One thing I've noticed that's definitely a result of increased smartphone demand is that almost every non-smartphone commercial now prominently advertises the phone's "full qwerty keyboard." So at the very least, full-keyboard lacking "dumb" phones are dead.
Hmm, I don't see people wanting to talk on a bulkier, more expensive toy laptop.
Hmmmm, most of the smart phones I see are at Starbucks or Panera. The largest % of folks I see still use plain ole flip phones. Heck, I still use a snicker-style phone and have no desire to upgrade. If I want the internet I use a laptop. If I want a palm-sized-ISH device for portable internet I would rather have a small, but complete, tablet device that can act as a full computer, not a dumbed-down handheld.
When I can buy an iPod Touch/iPhone and pair it with a bluetooth keyboard so that I can take notes in class as if I had a laptop then Apple will get my money.
Hmmmm, most of the smart phones I see are at Starbucks or Panera. The largest % of folks I see still use plain ole flip phones. Heck, I still use a snicker-style phone and have no desire to upgrade. If I want the internet I use a laptop. If I want a palm-sized-ISH device for portable internet I would rather have a small, but complete, tablet device that can act as a full computer, not a dumbed-down handheld.
When I can buy an iPod Touch/iPhone and pair it with a bluetooth keyboard so that I can take notes in class as if I had a laptop then Apple will get my money.
Most smartphones I see are on the NYC subway, and in the hands of the parents and students of my daughters high school. Mostly iPhones and Blackberry's, with a smattering of Palm treos.
It's not my logic and you are missing the point my friend!
I'm not your friend (no offense) and it is your logic, from what I can tell. If it's not yours, whose is it!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple
I was not the one that used the word "dictatorial"! Just repeating it. So it is not my philosophy, it's someone else.
Doesn't matter who used the word first, you did use in your complaint. Let me reacquaint you with your own words:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple
And you said, "with the ability to add just about anything else as demand requires?"
The iPhone has the full feature set that Apple deems it should have. Take copy and paste and how the masses moaned that it was a feature found on other smart phones, and should have been in Apple's first iPhone build? However, Apple has informed us that it is low on THEIR priority list! Is that not a little dictatorial?
[CENTER]Hold down the caps key scroll over the text to be copied and
click the trackball. The option to copy will come up select it
Move to where you wamt to paste and click on the trackball
Paste![/CENTER]
Just replace "trackball" with "Home Button"!
Camera upgrade in the second iPhone build? - nope! 2 mega pixel and the basic camera funtionality is good enough for you according to Apple!
User replaceable battery? Apple says no, it ruins the streamline aesthetics of the iPhone!
So Apple can be a lot "dictatorial" by way of determining what will be, will be.
I understand that you used another person's argument about copy/paste to back up your demand for copy/paste. You went on to augment that argument with your own like-minded thoughts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple
Man, now I know what Rush Limbaugh goes through when he reads what others have written or has been quoted as saying what others said first and it gets implied that he, Rush, is the original source! Not so, just the messenger of the lead-ins to the stories. Gripe at him for his commentary afterwards but for not starting the conversation by pointing out what's been written or said. Jeesh!
So you're trying to guilt me now for your nonsensical argument?
(As for Rush, being the propagator of hate speech doesn't make him much better than the originators of said hate speech. Come on now.)
Sorry, 53, now go back and read it again. It has a definition of the word FULL, and the word FEATURE.
That's not a real definition. You can't take two separate words and use the dictionary for each, put them together as though there is no real world understanding.
That's what you did.
You are taking the word "full" to mean that a definition of full featured is impossible to meet in the real world, because no product ever produced could ever hope to meet the definition as you are using it.
Therefor, it isn't a real definition. And actually, you didn't even give a definition of the term. You just used each work by itself.
Essentially, you're making up your own definition without really working to define a real one, which is what I asked you to do.
What you did is a cop out.
It's why I said that going by your apparent definition (which isn't real), then any product that didn't have all features, both real and imagined, couldn't be called full featured. As many products are described that way, by your lights, none of them should be.
