Can anyone with a screwy 4850 iMac check the Console? See if there are any panic.log/Panic Reporter entries or if there's anything screwy in the system.log at the time of the freeze.
This is the sort of thing that is making me hesitate upgrading my iMac 24" next year. I love the machine and the form factor, but I think the heat management is not quite there and it's only gonna get worse as the video cards get better. Shame, I really though having a Radeon 4850 on an iMac was nice. In my case, I'm getting image persistance issues, or better known as "burn-in". Unfortunately there is no decent alternative at that price point.
I bought a 2GB dual G5 in mid 2004 (PCIX model). This computer has a serious lock up/crash problem with the ATI 9600 card that Apple sold me with the computer. Apple has never fixed the problem, although there are many users in the same situation as myself. The only way to avoid the crashes (1-3 times/day) is to disable the ATI card via terminal commands. Kind of useless?
The moral? - never buy an Apple computer model until (at least 6 months?) it has been thoroughly tested by other users.
Man, what a fanboy site! Nothing but Apple ball washing and worship here. It's like you're all living in a perfect little wonderland, never reporting on anything negati...
(Oh, wait a sec...)
And you are posting here why exactly?? BTW I only wash my own balls, thank you very much!!
I'm holding buying a new iMac until Snow Leopard is out. Maybe new hardware will be available when that happens too.
I do wonder about the issues that have been plaguing Apple. Are quality issues becoming more apparent now that Apple is selling more machines to formerly Window's only users? Are the suppliers that provide the components having QA issues? Is there a problem with heat-management in the iMac design that is propagating the problem?
I wonder what the percentage of users this is affecting. If it is less than 1%, I would surmise that they are just very vocal (but no less insignificant). Or is it a sign of bigger problems down the road?
At the moment, I tend to lean on the supplies (in this case ATI/AMD) perhaps either using more substandard components sliding between Apple's QA radar or the Chinese makers of ATI's components being the usual self and trying to get cheap after-the-fact to raise their bottom line.
However, what really sets Apple aside compared to the other PC makers is that if there is a problem, they will work on it and do their best to not leave the users out in the cold. That is a reason why Apple has one of the highest consumer satisfaction ratings. That's the mark of a good company. Taking care of their customers when something DOES go wrong.
I'm not ready to point the finger at Apple just yet... while they design everything, they (like most companies) are at the whim of the suppliers and hope they don't try to slip something in through the cracks.
I'm holding buying a new iMac until Snow Leopard is out. Maybe new hardware will be available when that happens too.
I do wonder about the issues that have been plaguing Apple. Are quality issues becoming more apparent now that Apple is selling more machines to formerly Window's only users? Are the suppliers that provide the components having QA issues? Is there a problem with heat-management in the iMac design that is propagating the problem?
I wonder what the percentage of users this is affecting. If it is less than 1%, I would surmise that they are just very vocal (but no less insignificant). Or is it a sign of bigger problems down the road?
At the moment, I tend to lean on the supplies (in this case ATI/AMD) perhaps either using more substandard components sliding between Apple's QA radar or the Chinese makers of ATI's components being the usual self and trying to get cheap after-the-fact to raise their bottom line.
However, what really sets Apple aside compared to the other PC makers is that if there is a problem, they will work on it and do their best to not leave the users out in the cold. That is a reason why Apple has one of the highest consumer satisfaction ratings. That's the mark of a good company. Taking care of their customers when something DOES go wrong.
I'm not ready to point the finger at Apple just yet... while they design everything, they (like most companies) are at the whim of the suppliers and hope they don't try to slip something in through the cracks.
I haven't read about any issues on the PC side with 4850's, other than them running hot, but people have already posted a fan fix for them (like when they came last summer):
There could be a good chance, that these chips just run really hot, and the iMac can't cool them well enough. Most of the PCIe versions have HSFs the size of small leaf blowers.
I haven't read about any issues on the PC side with 4850's, other than them running hot, but people have already posted a fan fix for them (like when they came last summer):
There could be a good chance, that these chips just run really hot, and the iMac can't cool them well enough. Most of the PCIe versions have HSFs the size of small leaf blowers.
The desktop 4850s run hot mainly because ATI equips them with a poor single-slot cooler with a fan tuned toward quietness rather than cooling performance. I haven't heard of any stability issues resulting from this, though, just worried users.
