by the carriers). I believe Apple did not implement MMS because MMS is "limited" to cellphones, and Apple wanted to move people to the Interweb and standards-based email. And by virtue of iPhone's success, it could "force" other cellphone makers to include email, and so eventually kill off MMS. Including MMS on iPhone would not provide that "forcing" function. Apple bet that they could get away with it and so far they have.
I think Apple traded SMS for greater control, and though preferring to not ever implement MMS, it still holds MMS as a trading chip to get other carrier concessions (if and when needed).
Mobile email and IM may very well be the future, Mel. Thing is, MMS is the now.
Yah, but with the really annoying fees for MMS and SMS I think the carriers are well on their way to killing that form of texting in favor of IM and Twitter.
Of course, without backgrounding on the iPhone, those kinda apps are crippled at the moment unless part of the iPhone core...so I don't disagree that Apple should have offered MMS apps on the iPhone but I wonder how much is AT&T dragging it's heels. Heck, they still haven't gotten a tethering plan together yet.
By your logic, any company that makes anything is "dictatorial" if they don't deliver everythingeveryone wants from day one.
Where's the BlackBerry Bold's (or Storm's) visual voicemail, MultiTouch gestures, and 3D games? Ooh, those BlackBerry dictators are so cruel!
Also, how would one scroll with the Home Button?
It's not my logic and you are missing the point my friend!
I was not the one that used the word "dictatorial"! Just repeating it. So it is not my philosophy, it's someone else.
I am not Greg Joswiak who said 'copy and paste is low on Apple's priority of things to do'!
Why isn't there cut and paste? Apple has a priority list of features, and they got as far as they could down that list with this model, Joswiak said. In other words, they don't have anything against cut and paste. They just judged other things to be more important
Just pointing out that "with the ability to add just about anything else as demand requires" isn't an absolute that Apple is going to follow. And I'm just repeating that quote too. Again it is not my company position, it's Apple.
Man, now I know what Rush Limbaugh goes through when he reads what others have written or has been quoted as saying what others said first and it gets implied that he, Rush, is the original source! Not so, just the messenger of the lead-ins to the stories. Gripe at him for his commentary afterwards but for not starting the conversation by pointing out what's been written or said. Jeesh!
It's not my logic and you are missing the point my friend!
I was not the one that used the word "dictatorial"! Just repeating it. So it is not my philosophy, it's someone else.
I am not Greg Joswiak who said 'copy and paste is low on Apple's priority of things to do'!
Why isn't there cut and paste? Apple has a priority list of features, and they got as far as they could down that list with this model, Joswiak said. In other words, they don't have anything against cut and paste. They just judged other things to be more important
Just pointing out that "with the ability to add just about anything else as demand requires" isn't an absolute that Apple is going to follow. And I'm just repeating that quote too. Again it is not my company position, it's Apple.
Man, now I know what Rush Limbaugh goes through when he reads what others have written or has been quoted as saying what others said first and it gets implied that he, Rush, is the original source! Not so, just the messenger of the lead-ins to the stories. Gripe at him for his commentary afterwards but for not starting the conversation by pointing out what's been written or said. Jeesh!
Apple didn't say they weren't doing it though. Some posters have been making statements that are assuming that Apple won't be doing it because they haven't done it already.
Writers on other sites who are themselves experts in this have said that adding cut and paste is difficult to do properly, and that;s why they are happy Apple didn't rush to get it in there. I don't see why they should get this out fast. I'd rather see it done properly.
Limbaugh us a right wing nut case. He says things that he should know better about, but he repeats them to forward his conservative philosophy.
I don't miss MMS at all, and I know lots of people with iPhones. none of them seem to miss it either.
I've never sent a MMS in my life - in fact I wouldn't know how. I tried using a friend's Blackberry once but I couldn't figure it out at all - really awkward. But some of my technologically challenged friends seem to use MMS all the time to send photos to their families. Maybe because their parents don't have computers or it is the only way they know to send photos. Some people use features that others don't care about. Faxes are really bad technology but people still use it.