That's why it's hard to take what you're saying seriously.
It's like saying "full figured" to describe a woman. Most people would agree on what that means, but a few won't. It's the few who are out of the ball park, not the majority.
Quote:
But is it fully implemented?, no, so Daniel was wrong in saying it is a full featured phone, it isn't. If you can accept it too bad.
And that's an example of your wrongness in this. Where do you draw the line?
That's not a real definition. You can't take two separate words and use the dictionary for each, put them together as though there is no real world understanding.
What? That is the way it works I'm afraid.
full wagon - the wagon has no more capacity, not there appears to be a wagon there, which is good enough for us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
You are taking the word "full" to mean that a definition of full featured is impossible to meet in the real world, because no product ever produced could ever hope to meet the definition as you are using it.
No, I am taking the definition for what it is, you are the one having the problem with it.
The article that was posted on AI, mentioned a full featured device, you can either take that to mean one of two things.
1. The device has a complete set of features
2. The features the device has are fully implemented.
If Daniel was correct (which I don't believe he is) in his assertion of the iPhone being full featured, which one was he referring to? Choose carefully, as the iPhone does not meet either definition
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
It's why I said that going by your apparent definition (which isn't real), then any product that didn't have all features, both real and imagined, couldn't be called full featured. As many products are described that way, by your lights, none of them should be.
See, there is your issue, I am not talking about another other device, in fact my complaint is not even about the iPhone, I am talking about an article that was published on AI, an article that contains false information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
That's why it's hard to take what you're saying seriously.
I don't care how you take it, I know I am correct.
I concur, mostly what I see in NYC are iPhones and BlackBerry's. I do see some old Palm Treos and some old T-Mobile Sidekicks.
I think the Treo is giving way to iPhone and Blackberry, while the Sidekick is giving way to the Blackberry Pearl.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Most smartphones I see are on the NYC subway, and in the hands of the parents and students of my daughters high school. Mostly iPhones and Blackberry's, with a smattering of Palm treos.
full wagon - the wagon has no more capacity, not there appears to be a wagon there, which is good enough for us.
So a water balloon is a balloon made out of water? Hot sauce is sauce at high temperature? Ice cream is cream made from ice or is it ice made from cream!!??
There, three examples how that logic doesn't work. You only need one differing example to disprove a point like that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning
I don't care how you take it, I know I am correct.
Well, that's one of us. Also explains why you refuse to be rational.
full wagon - the wagon has no more capacity, not there appears to be a wagon there, which is good enough for us.
No, I am taking the definition for what it is, you are the one having the problem with it.
The article that was posted on AI, mentioned a full featured device, you can either take that to mean one of two things.
1. The device has a complete set of features
2. The features the device has are fully implemented.
If Daniel was correct (which I don't believe he is) in his assertion of the iPhone being full featured, which one was he referring to? Choose carefully, as the iPhone does not meet either definition
See, there is your issue, I am not talking about another other device, in fact my complaint is not even about the iPhone, I am talking about an article that was published on AI, an article that contains false information.
I don't care how you take it, I know I am correct.
This reminds me for some reason of the plight the US automakers are having right now. They became too complacent with themselves thinking they had the product for all the times. Now they are stuck with products no one wants.
The smartphone makers are in the same boat. They had stagnant products and it took a new player to the scene to really make them look bad. I have no pity for them.
You may be afraid, but that's not the way it works.
There are subtle differences between words used alone, and idiomatic expressions that include them. Full featured is one of those expressions that everyone (almost, it seems) understands.
Quote:
full wagon - the wagon has no more capacity, not there appears to be a wagon there, which is good enough for us.
That's not an ideomatic expression.
What we're talking about is like the difference between the "letter of the law" and the "spirit of the law.".
The letter is simply the written legality, but the spirit goes further. It's what the law was intended to accomplish.
That's what expressions such as full featured mean, they're more like the spirit than the letter.
