Actually if Apple wanted to compete seriously with windows and start making serious margins they would release OSX for "PC".
I bet you some day it will happen(when they aren't making any money on the hardware end). There's no reason with a few tweaks from Apple it shouldn't run fine on any computer.
All they have to do is make it's compatibility better with AMD and accept support for IDE hard drives..... There obviously is more to it but nothing that couldn't be hammered out in a week.
i would be very happy if they did this.
if they did this i would 1. not have to buy an overpriced all-in-one just to get OSX 2. would give MS a lot more competition/open peoples minds that there is more than just windows out there.
Not at all Tenobell, but I feel like alot of folks here are arguing on feeling as opposed to the reality of what they are arguing. They will someday release it as a standalone OS. As they continue to make the shift more towards having the innards of every other type of computer it's a nice backup plan for the day people realize MACs aren't special in any way outside the OS.
if they did this i would 1. not have to buy an overpriced all-in-one just to get OSX 2. would give MS a lot more competition/open peoples minds that there is more than just windows out there.
1) You don't have to buy an AIO to get OS X.
2) Having a higher marketshare does not equal more net profit.
You fail to see that supporting any and every HW option is not a simple task. It's one that MS still, with it's vast funds and long history of trying still hasn't gotten right. Remember the lack of driver support with XP x64 and Vista when they launched? You also fail to see that Apple would have to sell many more copies of the OS X to equal the cost of one Mac or that Apple is, in regards to it's financial focus, a hardware company competing with higher-end PCs, not with MS.
I disagree. Hardware compatibility is an issue for everyone, but honestly if MS can do it Apple could do it to. There would be HW companies knocking down Apples doors to get support for their product. We aren't talking about Linux here kids. Oh wait I forgot we basically are. My bad.
They will someday release it as a standalone OS. As they continue to make the shift more towards having the innards of every other type of computer it's a nice backup plan for the day people realize MACs aren't special in any way outside the OS.
What innards are so foreign to Apple that they can't release a standalone version now? What innards would have to be changed in order for them to do so? I think you are looking at the Intel processor, not understanding the rest of the ecosystem that Apple creates and have it all backwards. Macs are special in that the OS is built around a very specific set of HW. Anyone can use this same basic HW, but that doesn't make it a Mac or give it the capability or running like a Mac. For your dream to come to fruition HW types would have to become greatly minimized, but there seems to be more and more popping up every day and new innovations sprouting up, which is why you have it backwards. Plus, there are many things you just can't do without specifically working with melding the OS with the HW to create a better UI and better user experience.
MS has no taste. It's as true now as it was back when Steve said it, as part of one of the most eloquent and thoughtful perspectives I've ever heard on the subject.
Why is everyone doing a price/spec comparison here. Who really cares?
I do. as well as many others. Saving on my new PC (compared to what I would pay for equally spec-ed Mac) saves me money for new digital/video camera. Or new LCD TV. even if I have a lot of money to spend, I always have a long list of things I want to spend money at. It is not just a computer.
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If it doesn't run OS X and doesn't integrate well with the Apple ecosystem, why the hell would you buy it?? Yecch, I wouldn't touch a Windows box with a ten-foot pole. Why go cheap on the tool you'll be using day in, day out? It HAS to be a rewarding and enjoyable experience.
Are you kidding me, why do you think mot of us dumped WIndows in the first place? I'd gladly pay extra for what I get (and don't get, and won't get) with a Mac.
Question has other side. Why didn't much more of us dump PC and go Mac..? Obviously, much more people still see better value in PC. Don't you agree..?
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Does anyone here actually think these ads will hurt Apple? They simply confirm Apple's status and the desirability of it products. Labeling yourself as the budget brand ipso facto means there is also a premium brand . . . that you don't represent!
I don't think that really is Microsoft intention. I think whole MS campaign is more about answering to funny but annoying Mac guy - PC guy ads apple was using for ages to boost it's sales. If mosquito keeps buzzing around your ears, you will eventually go for a way to whack it hard and silent it.
Quote:
Apple has had the computing sector's number for years now - ever since the intro of the very first iMacs, and they've come up with a winning formula and cater to a very specific market. That won't change for a long, long time.
Different agendas, different methods. Toyota sells more cars here in NZ than any other brand. Maybe even more than all other Japanese brands together. And they advertise with slogans like "Toyota - ordinary people", showing completely normal, everyday people from 16-year-old-teens to grandmas driving various Toyota models.
