But you know people are just going to look at a spec sheet and see faster processor, more RAM, bigger hard drive, bigger screen, dedicated graphics, less money and agree that he made the right choice.
It is only by comparing everything, and by that I mean EVERY sINGLE THING, that you can possibly compare a Mac and a PC.
Then there is software, and M$ sucks big time here. That is why they are advertising HP: they can't compete with Apple on the software.
I'm not sure how people will take this. I'm completely aware that the people MS has been putting in these commercials are not "savvy" on any level. I'm also aware that MS has been targeting laptops and not PCs. This being said, any computer builder will tell you that you can reach higher specs with a PC than you can with a MAC. Just because these two people don't know what they are buying doesn't mean there isn't quality product out there. Apple makes a great product for people who don't know anything about computers. Apple makes a great product for the type of person MS is trying to portray in these commercials.
The reality though.... Apple is a package, and a very nice one at that. PCs are more dynamic and fluid. They can run Linux or Windows or yes...... even Leopard if hacked correctly(I know you all hate me now).
Bottom line- PCs are better if you know what your doing and need power and versatility. MACs are great for beginners and people who want something that never has issues. Honestly to argue this point is to show you don't get it. They are both great for different purposes...but I say Hackintosh all the way.
With a 10% market share arguing that a Mac is better than a PC is a pretty lame argument.
Check your history. Apple was perfectly fine until a Ballmer-like mind sick person named Sculley managed to throw Jobs out of the play. Windows came, Apple nearly died, and when Jobs returned, Apple started to turn the tables.
Apple will beat M$. Just wait.
Besides, by your logic a random Ford would be better than a BWM due to its greater market share.
I am not sure what was worse, the commercial or AI's critique?
So much time was spent talking about differences in memory speeds, which probably don't have a huge affect on performance, but AI conveniently ignored the fact that the HP has a dedicated GPU. The GPU could have a substantially bigger impact on performance depending on how the machine is used.
Can't argue about the low pixel density on the screen. Although I will say many will see that as advantage because it makes the screen much easier to read. But at least this machine has some options in that regard. Does the MacBook?
And what about the HP's firewire port, express card slot, HDMI out and, from what I can tell from their web site, an optical drive with Blu-ray capability? Don't see those on the MacBook anywhere.
-kpluck
No gpu on a current macbook?
Do tell.
As for the screen, sure - you can make the macbook more readble, just lower the resolution effectively loweing the ppi and making it more "readable".
ExpressCard? Not sure I ever met anyone who actually used it. HDMI? Adapter. Blu-Ray? He didn't get it on the HP. For what? So you can watch an HD movie on your 16" screen? You'll like it a lot more on an LCD TV for better value.
One other thing. MACS are PCs that run leopard. MACs essentially have been PCs ever since INTEL came on board(AMD is better for the price). That coupled with the fact that you can run Leopard on a PC(albeit a proper configuration) just means that MAC is essentially a mid range PC that looks really cool and runs a very nice operating system. It's still a PC though. You guys love a brand. It's a great brand but it's still a brand.
Most PC users are running programs that Mac simply doesn't have. I.E.- Anything from Autodesk. You know, the programs that probably designed the building you're sitting in.
Autodesk actually does quite a great deal more than that. But, you know what their IT department has been pushing on non-programmers? Macs, with VMWare Fusion. W
I myself am an architect, and at one firm we used Mac Pros. Autodesk's software is frustrating enough without XP, and it was so much better to handle every other office function in OS X. Some firms use ArchiCAD, which is native and only slightly inferior to Revit. So, yeah, nice shame trip.
I am a staunch PC user, and I don't agree with this ad. It's total marketing BS to me. It's spec-sheet smoke-and-mirrors.
The next ad will be from an on-the-go user who's looking for an ultra portable. They will compare a netbook to a Macbook Air. (Spoiler: The netbook wins.)
Interesting post and comparison! The only point I miss is that this should be an ad made from HP which makes the hardware, not Microsoft which makes the OS.
MS is implicitly stating their OS doesn't play any role in the choice of a PC, whereas it all comes down to price and HW performance.
For a company that only makes software this is a dangerous path, in my opinion.
Moreover.. Isn't HP the company which is evaluating (according to some rumors) the adoption of Android for their netbooks??
