TomTom iPhone app; iPhone magnetometer; Boot Camp in 10.6

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  • Reply 101 of 126
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    It possibly would. When GPS workshops would become experts in OS 3.0. You call the absolute necessity of Intel Mac as development tool "lower cost of development"? And expertise in Objective-C as well? No, no, it's wrong.



    An Intel Mac, even if they got a Mac Pro, is chump change for any R&D for these GPS HW companies already on the market, but you can get an Intel Mac Mini on the cheap. The SDK is free and the iPhone developer license is $100. If they have developers who know C then learning Obj-C isn't a big jump. If they needed to they could outsource some of the work, too. With 40k apps in 9 months, many from people that have never coded for OS X and some who have never coded before, it's clear that the iPhone is about as easy and cost effect as you can get for a development platform.



    It's not that easy to relaunch another iPhone application when crossing the border IL-MO on a bike.[/QUOTE]

    Why would you relaunch another app? Just keep the same one running.
  • Reply 102 of 126
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Perhaps some commercial GPS turn-by-turn apps will, but for the most part they will be cheaper than stand alone models while still turning the same or more profit. The won't have to produce the HW or package it and they can get to market fairly quickly and deal with any updates fast and easy. Many won't have to license WinCE, either.



    One disadvantage is the increased competition from having many GPS apps to choose from. This is good for the consumer, but it will require the developer to work hard and they might have to cost profits a little, but if they are selling more for that single environment than they do for each HW type for their standalone GPS then it might be worth it to them. In the end, it's all about making money, so if there is a market it will exist.



    GPS makers sell 60 MUnits a year. Apple sells 10 MUnits of iPhone. It's not that evident they would be happy selling less and cheaper.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Could you explain this statement?



    I was actually saying,

    1) sure, their maps are expensive and they aren't in any hurry to sell them cheap,

    2) but development cost isn't exactly and solely maps' cost; there're a lot of problems both technical and functional and business.
  • Reply 103 of 126
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    GPS makers sell 60 MUnits a year. Apple sells 10 MUnits of iPhone.



    I'm not sure what you are getting at here. Are you saying that Apple would need to sell more iPhones than all the other GPS devices combined before it would be a viable platform? If so, the number units sold in relation to standalone GPS units is irrelevant. All that matter is if there is a market for GPS SW on smartphones. Since other carriers rent GPS software and there is already evidence of such apps for the iPhone already made or being made it would seem that there is a market for it.



    Quote:

    It's not that evident they would be happy selling less and cheaper.



    They should be if their profits were higher per sale and if it opened up to more potential sales. That is basic economics. They aren't having to engineer and produce the HW which is always subpar anyway, they can save money by not licensing the OS it runs on, and they don't have to include the maps for an entire country in the device. If I only want a $10 version that does a state or metropolis then I'd pay only for that, being able to add other places as needed.



    The potential is just too high to say that GPS apps on the iPhone won't sell.
  • Reply 104 of 126
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    An Intel Mac, even if they got a Mac Pro, is chump change for any R&D for these GPS HW companies already on the market, but you can get an Intel Mac Mini on the cheap. The SDK is free and the iPhone developer license is $100. If they have developers who know C then learning Obj-C isn't a big jump. If they needed to they could outsource some of the work, too. With 40k apps in 9 months, many from people that have never coded for OS X and some who have never coded before, it's clear that the iPhone is about as easy and cost effect as you can get for a development platform.



    This isn't happening that way in companies which have more than 50 developers. You need IT (Office Automation) department as well being capable of supporting Minis. You need to teach them first. Developers in C/C++ are expensive now, they all call themselves developers, being used to scrawl javascript snippets.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Why would you relaunch another app? Just keep the same one running.



    The only (two) application(s) on the market just don't work that way.
  • Reply 105 of 126
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    This isn't happening that way in companies which have more than 50 developers. You need IT (Office Automation) department as well being capable of supporting Minis. You need to teach them first. Developers in C/C++ are expensive now, they all call themselves developers, being used to scrawl javascript snippets.



    If they want to develop for another platform they'll have to do it. Plain and simple.



    Quote:

    The only (two) application(s) on the market just don't work that way.



