Microsoft pays for inaccurate "Apple Tax" study, issues 3rd TV ad

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  • Reply 261 of 343
    foo2foo2 Posts: 1,077member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bruce Atkinson View Post


    I personally get a kick out of buying something at the Apple store and as the sales clerk is knocking something about Windows I ask them how they like using Windows Mobile on their handheld point of sale device. Seems like the iPhone or iPod touch should be capable enough, but they must not be.



    It is strange, isn't it? You've noticed, too, then how the iPod touch goes way, way, way beyond the capabilities of WinMo devices, yet Apple continues to use their old POS devices instead of an iPod touch. It's almost like Apple has a big investment in the old technology and they need to amortize it over 5 years. Or maybe that it takes more than a year to develop such a specialized system. Strange. Strange you pretend to be so stoopid.
  • Reply 262 of 343
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bruce Atkinson View Post


    What can you even say when people talk like this. It shows an obvious complete lack of understanding of virus's/trojans, and how OS X works.







    I chose not to get Gigabit ethernet or a camera. I had the option and chose not to get them. They were inexpensive options but I didn't see any benefit. Two years ago multi-touch wasn't an issue and it's also one I don't care about. My battery life is excellent, because I had an option to get a larger battery and I chose it. I don't care about unibody or optical audio. I've never broken a tray and prefer the tray over the slot loading drives. Speakers on her Macbook do not sound better. Less than an inch thick or its weight doesn't matter to me. I don't know what my Dell weighs. It's not heavy, so I don't care. I have Bluetooth. Who cares about DisplayPort? I certainly don't. I think the display on my Dell is excellent and I can't see the difference between my daughter's Macbook and my Dell except that mine is bigger.



    It's not a competition. Different people want different things. Macs are great. Macs cost more. I am perfectly happy with my Dell and it's quality (zero problems in over two years of use). I like my Mac mini also. I would prefer to just have the option to run OS X on the Dell. Even if I could, my personal preference would still be to have Vista as my default to boot into.





    Not really. Instead you are just proving my points in previous posts. I'm not sure why you have to tell me how crappy my choices are. Your comments are emotional and not based on facts. I never said that the Dell was better. They are equivalent in all things that I care about except for one (cost). You are free to look at the same two devices and come to your own conclusion. It doesn't hurt my feelings if you pick the Macbook.



    You asked me what the MacBook had over the Dell and I told you. To a lot of people, those things make a real difference and do justify the cost of the MacBook. You're free to use a PC, I never said anything about your choice to do so. I just don't believe you understand the Mac's real benefits and how the extra cost is easily justified.



    I think it's you who lacks a clear understanding of how OS X works. Anyone who's experienced in any Unix-based operating system would agree. Malware can not hide from a knowledgeable user in a Unix environment.
  • Reply 263 of 343
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,215member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Halvri View Post


    Just a quick question: you do realize that packing too many pixels into too small of a screens makes things invariably harder to see, right?



    don't know about that. I watch video on my ipod nano all the time and it is quite crisp. if I remember right that little screen has higher res than an ipod touch. it's like the same as Apple's 30" cinema display
  • Reply 264 of 343
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,215member
    seriously. folks keep saying this and that. who wants to prove it.



    On Apple's site right now I have a shopping cart I am ready to buy. My challenge is for anyone to find me a Windows based unit I can buy in a store or configure and buy online (no homebuilt machines, lets treat this like I am joe q public not a tech geek with a basement of parts to work with) that matches all the hardware and software specs of my order. remember if it is online to include any shipping charges. we'll leave off sales tax. and it must include ALL specs, size of the machine, max screen res, speed and type of ram as well as GB amount, equal software (yes that means you have to find software to match ilife etc). and none of this 'i'm saying x is included free but it is really a trial that you have to buy a key for later' nonsense. all software must be fully operational, all keys/serials etc covered.



    in other words, do the reports comparison the right way.



