Microsoft pays for inaccurate "Apple Tax" study, issues 3rd TV ad

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  • Reply 221 of 343
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Stashman View Post


    Kay's report is the biggest pile of steaming crap I have ever seen! Better research has come out of a dog's ass. It's Microsoft sponsored so it's clearly just BS.



    His figures for the 'Apple tax' are complete nonsense. Where are the thousands of $ a PC user has to spend on anti virus software, tech support, basic software like Preview and iMovie along with their time which the computer will waste when it breaks, crashes and needs reinstalling?



    Also the microsoft windowsteamblog site it so badly made it won't let Macs using firefox 3 or Safari post comments - no doubt this is deliberate as it would expose the lies.



    I feel like throwing my Xbox 360 at Steve Ballmer's head!



    My, you are completely clueless.



    Instead of throwing 360 at Ballmer's head, better spend some time educating yourself before you post things you have not a single puny little idea about.
  • Reply 222 of 343
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    Playing simple games on an iPhone is far different from gaming on a PC or Mac.



    The main selling point for Macs has never, ever been gaming. We don't buy them for gaming. So what's left? An amazing, integrated user experience on OS X. THAT is what we care about. There are far cheaper options when it comes to a gaming rig.



    Mac users (or prospective users) who clamour for games and complain endlessly about hardware that is otherwise unnecessary in the OS X ecosystem just so they can have their games are barking up the wrong tree.



    Well GOOD MORNING, VIETNAM!!!



    Of course you don't buy Macs for gaming - there are almost no games for Mac. Not even the most dedicated Apple acolyte would find excuse to buy Mac for gaming.



    But many of you do buy and bootcamp Windows on Mac because of gaming.



    So what is your point?
  • Reply 223 of 343
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post


    Good luck finding the drivers to upgrade your Vaio to any future version of Windows!



    No need for luck there. I haven't seen PC hardware up to 5 years old that does not work with Vista... and I've seen a lot of hardware. Since W7 will be compatible on drivers' level with Vista, same trend will continue.



    Do 5 years old Macs work with Leopard and Snow Leopard..?
  • Reply 224 of 343
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post


    Thousands of $$ dumped on WinMo devices here over the years. I was so happy to dump them all when the iPhone debuted. Can you imagine, a hand-held web browser that's actually good for something?







    How do you know?



    Because... he never had any signs of virus infection, maybe..?



    Oh, wait - he must have a few dozens of those highly deadly viruses that do nothing at all!!!
  • Reply 225 of 343
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    Uh huh. And you just happened to be motivated to register on an Apple enthusiast site, concurrent with and in order to basically repeat the latest MS ad campaign points, even though you don't really like such environments.



    27 years and no viruses? Bullshit. You're a shill.



    You don't know the guy, don't know anything about him - and you call him a liar just because he said something not in line with your vision of real world?



    Your parents haven't done great job at all...
  • Reply 226 of 343
    blah64blah64 Posts: 928member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    No need for luck there. I haven't seen PC hardware up to 5 years old that does not work with Vista... and I've seen a lot of hardware. Since W7 will be compatible on drivers' level with Vista, same trend will continue.



    Do 5 years old Macs work with Leopard and Snow Leopard..?



    What you really mean is: Yes.



    We have 5 year old Macs that work fine with Leopard (there is no Snow Leopard yet). In fact, the iMac G4/1.0 17" was introduced in Feb 2003, and that's over 6 years ago. And it's fully supported by Leopard, and runs just great. My kids get hand-me-down hardware, and it just keeps working and working and working. And getting better with each new OS release - which conveniently comes in affordable family packs.



    And if you're really saying you haven't seen 5 year old PC hardware that can't run Vista, you're either a fking liar, or ignorant beyond belief. Go read a few articles instead of coming in here and leaving post after post of troll bullshit.
  • Reply 227 of 343
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,660member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    You don't know the guy, don't know anything about him - and you call him a liar just because he said something not in line with your vision of real world?



    Your parents haven't done great job at all...



    No, I called him a liar because his post was pretty much a compendium of MS talking points, he apparently chose to register on a Mac enthusiast site even though he specifically stated that he disliked our company, and he made some highly suspect claims about his experience of Windows as a pristine nirvana.



    I have to ask myself why someone who is enjoying using their PCs would ever see the need to seek out Mac users to school them in the error of their ways.



    You, on the other hand, without knowing me, have elected to question how I was raised, based on my failure to conform to your vision of the world.