Your example is a simple sentence describing a situation which no one here would disagree with.
Quote:
No, I am taking the definition for what it is, you are the one having the problem with it.
That's the problem. You're about the only one here who sees it that way.
Quote:
The article that was posted on AI, mentioned a full featured device, you can either take that to mean one of two things.
1. The device has a complete set of features
2. The features the device has are fully implemented.
If Daniel was correct (which I don't believe he is) in his assertion of the iPhone being full featured, which one was he referring to? Choose carefully, as the iPhone does not meet either definition
If, as most people would, you considered a full featured phone to mean that it has the characteristics that smartphones would have in general, then, yes, #1 would fit.
What you are talking about are details within each feature set.
Quote:
See, there is your issue, I am not talking about another other device, in fact my complaint is not even about the iPhone, I am talking about an article that was published on AI, an article that contains false information.
You consider it to be false, but most here don't agree.
Quote:
I don't care how you take it, I know I am correct.
Well, well, now who has hubris?
You can say that you think you are correct. You don't know that you are.
Comments
One thing I've noticed that's definitely a result of increased smartphone demand is that almost every non-smartphone commercial now prominently advertises the phone's "full qwerty keyboard."
Hmm, I don't see people wanting to talk on a bulkier, more expensive toy laptop.
Hmmmm, most of the smart phones I see are at Starbucks or Panera. The largest % of folks I see still use plain ole flip phones. Heck, I still use a snicker-style phone and have no desire to upgrade. If I want the internet I use a laptop. If I want a palm-sized-ISH device for portable internet I would rather have a small, but complete, tablet device that can act as a full computer, not a dumbed-down handheld.
When I can buy an iPod Touch/iPhone and pair it with a bluetooth keyboard so that I can take notes in class as if I had a laptop then Apple will get my money.
Hmmmm, most of the smart phones I see are at Starbucks or Panera. The largest % of folks I see still use plain ole flip phones. Heck, I still use a snicker-style phone and have no desire to upgrade. If I want the internet I use a laptop. If I want a palm-sized-ISH device for portable internet I would rather have a small, but complete, tablet device that can act as a full computer, not a dumbed-down handheld.
When I can buy an iPod Touch/iPhone and pair it with a bluetooth keyboard so that I can take notes in class as if I had a laptop then Apple will get my money.
Most smartphones I see are on the NYC subway, and in the hands of the parents and students of my daughters high school. Mostly iPhones and Blackberry's, with a smattering of Palm treos.
It has Bluetooth. That means it has the feature. It doesn't have to support every aspect of the feature.
What features does it support? Isn't it just the earbud headset connection? I don't think Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR is necessary for that.
Where in post 67 did you give a definition? That was a post by me responding to you.
Sorry, 53, now go back and read it again. It has a definition of the word FULL, and the word FEATURE.
It has Bluetooth. That means it has the feature. It doesn't have to support every aspect of the feature.
But is it fully implemented?, no, so Daniel was wrong in saying it is a full featured phone, it isn't. If you can accept it too bad.
What features does it support? Isn't it just the earbud headset connection? I don't think Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR is necessary for that.
It isn't required.
It's not my logic and you are missing the point my friend!
I'm not your friend (no offense) and it is your logic, from what I can tell. If it's not yours, whose is it!?
I was not the one that used the word "dictatorial"! Just repeating it. So it is not my philosophy, it's someone else.
Doesn't matter who used the word first, you did use in your complaint. Let me reacquaint you with your own words:
And you said, "with the ability to add just about anything else as demand requires?"
The iPhone has the full feature set that Apple deems it should have. Take copy and paste and how the masses moaned that it was a feature found on other smart phones, and should have been in Apple's first iPhone build? However, Apple has informed us that it is low on THEIR priority list! Is that not a little dictatorial?