I think the ad is interesting, but on the other hand I also think:
- this looks much more like an HP ad than Microsoft ad
- no mention about software whatsoever
- all the "interviewed" people WOULD LIKE TO BUY a Mac but, basically, cannot afford one (yet).
As much as I like it, there is actually not much value placed in software from the part of Microsoft.
My guess is - every new ad from this series will address different user profile, and each will make comparison with Macs regarding that user profile needs. While it will be easy to make a point for gamers, maybe CAD/3D animation users, some/most of the others will be based on price and Apple's limited choice of hardware. Safe bet.
Once again I dunno why Apple Insider keep pushing its misleading and utterly false "counter-propaganda", and its audience keep lying to themselves/being in denial, what's the point? See kpluck, randomdude post, etc...
Quote:
Originally Posted by EndoFallTime
All hardware that works on a PC, works on a Mac and usually with less issues.
Oh jeez, epic fail...
Your sentence is completely false, I can only guess that you have mistakenly interchanged the two names, factually starting on the hardware compatibility side...
Check your history. Apple was perfectly fine until a Ballmer-like mind sick person named Sculley managed to throw Jobs out of the play. Windows came, Apple nearly died, and when Jobs returned, Apple started to turn the tables.
Apple will beat M$. Just wait.
Besides, by your logic a random Ford would be better than a BWM due to its greater market share.
just so you know, BMW's along with most european cars, are some of the worst cars in reliability. far behind that of american cars, and even further behind that of Japanese cars.
why is it that this site has so many people that dont understand cars, using analogies with cars?
I laugh when Apple fanboys tell me that Apple hardware is better, what a f*cking joke. Apple doesn't make the processor, nor does Apple make the hard drive, nor does Apple make the optical disc drive, nor does Apple make the RAM. The Microsoft computers have lots of components that are IDENTICAL as the Apple computers...and only FOOLS believe otherwise.
----
Of course the software doesn't matter?
It might be smart for Microsoft to attack Apple on price. Apple lost it's market domination to the PC because the PC was perceived as cheaper. If Microsoft can create that perception, it should help Microsoft sale, just like the untrue perception that Walmart is cheaper then Target on the same products that resulted from Target's slick ads.
Folks, all this arguing about hardware specs is besides the point.. Hardware is not the issue as to why people buy a Mac vs. a PC. People switching from PC to Mac are doing so because they are tired of hassling with Windows and it's shortcomings.
People buy a Mac for the user experience, plain and simple. And no matter how hard MS tries to compete with prices and specs on paper, they simply can not match the user experience of using a Mac.. OSX and the integration of the iLife apps and Apple's mobile devices is unmatched by anyone.
So while you're bitching about prices and specs, show me one example of where Microsoft have created a better user experience than Apple in ANY of the software they make..
No, no it's not. It's included as part of your Mac purchase, but any major updates require payment. It's reasonably priced, partly because it's there to get you to use Macs which means you are buying their machines. iTunes was once part of iLife, which made no sense to me since it was so easily downloadable, but that does not make iLife free.
Quote:
so is Open Office-available for all. For that matter, it's widely known, at least outside of the Mac circle, that one can find open source apps for nearly all your needs on your PC. So I'd advise looking for another argument than the software niche.
OOo is free and it's okay for a free app but it is not a great solution for any heavy work. You are also correct that there are many free apps available, but free does not always mean better, in fact it usually means worse for the average person as there is no accountability. Of course there are free apps that are great and have good support but they supported by other things like HW sales, so they aren't really free.
Quote:
I went into an apple store on the Central Coast in California, looked at a macbook air, and asked the salesguy, "why does one macbook air have flash memory for storage, and the other have a hard drive?" He paused, looked at the spec sheets, said, "hmmm...that's a good queistion....I don't know."
I can't believe that someone would think that is a good question. They are different types of drives. if you need to explain the pros and cons of SSDs and HDDs I will more than happy to.
Quote:
We had actually gone into the apple store looking for a replacement battery for my wife's three year old G4 iBook; battery life is down to less than 10 minutes unplugged.