    My cart:

    3.06ghz 24" iMac (no HD/RAM etc changes to config) with full size apple Keyboard (no additional cost), wired mouse, iwork and bento preinstalled, one year mobile me single user, apple care and a Canon PIXMA MP480 photo printer



    after rebate on printer ($100) discounts on iwork and mobileme with purchase ($30 each) and free shipping (7 to 10 business days to arrival), my subtotal is $2654.90.



    have at it windows folks, what's the machine and what's my 'apple tax'
  • Reply 265 of 343
    justflybobjustflybob Posts: 1,337member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by a_greer View Post


    Lots of issues with your post, but it is late and I am tired so here is a few:



    a target fro viruses, sure, but that also means that there is a ton of Rand D and competition to find and remove them, if you were to write malware for the Mac, it would never get discovered until Symantec found it.



    the hole that Conflicker hit was patched months before the malware came out, if someone exploits a hole in 10.5.2, that apple patched in 10.5.3 today, when we are on 10.5.6, is that still a black mark on Apple, or does it speak volumes about the users lack of running updates.



    Yea, PCs have hardware issues, but it is a tradeoff, pc guys dont have to use a $3000 tower and $400 GPU to have a reasonable graphics experience for 3d apps



    You seem to have forgotten how many Windows users have their Updates preferences set to Notify, but never actually RUN the updates until after something bad happens. I should know, I work in an office full of such users.



    The other weirdness is that I am using a MPB 17, but running XP Pro SP3 through VMware Fusion, only because I have to in order to run needed Windows proprietary apps. Whenever something bad happens to THEIR Windows computer, I get blamed as I'm running a Mac on the network? Go figure. It just speaks volumes to me of the mindset of many Windows users.
  • Reply 266 of 343
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by UbiquitousGeek View Post


    . I just don't believe you understand the Mac's real benefits and how the extra cost is easily justified.



    I do and I cannot easily justify the added expense. FYI, some of my posts have been posted on my $475.00 Mac mini (2008 vintage).



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by UbiquitousGeek View Post


    .

    I think it's you who lacks a clear understanding of how OS X works. Anyone who's experienced in any Unix-based operating system would agree. Malware can not hide from a knowledgeable user in a Unix environment.



    This is just plain wrong. I'm not sure how a knowledgeable person can make an absolute statement like that.



    I have posted way too much to this thread, so this is my last post on it. If anyone wants to discuss anything I posted on this thread please e-mail me directly: [email protected].
  • Reply 267 of 343
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


    seriously. folks keep saying this and that. who wants to prove it.



    On Apple's site right now I have a shopping cart I am ready to buy. My challenge is for anyone to find me a Windows based unit I can buy in a store or configure and buy online (no homebuilt machines, lets treat this like I am joe q public not a tech geek with a basement of parts to work with) that matches all the hardware and software specs of my order. remember if it is online to include any shipping charges. we'll leave off sales tax. and it must include ALL specs, size of the machine, max screen res, speed and type of ram as well as GB amount, equal software (yes that means you have to find software to match ilife etc). and none of this 'i'm saying x is included free but it is really a trial that you have to buy a key for later' nonsense. all software must be fully operational, all keys/serials etc covered.



    in other words, do the reports comparison the right way.



    My cart:

    3.06ghz 24" iMac (no HD/RAM etc changes to config) with full size apple Keyboard (no additional cost), wired mouse, iwork and bento preinstalled, one year mobile me single user, apple care and a Canon PIXMA MP480 photo printer



    after rebate on printer ($100) discounts on iwork and mobileme with purchase ($30 each) and free shipping (7 to 10 business days to arrival), my subtotal is $2654.90.



    have at it windows folks, what's the machine and what's my 'apple tax'



    You're making that comparison impossible by demanding it being an AIO - you'll have to loosen up that requirement to 'mid-range' computers to get any meaningful comparison. Something like the Dell Studio is the mid-range equivilent to the iMac, and of course, outdoes the Mac by a country mile.
  • Reply 268 of 343
    foo2foo2 Posts: 1,077member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bruce Atkinson View Post


    I have posted way too much to this thread, so this is my last post on it. If anyone wants to discuss anything I posted on this thread please e-mail me directly: [email protected].