I disagree. Hardware compatibility is an issue for everyone, but honestly if MS can do it Apple could do it to. There would be HW companies knocking down Apples doors to get support for their product. We aren't talking about Linux here kids. Oh wait I forgot we basically are. My bad.
You seem to be confusing the ability to do something with the desire to do it. I'm sure Ruth Chris' Steak House could do turkey dinners with all the fixins' really well if they tried, but that doesn't mean that they should. This notion that because a company could do it if they choose to means that they should be doing it is just crazy. Apple could sell an iPod Shuffle with a 1 line monochrome display like iRiver does, but does that mean that they should it? Seriously, what happened to having a free market?
While i will agree its all subjective what you feel is best for you and your needs. HP is not using the exact same parts as Apple nor are their machines made in the same factories.
From a design standpoint that HP is thicker and heavier than Apple's notebooks. Its made of plastic snapped together, Apple's notebooks are made from a single block of aluminum.
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Originally Posted by bsenka
I'm surprised by the criticism of this ad. The Lauren one was pretty stupid, but this one is right on the money, IMO.
I'd rather stab out my eyes with knitting needles than use Windows, but there is no doubt whatsoever that HP is beating the daylights out of Apple with regards to the hardware they offer. More features, nicer looking boxes, using the same parts as Apple, made in the same factory, for a fraction of the cost. I love Apple's software (the OS, the integrated applications, etc), but I would much rather have HP's hardware almost every time.
Folks, all this arguing about hardware specs is besides the point.. Hardware is not the issue as to why people buy a Mac vs. a PC. People switching from PC to Mac are doing so because they are tired of hassling with Windows and it's shortcomings.
People buy a Mac for the user experience, plain and simple. And no matter how hard MS tries to compete with prices and specs on paper, they simply can not match the user experience of using a Mac.. OSX and the integration of the iLife apps and Apple's mobile devices is unmatched by anyone.
So while you're bitching about prices and specs, show me one example of where Microsoft have created a better user experience than Apple in ANY of the software they make..
That's right, there isn't one..
Help me appreciate the OS X user experience.
I'm serious.
I created a hackintosh, but after a few days, I just reverted to XP as my primary OS. Everything I could do on a Mac, I could do on a PC. I tried to like OS X. I really really REALLY tried. It wasn't bad, but it didn't offer enough extra to learn the ins-and-outs of another OS.
I don't know what I did wrong. Did I miss the Kool-Aid tray or something?
EDIT: I still have OS X Leopard installed. I'm willing to give it another go if someone can convince/convert me.
Youre absolutely right. Theres no reason they can't do it now. Innards might have been a poor choice of words but.... Come on, your really think that OSX is any more optimized for it's hardware than a DELL DIMENSION is for windows? I mean, yes Apple does a good job of giving the customer the proper hardware to run their OS but HP and Dell also have computers perfectly suited to run windows. There isn't any true melding of the HW and software for MAC. It's the same process the windows programmers go through. It's a descent machine but let's not think it's the best thing out there. Any quality PC running a Linux Distro will run better than a MAC.
How about these ideas for future Apple Commercials...
sorry but nix on all of them.
why? because it would be Apple stooping to Microsoft games. the "I"m a mac" ads weren't telling anything that wasn't true (which is why Gates didn't win a fortune in slander damages). and now they have moved on to a new focus. it seems weird that they are basically using the iphone/touch as a 'gateway drug' but it is something that works with a PC. and once folks take that first step many will at least come back for a look. so it works.
if they start doing "Lauren" ads or "I'm a Mac and I"m 4" they will just be copying Microsoft.
then again, I just chaperoned 20 first graders on a 'field trip' to an Apple Store where they got to have an exclusive class on making iphoto slideshows. and they do workshops for various topics and ages throughout the week etc. While we were wrapping up and getting ready to take the kids back to school I actually heard a sales person tell a couple they should come to the basic workshop to see what the whole operating system looks like before they decide if they really want to switch. I thought that was brilliant.
oh and someone asked who was making these microsoft ads. I know that about a year ago it was Crispin Porter and Bogusky, who have never really impressed me
Any quality PC running a Linux Distro will run better than a MAC.