How many cycles does the battery have? Have you reset the battery? Was it on the recall list? These are things that I would have posted about my iBook battery before complaining that it on got a 10 minute charge. It might jsut be wear and tear, it might be part of a larger issue or it just might a flux. Apple, like almost almost all PC vendors doesn't produce its batteries, but it does warranty them. I've had a couple bad batteries over the years and they replaced them without question after I pointed out that they were bad, even well after my machine warranty was up. You should have Google the issue when you first noticed it.
Most PC users are running programs that Mac simply doesn't have. I.E.- Anything from Autodesk. You know, the programs that probably designed the building you're sitting in.
You're joking, right? Ever heard of Parallels and VMware? The firm I work at runs AutoCAD and Revit via Parallels, and it is every bit as fast and stable as running it on a PC (Until working at this firm I have only used PCs at work, so I have plenty of cross-platform experience). And from a networking standpoint, the macs are easier to deal with, especially with Time Capsule running. We all have iMacs, and they work just fine.
As for PCs running software I use, I have yet to see a Windows machine run Logic, so I have no use for them outside of the office.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinney57
The discussions of Mac vs PC really are pointless. What's more interesting is how these ads are polarising opinion in a way that hasn't happened for a while; hence the quite juvenile trolling going on here.
Honestly, the first thing that came to mind when this campaign started was political ads. That's really what it feels like. Personally, if anything I would hope we get a non-partisan fact check site, much like factcheck.org, to go through apple and MS's commercials, if for anything just to shut up the rabid fanboys.
That being said, I find it weird that the commercials never even mention the OS at all? Seems like an odd approach. And this is all from a company that used to laugh at the thought that Apple was a serious threat. Even if MS wins, it still looks uneasy and a little pathetic.
That being said, has anyone else noticed that they are dropping this campaign right in the middle of Conflicker madness?
Seems to me that configuration is almost as good as the 15in macbook pro that cost 2500 bucks.
That is the one with LCD with the highest color gamut of any display that Anandtech.com has tested (to date). Nice machine. Screen, graphics card and audio card should be better than 15" Macbook Pro. Battery is not stellar, but still - great package.
you asked the sales guy why does one MacbookAir have flash and another a regular HD? I'm not sure who the dummy is? you can't be serious with that question.
3 year old battery - get a grip, batteries don't last forever, they lose power over time.
yeeeesh!
Well, not every user browses the Internet searching for info on SSD...
On the other hand, sales guy should know; hype is Apple salesmen are much higher skilled than average Fry/Best Buy salesmen, but if guy could not answer that question...
Actually if Apple wanted to compete seriously with windows and start making serious margins they would release OSX for "PC".
I bet you some day it will happen(when they aren't making any money on the hardware end). There's no reason with a few tweaks from Apple it shouldn't run fine on any computer.
All they have to do is make it's compatibility better with AMD and accept support for IDE hard drives..... There obviously is more to it but nothing that couldn't be hammered out in a week.
I agree with you here. Everyone does not buy Apple on the 'sexy' bit, although it certainly helps get people interested in walking through the store doors.
I am OK with Microsoft advertising like this, but there is something not right about not mentioning their software AT ALL in any of the ads. Where software is Apple's greatest strength!
It's as if MS has colluded with all the PC makers and said 'Leave this with us guys, we'll get your market-share back on track'.
Hmmmm.
Well... it is not like Macs come with all the software you need. You still need some kind of Office (word processing at least) on both platforms. Many people here in forums stated they did not use iLife as they had higher requirements than home video/photo editing, so they went for Lightroom/Aperture/... and Final Cut/Premiere/... straight away. Having some software included is good starting point (or even complete solution for some) but hardly done deal for everyone.
With Open Office, Picasa... available for free, impact of included software is - from my point of view - even less significant. But I do agree point is still there, to some extend.
This is an extremely old argument, one that has been beaten to death, we've been over it a million times. There are many reasons why this would be a money loosing idea for Apple.
Did you really think you were the first to think of this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitz
Actually if Apple wanted to compete seriously with windows and start making serious margins they would release OSX for "PC".
I bet you some day it will happen(when they aren't making any money on the hardware end). There's no reason with a few tweaks from Apple it shouldn't run fine on any computer.
All they have to do is make it's compatibility better with AMD and accept support for IDE hard drives..... There obviously is more to it but nothing that couldn't be hammered out in a week.
