It doesnt matter though, I cant wait to see how this product will look cause Dell current XPS and XPS Studio line design, doesnt look its capable to be thin enough to be thinner then the MBA. Lets see Dell new design and I wonder how long it will last.
Dell notebooks are known not to last very long and will look horrible after 4-5 years with everyday usage that is.
Actually, I've owned laptops and desktops from many different manufacturers, and oddly enough even with Dell's craptastic design (at least for budget models), they have been very reliable. My parents have an older XPS desktop from 5 years ago and it is still running perfectly with no issues. My current workhorse laptop is a 17" Inspiron that I've had for 3-4 years or so that I've used for 8+ hours daily, and I've had no problems with it.
Only true to an extent when you compare very high-end computers. Certain common items like the processor are universal, of course, but even components like RAM tend to be much cheaper and less reliable in your typical HP, Gateway, Dell. Motherboards are often custom-designed for the Apple computers and special capabilities are implemented well. What really sets the two apart, though, is the degree to which Apples are carefully designed and tested. You rarely see the same sort of reliability in another system. Buy your family members home-made computers and you'll start to see the difference here.
It's still all the same. None of these companies make thier own ram. It's all made in foundries. And often times the same brands are made side by side on the same tool sets in the same factory.
Motherboards in laptops are custom designed for pretty much everyone. And these are using generic nvidia chipsets which can be found in other notebooks. So while the layout may be custom the chips on the board are not.
I used Vista for over a year - not a single driver problem.
Now if you had a PC that was 5 years old... Yes, you would run into problems... I believe the same problem would run with the Mac OS!
I am on 10.5.6 and it may seem a bit more stable than Vista (although I never experienced the crashes people said... Mind you I buy new computers, so I didn't run into issues. My friend owns a Mac and he can't upgrade to Mac OS 10.5
Keep in mind folks, that I have been through countless hardware issues with Apple. Now this can happen with any computer - Mac or Windows, but the most hardware issues have been with Apple... Take it for what its worth - burnt pixels out of box, gradient displays and loud annoying hums from the fans. And yes PCs are noisy, but when the Mac is virtually silent and you hear these annoying hum noises... it can be hell in a quiet room... Google it...
"iMac gradient display issues" or "iMac humming noises"
I am not the only one folks...
Apple needs to build a better product if they want to charge a premium for outdated specs. Period.
Now I still like Apple, but I don't think they are that much better than PCs... Sorry. I paid $2300 CDN for my iMac. I expected better than that of a $500 PC.
Apple has more issues than Windows PCs? , which is why they always lead in reliability studies, right.
Just the same way that Microsoft is successful by letting people run Windows on any hardware?
Look at it this way... Apple have made a desirable OS. The only way to get that desirable OS is to buy their overpriced, locked down hardware. There are suckers out there who will fall for this, and gladly let Apple rip them off just to get OSX, which gives Apple the impression that they can continue as they are. On the other hand, there are many thousands more who are slightly wiser than this, and who realise the tactics Apple are using. If Apple want *my* business and *my* money, they are going to have to give *me* the product *I* want, not what they tell me I should have. If they don't, then I will just have to find some other way to use their product, which means they don't get any of my business or any of my money, but I still have the pleasure of using their product .
What I want is a reasonably priced laptop running OSX. Apple fail to provide me with the reasonably priced hardware, so I am also therefore disqualified from running OSX. However, I can easily get around being disqualified from running the OS, which ultimately means Apple gets nothing from me instead of the £70 or so I'd be prepared to pay for their OS.
So Apple should help our their competitors in this case Dell by licensing out their OSX to them, the only reason why Microsoft licenses Windows to Dell is because they don't compete with them.
As Apple's sales continue to rise with machines that cost over $1000. Where is the feel that they are not worth the value/performance?
The prices of components drop as they go from being cutting edge and new to older hardware. They newest components aren't cheap at all.