    Well, so long. I don't blame you for feeling you're wasting time here, time that could be better wasted working on Windows. Given all that you've put up with as a M$ developer, though, I'm surprised you haven't pursued the Mac yet... unless... deep down inside you actually enjoy dll hell. Yes, that's the kind of rush you just can't buy at any Apple store, not at any price.
  • Reply 269 of 343
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dfergenson View Post


    While memory, hard drive space... matter, are these things really on your mind when you are shopping for a computer? I'm looking for something that feels fast, does what I need it to do, stays out of the way so that I'm not thinking about using a computer, doesn't break down on me and has a long useful life. I honestly don't know or care how much RAM is in the computer that I'm currently using.



    I have a PC which I use for scientific applications that are unavailable on the Mac and a Mac for doing pretty much everything else. The Mac is easier to use and the difference in price is more than made up for by that fact. The box specs only tell a story that I doubt the average person needs to hear.



    As usual, 2 sides to that coin.



    Only limited number of users do really care about performance - for big majority, any current Mac/PC would do just fine.



    But then again, for majority of users OS like Windows 95 or whatever was available from Apple at the time would do just fine... boot machine, run email client, run browser. Type simple school assignment. Occasionally burn CD, copy photos... whatever. Simple everyday tasks, usually never more than one application opened.



    At the end of a day, those users will - maybe - not care if, choosing PC over Mac, they can get stronger hardware for the same money; they will probably only care about getting computer that suits their basic needs for much less money.
  • Reply 270 of 343
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gustav View Post


    Hmm... So what you are saying that the video card on the iPhone seems to be enough to satisfy users?



    This is moot point. Console games are the future. Game developers are tired of the piracy and are abandoning the PC. The iPhone is considered a console.



    Actually, PC is recently getting titles that previously were console exclusive. Like, Burnout Paradise. Or Devil May Cry. New Street Fighter is coming for PC at the same time as it is for other platforms. Konami - previously exclusive console publisher - is doing Lost Planet and other strong titles for PC as well.



    There is always surge of console interest that follows new consoles, but as they start ageing and ever-evolving PC hardware open new horizons, game publishers just can't ignore the "lure of the dark side"... even with all the pirating going on.
  • Reply 271 of 343
    I've worked with Apple and PC computers (PC by day, Apple by night).



    There is nothing truly bad with either platform. But lets make a comparison.



    If you need to buy a car, you can buy a Hyundai or a BMW--both will get you to where you want to go, but one is inexpensive, the other is not. Yet folks still buy BMW's for whatever reason. Some might perceive the BMW to be better; some may say it's a waste of money and I could have the Hyundai and some cash in my pocket.



    The lower end PC is the Hyundai. It will get you where you want to go, but maybe slower, clunkier and in less style. The best PC is a Cadillac. Windows Vista Basic is a four cylinder, Premium a V-8.



    The Apple is a BMW. Nicer design, pretty to look at, possibly better engineering a better engine in all model lines. Is it worth the extra money? To some yes. Does it look better in the driveway? Better than most PC's. Is the OS better? I have to say yes. Does it cost more to repair? Sure.



    Microsoft recent ad campaign, a good one, depicts the Hyundai buyer. There will always be lots of Hyundai buyers.
  • Reply 272 of 343
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Microsoft's on a roll



    I think a lot of us are forgetting that hardware is great and all but i will take OSX over any windows OS any day...



    ill pay $1,000 for OSX over a $300 vista or windows 7 or w.e. OS system. Besides they are trying to duplicate apple... but failing miserably
  • Reply 273 of 343
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


    seriously. folks keep saying this and that. who wants to prove it.



    On Apple's site right now I have a shopping cart I am ready to buy. My challenge is for anyone to find me a Windows based unit I can buy in a store or configure and buy online (no homebuilt machines, lets treat this like I am joe q public not a tech geek with a basement of parts to work with) that matches all the hardware and software specs of my order. remember if it is online to include any shipping charges. we'll leave off sales tax. and it must include ALL specs, size of the machine, max screen res, speed and type of ram as well as GB amount, equal software (yes that means you have to find software to match ilife etc). and none of this 'i'm saying x is included free but it is really a trial that you have to buy a key for later' nonsense. all software must be fully operational, all keys/serials etc covered.



    in other words, do the reports comparison the right way.