That isn't true, even the new Ubuntu build, that is copying OS X' ease of use, is still a far cry from being a simple machine to use. If you don't believe me give the most techtarded person you know a Mac, Windows and Linux machine to use, then have them install the OS from scratch and then do a bunch of common tasks that PC users do. I bet I know which one will be dead last.
You are looking at Apple's Mac platform the wrong way. You are looking at Apple as an OS maker that builds their HW around it, not as a PC vendor that is differentiating itself by making its own OS. There is no benefit to Apple for selling its OS to other vendors. They gain marketshare but lose everything else in the process. There is absolutely nothing worthwhile about such an endeavor.
"where he can easily spend several hundred dollars just trying to match the features and usability of the free iLife and Mac OS X tools Apple bundles with the MacBook. "
Uh, ever heard of open source? You name 1 piece of software that comes with OSX or Windows and I'll find a piece of open source software that _functions_ just as well.
I created a hackintosh, but after a few days, I just reverted to XP as my primary OS. Everything I could do on a Mac, I could do on a PC. I tried to like OS X. I really really REALLY tried. It wasn't bad, but it didn't offer enough extra to learn the ins-and-outs of another OS.
I don't know what I did wrong. Did I miss the Kool-Aid tray or something?
EDIT: I still have OS X Leopard installed. I'm willing to give it another go if someone can convince/convert me.
You make comments like Kool-Aid tray and you want people to think your query is serious and not just trolling? Hmm...
Windows can do the same basic things as a Mac, if you thought that it was somehow a magical unicorn you were mistaken. The difference in how it can save you steps to doing the same tasks, but looking for the "Mac experience" on a hackintosh isn't going to cut it. I've built plenty of machines from OSx86. Not one was close enough to the real thing to be a replacement. Even the differences in the keyboards used makes a difference.
My recommendation to you is to still with Windows.
No argument there, the newbie would find mac easier to use. Perhaps your right that I'm looking at the model backwards but I still think the end product is the same. I meant it literally runs better. Not easier necessarily to use. If you ever get an opportunity to try Enlightenment, or any E17 distro you will see that Linux isn't at the point where I'd recommend it to the average user but it's getting there.
Uh, ever heard of open source? You name 1 piece of software that comes with OSX or Windows and I'll find a piece of open source software that _functions_ just as well.
I find the iPhoto features that will organize my photos by their faces automatically really useful. I also like the maps aspect that makes looking over any region I wish to see geotagged photos easy for finding certain groups of pics. Which open source photo cataloguing app has those features?
Comments
Actually if Apple wanted to compete seriously with windows and start making serious margins they would release OSX for "PC".
I bet you some day it will happen(when they aren't making any money on the hardware end). There's no reason with a few tweaks from Apple it shouldn't run fine on any computer.
All they have to do is make it's compatibility better with AMD and accept support for IDE hard drives..... There obviously is more to it but nothing that couldn't be hammered out in a week.
i would be very happy if they did this.
if they did this i would 1. not have to buy an overpriced all-in-one just to get OSX 2. would give MS a lot more competition/open peoples minds that there is more than just windows out there.
If you're not sure how important DDR3 vs DDR2 is on laptops then perhaps you should withhold your comments until you educate yourself on the subject.
I don't think you have spent any significant time educating yourself on DDR2 vs DDR3 performance; otherwise, you would skip on that part.
i would be very happy if they did this.
if they did this i would 1. not have to buy an overpriced all-in-one just to get OSX 2. would give MS a lot more competition/open peoples minds that there is more than just windows out there.
1) You don't have to buy an AIO to get OS X.
2) Having a higher marketshare does not equal more net profit.
You fail to see that supporting any and every HW option is not a simple task. It's one that MS still, with it's vast funds and long history of trying still hasn't gotten right. Remember the lack of driver support with XP x64 and Vista when they launched? You also fail to see that Apple would have to sell many more copies of the OS X to equal the cost of one Mac or that Apple is, in regards to it's financial focus, a hardware company competing with higher-end PCs, not with MS.
They will someday release it as a standalone OS. As they continue to make the shift more towards having the innards of every other type of computer it's a nice backup plan for the day people realize MACs aren't special in any way outside the OS.