How do you really know Apple's margins are so much more outrageous than any one else's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archipellago
I don't think the high price is the issue per se, its the high price coupled with the now seemingly more common feeling that there is a lack of value/performance in the products.
the quality and performance is no longer there and as 'PC' and general component prices drop its harder to justify paying sometimes normally double the price just to run OSX.
doubly hard when you know that the actual margins on the products is massive! I guess some people just like to give iCon their cash.
However, I can easily get around being disqualified from running the OS, which ultimately means Apple gets nothing from me instead of the £70 or so I'd be prepared to pay for their OS.
Translation: "I can steal OS X which ultimately means Apple gets nothing from me instead of the £70 or so I'd be preparted to pay for their OS."
Sorry, but you are contradicting yourself. If you're prepared to pay £70 or so for OS X, then do it.
Why do you feel the need to come on this forum and tell us we are getting ripped off? Is it your money we are spending?
Why can't some of you get it through your thick heads that everybody is different and what you find value in is not what someone else finds value in. If you choose to buy your Dell or HP, go ahead, just don't expect everyone else to be doing the same. Millions are also happy to pay Apple's price.
Why do you feel the need to come on this forum and tell us we are getting ripped off? Is it your money we are spending?
Why can't some of you get it through your thick heads that everybody is different and what you find value in is not what someone else finds value in. If you choose to buy your Dell or HP, go ahead, just don't expect everyone else to be doing the same. Millions are also happy to pay Apple's price.
now then hot shot, you need to re-read what I posted...
If Dell comes up with a breakthrough design, then I'll all for it. But if their goal is to change the company's image using design, then that would involve a lot more than the occasional 'halo' product.
Honestly, Dell has made noises like this before. It's their way of getting the 'low-hanging fruit' (ie. People who already like the Dell brand and would be easily swayed by a good-looking product.)
As Apple's sales continue to rise with machines that cost over $1000. Where is the feel that they are not worth the value/performance?
The prices of components drop as they go from being cutting edge and new to older hardware. They newest components aren't cheap at all.
How do you really know Apple's margins are so much more outrageous than any one else's.
Apple's sales have risen on the back of iPod, a stable economy, the bad job MS did with Vista...at least initially and a tremendously clever and 'cool' ad campaign.
even now we speak about Apple and the cult of Mac and this amazing success when in truth they likely have less than 10% marketshare. It won't last unless Apple change.
The opportunity was there and Apple took it fair play to them.
on the margin side...
it has been documented on a thread on here or maybe at MR that Dell operate in the 6-8%range.
Apple computers are in the 30-35% range, iPhone at 55% and ipod in the mid 40's.
Oh really, what are you running on your PC? You've already implied it's OS X. Either I've misunderstood, it's "OS X" coded from the ground up by someone other than Apple, or you're just unwilling to admit to yourself that you're a thief. The option is there for you to pay Apple for OS X, you are not taking that opportunity but using OS X anyway. Shame on you.
Oh really, what are you running on your PC? You've already implied it's OS X. Either I've misunderstood, it's "OS X" coded from the ground up by someone other than Apple, or you're just unwilling to admit to yourself that you're a thief. The option is there for you to pay Apple for OS X, you are not taking that opportunity but using OS X anyway. Shame on you.
I will buy it when I can install and run it without having to hack it. Until then, Apple will not get penny from me. They aren't giving me anything, so I won't give them anythiing.
Comments
It doesnt matter though, I cant wait to see how this product will look cause Dell current XPS and XPS Studio line design, doesnt look its capable to be thin enough to be thinner then the MBA. Lets see Dell new design and I wonder how long it will last.
Dell notebooks are known not to last very long and will look horrible after 4-5 years with everyday usage that is.
Actually, I've owned laptops and desktops from many different manufacturers, and oddly enough even with Dell's craptastic design (at least for budget models), they have been very reliable. My parents have an older XPS desktop from 5 years ago and it is still running perfectly with no issues. My current workhorse laptop is a 17" Inspiron that I've had for 3-4 years or so that I've used for 8+ hours daily, and I've had no problems with it.