    My cart:

    3.06ghz 24" iMac (no HD/RAM etc changes to config) with full size apple Keyboard (no additional cost), wired mouse, iwork and bento preinstalled, one year mobile me single user, apple care and a Canon PIXMA MP480 photo printer



    after rebate on printer ($100) discounts on iwork and mobileme with purchase ($30 each) and free shipping (7 to 10 business days to arrival), my subtotal is $2654.90.



    have at it windows folks, what's the machine and what's my 'apple tax'



    I thought "Hey I make a direct comparison to the Dell XPS One", but its just not possible, to get a proper Graphics Card with the Dell you have to spend at least $1,999, but the Dell comes with Quad Core at $1,699.

    Which Apple does offer at all!!!

    I thought at the last upgrade the iMacs got Quad Cores???

    I guess not, sort of disappointing, I thought at least the top end model would offer quad core.

    I hoope Apple does a small refresh soon and will offer QuadCore.
  • Reply 274 of 343
    wilcowilco Posts: 985member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by justflybob View Post


    Game!



    Set!



    Match!



    ^^^ Nerd! ^^^



  • Reply 275 of 343
    As others have brought up, mac users are not just some elists that think we need fancier stuff. I have met plenty of windows only people that think this way, but not any mac users.



    If we are talking straight up hardware, the only think that apple should do is include more standard memory and HD space. As this is what most people look at. Now what they really should do is compare a computer that matches apples attention to design size and performance. I think it would be interesting to compare IBM's (Lenovo) T series to he macbook pro models. As I have been using a T series thinkpad for a while they have always impressed me with quality and performance. But they are not cheap in fact they are pretty close to the mac prices when you look at the specs. So then the question becomes why is the guy buying the 2500$ PC not considered a PC snob or too. Not to mention that MS Office is not included with any computer, so why is the windows user not required in the table to buy that also.



    This is really sad. As windows not being my first choice really doesn't need to justify its existence and relevance. I will always buy what is functionally appropriate and if the software that I need is not included I will buy that too.



    thedude
  • Reply 276 of 343
    xpcxpc Posts: 12member
    how do I delete a post, erm... it's here somewhere...
  • Reply 277 of 343
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    Uh...yes, I agree. This is one reason why Apple hasn't bothered to deal with turning either the Mini or aTV into a DVR. The other is, of course, iTunes.



    You do realize that neither Sony nor Apple wishes to make head to head comparisons particularly easy right?



    One such area that makes the comparison more complicated is that Sony is using 1920x1080 panels and Apple is using 1920x1200 panels.



    Does it really make that much a difference? Kinda sorta...my 24" Dell monitor and my 17" MBP display have the same pixels and same usable work space. The 1080 panel is a bit shorter.



    Worth a $350 dollars between the 18" VAIO and the 17" MBP? Nah, but that with OSX is.



    If you count out Sony's high end offerings of course they are cheaper. Ignoring the Z and TT models is ignoring a large part of Sony's actual profit margins.



    Sure. Of course, the AW is probably more comparable but lets not pick that one.



    Lets actually start with the SR closest to the lowest end MB:



    SR with 2.0Ghz C2D, GMA4500, 160GB HDD, 2GB DDR2 RAM, Vista Home - $1099

    MB with 2.0Ghz C2D, 9400M, 120GB HDD, 2GB DDR2 RAM, OSX - $999



    About the same. But hey, lets not consider the 13" white MB.



    Now lets look at the 2.4 Ghz MB vs Z.



    Z with 2.4 Ghz C2D, 9300M, 250GB HDD, 2GB DDR3 RAM, Vista Home - $1699

    MB with 2.4 Ghz C2D, 9400M, 250GB HDD, 2GB DDR3 RAM, OSX - $1599



    But hey, lets not compare the MB to the Z with the same DDR3 chipset because...then your argument would be far less compelling.