    Look at where the puck is going, not where it is. Do you really think that those will be the only two apps for the iPhone in 6 months or a year from now?
  • Reply 106 of 126
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I'm not sure what you are getting at here. Are you saying that Apple would need to sell more iPhones than all the other GPS devices combined before it would be a viable platform? If so, the number units sold in relation to standalone GPS units is irrelevant. All that matter is if there is a market for GPS SW on smartphones. Since other carriers rent GPS software and there is already evidence of such apps for the iPhone already made or being made it would seem that there is a market for it.



    I'm just not sure their efforts on slipping into App Store will be paid right out of here. They all seem now just trying to claim they're on this new market, without clear understanding how to make money.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    They should be if their profits were higher per sale and if it opened up to more potential sales. That is basic economics. They aren't having to engineer and produce the HW which is always subpar anyway, they can save money by not licensing the OS it runs on, and they don't have to include the maps for an entire country in the device. If I only want a $10 version that does a state or metropolis then I'd pay only for that, being able to add other places as needed.



    The potential is just too high to say that GPS apps on the iPhone won't sell.



    They are not sales people only. They are engineers and developers. That makes difference.
  • Reply 107 of 126
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    If they want to develop for another platform they'll have to do it. Plain and simple.



    So this development is not by any means low-cost one.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Look at where the puck is going, not where it is. Do you really think that those will be the only two apps for the iPhone in 6 months or a year from now?



    In 6 months - quite so. But then they probably would roll out something more; say, by Jun 2010 WWDC. By then they should have known how to master in-app distribution.
  • Reply 108 of 126
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    I'm just not sure their efforts on slipping into App Store will be paid right out of here. They all seem now just trying to claim they're on this new market, without clear understanding how to make money.



    They charge $50 for the whole US yet I can buy a GPS that does the same thing for under $100 retail using the same maps from Navteq. Yet they have built no HW, have not had to license WinCE or build their app around Linux. They also haven't had to find distributers and retail stores to carry their GPS solution.



    Quote:

    They are not sales people only. They are engineers and developers. That makes difference.



    Yes, they have engineers and developers which is why moving to a platform to increased sales will make sense to them. I really don't understand why you think that GPS should ONLY exist as a standalone option. The iPhone does make for the best eBook reader yet it's one of the most popular eBook readers. popular enough that Amazon has released an app for the iPhone in which to compete against similar apps and against their own HW eBook reader.



    This means that they did exactly what you said that companies won't do. Have an Intel based for development, have developers that can use/learn Obj-C, compete against their own HW solution.
  • Reply 109 of 126
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    So this development is not by any means low-cost one.



    Compared to the alternative, very much so. Same goes for companies like Nintendo and Sony competing with portable gaming on iPhone OS X. OS X is more mature, the HW is considerably more power, the other uses helps to spread the additional cost of Apple's HW compared to these other handhelds.



    The games take less time to come to market as updates can be done, and there is no HW to be made, packaged and shipped. This is such a successful model that Nintendo recently released the DSi, which allows for this very thing.



    Quote:

    In 6 months - quite so. But then they probably would roll out something more; say, by Jun 2010 WWDC. By then they should have known how to master in-app distribution.



    They just announced the in-app purchases and 30-pin connector API this year, for the iPhone OS X 3.0. That was in March and 3.0 isn't due until late June to early July. Give it some time and you'll see a lot of companies using Apple's device as a powerful starting point for their ideas.
  • Reply 110 of 126
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    They charge $50 for the whole US yet I can buy a GPS that does the same thing for under $100 retail using the same maps from Navteq. Yet they have built no HW, have not had to license WinCE or build their app around Linux. They also haven't had to find distributers and retail stores to carry their GPS solution.



    No, no. $100 GPS doesn't need to relaunch separate applications. And you can easily have Canada and Mexico maps with you. It may eventually speak, too. This is why standalone is twice as expensive.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Yes, they have engineers and developers which is why moving to a platform to increased sales will make sense to them. I really don't understand why you think that GPS should ONLY exist as a standalone option. The iPhone does make for the best eBook reader yet it's one of the most popular eBook readers. popular enough that Amazon has released an app for the iPhone in which to compete against similar apps and against their own HW eBook reader.



    This means that they did exactly what you said that companies won't do. Have an Intel based for development, have developers that can use/learn Obj-C, compete against their own HW solution.