What innards are so foreign to Apple that they can't release a standalone version now? What innards would have to be changed in order for them to do so? I think you are looking at the Intel processor, not understanding the rest of the ecosystem that Apple creates and have it all backwards. Macs are special in that the OS is built around a very specific set of HW. Anyone can use this same basic HW, but that doesn't make it a Mac or give it the capability or running like a Mac. For your dream to come to fruition HW types would have to become greatly minimized, but there seems to be more and more popping up every day and new innovations sprouting up, which is why you have it backwards. Plus, there are many things you just can't do without specifically working with melding the OS with the HW to create a better UI and better user experience.
MS has no taste. It's as true now as it was back when Steve said it, as part of one of the most eloquent and thoughtful perspectives I've ever heard on the subject.
Why is everyone doing a price/spec comparison here. Who really cares?
I do. as well as many others. Saving on my new PC (compared to what I would pay for equally spec-ed Mac) saves me money for new digital/video camera. Or new LCD TV. even if I have a lot of money to spend, I always have a long list of things I want to spend money at. It is not just a computer.
If it doesn't run OS X and doesn't integrate well with the Apple ecosystem, why the hell would you buy it?? Yecch, I wouldn't touch a Windows box with a ten-foot pole. Why go cheap on the tool you'll be using day in, day out? It HAS to be a rewarding and enjoyable experience.
Are you kidding me, why do you think mot of us dumped WIndows in the first place? I'd gladly pay extra for what I get (and don't get, and won't get) with a Mac.
Question has other side. Why didn't much more of us dump PC and go Mac..? Obviously, much more people still see better value in PC. Don't you agree..?
Does anyone here actually think these ads will hurt Apple? They simply confirm Apple's status and the desirability of it products. Labeling yourself as the budget brand ipso facto means there is also a premium brand . . . that you don't represent!
I don't think that really is Microsoft intention. I think whole MS campaign is more about answering to funny but annoying Mac guy - PC guy ads apple was using for ages to boost it's sales. If mosquito keeps buzzing around your ears, you will eventually go for a way to whack it hard and silent it.
Apple has had the computing sector's number for years now - ever since the intro of the very first iMacs, and they've come up with a winning formula and cater to a very specific market. That won't change for a long, long time.
Different agendas, different methods. Toyota sells more cars here in NZ than any other brand. Maybe even more than all other Japanese brands together. And they advertise with slogans like "Toyota - ordinary people", showing completely normal, everyday people from 16-year-old-teens to grandmas driving various Toyota models.
And they sell even more.
This campaign is better than sienfeld, but I doubt it will last significantly longer.
I disagree. Hardware compatibility is an issue for everyone, but honestly if MS can do it Apple could do it to. There would be HW companies knocking down Apples doors to get support for their product. We aren't talking about Linux here kids. Oh wait I forgot we basically are. My bad.
You seem to be confusing the ability to do something with the desire to do it. I'm sure Ruth Chris' Steak House could do turkey dinners with all the fixins' really well if they tried, but that doesn't mean that they should. This notion that because a company could do it if they choose to means that they should be doing it is just crazy. Apple could sell an iPod Shuffle with a 1 line monochrome display like iRiver does, but does that mean that they should it? Seriously, what happened to having a free market?
From a design standpoint that HP is thicker and heavier than Apple's notebooks. Its made of plastic snapped together, Apple's notebooks are made from a single block of aluminum.
I'm surprised by the criticism of this ad. The Lauren one was pretty stupid, but this one is right on the money, IMO.
I'd rather stab out my eyes with knitting needles than use Windows, but there is no doubt whatsoever that HP is beating the daylights out of Apple with regards to the hardware they offer. More features, nicer looking boxes, using the same parts as Apple, made in the same factory, for a fraction of the cost. I love Apple's software (the OS, the integrated applications, etc), but I would much rather have HP's hardware almost every time.
Folks, all this arguing about hardware specs is besides the point.. Hardware is not the issue as to why people buy a Mac vs. a PC. People switching from PC to Mac are doing so because they are tired of hassling with Windows and it's shortcomings.
People buy a Mac for the user experience, plain and simple. And no matter how hard MS tries to compete with prices and specs on paper, they simply can not match the user experience of using a Mac.. OSX and the integration of the iLife apps and Apple's mobile devices is unmatched by anyone.
So while you're bitching about prices and specs, show me one example of where Microsoft have created a better user experience than Apple in ANY of the software they make..
That's right, there isn't one..
Help me appreciate the OS X user experience.
I'm serious.
I created a hackintosh, but after a few days, I just reverted to XP as my primary OS. Everything I could do on a Mac, I could do on a PC. I tried to like OS X. I really really REALLY tried. It wasn't bad, but it didn't offer enough extra to learn the ins-and-outs of another OS.