I've never sent a MMS in my life - in fact I wouldn't know how. I tried using a friend's Blackberry once but I couldn't figure it out at all - really awkward. But some of my technologically challenged friends seem to use MMS all the time to send photos to their families. Maybe because their parents don't have computers or it is the only way they know to send photos. Some people use features that others don't care about. Faxes are really bad technology but people still use it.
As more people get e-mail on their phones that is easy to use, they will realize just how limited MMS is, that it comes from an age before mobile e-mail.
Everyone (pretty much) uses e-mail, far more than use MMS.
It took until version 3 of Win Mobile before copy and paste arrived. RIM has had Blackberry's out for years now. Much longer than the iPhone.
As has been written elsewhere, copy and paste is NOT a simple thing to add, despite what you and a few others seem to think.
Whatever Apple does will last for the entire life of this platform, and so it must be done right. The way RIM does it isn't so wonderful, by the way.
As for the other "problems" you mention, other makers have their own.
I couldn't care in the least for a higher MP camera that delivers the crap that all phone cameras deliver. Big deal. While I'm pretty sure that when Apple comes out with a second gen iPhone, they'll upgrade that, it hardly matters. No cameraphone images I've ever seen are even close to the quality that even the cheaper compact cameras offer. The one cameraphone that did offer decent photo's was made by Samsung, from what I remember, and it never made it in the marketplace.
Would I like to see video? Sure, but not a big deal. Replaceable battery, I suppose it wouldn't hurt, but I've never used one in any of my smartphones, and I don't know anyone else who has either. Besides, there would be negatives going with that as well.
Apple had advertised for a lens engineer with experience in designing small lenses some months ago, or perhaps a year. The job description sure sounded as though Apple was looking to do something to a newer iPhone, so we'll see.
I'd much rather the first editions of new product platforms get it right with fewer "features", in the first place, and then build them up over newer models.
I'll keep my bitching down until a new model comes out sometime in 2006, perhaps around the ADC.
You are missing my point also. I'm not trying to answer the question.
Just merely adding to the back and forth between GQB and jfanning regarding "full feature" and "demand vs Apple grants you / dictatorial".
The copy and paste, battery, camera all were just pick-ups of other peoples gripes when the iPhone was first introduced and the release of the second version and the software updates. I have no gripes about the iPhone because I have no iPhone! Not yet.
You are missing my point also. I'm not trying to answer the question.
Just merely adding to the back and forth between GQB and jfanning regarding "full feature" and "demand vs Apple grants you / dictatorial".
The copy and paste, battery, camera all were just pick-ups of other peoples gripes when the iPhone was first introduced and the release of the second version and the software updates. I have no gripes about the iPhone because I have no iPhone! Not yet.
Sure, but the rest of the world isn't 100% unsubsidized, anti-contract either.
You also seem to be ignoring my original point: the first generation iPhone was $500-$600 and was sold in the gray market because there was so much overseas demand. In addition, these iPhones were often sold at a premium by hawkers. Now the iPhone 3G is easily attainable in these countries at a lower price than what hawkers would charge.
Not sure what you are trying to get at really.
I can go to various locations (expansys, Komplett, 3G, Nokia stores, SE stores etc) and purchase a phone contract/lock free. I can go to Vodafone, O2, 3, Meteor, etc etc and purchase the same phone locked to that Network. I can also purchase an iPhone, locked to O2, no matter how much I pay, it is locked to O2, and O2 alone.
The reason people were getting those phones from the US were down to a few reasons.
1. They could be unlocked
2. The US$ was at an extemely low rate
3. You could not purchase the device anywhere else, making it a status symbol for some people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wobegon
Then why the hell did you bring it up!
Because everyone was talking about the US$199 model, which isn't the 1st gen model.
You can't honestly say that if you were reading jfannings and GQB's posts and then come to my "chime in" post, where it was I got what I said and where I was going with it, can you?
Why don't you give us a definition of what you think full featured means?
Well lets go back to post 3...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning
I am not the one that started it, Daniel said it was full featured not me, if it is a game, maybe he shouldn't have added that part to the article, after all looking at the Apple Dictionary...
Full - not lacking or omitting anything; complete
Feature - A distinctive attribute or aspect of something
The iPhone is definitely not full featured
ok, a feature is something like bluetooth, now is A2DP implemented on the iPhone? No? According to bluetooth.com it doesn't support many of the bluetooth features
Ok, by definition, the iPhone is not full featured...
