TomTom iPhone app; iPhone magnetometer; Boot Camp in 10.6

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  • Reply 81 of 126
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    That would be interesting, but what would all that cost?



    Which devices would this be competing against? I see GPS units from below $150 to over $1,200 car receivers with 9" dia screens.



    It would basically be the cost of accessories since you already have the device. There is the cost of making the app for a new platform and the licensing of the 30-pin connector usage, but the benefit is still having one device. And that device will be considerably more powerful from a HW and SW API standpoint. You can get a TomTom for under $100 at Walmart but I wouldn't expect it to be much less than that, yet I think many iPhone owners wouldn't mind. Assuming the next iPod Touch doesn't have a GPS chip, they could also introduce a kit with a GPS chip so that Touches can be GPS units with their already created for iPhone software.
  • Reply 82 of 126
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,508member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    T

    image: http://lh3.ggpht.com/_X3Bf5gCgnb8/Sg.../RealGps.2.jpg



    I got a Google "not found" page.
  • Reply 83 of 126
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Given that there are now quite a few of these people having the devices (iTouch included), I wouldn't be surprised if a large number of people bought one. I'm tempted to buy the current one even though I don't drive, but lack of voice commands has stopped me so far.



    But if the percentage is still small, it wouldn't be a good idea for Apple to include it unless they got it for almost nothing. Don't forget that if even a million people bought the program, that would still be a small percentage.



    If they developed their own program and included that, but required the purchase of maps, maybe, but then they'd be stepping on those third party developers again.



    This is called "market", if I got it right. There are markets for TomTom NAVIGATOR, GO, whatever. There may be that for TomTom iPhone application. This latter may be much narrower, than former ones are, yet all companies manifest clear interest in iPhone developments, no one wants to lose this market...

    PS. And for Apple's turn-by-turn application - as well. Not everyone uses "Stock" application, yet it is there.
  • Reply 84 of 126
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Do you want to try putting up again whatever it was that didn't come up the first time?



    On good occasion - why not? Oops... broken link...

    Nothing much. it was the picture of big ugly flag "Real GPS"...

    Sorry...
  • Reply 85 of 126
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,508member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    This is called "market", if I got it right. There are markets for TomTom NAVIGATOR, GO, whatever. There may be that for TomTom iPhone application. This latter may be much narrower, than former ones are, yet all companies manifest clear interest in iPhone developments, no one wants to lose this market...



    Of course. But do we want to see that market absorbed so much by Apple that other companies might feel as though it didn't pay for them to join in?
  • Reply 86 of 126
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Of course. But do we want to see that market absorbed so much by Apple that other companies might feel as though it didn't pay for them to join in?



    This's simply not possible. There are anti-monopoly laws. And that's the real challenge for Apple to compete with TomTom, Garmin, Clarion, etc who were in business for long and who have content to show. Apple is already late, X-Road took all applaudings.
  • Reply 87 of 126
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    This's simply not possible. There are anti-monopoly laws. And that's the real challenge for Apple to compete with TomTom, Garmin, Clarion, etc who were in business for long and who have content to show. Apple is already late, X-Road took all applaudings.



    There are anti-monopoly laws governing how companies use their monopoly, having a monopoly in an of itself is not illegal.



    I wouldn't say Apple is late. It seems pretty clear that they have no interest in leasing maps and making their own turn-by-turn app.
  • Reply 88 of 126
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,508member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    This's simply not possible. There are anti-monopoly laws. And that's the real challenge for Apple to compete with TomTom, Garmin, Clarion, etc who were in business for long and who have content to show. Apple is already late, X-Road took all applaudings.



    Libertyforall was calling for Apple to include it.



    I don't see how developers could call monopoly if Apple did include it.



    There are numerous manufacturers that offer GPS units for cars, handheld models, boating, flying, etc. There are many GPS programs for Apple already.



    If Apple did offer this as part of the software package for the iPhone/iTouch, Apple would point out the hundred or so models in the market. A market in which Apple would be new, with no guarantee of success.
  • Reply 89 of 126
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    There are anti-monopoly laws governing how companies use their monopoly, not from having a monopoly.