    I'm not saying GPS should be only standalone. I do say porting fully-featured GPS turn-by-turn solutions on iPhone platform is tough problem now. There was no real solution seen before March 2009.
  • Reply 111 of 126
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    They just announced the in-app purchases and 30-pin connector API this year, for the iPhone OS X 3.0. That was in March and 3.0 isn't due until late June to early July. Give it some time and you'll see a lot of companies using Apple's device as a powerful starting point for their ideas.



    XRoad? Really? They swore Europe application would be here in April. Their site is suspiciously calm and silent now.
  • Reply 112 of 126
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    No, no. $100 GPS doesn't need to relaunch separate applications. And you can easily have Canada and Mexico maps with you. It may eventually speak, too. This is why standalone is twice as expensive.



    Of course not, why do you think any iPhone GPS app has to be split up? Standalone isn't twice expensive because it speaks. You are talking about some silly things that Xroad's G-Map currently doesn't do, but don't think that is something that Apple is forcing upon iPhone developers. The iPhone HW and OS, as well as SDK is more powerful than anything else on the market.



    Quote:

    I'm not saying GPS should be only standalone. I do say porting fully-featured GPS turn-by-turn solutions on iPhone platform is tough problem now. There was no real solution seen before March 2009.



    Why do you think its tough. What part of the iPhone SDK 3.0 do you think is preventing developers from making a full featured GPS app for the iPhone?
  • Reply 113 of 126
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Solipsism


    They just announced the in-app purchases and 30-pin connector API this year, for the iPhone OS X 3.0. That was in March and 3.0 isn't due until late June to early July. Give it some time and you'll see a lot of companies using Apple's device as a powerful starting point for their ideas.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    XRoad? Really? They swore Europe application would be here in April. Their site is suspiciously calm and silent now.



    What part of my post mentioned XRoad?
  • Reply 114 of 126
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Of course not, why do you think any iPhone GPS app has to be split up?



    It had to be so until very recently. It was almost only possible solution. Ingenious enough I dare say.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Why do you think its tough. What part of the iPhone SDK 3.0 do you think is preventing developers from making a full featured GPS app for the iPhone?



    I've been listing my entire reasoning above since two days now. It's already tomorrow in Europe. I'm not saying SDK's preventing developers from creating GPS solutions. Generally, SDKs do not prevent from developing anything... Khm... Don't remember I ever saw SDK like that...

    Khm... Here you are... Suppose, you've been using on-board map for quite a time. You've moved then. You're done with that map. No more need. How to free the space? GPS application becomes file manager?
  • Reply 115 of 126
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    What part of my post mentioned XRoad?



    No, that was a question. Which GPS maker exactly announced all that?
  • Reply 116 of 126
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    ......
  • Reply 117 of 126
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    It had to be so until very recently. It was almost only possible solution. Ingenious enough I dare say.



    They chose to, I don't think they had to, but regardless you state "until recently." We aren't looking at what happened in the past, we are looking at will happen in the future. GPS apps on the iPhone will be coming.



    Quote:

    How to free the space? GPS application becomes file manager?



    This is currently an issue. I speculated a couple days back that Apple would probably have to use a hierarchal method in the iTunes Applications section for the iDevice to allow you to uninstall the in-app purchase. At very least, since you only have to pay once, you could always DL the basic app and the maps you wanted again for free.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    No, that was a question. Which GPS maker exactly announced all that?



    Apple announced that in-app purchases and the 30-pin connector will be coming to v3.0, back the Special Event in March.
  • Reply 118 of 126
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,508member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    It isn't finally clear, if Apple would let $150 application in their store. Big, big question...



    An app can cost up to$999.



    Quote:

    No, no, not exactly. It just isn't clear either how to sell maps at all... And sure they grudge us their maps for little money...



    Everyone has to license the maps from just a very few companies who do that work. They have to make money from it. It costs a lot to do this, and keep it up to date.
  • Reply 119 of 126
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    This is currently an issue. I speculated a couple days back that Apple would probably have to use a hierarchal method in the iTunes Applications section for the iDevice to allow you to uninstall the in-app purchase. At very least, since you only have to pay once, you could always DL the basic app and the maps you wanted again for free.



    Ah, you see. Small Compact Flash card seem far simpler.
  • Reply 120 of 126
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,508member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    Ah, you see. Small Compact Flash card seem far simpler.



    No, because you still have to uninstall the app. When you remove those flash cards with apps and data on them, the devices get confused, and often require you to put them back. It's not that simple.
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