Comments
But you know people are just going to look at a spec sheet and see faster processor, more RAM, bigger hard drive, bigger screen, dedicated graphics, less money and agree that he made the right choice.
It is only by comparing everything, and by that I mean EVERY sINGLE THING, that you can possibly compare a Mac and a PC.
Then there is software, and M$ sucks big time here. That is why they are advertising HP: they can't compete with Apple on the software.
The reality though.... Apple is a package, and a very nice one at that. PCs are more dynamic and fluid. They can run Linux or Windows or yes...... even Leopard if hacked correctly(I know you all hate me now).
Bottom line- PCs are better if you know what your doing and need power and versatility. MACs are great for beginners and people who want something that never has issues. Honestly to argue this point is to show you don't get it. They are both great for different purposes...but I say Hackintosh all the way.
With a 10% market share arguing that a Mac is better than a PC is a pretty lame argument.
Check your history. Apple was perfectly fine until a Ballmer-like mind sick person named Sculley managed to throw Jobs out of the play. Windows came, Apple nearly died, and when Jobs returned, Apple started to turn the tables.
Apple will beat M$. Just wait.
Besides, by your logic a random Ford would be better than a BWM due to its greater market share.
I am not sure what was worse, the commercial or AI's critique?
So much time was spent talking about differences in memory speeds, which probably don't have a huge affect on performance, but AI conveniently ignored the fact that the HP has a dedicated GPU. The GPU could have a substantially bigger impact on performance depending on how the machine is used.
Can't argue about the low pixel density on the screen. Although I will say many will see that as advantage because it makes the screen much easier to read. But at least this machine has some options in that regard. Does the MacBook?
And what about the HP's firewire port, express card slot, HDMI out and, from what I can tell from their web site, an optical drive with Blu-ray capability? Don't see those on the MacBook anywhere.
-kpluck
No gpu on a current macbook?
Do tell.
As for the screen, sure - you can make the macbook more readble, just lower the resolution effectively loweing the ppi and making it more "readable".
ExpressCard? Not sure I ever met anyone who actually used it. HDMI? Adapter. Blu-Ray? He didn't get it on the HP. For what? So you can watch an HD movie on your 16" screen? You'll like it a lot more on an LCD TV for better value.
Most PC users are running programs that Mac simply doesn't have. I.E.- Anything from Autodesk. You know, the programs that probably designed the building you're sitting in.
Autodesk actually does quite a great deal more than that. But, you know what their IT department has been pushing on non-programmers? Macs, with VMWare Fusion. W
I myself am an architect, and at one firm we used Mac Pros. Autodesk's software is frustrating enough without XP, and it was so much better to handle every other office function in OS X. Some firms use ArchiCAD, which is native and only slightly inferior to Revit. So, yeah, nice shame trip.
The next ad will be from an on-the-go user who's looking for an ultra portable. They will compare a netbook to a Macbook Air. (Spoiler: The netbook wins.)
- N
Interesting post and comparison! The only point I miss is that this should be an ad made from HP which makes the hardware, not Microsoft which makes the OS.
MS is implicitly stating their OS doesn't play any role in the choice of a PC, whereas it all comes down to price and HW performance.
For a company that only makes software this is a dangerous path, in my opinion.
Moreover.. Isn't HP the company which is evaluating (according to some rumors) the adoption of Android for their netbooks??
I think the ad is interesting, but on the other hand I also think:
- this looks much more like an HP ad than Microsoft ad
- no mention about software whatsoever
- all the "interviewed" people WOULD LIKE TO BUY a Mac but, basically, cannot afford one (yet).
As much as I like it, there is actually not much value placed in software from the part of Microsoft.
My guess is - every new ad from this series will address different user profile, and each will make comparison with Macs regarding that user profile needs. While it will be easy to make a point for gamers, maybe CAD/3D animation users, some/most of the others will be based on price and Apple's limited choice of hardware. Safe bet.
All hardware that works on a PC, works on a Mac and usually with less issues.
Oh jeez, epic fail...
Your sentence is completely false, I can only guess that you have mistakenly interchanged the two names, factually starting on the hardware compatibility side...