    How competitors gonna read it depends on how much they plan to earn on that market. Surprising enough, everyone wants to develop an application for the platform, having reached 1.5% of phone market so far.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I wouldn't say Apple is late. It seems pretty clear that they have no interest in leasing maps and making their own turn-by-turn app.



    True; they do not show any interest in that at all. Just not their domain of expertise...
  • Reply 90 of 126
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I don't see how developers could call monopoly if Apple did include it.



    There are numerous manufacturers that offer GPS units for cars, handheld models, boating, flying, etc. There are many GPS programs for Apple already.



    If Apple did offer this as part of the software package for the iPhone/iTouch, Apple would point out the hundred or so models in the market. A market in which Apple would be new, with no guarantee of success.



    No, I just speculate about what would happen, if Apple created and agressively promoted their own turn-by-turn application, having reduced competitors' profits.

    Those guys, screwing hackintoshes, they do somewhat like that, no?
  • Reply 91 of 126
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,508member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    No, I just speculate about what would happen, if Apple created and agressively promoted their own turn-by-turn application, having reduced competitors' profits.

    Those guys, screwing hackintoshes, they do somewhat like that, no?



    I suppose they do.



    But there is such a thing a what's called a "homegrown" monopoly. That's also called a "natural" monopoly, because it results from a company's own internal effort. Thats perfectly legal. What they do with it may, or may not be legal.
  • Reply 92 of 126
    lilgto64lilgto64 Posts: 1,147member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brucep View Post


    what kind of 3 g card do you have ??

    and what exactly does it do ??

    thank you



    I have a PCMCIA type II (or whatever they are calling it these days) card that plugs into a slot on my work notebook or my old PowerBook G4 - that is a 3G cellular card - which allows me to have 3G connectivity for my notebook where I can get a 3G signal - I can then use internet connection sharing on the PC (when I can get it to work) or on the Mac to have 3G speed on my iPhone. While this may sound somewhat clunky - it works - and is a good way to keep the phone synced while driving or just before I leave an area where I do not have WiFi access to an area where I will not have 3G or even Edge connectivity.



    I was not implying any type of add on directly to the iPhone itself that would give the original iPhone native access to a 3G signal.
  • Reply 93 of 126
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I suppose they do.



    But there is such a thing a what's called a "homegrown" monopoly. That's also called a "natural" monopoly, because it results from a company's own internal effort. Thats perfectly legal. What they do with it may, or may not be legal.



    Those hackintosh producers question the fact Apple makes the best hardware to run Mac OS, I believe. That fact is absolutely natural in our perception. Yet, those guys don't agree. Neither would GPS makers seeing Apple's application.
  • Reply 94 of 126
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,508member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    Those hackintosh producers question the fact Apple makes the best hardware to run Mac OS, I believe. That fact is absolutely natural in our perception. Yet, those guys don't agree. Neither would GPS makers seeing Apple's application.



    It all depends on price and sales.



    If people buying the iPhone don't buy other GPS programs for it, or the manufacturers determine that they won't, then they won't produce the software. Especially in these economic times, no company wants to spend all that money on development and support if sales won't be at a certain level.



    As for Hackintoshes, it has nothing to do with the quality of Apple's hardware, but with the prices. If Apples' stuff cost 30% less, then we would see far fewer Hachintoshes. But we would always see some, because there will always be those people who do this either for the fun, for the glory, or for some perverted sense of view that they're getting away with something they shouldn't be.
  • Reply 95 of 126
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    It all depends on price and sales.



    Not exactly true with iPhone and Apple App Store. Whoever is capable of, develops an application to either sell it at 3.99, or to offer Lite version for free. It's all new how you're paid with Apple store too. Some additional mysterious momentum develops next to traditional distribution schemes.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    If people buying the iPhone don't buy other GPS programs for it, or the manufacturers determine that they won't, then they won't produce the software. Especially in these economic times, no company wants to spend all that money on development and support if sales won't be at a certain level.