    Yes, Sony makes less expensive laptops. But again...comparing the same laptop (when you can) between Apple and Sony and they come out about the same.



    When you pick laptops with older generation tech against ones with newer generation tech and say "Hey it's cheaper" you're right. But not so honest. Whatever you may think of the advantages of the DDR3 memory Sony has elected to use it for their high end 13" laptop. As has Apple. And like Apple, their lower end 13" machines continue to use the older DDR2 memory.



    LOL... so thick you are. The Z which is barely more expensive the the highend MacBook has 1600x900 display. In addition it has built in Verizon Broadband. Its targeted toward business users willing to spend $40-60 a month on Mobile Broadband. How does that compare to the Macbook? The fact is it does compare to the Vaio SR which spec for spec is EXACTLY the same other than DDR2. However Macworld (http://www.macworld.com/article/1362...enchmarks.html) has Benchmarks that show that there is no noticeable difference between DDR2 and DDR3 even in the Macbooks. I'm sorry, your reference on Consumers comparing the Z to the MacBook is rediculous. It would be like suggesting the MacBook Air to someone needing a basic computer that was affordable just because it was the latest greatest. The Z is not a consumer notebook and is not even offered for sale thru consumer channels like BestBuy. Why would anyone in their right mind buy the Z over the SR unless they wanted 1600x900 display or Mobile Broadband?



    As for using the Plastic Macbook... that isn't fair because the Sony's have LED Screens which one will note that even Apple markets as superior to older screen technologies.



    And for sake of arguement that we compete the 15.4 vs 16.5 and 17 vs the 18", Sony Vaios are still cheaper.



    AND THUS... my original arguement from the begining of this thread still stands in that OVERALL, Sony Vaios are cheaper than their Mac counterparts.
  • Reply 278 of 343
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TexDeafy View Post


    Don't Microsh!t mention too expensive full version and upgrade version?!



    M!crosh!t

    Upgrade:

    Vista Home Basic - $99.95

    Vista Home Premium - $139.95

    Vista Business - $179.95

    Vista Ultimate - $199.95



    Full:

    Vista Home Basic - $199.95

    Vista Home Premium - $239.95

    Vista Business - $269.95

    Vista Ultimate - $349.95



    Mac OS X



    Upgrade AND Full in one:

    Mac OS X Leopard, Home Basic - $139.00

    Mac OS X Leopard, Home Premium - $139.00

    Mac OS X Leopard, Business - $139.00

    Mac OS X Leopard, Ultimate - $139.00



    I'm use Vista ONLY if I have to. I'm use Vista for website editor for my organization. Dreamweaver is too complicated for me to understand. I have MB and LOVE IT! Genius Bar at my Apple store in Plano got my dead MacBook repaired (only after 1 year old that time). They got the logic repair for FREE even with expired Warranty! Now I'm happy Mac User!



    I love the Spin to push your own agenda.



    THE FACT is that Apple does not sell a retail version of Mac OS X that can be installed on any computer. In fact all version of Mac OS X are considered an upgrade.



    If we look at what most computers have on them in regards to Windows, it is Windows Home Premium or Business which roughly are about the same costs. And unlike OS X, there is alot more price flexibility in the retail channels regarding software prices.



    The FACT is, Apple is more expensive overall. Anti-virus is free. There are several free virus products. Microsoft themselves are introducing their own FREE anti-virus in the near future.



    However, that is not stopping me from getting an aluminum MacBook in about two weeks. Sure there is a higher price, but the design is superb,warranty and customer service is great, and I get to run both Windows and OS X legally.



    Let quit being so childish and respond that yes we are buying a Mercedes... but we enjoy driving that Mercedes.
  • Reply 279 of 343
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,660member
    Apple doesn't sell a shrink wrapped version of OS X? Huh. That's a really good argument you're making there.
  • Reply 280 of 343
    ...and all the Ballmer Youth shout "Sieg Heil!"
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