I would expect any car from GM to break down right off the showroom floor, but not a Bentley
Not quite. While I too would not expect a Bentley to break right off the showroom floor, I would expect Bentley to do everything and anything they can to resolve the problem. Bentley's, just like Ferraris, BMW's, Aston Martins, etc. do break down too. Not too often, but they do.
A premium brand is more than just a cool product. It's what you get after you leave the showroom that sets them apart.
I haven't read about any issues on the PC side with 4850's, other than them running hot, but people have already posted a fan fix for them (like when they came last summer):
There could be a good chance, that these chips just run really hot, and the iMac can't cool them well enough. Most of the PCIe versions have HSFs the size of small leaf blowers.
I'm leaning more to a heating issue too. Those iMacs are pretty thin and they have to do some ingenious cooling voodoo to keep the components from overheating. It's the same thing about people complaining about Apple not putting cutting-edge video options in their laptops. While it's possible, people will just complain about why their machines run hot. Can't have it both ways.
This is Apple. But for some reason these days, their quality control isn't exactly in line with their lofty price points for the flawed devices.
I would expect any car from GM to break down right off the showroom floor, but not a Bentley
If Apple's products cost twenty times what other comparable computers cost, I wouldn't either. But they don't. They cost about the same as a comparable machine.
I'm leaning more to a heating issue too. Those iMacs are pretty thin and they have to do some ingenious cooling voodoo to keep the components from overheating. It's the same thing about people complaining about Apple not putting cutting-edge video options in their laptops. While it's possible, people will just complain about why their machines run hot. Can't have it both ways.
I am curious how Apple will resolve the problem.
Again, the heating is unlikely the problem here. At the time my iMac froze, the GPU temperature is relatively low, around 50 to 60 Celsius. The 4850 in iMacs is the mobility variant, not the desktop version. Also, before some people start blaming this on Chinese workers, my iMac is assembled in the US. Based on people's report, customers in north America will get their iMacs which are assembled in the US while others' assembled in China. However, the lockup problem isn't limited to those of us in north America.
There's a huge delay for the iMacs with Ati 4850. It just started shipping two weeks ago, by the way.
I'm holding buying a new iMac until Snow Leopard is out. Maybe new hardware will be available when that happens too.
I do wonder about the issues that have been plaguing Apple. Are quality issues becoming more apparent now that Apple is selling more machines to formerly Window's only users? Are the suppliers that provide the components having QA issues? Is there a problem with heat-management in the iMac design that is propagating the problem?
I wonder what the percentage of users this is affecting. If it is less than 1%, I would surmise that they are just very vocal (but no less insignificant). Or is it a sign of bigger problems down the road?
At the moment, I tend to lean on the supplies (in this case ATI/AMD) perhaps either using more substandard components sliding between Apple's QA radar or the Chinese makers of ATI's components being the usual self and trying to get cheap after-the-fact to raise their bottom line.
However, what really sets Apple aside compared to the other PC makers is that if there is a problem, they will work on it and do their best to not leave the users out in the cold. That is a reason why Apple has one of the highest consumer satisfaction ratings. That's the mark of a good company. Taking care of their customers when something DOES go wrong.
I'm not ready to point the finger at Apple just yet... while they design everything, they (like most companies) are at the whim of the suppliers and hope they don't try to slip something in through the cracks.
Thank God the voice of reason! We are ALL Apple supporters here just stuff like this isn't their fault. They assemble the computers the same way I feel like it's ATI not Apple. iMac are desktops but they are next to MacBook Pros. Hopefully their be a Update or something. I got the 2009 Mac mini with 4GB DDR3 and it works like a champ!
Again, the heating is unlikely the problem here. At the time my iMac froze, the GPU temperature is relatively low, around 50 to 60 Celsius. The 4850 in iMacs is the mobility variant, not the desktop version. Also, before some people start blaming this on Chinese workers, my iMac is assembled in the US. Based on people's report, customers in north America will get their iMacs which are assembled in the US while others' assembled in China. However, the lockup problem isn't limited to those of us in north America.
There's a huge delay for the iMacs with Ati 4850. It just started shipping two weeks ago, by the way.
Hope Apple will respond to this fast.
Things get mighty hot under the hood of the iMacs. I know the iMac uses mobile-version of graphics chips since they would have to in order to address the heat issues. Nonetheless, I would think it will still run hotter than a notebook would.
Your iMac may have been assembled in the U.S., however I will bet money that the components used were predominantly made in China, Malaysia, Taiwan, etc... They have a very good track record of cutting corners behind the scenes only to do damage control when they get caught.