If it is difficult for Apple's iPhone to have "copy and paste" functionality? Well, copy the Bold 9000 series. http://supportforums.blackberry.com/...thread.id=5531
[CENTER]Hold down the caps key scroll over the text to be copied and
click the trackball. The option to copy will come up select it
Move to where you wamt to paste and click on the trackball
Paste![/CENTER]
Just replace "trackball" with "Home Button"!
Camera upgrade in the second iPhone build? - nope! 2 mega pixel and the basic camera funtionality is good enough for you according to Apple!
User replaceable battery? Apple says no, it ruins the streamline aesthetics of the iPhone!
So Apple can be a lot "dictatorial" by way of determining what will be, will be.
I understand that you used another person's argument about copy/paste to back up your demand for copy/paste. You went on to augment that argument with your own like-minded thoughts.
Man, now I know what Rush Limbaugh goes through when he reads what others have written or has been quoted as saying what others said first and it gets implied that he, Rush, is the original source! Not so, just the messenger of the lead-ins to the stories. Gripe at him for his commentary afterwards but for not starting the conversation by pointing out what's been written or said. Jeesh!
So you're trying to guilt me now for your nonsensical argument?
(As for Rush, being the propagator of hate speech doesn't make him much better than the originators of said hate speech. Come on now.)
Sorry, 53, now go back and read it again. It has a definition of the word FULL, and the word FEATURE.
That's not a real definition. You can't take two separate words and use the dictionary for each, put them together as though there is no real world understanding.
That's what you did.
You are taking the word "full" to mean that a definition of full featured is impossible to meet in the real world, because no product ever produced could ever hope to meet the definition as you are using it.
Therefor, it isn't a real definition. And actually, you didn't even give a definition of the term. You just used each work by itself.
Essentially, you're making up your own definition without really working to define a real one, which is what I asked you to do.
What you did is a cop out.
It's why I said that going by your apparent definition (which isn't real), then any product that didn't have all features, both real and imagined, couldn't be called full featured. As many products are described that way, by your lights, none of them should be.
That's why it's hard to take what you're saying seriously.
It's like saying "full figured" to describe a woman. Most people would agree on what that means, but a few won't. It's the few who are out of the ball park, not the majority.
But is it fully implemented?, no, so Daniel was wrong in saying it is a full featured phone, it isn't. If you can accept it too bad.
And that's an example of your wrongness in this. Where do you draw the line?
http://fora.tv/2008/07/07/Walt_Mossb...the_Cell_Phone
Quotes:
"The iPhone is the first hand-held computer that happens to make voice calls."
"The iPhone is the first hand-held computer that has a PC grade operating system."
"The user interface does not attempt to mimic the PC."
There's much, much more. Mossberg's talk was given in July, but product developments that he forecast then are coming to market today.
That's not a real definition. You can't take two separate words and use the dictionary for each, put them together as though there is no real world understanding.
What? That is the way it works I'm afraid.
full wagon - the wagon has no more capacity, not there appears to be a wagon there, which is good enough for us.
You are taking the word "full" to mean that a definition of full featured is impossible to meet in the real world, because no product ever produced could ever hope to meet the definition as you are using it.
No, I am taking the definition for what it is, you are the one having the problem with it.
The article that was posted on AI, mentioned a full featured device, you can either take that to mean one of two things.
1. The device has a complete set of features
2. The features the device has are fully implemented.
If Daniel was correct (which I don't believe he is) in his assertion of the iPhone being full featured, which one was he referring to? Choose carefully, as the iPhone does not meet either definition
It's why I said that going by your apparent definition (which isn't real), then any product that didn't have all features, both real and imagined, couldn't be called full featured. As many products are described that way, by your lights, none of them should be.
See, there is your issue, I am not talking about another other device, in fact my complaint is not even about the iPhone, I am talking about an article that was published on AI, an article that contains false information.
That's why it's hard to take what you're saying seriously.
I don't care how you take it, I know I am correct.
I think the Treo is giving way to iPhone and Blackberry, while the Sidekick is giving way to the Blackberry Pearl.