    Which just makes you an asshole.
  • Reply 228 of 343
    ibillibill Posts: 392member
    All your astroturfist are belong to Nikon133..
  • Reply 229 of 343
    So they (MS) are saying that they themselves find Apple Premium products? Finally for the first time in the history they are correct about something.



    They are so scared that they attack the "premiumness" and "glossyness" without thinking, cleary. The meeting about this went probably by throwing chairs 'round the office.



    Anyway, it would've make, although factually incorrect, if they told us how NOT premium Apple is, stating that every pc has WiFi, and more connectivity and that they are pretty as well and that Apple just is a Intel PC with a nice case wrapped around it.
  • Reply 230 of 343
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post


    See, now, this is the kind of thing that really frustrates me. I've heard it I don't know how many times from PC users. And yet, I don't know a single Mac user who thinks like this. Not one.



    That was one of my reasons for getting a Mac and an iPOD, iPhone etc. Lots of people want stuff that is better than things other people have and Apple products fall into that category like designer hardware. Lets face it Macs have always cost more and your paying for a name and the case it comes in.
  • Reply 231 of 343
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    Do 5 years old Macs work with Leopard and Snow Leopard..?



    Yes! To name a few:



    The Quicksilver PowerMac G4 867Ghz introduced in July 2001 (almost 8 years ago!!!) can run Leopard



    The Aluminium PowerBook G4 introduced in January 2003 867Mhz - 1Ghz (6 years old) runs it along with the previous Titanium PowerBook G4 867Mhz - 1Ghz from November 2002



    The iMac G4 1Ghz introduced in February 2003 also can run Leopard.



    It would appear that all Macs released after April 2004 can run Leopard.
  • Reply 232 of 343
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Stashman View Post


    Went to Dell.com and specd out a 2.4 Ghz Studio XPS 13 Laptop with Vista® Ultimate, 4Gb RAM, 320Gb HD, some essential software for migration, office and anti-virus along with 3 year warranty. The total cost came out as $2025 (including a few discounts).



    Now going to Apple's Education store (face it you are probably get this for a kid or student anyway)

    A similar spec MacBook 2.4 Ghz, 4Gb RAM 320Gb HD, 3 year apple care, +iWorks +Bento works out at $1929.



    So that thats PC TAX of roughly 5% before you even get it home.



    There should be an advert 'Get yourself a decent laptop which you can use and is going to last your more than 3 years for under $2000'



    Thinking about it, it's actually in Microsoft interest to sell you a crap computer so you will have to replace it every year, the only problem is that people a have worked this out and the alternatives are a lot better. People don't what to shut up and put up any more. PCs are cheap for a reason, they just don't last.



    That's a somewhat bogus comparison since you're comparing a heavily discounted product against one that isn't really discounted at all. You'll need to tell us the price of the Mac without any educational discount before this is a credible comparison. My guess is it becomes a lot more expensive.



    EDIT - It looks like it's $2121.95 for the Mac, which gives it a small premium over the Dell offering. Hmmm, and somehow the Dell I configured comes to $1567 which includes the same spec as the MacBook, same 3 years warranty, and Microsoft Office. So it seems you pay about a $600 premium for the Mac, which is a good 40% or so - no amount of unibody or OSX is worth that much IMO! I'd rather stick with Windows than be $600 worse off (DISCLAIMER - this is my opinion, and may vary from others).
  • Reply 233 of 343
    It's quite funny that people continue to complain that they can't afford to buy a Mac and that this is somehow Apple's fault for not selling them a substandard product or one at a heavy lose.



    To be blunt it's your problem for not saving properly for the computer you really want. Not looking for discounts say on the Apple educational store or at refurbished products, or even on ebay.
  • Reply 234 of 343
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mrochester View Post


    That's a somewhat bogus comparison



    Where do Dell offer Ed discounts? Their site is pretty bad to find anythings, I was actually trying to find an Adamo to compare with an MacBook Air but gave up looking and stuck with the latitude.



    It did take me about 10x longer to spec out the Dell and to find out things like it's weight and actual screen res than the MacBook.



    Even if it is bogus, it's still less bogus than the so called 'professional' report since both are quite close on price and not out by $1000's over 5 years
  • Reply 234 of 343
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Stashman View Post


    It's quite funny that people continue to complain that they can't afford to buy a Mac and that this is somehow Apple's fault for not selling them a substandard product or one at a heavy lose.



    To be blunt it's your problem for not saving properly for the computer you really want. Not looking for discounts say on the Apple educational store or at refurbished products, or even on ebay.