Not quite. While I too would not expect a Bentley to break right off the showroom floor, I would expect Bentley to do everything and anything they can to resolve the problem. Bentley's, just like Ferraris, BMW's, Aston Martins, etc. do break down too. Not too often, but they do.
A premium brand is more than just a cool product. It's what you get after you leave the showroom that sets them apart.
the acuras and lexuses are OK, but brands like bentley's and ferraris break more often than the cheapo cars most of us drive. pretty much every "luxury" brand is owned by one of the mass market manufacturers and is a name to pay for
Thank God the voice of reason! We are ALL Apple supporters here just stuff like this isn't their fault. They assemble the computers the same way I feel like it's ATI not Apple. iMac are desktops but they are next to MacBook Pros. Hopefully their be a Update or something. I got the 2009 Mac mini with 4GB DDR3 and it works like a champ!
I'm not coming from an Apple Fanboy perspective though. This is in general when companies purchase products from other companies and expect them to perform as advertised.
Remember the Nvidia chip defect from last year? That wasn't Apple's fault or any PC maker than bought their video cards. It was a 3rd-party provide (Nvidia) selling a product they very well know may be defective.
Going waayyy back to the early 90's when Intel made the flawed Pentium chip. Again, not the PC-makers fault but a supplier.
What I believe a lot of suppliers do is on the initial batch, they make sure the quality is right up to spec. And then as time goes on, they try to cut corners without telling the buyers thinking if they cut corners and no one notices, they make more money at the buyer's expense, ultimately hurting consumers.
the acuras and lexuses are OK, but brands like bentley's and ferraris break more often than the cheapo cars most of us drive. pretty much every "luxury" brand is owned by one of the mass market manufacturers and is a name to pay for
I totally agree with you. In the case of cars, most hi-end exoticars do require a hell of a lot more maintenance than say your everyday honda accord.
However, the general consensus I believe though is that purchasing a product because of its name (Apple, BMW, Bang&Olufsen, etc.), you get more of a support structure after the fact.
In the case of Apple, I buy one of their computers knowing that I get more support for it after I've had it, not just in hardware but the entire package. I don't even want to address certain complainers about the commodity components being used. Just the entire experience which for me, has value.
Comments
The moral? - never buy an Apple computer model until (at least 6 months?) it has been thoroughly tested by other users.
rzzz
Man, what a fanboy site! Nothing but Apple ball washing and worship here. It's like you're all living in a perfect little wonderland, never reporting on anything negati...
(Oh, wait a sec...)
And you are posting here why exactly?? BTW I only wash my own balls, thank you very much!!
And you are posting here why exactly?? BTW I only wash my own balls, thank you very much!!
I'm pretty much certain he was kidding.
Notice the "(oh, wait a sec..)?
I do wonder about the issues that have been plaguing Apple. Are quality issues becoming more apparent now that Apple is selling more machines to formerly Window's only users? Are the suppliers that provide the components having QA issues? Is there a problem with heat-management in the iMac design that is propagating the problem?
I wonder what the percentage of users this is affecting. If it is less than 1%, I would surmise that they are just very vocal (but no less insignificant). Or is it a sign of bigger problems down the road?
At the moment, I tend to lean on the supplies (in this case ATI/AMD) perhaps either using more substandard components sliding between Apple's QA radar or the Chinese makers of ATI's components being the usual self and trying to get cheap after-the-fact to raise their bottom line.
However, what really sets Apple aside compared to the other PC makers is that if there is a problem, they will work on it and do their best to not leave the users out in the cold. That is a reason why Apple has one of the highest consumer satisfaction ratings. That's the mark of a good company. Taking care of their customers when something DOES go wrong.
I'm not ready to point the finger at Apple just yet... while they design everything, they (like most companies) are at the whim of the suppliers and hope they don't try to slip something in through the cracks.
I'm holding buying a new iMac until Snow Leopard is out. Maybe new hardware will be available when that happens too.
I do wonder about the issues that have been plaguing Apple. Are quality issues becoming more apparent now that Apple is selling more machines to formerly Window's only users? Are the suppliers that provide the components having QA issues? Is there a problem with heat-management in the iMac design that is propagating the problem?
I wonder what the percentage of users this is affecting. If it is less than 1%, I would surmise that they are just very vocal (but no less insignificant). Or is it a sign of bigger problems down the road?