You can't honestly say that if you were reading jfannings and GQB's posts and then come to my "chime in" post, where it was I got what I said and where I was going with it, can you?
It seemed that way. If not, I retract what I said.
Where in post 67 did you give a definition? That was a post by me responding to you.
Quote:
ok, a feature is something like bluetooth, now is A2DP implemented on the iPhone? No? According to bluetooth.com it doesn't support many of the bluetooth features
Ok, by definition, the iPhone is not full featured...
It has Bluetooth. That means it has the feature. It doesn't have to support every aspect of the feature.
Comments
"A short while"? You mean, the lifetime of your average cellphone? It's a "short while" kind of market, when it comes to features. You might not care about the now, but many others do.
No MMS might not be a big deal in 2015. Right now, for many, it is. I don't think there's a way to argue around that, except to say that, for you, it's okay.
And that's fine. What about all the people who are not you?
...
Two years, or so, is a short while.
I'm not denying that many people currently use MMS. I didn't dispute any of the numbers, did I?
What I'm saying is that there's a difference between using what's available, because its available, and using it because you think it's the best way to do it.
It's why most people here on this site are using Macs. Windows is surely the safer bet because vastly more people, companies, and governments use it, true?
But, the Mac is gaining marketshare at a fairly rapid pace, and has been.
Of course, overcoming the investments made in hardware and software, as well as knowledge of the OS and such, make it much more difficult to move from one computer platform to another than it is from one phone platform (if you can call most phones a "platform at all) to another.
So the Mac may never take over from Windows. But looking at e-mail on phones is very different. Every phone platform is now understanding just how many people want good, easy e-mail, and they are beginning to provide it.
After a while, companies will be able to put it on phones that aren't very "smart". It will be everywhere.
Take care, and Happy Holidays. Most especially to you, Mel.
...
And I've made it very clear that I understand this and am sorta kinda agreeing with you, for some unspecified date in the future.
So we're debating about, what, precisely?
...
Consolidating our positions for everyone else?
But now I see that I was wrong. There's an even nastier one: the BlackBerry nuts."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/04/te...&ex=1228539600
It's likely not about MMS, but the functionality.
Do people like MMS because they like MMS? No, they like MMS because it allows them to send pictures to friends. Email provides the same functionality...only free. Providing official support for MMS would have been redundant when email works just as well, if not better. Obviously, Apple didn't cut a very crucial feature, otherwise...the iPhone wouldn't be selling like gangbusters!
No offense taken. I have a long string of innovative and forward thinking achievements thanks.
There are many people on this forum who are not short of a few dollar, I think they come here for fun.
Yup, I'm here for fun! And watching this exchange has been fun!
My 2 cents: MMS is already huge today, is still growing globally, and is a key source of carrier revenue (so very much encouraged by the carriers). I believe Apple did not implement MMS because MMS is "limited" to cellphones, and Apple wanted to move people to the Interweb and standards-based email. And by virtue of iPhone's success, it could "force" other cellphone makers to include email, and so eventually kill off MMS. Including MMS on iPhone would not provide that "forcing" function. Apple bet that they could get away with it and so far they have.
I think Apple traded SMS for greater control, and though preferring to not ever implement MMS, it still holds MMS as a trading chip to get other carrier concessions (if and when needed).
In any case guys, running the AI gauntlet has been fun, but I have things to do.
Take care, and Happy Holidays. Most especially to you, Mel.
...
You too!
Mobile email and IM may very well be the future, Mel. Thing is, MMS is the now.
Yah, but with the really annoying fees for MMS and SMS I think the carriers are well on their way to killing that form of texting in favor of IM and Twitter.
Of course, without backgrounding on the iPhone, those kinda apps are crippled at the moment unless part of the iPhone core...so I don't disagree that Apple should have offered MMS apps on the iPhone but I wonder how much is AT&T dragging it's heels. Heck, they still haven't gotten a tethering plan together yet.
You can't really blame Apple for that.
By your logic, any company that makes anything is "dictatorial" if they don't deliver everything everyone wants from day one.