E.g.: just check the "awesome" hardware compatibility list over http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/HCL_10.5.6 just to have OSX running...
Dunno, in everybody else reality, Windows is maybe compatible with x100 or x1000 more hardware... Yep it is of this scale.
Check your history. Apple was perfectly fine until a Ballmer-like mind sick person named Sculley managed to throw Jobs out of the play. Windows came, Apple nearly died, and when Jobs returned, Apple started to turn the tables.
Apple will beat M$. Just wait.
Besides, by your logic a random Ford would be better than a BWM due to its greater market share.
just so you know, BMW's along with most european cars, are some of the worst cars in reliability. far behind that of american cars, and even further behind that of Japanese cars.
why is it that this site has so many people that dont understand cars, using analogies with cars?
Microsoft should easily be able to beat prices for 17" laptops.
Gateway, excellent price:
- http://www.gateway.com/systems/serie...pid=ms_pseries
- $849, $1299, $1799 (has Q9000 which is quad-core).
- They use to sell a laptop with 1920x1200 17" LCD display in models not listed above. I own one and it is much cheaper than any Apple 17" laptop.
Alienware, always kicks ass:
- http://www.alienware.com/products/m1...de=SKU-DEFAULT
HP and SONY have lots of great models too.
----
I laugh when Apple fanboys tell me that Apple hardware is better, what a f*cking joke. Apple doesn't make the processor, nor does Apple make the hard drive, nor does Apple make the optical disc drive, nor does Apple make the RAM. The Microsoft computers have lots of components that are IDENTICAL as the Apple computers...and only FOOLS believe otherwise.
----
Of course the software doesn't matter?
It might be smart for Microsoft to attack Apple on price. Apple lost it's market domination to the PC because the PC was perceived as cheaper. If Microsoft can create that perception, it should help Microsoft sale, just like the untrue perception that Walmart is cheaper then Target on the same products that resulted from Target's slick ads.
People buy a Mac for the user experience, plain and simple. And no matter how hard MS tries to compete with prices and specs on paper, they simply can not match the user experience of using a Mac.. OSX and the integration of the iLife apps and Apple's mobile devices is unmatched by anyone.
So while you're bitching about prices and specs, show me one example of where Microsoft have created a better user experience than Apple in ANY of the software they make..
That's right, there isn't one..
iLife is free
No, no it's not. It's included as part of your Mac purchase, but any major updates require payment. It's reasonably priced, partly because it's there to get you to use Macs which means you are buying their machines. iTunes was once part of iLife, which made no sense to me since it was so easily downloadable, but that does not make iLife free.
so is Open Office-available for all. For that matter, it's widely known, at least outside of the Mac circle, that one can find open source apps for nearly all your needs on your PC. So I'd advise looking for another argument than the software niche.
OOo is free and it's okay for a free app but it is not a great solution for any heavy work. You are also correct that there are many free apps available, but free does not always mean better, in fact it usually means worse for the average person as there is no accountability. Of course there are free apps that are great and have good support but they supported by other things like HW sales, so they aren't really free.
I went into an apple store on the Central Coast in California, looked at a macbook air, and asked the salesguy, "why does one macbook air have flash memory for storage, and the other have a hard drive?" He paused, looked at the spec sheets, said, "hmmm...that's a good queistion....I don't know."
I can't believe that someone would think that is a good question. They are different types of drives. if you need to explain the pros and cons of SSDs and HDDs I will more than happy to.
We had actually gone into the apple store looking for a replacement battery for my wife's three year old G4 iBook; battery life is down to less than 10 minutes unplugged.
How many cycles does the battery have? Have you reset the battery? Was it on the recall list? These are things that I would have posted about my iBook battery before complaining that it on got a 10 minute charge. It might jsut be wear and tear, it might be part of a larger issue or it just might a flux. Apple, like almost almost all PC vendors doesn't produce its batteries, but it does warranty them. I've had a couple bad batteries over the years and they replaced them without question after I pointed out that they were bad, even well after my machine warranty was up. You should have Google the issue when you first noticed it.
Most PC users are running programs that Mac simply doesn't have. I.E.- Anything from Autodesk. You know, the programs that probably designed the building you're sitting in.