    Mostly because this was enormously costly development until OS 3.0. As you wrote above iPhone penetration isn't yet at the degree sufficient to kill traditional GPS devices. Riding the bike, for instance, you can not use iPhone GPS application.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    As for Hackintoshes, it has nothing to do with the quality of Apple's hardware, but with the prices. If Apples' stuff cost 30% less, then we would see far fewer Hachintoshes. But we would always see some, because there will always be those people who do this either for the fun, for the glory, or for some perverted sense of view that they're getting away with something they shouldn't be.



    People vivisecting their officially owned computers for adventure don't bother Apple that much.
  • Reply 96 of 126
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,508member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    Not exactly true with iPhone and Apple App Store. Whoever is capable of, develops an application to either sell it at 3.99, or to offer Lite version for free. It's all new how you're paid with Apple store too. Some additional mysterious momentum develops next to traditional distribution schemes.



    No one will sell an app like that for $3.99. The maps cost too much.



    Quote:

    Mostly because this was enormously costly development until OS 3.0. As you wrote above iPhone penetration isn't yet at the degree sufficient to kill traditional GPS devices. Riding the bike, for instance, you can not use iPhone GPS application.



    It's the cost of the maps.



    Quote:

    People vivisecting their officially owned computers for adventure don't bother Apple that much.



    Sure, as long as there aren't too many of them.
  • Reply 97 of 126
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    No one will sell an app like that for $3.99. The maps cost too much.



    It isn't finally clear, if Apple would let $150 application in their store. Big, big question...



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    It's the cost of the maps.



    No, no, not exactly. It just isn't clear either how to sell maps at all... And sure they grudge us their maps for little money...
  • Reply 98 of 126
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    s you wrote above iPhone penetration isn't yet at the degree sufficient to kill traditional GPS devices.



    I don't understand this. I think the iPhone sales, the ease of development for the SDK, the 30-pin connector access, and the power of the OS and HW will make the platform very popular with GPS users.



    Especially considering that the lower cost of development to get to market, the ability to sell more maps "as needed" with in-app purchases and the fact that many people may not want or need a separate device for there GPS. I don't think anyone is saying that the iPhone is going to destroy the standalone GPS market, but I can't help but think they will be a major player.



    Quote:

    Riding the bike, for instance, you can not use iPhone GPS application.



    Why not? That seems like a nice fit for many occasional bikers. The App Store has many GPS apps for various parks for hikers. It seems like an easy fit since the maps are generally the same for automobiles.
  • Reply 99 of 126
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    It isn't finally clear, if Apple would let $150 application in their store. Big, big question...



    They allow apps up to $999, as seen by the I'm Rich app. But GPS apps don't need to cost $150. Perhaps some commercial GPS turn-by-turn apps will, but for the most part they will be cheaper than stand alone models while still turning the same or more profit. The won't have to produce the HW or package it and they can get to market fairly quickly and deal with any updates fast and easy. Many won't have to license WinCE, either.



    One disadvantage is the increased competition from having many GPS apps to choose from. This is good for the consumer, but it will require the developer to work hard and they might have to cost profits a little, but if they are selling more for that single environment than they do for each HW type for their standalone GPS then it might be worth it to them. In the end, it's all about making money, so if there is a market it will exist.



    Quote:

    No, no, not exactly. It just isn't clear either how to sell maps at all... And sure they grudge us their maps for little money...



    Could you explain this statement?
  • Reply 100 of 126
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I don't understand this. I think the iPhone sales, the ease of development for the SDK, the 30-pin connector access, and the power of the OS and HW will make the platform very popular with GPS users.



    Especially considering that the lower cost of development to get to market, the ability to sell more maps "as needed" with in-app purchases and the fact that many people may not want or need a separate device for there GPS. I don't think anyone is saying that the iPhone is going to destroy the standalone GPS market, but I can't help but think they will be a major player.



    It possibly would. When GPS workshops would become experts in OS 3.0. You call the absolute necessity of Intel Mac as development tool "lower cost of development"? And expertise in Objective-C as well? No, no, it's wrong.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Why not? That seems like a nice fit for many occasional bikers. The App Store has many GPS apps for various parks for hikers. It seems like an easy fit since the maps are generally the same for automobiles.



    It's not that easy to relaunch another iPhone application when crossing the border IL-MO on a bike.
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