Only true to an extent when you compare very high-end computers. Certain common items like the processor are universal, of course, but even components like RAM tend to be much cheaper and less reliable in your typical HP, Gateway, Dell. Motherboards are often custom-designed for the Apple computers and special capabilities are implemented well. What really sets the two apart, though, is the degree to which Apples are carefully designed and tested. You rarely see the same sort of reliability in another system. Buy your family members home-made computers and you'll start to see the difference here.
It's still all the same. None of these companies make thier own ram. It's all made in foundries. And often times the same brands are made side by side on the same tool sets in the same factory.
Motherboards in laptops are custom designed for pretty much everyone. And these are using generic nvidia chipsets which can be found in other notebooks. So while the layout may be custom the chips on the board are not.
It's funny all this talk...
I used Vista for over a year - not a single driver problem.
Now if you had a PC that was 5 years old... Yes, you would run into problems... I believe the same problem would run with the Mac OS!
I am on 10.5.6 and it may seem a bit more stable than Vista (although I never experienced the crashes people said... Mind you I buy new computers, so I didn't run into issues. My friend owns a Mac and he can't upgrade to Mac OS 10.5
Keep in mind folks, that I have been through countless hardware issues with Apple. Now this can happen with any computer - Mac or Windows, but the most hardware issues have been with Apple... Take it for what its worth - burnt pixels out of box, gradient displays and loud annoying hums from the fans. And yes PCs are noisy, but when the Mac is virtually silent and you hear these annoying hum noises... it can be hell in a quiet room... Google it...
"iMac gradient display issues" or "iMac humming noises"
I am not the only one folks...
Apple needs to build a better product if they want to charge a premium for outdated specs. Period.
Now I still like Apple, but I don't think they are that much better than PCs... Sorry. I paid $2300 CDN for my iMac. I expected better than that of a $500 PC.
Apple has more issues than Windows PCs? , which is why they always lead in reliability studies, right.
Just the same way that Microsoft is successful by letting people run Windows on any hardware?
Look at it this way... Apple have made a desirable OS. The only way to get that desirable OS is to buy their overpriced, locked down hardware. There are suckers out there who will fall for this, and gladly let Apple rip them off just to get OSX, which gives Apple the impression that they can continue as they are. On the other hand, there are many thousands more who are slightly wiser than this, and who realise the tactics Apple are using. If Apple want *my* business and *my* money, they are going to have to give *me* the product *I* want, not what they tell me I should have. If they don't, then I will just have to find some other way to use their product, which means they don't get any of my business or any of my money, but I still have the pleasure of using their product
What I want is a reasonably priced laptop running OSX. Apple fail to provide me with the reasonably priced hardware, so I am also therefore disqualified from running OSX. However, I can easily get around being disqualified from running the OS, which ultimately means Apple gets nothing from me instead of the £70 or so I'd be prepared to pay for their OS.
So Apple should help our their competitors in this case Dell by licensing out their OSX to them, the only reason why Microsoft licenses Windows to Dell is because they don't compete with them.
Right and people who buy laptops are concerned about the margins the company is making on the sale.
as has been said lower down this thread....
a rip off is a rip off.
If you are happy with that, cool....
millions aren't.
Apple has more issues than Windows PCs, which is why they always lead in reliability studies, right.
apple devotees don't always tell the truth.
the chief high priest of the church of apple allows no blasphemy.
The prices of components drop as they go from being cutting edge and new to older hardware. They newest components aren't cheap at all.
How do you really know Apple's margins are so much more outrageous than any one else's.
I don't think the high price is the issue per se, its the high price coupled with the now seemingly more common feeling that there is a lack of value/performance in the products.
the quality and performance is no longer there and as 'PC' and general component prices drop its harder to justify paying sometimes normally double the price just to run OSX.
doubly hard when you know that the actual margins on the products is massive! I guess some people just like to give iCon their cash.
the chief high priest of the church of apple allows no blasphemy.
However, I can easily get around being disqualified from running the OS, which ultimately means Apple gets nothing from me instead of the £70 or so I'd be prepared to pay for their OS.