You're joking, right? Ever heard of Parallels and VMware? The firm I work at runs AutoCAD and Revit via Parallels, and it is every bit as fast and stable as running it on a PC (Until working at this firm I have only used PCs at work, so I have plenty of cross-platform experience). And from a networking standpoint, the macs are easier to deal with, especially with Time Capsule running. We all have iMacs, and they work just fine.
As for PCs running software I use, I have yet to see a Windows machine run Logic, so I have no use for them outside of the office.
The discussions of Mac vs PC really are pointless. What's more interesting is how these ads are polarising opinion in a way that hasn't happened for a while; hence the quite juvenile trolling going on here.
Honestly, the first thing that came to mind when this campaign started was political ads. That's really what it feels like. Personally, if anything I would hope we get a non-partisan fact check site, much like factcheck.org, to go through apple and MS's commercials, if for anything just to shut up the rabid fanboys.
That being said, I find it weird that the commercials never even mention the OS at all? Seems like an odd approach. And this is all from a company that used to laugh at the thought that Apple was a serious threat. Even if MS wins, it still looks uneasy and a little pathetic.
That being said, has anyone else noticed that they are dropping this campaign right in the middle of Conflicker madness?
Studio XPS 16:
Intel® Core? 2 Duo P8700 (3MB cache/2.53GHz/1066Mhz FSB)
\t
LCD Panel:
Edge-to-Edge FullHD Widescreen 16.0 inch RGBLED LCD (1920x1080) W/2.0 MP
MEMORY:
4GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1067MHz (2 Dimms)
Hard Drive:
500GB 7200 RPM SATA Hard Drive
Video Card:
ATI Mobility RADEON® HD 3670 - 512MB
Sound Card:
ExpressCard Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio Sound Card
LCD and Camera:
Edge-to-Edge FullHD Widescreen 16.0 inch RGBLED LCD (1920x1080) W/2.0 MP
PRICE: $1599
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellsto...-studio-xps-16
Seems to me that configuration is almost as good as the 15in macbook pro that cost 2500 bucks.
That is the one with LCD with the highest color gamut of any display that Anandtech.com has tested (to date). Nice machine. Screen, graphics card and audio card should be better than 15" Macbook Pro. Battery is not stellar, but still - great package.
http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=3540
LOL!!!
you asked the sales guy why does one MacbookAir have flash and another a regular HD? I'm not sure who the dummy is? you can't be serious with that question.
3 year old battery - get a grip, batteries don't last forever, they lose power over time.
yeeeesh!
Well, not every user browses the Internet searching for info on SSD...
On the other hand, sales guy should know; hype is Apple salesmen are much higher skilled than average Fry/Best Buy salesmen, but if guy could not answer that question...
I bet you some day it will happen(when they aren't making any money on the hardware end). There's no reason with a few tweaks from Apple it shouldn't run fine on any computer.
All they have to do is make it's compatibility better with AMD and accept support for IDE hard drives..... There obviously is more to it but nothing that couldn't be hammered out in a week.
I agree with you here. Everyone does not buy Apple on the 'sexy' bit, although it certainly helps get people interested in walking through the store doors.
I am OK with Microsoft advertising like this, but there is something not right about not mentioning their software AT ALL in any of the ads. Where software is Apple's greatest strength!
It's as if MS has colluded with all the PC makers and said 'Leave this with us guys, we'll get your market-share back on track'.
Hmmmm.
Well... it is not like Macs come with all the software you need. You still need some kind of Office (word processing at least) on both platforms. Many people here in forums stated they did not use iLife as they had higher requirements than home video/photo editing, so they went for Lightroom/Aperture/... and Final Cut/Premiere/... straight away. Having some software included is good starting point (or even complete solution for some) but hardly done deal for everyone.
With Open Office, Picasa... available for free, impact of included software is - from my point of view - even less significant. But I do agree point is still there, to some extend.
Did you really think you were the first to think of this?
Actually if Apple wanted to compete seriously with windows and start making serious margins they would release OSX for "PC".
I bet you some day it will happen(when they aren't making any money on the hardware end). There's no reason with a few tweaks from Apple it shouldn't run fine on any computer.
All they have to do is make it's compatibility better with AMD and accept support for IDE hard drives..... There obviously is more to it but nothing that couldn't be hammered out in a week.