    I'd really love to own a Mac because I love the style. However, I can't bring myself to spend so much on a computer I know I could build myself for half the price and do the same/more things on it. When Apple offer more reasonable prices where I don't feel like I'm being ripped off, I'll buy one then
  • Reply 236 of 343
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mrochester View Post


    I'd really love to own a Mac because I love the style. However, I can't bring myself to spend so much on a computer I know I could build myself for half the price and do the same/more things on it. When Apple offer more reasonable prices where I don't feel like I'm being ripped off, I'll buy one then



    Macs are not just a fancy case, they are combination of hardware and software which is built to work together. Apple's prices ARE reasonable.



    I doubt you'll be able to build a computer for half the price that does the same things (+ these imaginary 'more' things). Why don't you also factor your time into this endeavor unless you value it at zero? Maybe if you spent this time working and getting paid you might not find Macs expensive.
  • Reply 237 of 343
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gustav View Post


    Something smells fishy. 5 Years ago laptops were more expensive than they are now. A lot more. If you got three laptops five years ago, and two laptops two years ago, you'd have spent a lot more than an average of $600 per laptop.



    Then you claim a MacBook costs $2000.



    Your cost figures sound as bogus as this report we're discussing.



    Five years 3 months ago I bought 3 HP laptops with AMD 2400 processors for $599 each and got a 10% discount on them. Two years 6 months ago a bought a Dell laptop for $425 and two years 4 months ago I bought another Dell for 1015. I'm sorry I underestimated the total. It was actually $3060.00.



    I don't know the exact numbers on the Macbook. I only know what I was told and I was told $2000.00. I know that two years ago you needed to spend more money then you do now to get a 250 gig hard disk, 2 gig of ram and a faster processor. I do not know all the options that were selected at the Apple store and it was with an academic discount.
  • Reply 238 of 343
    Over the past 6-7 years Apple has managed two Major architectural transitions which are contributing to is current success. First was the move from Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X. The following five subsequent releases of OS X would often improve performance of software running on the same hardware. Secondly the move from PowerPC to Intel processors. Both of these were big moves and have clearly made the Mac a better platform for it's users.



    Meanwhile Microsoft has been battling for 10 years with buggy half assed releases of Windows 98, Me, 2000, XP, now Vista and soon 7. During this whole process they have done little in the way of making things any better for it's users. Instead they have bloated the OS making it run slow on existing hardware and added features which are highly annoying and inconvenient, Microsoft Genuine Advantage anyone? Windows still looks like a dog's ass, crashes lots, is plagued with viruses, Internet Explorer sucks and the whole thing needs reinstalling every 6 months.



    It's clear that Apple's track record is just so much better than Microsoft's. Buying a PC is just a waste, as once you have it no one cares, not the shop which you brought it from (unless you want to pay for the Nerd Hurd), the manufacturer or Microsoft, you're stuffed! Further PC's change so often and are randomly spec out so you are unlikely to ever find someone with the same model and hence share knowledge.



    Apple has a history of supporting it's products. Every product the company has ever released is clearly documented on Apple's website, Wikipedia and numinous other sites, No other PC company can claim this. Apple products have a community and there will be 1000's of other people online with the same kit. Finally Apple has expanding network of retail stores staffed by people who know and care the Mac.
  • Reply 239 of 343
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Stashman View Post


    Macs are not just a fancy case, they are combination of hardware and software which is built to work together. Apple's prices ARE reasonable.



    I doubt you'll be able to build a computer for half the price that does the same things (+ these imaginary 'more' things). Why don't you also factor your time into this endeavor unless you value it at zero? Maybe if you spent this time working and getting paid you might not find Macs expensive.



    I'd argue they weren't reasonable when I could build the same spec PC for almost half the price, and it perform the same and/or better than the Mac does. To me, that's unreasonable. I'm happy to factor in a margin of 10-15% on top of the cost of components for Apple to keep, but anymore and I think they're simply ripping people off. Their $20billion bank account clearly demonstrates they have plenty of cash to spare, so could easily reduce the price of their hardware without much bother.



    If you were putting together a PC you'd be doing it in your own time anyway - it's not as if you'd take a days unpaid leave from work to do it! Or are you suggesting that every minute of everyday you are doing paid work? If that was a consideration anyway, you'd just buy a (still cheaper) Dell or something since it arrives all built
  • Reply 240 of 343
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mrochester View Post


    I'd argue they weren't reasonable when I could build the same spec PC for almost half the price, and it perform the same and/or better than the Mac does. To me, that's unreasonable.



    The pricing of a product is set by the supplier. It's up to them set the price which allows them to continue as a business and supply a product which the buyer can have confidence in.



    Your idea of buying components introduces a large element of risk. The completed computer may not function as expected and leaves you with little recourse.
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