At the moment, I tend to lean on the supplies (in this case ATI/AMD) perhaps either using more substandard components sliding between Apple's QA radar or the Chinese makers of ATI's components being the usual self and trying to get cheap after-the-fact to raise their bottom line.
However, what really sets Apple aside compared to the other PC makers is that if there is a problem, they will work on it and do their best to not leave the users out in the cold. That is a reason why Apple has one of the highest consumer satisfaction ratings. That's the mark of a good company. Taking care of their customers when something DOES go wrong.
I'm not ready to point the finger at Apple just yet... while they design everything, they (like most companies) are at the whim of the suppliers and hope they don't try to slip something in through the cracks.
I haven't read about any issues on the PC side with 4850's, other than them running hot, but people have already posted a fan fix for them (like when they came last summer):
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/25...-heat-problems
There could be a good chance, that these chips just run really hot, and the iMac can't cool them well enough. Most of the PCIe versions have HSFs the size of small leaf blowers.
... This is Apple. But for some reason these days, their quality control isn't exactly in line with their lofty mission statement.
let me fix that for you
This is Apple. But for some reason these days, their quality control isn't exactly in line with their lofty price points for the flawed devices.
I would expect any car from GM to break down right off the showroom floor, but not a Bentley
I haven't read about any issues on the PC side with 4850's, other than them running hot, but people have already posted a fan fix for them (like when they came last summer):
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/25...-heat-problems
There could be a good chance, that these chips just run really hot, and the iMac can't cool them well enough. Most of the PCIe versions have HSFs the size of small leaf blowers.
The desktop 4850s run hot mainly because ATI equips them with a poor single-slot cooler with a fan tuned toward quietness rather than cooling performance. I haven't heard of any stability issues resulting from this, though, just worried users.
let me fix that for you
I would expect any car from GM to break down right off the showroom floor, but not a Bentley
Not quite. While I too would not expect a Bentley to break right off the showroom floor, I would expect Bentley to do everything and anything they can to resolve the problem. Bentley's, just like Ferraris, BMW's, Aston Martins, etc. do break down too. Not too often, but they do.
A premium brand is more than just a cool product. It's what you get after you leave the showroom that sets them apart.
I haven't read about any issues on the PC side with 4850's, other than them running hot, but people have already posted a fan fix for them (like when they came last summer):
There could be a good chance, that these chips just run really hot, and the iMac can't cool them well enough. Most of the PCIe versions have HSFs the size of small leaf blowers.
I'm leaning more to a heating issue too. Those iMacs are pretty thin and they have to do some ingenious cooling voodoo to keep the components from overheating. It's the same thing about people complaining about Apple not putting cutting-edge video options in their laptops. While it's possible, people will just complain about why their machines run hot. Can't have it both ways.
I am curious how Apple will resolve the problem.
let me fix that for you
This is Apple. But for some reason these days, their quality control isn't exactly in line with their lofty price points for the flawed devices.
I would expect any car from GM to break down right off the showroom floor, but not a Bentley
If Apple's products cost twenty times what other comparable computers cost, I wouldn't either. But they don't. They cost about the same as a comparable machine.
I'm pretty much certain he was kidding.
Notice the "(oh, wait a sec..)?
I agree. Some of the statements here just trip me out sometimes (even the sarcastic ones) though.
I'm leaning more to a heating issue too. Those iMacs are pretty thin and they have to do some ingenious cooling voodoo to keep the components from overheating. It's the same thing about people complaining about Apple not putting cutting-edge video options in their laptops. While it's possible, people will just complain about why their machines run hot. Can't have it both ways.
I am curious how Apple will resolve the problem.
Again, the heating is unlikely the problem here. At the time my iMac froze, the GPU temperature is relatively low, around 50 to 60 Celsius. The 4850 in iMacs is the mobility variant, not the desktop version. Also, before some people start blaming this on Chinese workers, my iMac is assembled in the US. Based on people's report, customers in north America will get their iMacs which are assembled in the US while others' assembled in China. However, the lockup problem isn't limited to those of us in north America.
There's a huge delay for the iMacs with Ati 4850. It just started shipping two weeks ago, by the way.
Hope Apple will respond to this fast.
I'm holding buying a new iMac until Snow Leopard is out. Maybe new hardware will be available when that happens too.
I do wonder about the issues that have been plaguing Apple. Are quality issues becoming more apparent now that Apple is selling more machines to formerly Window's only users? Are the suppliers that provide the components having QA issues? Is there a problem with heat-management in the iMac design that is propagating the problem?