Translation: "I can steal OS X which ultimately means Apple gets nothing from me instead of the £70 or so I'd be preparted to pay for their OS."
Sorry, but you are contradicting yourself. If you're prepared to pay £70 or so for OS X, then do it.
as has been said lower down this thread....
a rip off is a rip off.
If you are happy with that, cool....
millions aren't.
What the heck do you mean by rip off?
Why do you feel the need to come on this forum and tell us we are getting ripped off? Is it your money we are spending?
Why can't some of you get it through your thick heads that everybody is different and what you find value in is not what someone else finds value in. If you choose to buy your Dell or HP, go ahead, just don't expect everyone else to be doing the same. Millions are also happy to pay Apple's price.
apple devotees don't always tell the truth.
the chief high priest of the church of apple allows no blasphemy.
Lame, come up with something else.
If the MacBook Air was at all a large seller (I often forget it is a current model) I'd be concerned.
You might want to check Apple's comments about the Air... Or just check out Apple's homepage to see its ranking in the top sellers list.
It has sold quite well.
What the heck do you mean by rip off?
Why do you feel the need to come on this forum and tell us we are getting ripped off? Is it your money we are spending?
Why can't some of you get it through your thick heads that everybody is different and what you find value in is not what someone else finds value in. If you choose to buy your Dell or HP, go ahead, just don't expect everyone else to be doing the same. Millions are also happy to pay Apple's price.
now then hot shot, you need to re-read what I posted...
here's a hint...
If you are happy with that, cool....
yes everyone is different....you've proved that !
Translation: "I can steal OS X which ultimately means Apple gets nothing from me instead of the £70 or so I'd be preparted to pay for their OS."
Sorry, but you are contradicting yourself. If you're prepared to pay £70 or so for OS X, then do it.
I would, but I can't run that on my PC.
as has been said lower down this thread....
a rip off is a rip off.
If you are happy with that, cool....
millions aren't.
That's why they buy Macs instead of PCs!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvatore_Adamo
Anyway...
If Dell comes up with a breakthrough design, then I'll all for it. But if their goal is to change the company's image using design, then that would involve a lot more than the occasional 'halo' product.
Honestly, Dell has made noises like this before. It's their way of getting the 'low-hanging fruit' (ie. People who already like the Dell brand and would be easily swayed by a good-looking product.)
As Apple's sales continue to rise with machines that cost over $1000. Where is the feel that they are not worth the value/performance?
The prices of components drop as they go from being cutting edge and new to older hardware. They newest components aren't cheap at all.
How do you really know Apple's margins are so much more outrageous than any one else's.
Apple's sales have risen on the back of iPod, a stable economy, the bad job MS did with Vista...at least initially and a tremendously clever and 'cool' ad campaign.
even now we speak about Apple and the cult of Mac and this amazing success when in truth they likely have less than 10% marketshare. It won't last unless Apple change.
The opportunity was there and Apple took it fair play to them.
on the margin side...
it has been documented on a thread on here or maybe at MR that Dell operate in the 6-8%range.
Apple computers are in the 30-35% range, iPhone at 55% and ipod in the mid 40's.
I would, but I can't run that on my PC.
Oh really, what are you running on your PC? You've already implied it's OS X. Either I've misunderstood, it's "OS X" coded from the ground up by someone other than Apple, or you're just unwilling to admit to yourself that you're a thief. The option is there for you to pay Apple for OS X, you are not taking that opportunity but using OS X anyway. Shame on you.
How can we have a productive discussion with that type of attitude.
it was meant to be tongue in cheek....
but your reply adds validity to it and your laughing mate below!
Oh really, what are you running on your PC? You've already implied it's OS X. Either I've misunderstood, it's "OS X" coded from the ground up by someone other than Apple, or you're just unwilling to admit to yourself that you're a thief. The option is there for you to pay Apple for OS X, you are not taking that opportunity but using OS X anyway. Shame on you.
I will buy it when I can install and run it without having to hack it. Until then, Apple will not get penny from me. They aren't giving me anything, so I won't give them anythiing.