Where's the BlackBerry Bold's (or Storm's) visual voicemail, MultiTouch gestures, and 3D games? Ooh, those BlackBerry dictators are so cruel!
Also, how would one scroll with the Home Button?
It's not my logic and you are missing the point my friend!
I was not the one that used the word "dictatorial"! Just repeating it. So it is not my philosophy, it's someone else.
I am not Greg Joswiak who said 'copy and paste is low on Apple's priority of things to do'!
Why isn't there cut and paste? Apple has a priority list of features, and they got as far as they could down that list with this model, Joswiak said. In other words, they don't have anything against cut and paste. They just judged other things to be more important
http://www.appscout.com/2008/07/appl...ps_cut_and.php
Just pointing out that "with the ability to add just about anything else as demand requires" isn't an absolute that Apple is going to follow. And I'm just repeating that quote too. Again it is not my company position, it's Apple.
Man, now I know what Rush Limbaugh goes through when he reads what others have written or has been quoted as saying what others said first and it gets implied that he, Rush, is the original source! Not so, just the messenger of the lead-ins to the stories. Gripe at him for his commentary afterwards but for not starting the conversation by pointing out what's been written or said. Jeesh!
*where DOROTHY = Every cellphone vendor that doesn't sell the iPhone.
It's not my logic and you are missing the point my friend!
I was not the one that used the word "dictatorial"! Just repeating it. So it is not my philosophy, it's someone else.
I am not Greg Joswiak who said 'copy and paste is low on Apple's priority of things to do'!
Why isn't there cut and paste? Apple has a priority list of features, and they got as far as they could down that list with this model, Joswiak said. In other words, they don't have anything against cut and paste. They just judged other things to be more important
http://www.appscout.com/2008/07/appl...ps_cut_and.php
Just pointing out that "with the ability to add just about anything else as demand requires" isn't an absolute that Apple is going to follow. And I'm just repeating that quote too. Again it is not my company position, it's Apple.
Man, now I know what Rush Limbaugh goes through when he reads what others have written or has been quoted as saying what others said first and it gets implied that he, Rush, is the original source! Not so, just the messenger of the lead-ins to the stories. Gripe at him for his commentary afterwards but for not starting the conversation by pointing out what's been written or said. Jeesh!
Apple didn't say they weren't doing it though. Some posters have been making statements that are assuming that Apple won't be doing it because they haven't done it already.
Writers on other sites who are themselves experts in this have said that adding cut and paste is difficult to do properly, and that;s why they are happy Apple didn't rush to get it in there. I don't see why they should get this out fast. I'd rather see it done properly.
Limbaugh us a right wing nut case. He says things that he should know better about, but he repeats them to forward his conservative philosophy.
I don't miss MMS at all, and I know lots of people with iPhones. none of them seem to miss it either.
I've never sent a MMS in my life - in fact I wouldn't know how. I tried using a friend's Blackberry once but I couldn't figure it out at all - really awkward. But some of my technologically challenged friends seem to use MMS all the time to send photos to their families. Maybe because their parents don't have computers or it is the only way they know to send photos. Some people use features that others don't care about. Faxes are really bad technology but people still use it.
I've never sent a MMS in my life - in fact I wouldn't know how. I tried using a friend's Blackberry once but I couldn't figure it out at all - really awkward. But some of my technologically challenged friends seem to use MMS all the time to send photos to their families. Maybe because their parents don't have computers or it is the only way they know to send photos. Some people use features that others don't care about. Faxes are really bad technology but people still use it.
As more people get e-mail on their phones that is easy to use, they will realize just how limited MMS is, that it comes from an age before mobile e-mail.
Everyone (pretty much) uses e-mail, far more than use MMS.
An e-mail can be sent anywhere, not so MMS.
You're not answering the question either.
It took until version 3 of Win Mobile before copy and paste arrived. RIM has had Blackberry's out for years now. Much longer than the iPhone.
As has been written elsewhere, copy and paste is NOT a simple thing to add, despite what you and a few others seem to think.
Whatever Apple does will last for the entire life of this platform, and so it must be done right. The way RIM does it isn't so wonderful, by the way.
As for the other "problems" you mention, other makers have their own.