I wonder what the percentage of users this is affecting. If it is less than 1%, I would surmise that they are just very vocal (but no less insignificant). Or is it a sign of bigger problems down the road?
At the moment, I tend to lean on the supplies (in this case ATI/AMD) perhaps either using more substandard components sliding between Apple's QA radar or the Chinese makers of ATI's components being the usual self and trying to get cheap after-the-fact to raise their bottom line.
However, what really sets Apple aside compared to the other PC makers is that if there is a problem, they will work on it and do their best to not leave the users out in the cold. That is a reason why Apple has one of the highest consumer satisfaction ratings. That's the mark of a good company. Taking care of their customers when something DOES go wrong.
I'm not ready to point the finger at Apple just yet... while they design everything, they (like most companies) are at the whim of the suppliers and hope they don't try to slip something in through the cracks.
Thank God the voice of reason! We are ALL Apple supporters here just stuff like this isn't their fault. They assemble the computers the same way I feel like it's ATI not Apple. iMac are desktops but they are next to MacBook Pros. Hopefully their be a Update or something. I got the 2009 Mac mini with 4GB DDR3 and it works like a champ!
Buy 2 PCs instead.
Yeah, and use the money saved to buy more of that medicated kool-aid you keep drinking.
Again, the heating is unlikely the problem here. At the time my iMac froze, the GPU temperature is relatively low, around 50 to 60 Celsius. The 4850 in iMacs is the mobility variant, not the desktop version. Also, before some people start blaming this on Chinese workers, my iMac is assembled in the US. Based on people's report, customers in north America will get their iMacs which are assembled in the US while others' assembled in China. However, the lockup problem isn't limited to those of us in north America.
There's a huge delay for the iMacs with Ati 4850. It just started shipping two weeks ago, by the way.
Hope Apple will respond to this fast.
Things get mighty hot under the hood of the iMacs. I know the iMac uses mobile-version of graphics chips since they would have to in order to address the heat issues. Nonetheless, I would think it will still run hotter than a notebook would.
Your iMac may have been assembled in the U.S., however I will bet money that the components used were predominantly made in China, Malaysia, Taiwan, etc... They have a very good track record of cutting corners behind the scenes only to do damage control when they get caught.
Not quite. While I too would not expect a Bentley to break right off the showroom floor, I would expect Bentley to do everything and anything they can to resolve the problem. Bentley's, just like Ferraris, BMW's, Aston Martins, etc. do break down too. Not too often, but they do.
A premium brand is more than just a cool product. It's what you get after you leave the showroom that sets them apart.
the acuras and lexuses are OK, but brands like bentley's and ferraris break more often than the cheapo cars most of us drive. pretty much every "luxury" brand is owned by one of the mass market manufacturers and is a name to pay for
Thank God the voice of reason! We are ALL Apple supporters here just stuff like this isn't their fault. They assemble the computers the same way I feel like it's ATI not Apple. iMac are desktops but they are next to MacBook Pros. Hopefully their be a Update or something. I got the 2009 Mac mini with 4GB DDR3 and it works like a champ!
I'm not coming from an Apple Fanboy perspective though. This is in general when companies purchase products from other companies and expect them to perform as advertised.
Remember the Nvidia chip defect from last year? That wasn't Apple's fault or any PC maker than bought their video cards. It was a 3rd-party provide (Nvidia) selling a product they very well know may be defective.
Going waayyy back to the early 90's when Intel made the flawed Pentium chip. Again, not the PC-makers fault but a supplier.
What I believe a lot of suppliers do is on the initial batch, they make sure the quality is right up to spec. And then as time goes on, they try to cut corners without telling the buyers thinking if they cut corners and no one notices, they make more money at the buyer's expense, ultimately hurting consumers.
So I wait and see how this resolves itself.
the acuras and lexuses are OK, but brands like bentley's and ferraris break more often than the cheapo cars most of us drive. pretty much every "luxury" brand is owned by one of the mass market manufacturers and is a name to pay for
I totally agree with you. In the case of cars, most hi-end exoticars do require a hell of a lot more maintenance than say your everyday honda accord.
However, the general consensus I believe though is that purchasing a product because of its name (Apple, BMW, Bang&Olufsen, etc.), you get more of a support structure after the fact.
In the case of Apple, I buy one of their computers knowing that I get more support for it after I've had it, not just in hardware but the entire package. I don't even want to address certain complainers about the commodity components being used. Just the entire experience which for me, has value.