Most smartphones I see are on the NYC subway, and in the hands of the parents and students of my daughters high school. Mostly iPhones and Blackberry's, with a smattering of Palm treos.
What? That is the way it works I'm afraid.
full wagon - the wagon has no more capacity, not there appears to be a wagon there, which is good enough for us.
So a water balloon is a balloon made out of water? Hot sauce is sauce at high temperature? Ice cream is cream made from ice or is it ice made from cream!!??
There, three examples how that logic doesn't work. You only need one differing example to disprove a point like that.
I don't care how you take it, I know I am correct.
Well, that's one of us. Also explains why you refuse to be rational.
Would you all drop the "fully featured" argument? It's just semantics.
One person's feature is another person's garbage.
I think "highly functional" is a better description of the class of device they are referring to.
What? That is the way it works I'm afraid.
full wagon - the wagon has no more capacity, not there appears to be a wagon there, which is good enough for us.
No, I am taking the definition for what it is, you are the one having the problem with it.
The article that was posted on AI, mentioned a full featured device, you can either take that to mean one of two things.
1. The device has a complete set of features
2. The features the device has are fully implemented.
If Daniel was correct (which I don't believe he is) in his assertion of the iPhone being full featured, which one was he referring to? Choose carefully, as the iPhone does not meet either definition
See, there is your issue, I am not talking about another other device, in fact my complaint is not even about the iPhone, I am talking about an article that was published on AI, an article that contains false information.
I don't care how you take it, I know I am correct.
I am sorry but you are not correct. Based on this definition from PC Magazine.
Lets hope all smartphones except the iphone goes to hell.
Let's hope other companies give Apple some healthy competition to keep the iPhone on the cutting-edge of both features and price.
The smartphone makers are in the same boat. They had stagnant products and it took a new player to the scene to really make them look bad. I have no pity for them.
What? That is the way it works I'm afraid.
You may be afraid, but that's not the way it works.
There are subtle differences between words used alone, and idiomatic expressions that include them. Full featured is one of those expressions that everyone (almost, it seems) understands.
full wagon - the wagon has no more capacity, not there appears to be a wagon there, which is good enough for us.
That's not an ideomatic expression.
What we're talking about is like the difference between the "letter of the law" and the "spirit of the law.".
The letter is simply the written legality, but the spirit goes further. It's what the law was intended to accomplish.
That's what expressions such as full featured mean, they're more like the spirit than the letter.
Your example is a simple sentence describing a situation which no one here would disagree with.
No, I am taking the definition for what it is, you are the one having the problem with it.
That's the problem. You're about the only one here who sees it that way.
The article that was posted on AI, mentioned a full featured device, you can either take that to mean one of two things.
1. The device has a complete set of features
2. The features the device has are fully implemented.
If Daniel was correct (which I don't believe he is) in his assertion of the iPhone being full featured, which one was he referring to? Choose carefully, as the iPhone does not meet either definition
If, as most people would, you considered a full featured phone to mean that it has the characteristics that smartphones would have in general, then, yes, #1 would fit.
What you are talking about are details within each feature set.
See, there is your issue, I am not talking about another other device, in fact my complaint is not even about the iPhone, I am talking about an article that was published on AI, an article that contains false information.
You consider it to be false, but most here don't agree.
I don't care how you take it, I know I am correct.
Well, well, now who has hubris?
You can say that you think you are correct. You don't know that you are.
I concur, mostly what I see in NYC are iPhones and BlackBerry's. I do see some old Palm Treos and some old T-Mobile Sidekicks.
I think the Treo is giving way to iPhone and Blackberry, while the Sidekick is giving way to the Blackberry Pearl.
It's funny, but like the Zune, I only see a Win Mobile phone once in a rare while.
I think "highly functional" is a better description of the class of device they are referring to.
Yes, a much better description.
We can just shorten that to an HF phone.
Then we can stop the arguments, I hope.
I am sorry but you are not correct. Based on this definition from PC Magazine.
That's the way it is accepted.