I couldn't care in the least for a higher MP camera that delivers the crap that all phone cameras deliver. Big deal. While I'm pretty sure that when Apple comes out with a second gen iPhone, they'll upgrade that, it hardly matters. No cameraphone images I've ever seen are even close to the quality that even the cheaper compact cameras offer. The one cameraphone that did offer decent photo's was made by Samsung, from what I remember, and it never made it in the marketplace.
Would I like to see video? Sure, but not a big deal. Replaceable battery, I suppose it wouldn't hurt, but I've never used one in any of my smartphones, and I don't know anyone else who has either. Besides, there would be negatives going with that as well.
Apple had advertised for a lens engineer with experience in designing small lenses some months ago, or perhaps a year. The job description sure sounded as though Apple was looking to do something to a newer iPhone, so we'll see.
I'd much rather the first editions of new product platforms get it right with fewer "features", in the first place, and then build them up over newer models.
I'll keep my bitching down until a new model comes out sometime in 2006, perhaps around the ADC.
You are missing my point also. I'm not trying to answer the question.
Just merely adding to the back and forth between GQB and jfanning regarding "full feature" and "demand vs Apple grants you / dictatorial".
The copy and paste, battery, camera all were just pick-ups of other peoples gripes when the iPhone was first introduced and the release of the second version and the software updates. I have no gripes about the iPhone because I have no iPhone! Not yet.
You are missing my point also. I'm not trying to answer the question.
Just merely adding to the back and forth between GQB and jfanning regarding "full feature" and "demand vs Apple grants you / dictatorial".
The copy and paste, battery, camera all were just pick-ups of other peoples gripes when the iPhone was first introduced and the release of the second version and the software updates. I have no gripes about the iPhone because I have no iPhone! Not yet.
Ok, but your posts don't quite read that way.
Sure, but the rest of the world isn't 100% unsubsidized, anti-contract either.
You also seem to be ignoring my original point: the first generation iPhone was $500-$600 and was sold in the gray market because there was so much overseas demand. In addition, these iPhones were often sold at a premium by hawkers. Now the iPhone 3G is easily attainable in these countries at a lower price than what hawkers would charge.
Not sure what you are trying to get at really.
I can go to various locations (expansys, Komplett, 3G, Nokia stores, SE stores etc) and purchase a phone contract/lock free. I can go to Vodafone, O2, 3, Meteor, etc etc and purchase the same phone locked to that Network. I can also purchase an iPhone, locked to O2, no matter how much I pay, it is locked to O2, and O2 alone.
The reason people were getting those phones from the US were down to a few reasons.
1. They could be unlocked
2. The US$ was at an extemely low rate
3. You could not purchase the device anywhere else, making it a status symbol for some people.
Then why the hell did you bring it up!
Because everyone was talking about the US$199 model, which isn't the 1st gen model.
Ok, but your posts don't quite read that way.
You can't honestly say that if you were reading jfannings and GQB's posts and then come to my "chime in" post, where it was I got what I said and where I was going with it, can you?
Well if both are true, I can't find them.
Why don't you give us a definition of what you think full featured means?
Well lets go back to post 3...
I am not the one that started it, Daniel said it was full featured not me, if it is a game, maybe he shouldn't have added that part to the article, after all looking at the Apple Dictionary...
Full - not lacking or omitting anything; complete
Feature - A distinctive attribute or aspect of something
The iPhone is definitely not full featured
ok, a feature is something like bluetooth, now is A2DP implemented on the iPhone? No? According to bluetooth.com it doesn't support many of the bluetooth features
Ok, by definition, the iPhone is not full featured...
You can't honestly say that if you were reading jfannings and GQB's posts and then come to my "chime in" post, where it was I got what I said and where I was going with it, can you?
It seemed that way. If not, I retract what I said.
Well lets go back to post 67...
Where in post 67 did you give a definition? That was a post by me responding to you.
ok, a feature is something like bluetooth, now is A2DP implemented on the iPhone? No? According to bluetooth.com it doesn't support many of the bluetooth features
Ok, by definition, the iPhone is not full featured...
It has Bluetooth. That means it has the feature. It doesn't have to support every aspect of the feature.