I don't know what I did wrong. Did I miss the Kool-Aid tray or something?
EDIT: I still have OS X Leopard installed. I'm willing to give it another go if someone can convince/convert me.
Youre absolutely right. Theres no reason they can't do it now. Innards might have been a poor choice of words but.... Come on, your really think that OSX is any more optimized for it's hardware than a DELL DIMENSION is for windows? I mean, yes Apple does a good job of giving the customer the proper hardware to run their OS but HP and Dell also have computers perfectly suited to run windows. There isn't any true melding of the HW and software for MAC. It's the same process the windows programmers go through. It's a descent machine but let's not think it's the best thing out there. Any quality PC running a Linux Distro will run better than a MAC.
How about these ideas for future Apple Commercials...
sorry but nix on all of them.
why? because it would be Apple stooping to Microsoft games. the "I"m a mac" ads weren't telling anything that wasn't true (which is why Gates didn't win a fortune in slander damages). and now they have moved on to a new focus. it seems weird that they are basically using the iphone/touch as a 'gateway drug' but it is something that works with a PC. and once folks take that first step many will at least come back for a look. so it works.
if they start doing "Lauren" ads or "I'm a Mac and I"m 4" they will just be copying Microsoft.
then again, I just chaperoned 20 first graders on a 'field trip' to an Apple Store where they got to have an exclusive class on making iphoto slideshows. and they do workshops for various topics and ages throughout the week etc. While we were wrapping up and getting ready to take the kids back to school I actually heard a sales person tell a couple they should come to the basic workshop to see what the whole operating system looks like before they decide if they really want to switch. I thought that was brilliant.
oh and someone asked who was making these microsoft ads. I know that about a year ago it was Crispin Porter and Bogusky, who have never really impressed me
Any quality PC running a Linux Distro will run better than a MAC.
That isn't true, even the new Ubuntu build, that is copying OS X' ease of use, is still a far cry from being a simple machine to use. If you don't believe me give the most techtarded person you know a Mac, Windows and Linux machine to use, then have them install the OS from scratch and then do a bunch of common tasks that PC users do. I bet I know which one will be dead last.
You are looking at Apple's Mac platform the wrong way. You are looking at Apple as an OS maker that builds their HW around it, not as a PC vendor that is differentiating itself by making its own OS. There is no benefit to Apple for selling its OS to other vendors. They gain marketshare but lose everything else in the process. There is absolutely nothing worthwhile about such an endeavor.
Uh, ever heard of open source? You name 1 piece of software that comes with OSX or Windows and I'll find a piece of open source software that _functions_ just as well.
Help me appreciate the OS X user experience.
I'm serious.
I created a hackintosh, but after a few days, I just reverted to XP as my primary OS. Everything I could do on a Mac, I could do on a PC. I tried to like OS X. I really really REALLY tried. It wasn't bad, but it didn't offer enough extra to learn the ins-and-outs of another OS.
I don't know what I did wrong. Did I miss the Kool-Aid tray or something?
EDIT: I still have OS X Leopard installed. I'm willing to give it another go if someone can convince/convert me.
You make comments like Kool-Aid tray and you want people to think your query is serious and not just trolling? Hmm...
Windows can do the same basic things as a Mac, if you thought that it was somehow a magical unicorn you were mistaken. The difference in how it can save you steps to doing the same tasks, but looking for the "Mac experience" on a hackintosh isn't going to cut it. I've built plenty of machines from OSx86. Not one was close enough to the real thing to be a replacement. Even the differences in the keyboards used makes a difference.
My recommendation to you is to still with Windows.
No argument there, the newbie would find mac easier to use. Perhaps your right that I'm looking at the model backwards but I still think the end product is the same. I meant it literally runs better. Not easier necessarily to use. If you ever get an opportunity to try Enlightenment, or any E17 distro you will see that Linux isn't at the point where I'd recommend it to the average user but it's getting there.
Uh, ever heard of open source? You name 1 piece of software that comes with OSX or Windows and I'll find a piece of open source software that _functions_ just as well.
I find the iPhoto features that will organize my photos by their faces automatically really useful. I also like the maps aspect that makes looking over any region I wish to see geotagged photos easy for finding certain groups of pics. Which open source photo cataloguing app has those features?